Barry's 2001 B5 S4 Build Thread

[oasis]

Have you dynoed your car?

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[q20v]

I have not... I might try and do that before the season is over though. I'll give the shop a call soon and see what their availability is like next week since I have a few days off.

[q20v]

Went to the dyno this week with my tuner Ward Performance Tuning. Check out the video for the results and my impressions!

Stage 3 Dyno RESULTS

[S4James]

not terrible for k04s.. what FATS you running?

[q20v]

Lowest I have recorded was about 3.75, and subsequent runs stabilized around 3.8 - 3.9. (IAT would steadily increase).
Thanks for your log with WMI, I’ll definitely install my kit this winter!

[RMode]

What was humidity like?

How much boost again?

Curious to see how you choose to do the wmi

[Tightmopedman9]

Awesome thread. I've read through the whole thing and watched most of your YouTube videos. I'm new to this platform so it's been very helpful to get a good visual on all these things.

Regarding your injectors - I recommend rotating them. You want the injectors to spray directly onto the intake valves, which on the 2.7t are not directly below the injectors. The factory injectors, as well as the 298s, have an angled spray - what Bosch calls the 'gamma' angle. The gamma angle of the 298s very closely match the factory injectors, but the angle is not in the same position relative to the electrical connector. Check out this video of how the spray is clocked relative to the connector: https://youtu.be/bkcmMEEL_ps?t=13

You want to rotate your injectors 90º from how they are installed in this picture:

This should make a good difference to throttle transients. I'm surprised your tuner didn't mention anything about it.

[S4James]

the trouble is the connector does not clear the valve cover in that position.

[Silverex]

the trouble is the connector does not clear the valve cover in that position.

I never ran stock injectors to know but my EV14/550s will. The adapters is what makes em not clear but if you were to hardware the EV14 connectors or run one of my injector harnesses they will clear that way. It’s tight and hard to see but there is clearance between connector and VC






I did not know the spray pattern was like that so from here on out I’ll be putting them that way.
Thanks for the tip Tightmoped!!

[RMode]

This is the biggest issue with the generic “EV14” - you don’t really know what you’re getting. They clearly work, clearly can be tuned for, but they all run the risk of being very different to one another, whether it’s how they were “cut” or what the angle is, and potentially less than ideal which leaves who-knows on the table.


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[q20v]

Awesome thread. I've read through the whole thing and watched most of your YouTube videos. I'm new to this platform so it's been very helpful to get a good visual on all these things.

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated and good to know you found it helpful!

And thanks for the tip on the injectors. I was poking around under the hood yesterday and it looks tight to rotate them. This winter I'm upgrading fuel pump / regulator / adding a flex sensor so that I can run 94 / E85 to get ~E40. My current injectors are at about 65% DC so I "should" have room... but in light of the above I may investigate injector options too.

[RMode]

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated and good to know you found it helpful!

And thanks for the tip on the injectors. I was poking around under the hood yesterday and it looks tight to rotate them. This winter I'm upgrading fuel pump / regulator / adding a flex sensor so that I can run 94 / E85 to get ~E40. My current injectors are at about 65% DC so I "should" have room... but in light of the above I may investigate injector options too.

A sensor as in a gauge to monitor E content? A flex sensor implies running flex fuel, and switching pump to E and all blends in between with the ecu adjusting

You’ll need considerably larger injectors, E makes for a very thirsty car.

[q20v]

This is the sensor (or something equivalent) is what I was looking at:
https://burgertuning.com/products/fl...41178794688686

Plan was to figure out a mix ratio (ie 40% 94, 60% E85) to get E40 (or thereabouts) and have it tuned once for that mix. I'd have to be diligent to get the ratio correct on each subsequent fill.

[LJS]

... but in light of the above I may investigate injector options too.

