Allroad B8.5 - Bilstein B4 (s-line spec) with H&R lowering springs

[Nut]

Hi,

Since there seems to be a lot of negative feedback on the H&R Allroad Specs springs coupled with OEM shocks resulting in a pronounced rake (and that s-line shocks seem to fix it) as per the following thread:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Sport-Springs

I'm about to pull the trigger on this setup:

Bilstein B4 OE replacement (sport suspension)
They seem to be the OE replacement for the avant s-line shocks 8T0 413 031 AF and 8T0 513 035 M
Front (19-171616)
Rear (19-171623)

H&R Sport Springs Allroad Specs (28969-1)

My reasoning with this setup is OEM s-line is 1. hard to come by used and in good condition for me (in Canada) and 2. not cost effective if bought new from dealer. This seem to work for someone (in the referenced thread) and I would like to replace my stock shocks anyway (while we're at it) since they already have 60k miles on them.

UPDATE: I found that H&R allroad spec'd springs can only be used with allroad spec'd front struts. So if anyone is on a quest to find performance struts/shocks for their H&R allroad specs springs, you're pretty much out of luck since they don't make performance struts for the allroad spec. Only OE replacement. Will have to turn to Avant suspension (or coilover, or air). If you must replace the shocks (worn), only OEM or Bilstein B4 allroad spec would work and not introduce any unwanted rake.

Thanks

[darbyfam]

For around the same price of what you are looking at, you should take a look at the ST Coilovers. I purchased a set for my 2015 Allroad and I am very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the shocks and the ride quality.

I have owned all kinds of coilover setups including $10K custom Penskes. For a daily driver, these ST Coils are really impressive. Best price I found was on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

[Nut]

Thanks for your suggestion.

My main grip with coilovers such as the ST or Vogtland is that they mainly rust after 1 year in the northeastern winter rendering them pretty much unadjustable. Whereas with normal shocks and springs, it's less prone to corrosion and corrosion itself is less of an issue. Since you're from LA, I guess this is not really a problem for you.

If I was to consider coilovers, I'd probably go with KW as they seem to be much more