FWIW-
Check out the Injector Dynamics injectors---YES they're expensive but well worth the money
I run the 1050X PN 1050.60.14.14.6 and needed 10mm spacers on both the fuel rail (OE) and Y-pipe.
They make an injector that requires NO spacer but I lost that part number(found that out AFTER my build)

[RMode]

FWIW-
Check out the Injector Dynamics injectors---YES they're expensive but well worth the money
I run the 1050X PN 1050.60.14.14.6 and needed 10mm spacers on both the fuel rail (OE) and Y-pipe.
They make an injector that requires NO spacer but I lost that part number(found that out AFTER my build)

Second this - I got them in part because of your suggestion, and did the ones that needed no spacer (VR6). They are in my build thread I think.

[q20v]

Awesome guys, thanks for the info!

[LJS]

Here's the injector PN RMode was referring to---48mm units, 1050.48.14.14B
From-
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Journey/page2
entry No. 58

[CELison]

Your tuner for sure has some room to turn it up. I was running 3.0-3.1 FATS on 93 + meth. That was 410awhp on AWE's mustang dyno.

[RMode]

Your tuner for sure has some room to turn it up. I was running 3.0-3.1 FATS on 93 + meth. That was 410awhp on AWE's mustang dyno.

Without a doubt there’s a bunch left on the table given that IDC. A good thing to have. I think I was around 2.9 FATS with just pump gas, nothing else, and 22 ish psi peak.

I’ve still yet to find a pump source for E85 here smh. Just doesn’t seem common.


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[Tightmopedman9]

This is the biggest issue with the generic “EV14” - you don’t really know what you’re getting. They clearly work, clearly can be tuned for, but they all run the risk of being very different to one another, whether it’s how they were “cut” or what the angle is, and potentially less than ideal which leaves who-knows on the table.

What are you talking about? You know exactly what you're getting because they are made by Bosch and you can find an exact specification sheet for the part number you get. I would make the exact opposite argument in that you don't know what you're getting when you get modified injectors.

My current injectors are at about 65% DC so I "should" have room... but in light of the above I may investigate injector options too.

If you're only at 65% IDC now then you'll be fine running E40. E85 requires 30% more fuel, so even with E85 you'd be fine. EV14 injectors are much more robust than earlier injectors and I've found no long term issues running them up to 95% IDC. I don't remember seeing you mention upgrading your FPR, but if you bumped up the base fuel pressure to 4 bar you'd get ~724cc from your injectors and have that much more headroom.

FWIW-
Check out the Injector Dynamics injectors---YES they're expensive but well worth the money
I run the 1050X PN 1050.60.14.14.6 and needed 10mm spacers on both the fuel rail (OE) and Y-pipe.
They make an injector that requires NO spacer but I lost that part number(found that out AFTER my build)

If you want to upgrade injectors DeatschWerks makes injectors just as high of quality for less than half the price. I have a wholesale account with them, so if you do want a set DM me and I can get you a discount.

[RMode]

What are you talking about? You know exactly what you're getting because they are made by Bosch and you can find an exact specification sheet for the part number you get. I would make the exact opposite argument in that you don't know what you're getting when you get modified injectors.



If you're only at 65% IDC now then you'll be fine running E40. E85 requires 30% more fuel, so even with E85 you'd be fine. EV14 injectors are much more robust than earlier injectors and I've found no long term issues running them up to 95% IDC. I don't remember seeing you mention upgrading your FPR, but if you bumped up the base fuel pressure to 4 bar you'd get ~724cc from your injectors and have that much more headroom.



If you want to upgrade injectors DeatschWerks makes injectors just as high of quality for less than half the price. I have a wholesale account with them, so if you do want a set DM me and I can get you a discount.

Except they aren’t really “made by” Bosch at the bigger sizes. Common misconception because they often come in Bosch boxes. I forget the max size they make, but from there most firms modify the base injector to get the displacement they want. But none then have the “correct” spray pattern. This car uses a somewhat unique pattern. They all will
work, but to varying degrees of smoothness. Especially cold start; idle. Some setups/climates/fuel (like E) this becomes more important than others. ID is the only one in the world that have Bosch make them an injector, so then you do know exactly what you’re getting. There are OEM’s now using ID’s. Their price reflects this though. This would stray way off course, but as someone who’s tuned many, many standalones of my own, from cheap to super expensive, for nearly 30 years, DW and ID aren’t in the same ballpark. Ive actually never tuned an ME7, but I’m sure those that do would have their favorites and least favorites. The concepts remain the same. It’s a matter of manipulating the software to run the hardware. I’ve used DW stuff plenty of times of course. For a time, it was almost the only quickly accessible thing. But it’s not the same level of product. Which is why they aren’t sold at the same price point. Tons of documentation out there for anyone ever curious. Some of it gets into minutia though. There was actually a good (but LONG) podcast episode on HP Academy on injectors. They’ve generally got lots of good content that goes superficial for a quick overview and then very detailed, depending on the topic. Good for the nerd stuff.


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[Silverex]

+2 on IDs>DeatschWerks. You definitely get what you pay for and money well spent.

[Krister]

Read the whole thread. Very inspirational and like the attention to detail. Just a question when you powder coated the oil pan, it seemed the inside of the oil pan was also powder coated. Arent you afraid the powder coating coming off and blocking the oil pick up for instance?

[s4rmm]

I think I was around 2.9 FATS with just pump gas, nothing else, and 22 ish psi peak.

This is not possible.
It was 3.97 according to this post.

[RMode]

This is not possible.
It was 3.97 according to this post.

Typo :) the graph is correct

[q20v]

Hey Krister, thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed the read. Just to confirm, the inside was not powder coated, just the outside. You have no idea how much multi-purpose cleaner I went through for this build!

[DonnieDark0]

Hey Barry, I was browsing some videos on PB garage and I don't think I saw the Cactus b5 A4 in any of the videos. Do you guys have any clips or videos of it? I been curious about it.

[q20v]

Hey everyone,

Time for a bit of an update. I'll try to capture some of the changes since last year.

Around June 2023 I made changes to the car to support E40 (I mix about 20-25L of 94 octane and ~15L of E85 or E99, depending on where I get the Ethanol)
- Walbro 450 fuel pump and relay kit
- 722017500 PIERBURG fuel pressure regulator (larger orifice)
- Innovate ECF-1 - Ethanol / Fuel Pressure and Temperature / Lambda Sensor and Gauge
- Updated 3D printed gauge pod for the new gauge

My tuner street tuned the car and I've been driving it without any issues. Definitely feels faster, I think he said he added about 7 degrees of timing, mostly at the higher RPM range.

I returned to the dyno late April this year and unfortunately all the runs had timing pulled by the ECU, intake temps were higher than usual. Best numbers were 397hp / 417 lbft. On the street we don't get the timing pull, so likely an airflow issue with the dyno fans? I'm happy with the cars performance but do still have the AEM WMI kit sitting here, so I may eventually get around to installing that if I decide to return to the dyno, but no rush. Street FATS are mid 3.5s.

I'm at about 10k KM on the rebuild and just enjoy driving the car, usually to work once a week and on weekends. My A/C stopped working so that's the only thing on my plate this year for the car.

Here are some of the components I installed:
IMG_7821

Sensor installed:
IMG_7847

FPR:
IMG_7830

Pump gas 94 octane only:
IMG_8001

E40 (just over):
IMG_8119

Dyno:
IMG_0746

My dyno compared to a 2.7t Stage 2 (upgraded injectors and DVs) same day back to back:
IMG_0741

IMG_0725

The Stage 2 (Braydon from a local shop, Rodgers Performance)
IMG_0737

Couple other little things in the past year...

Badge before:
IMG_0463

After:
IMG_0464

This fitting broke, and I needed to use the car so I quickly fab'ed up a repair:
IMG_7825

IMG_7849

Got some new exhaust mounts that I have yet to install:
IMG_6685

Dyno video:


Diff mount mod:

[Tec_Nine]

Such a great build, and attention to detail. Along with great info, so glad to see there are other people that are still crazy enough to bring these cars back to glory. Awesome job!!!

[oasis]

Hey everyone,

Time for a bit of an update. I'll try to capture some of the changes since last year.

Around June 2023 I made changes to the car to support E40 (I mix about 20-25L of 94 octane and ~15L of E85 or E99, depending on where I get the Ethanol)
- Walbro 450 fuel pump and relay kit
- 722017500 PIERBURG fuel pressure regulator (larger orifice)
- Innovate ECF-1 - Ethanol / Fuel Pressure and Temperature / Lambda Sensor and Gauge
- Updated 3D printed gauge pod for the new gauge

My tuner street tuned the car and I've been driving it without any issues. Definitely feels faster, I think he said he added about 7 degrees of timing, mostly at the higher RPM range.

I returned to the dyno late April this year and unfortunately all the runs had timing pulled by the ECU, intake temps were higher than usual. Best numbers were 397hp / 417 lbft. On the street we don't get the timing pull, so likely an airflow issue with the dyno fans? I'm happy with the cars performance but do still have the AEM WMI kit sitting here, so I may eventually get around to installing that if I decide to return to the dyno, but no rush. Street FATS are mid 3.5s.

I'm at about 10k KM on the rebuild and just enjoy driving the car, usually to work once a week and on weekends. My A/C stopped working so that's the only thing on my plate this year for the car.

Here are some of the components I installed:
IMG_7821

Sensor installed:
IMG_7847

FPR:
IMG_7830

Pump gas 94 octane only:
IMG_8001

E40 (just over):
IMG_8119

Dyno:
IMG_0746

My dyno compared to a 2.7t Stage 2 (upgraded injectors and DVs) same day back to back:
IMG_0741

IMG_0725

The Stage 2 (Braydon from a local shop, Rodgers Performance)
IMG_0737

Couple other little things in the past year...

Badge before:
IMG_0463

After:
IMG_0464

This fitting broke, and I needed to use the car so I quickly fab'ed up a repair:
IMG_7825

IMG_7849

Got some new exhaust mounts that I have yet to install:
IMG_6685

Dyno video:


Diff mount mod:

Any feedback on the fuel pressure regulator?

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[q20v]

Such a great build, and attention to detail. Along with great info, so glad to see there are other people that are still crazy enough to bring these cars back to glory. Awesome job!!!

Thanks! With everything I've done and invested into this car, it drives like new and performs great. Still fairly unassuming out on the street, doesn't attract much attention. If I ever came across some serious money, the 1 thing I'd do is convert the body work to RS4. That's only recently motivated by my brother recently procuring a B7 RS4 Avant. It would be nice to have something truly unique.

[q20v]

Any feedback on the fuel pressure regulator?

Seems to work well, at least my tuner hasn't complained about anything related to fuel supply. Installation was the same as stock, simply remove and replace.

[oasis]

Seems to work well, at least my tuner hasn't complained about anything related to fuel supply. Installation was the same as stock, simply remove and replace.

Were you worried about a restriction causing an overly rich condition with the larger pump?

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[q20v]

Were you worried about a restriction causing an overly rich condition with the larger pump?

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Yes, correct, in my research online I found anecdotal reports of odd issues using the Walbro 450 and stock FPR, but also some with no issues at all. I didn't want to go down the route of an adjustable FPR (GFB is a popular one), thinking it might be overkill (especially $$), so I thought this would be a good compromise.

[mjmatos]

Yes, correct, in my research online I found anecdotal reports of odd issues using the Walbro 450 and stock FPR, but also some with no issues at all. I didn't want to go down the route of an adjustable FPR (GFB is a popular one), thinking it might be overkill (especially $$), so I thought this would be a good compromise.

Interesting discovery, I opted to upgrade my N75 to the pierburg unit, I’ll have to do some research on the new FPR as well as I’ve been wanting to replace for peace of mind


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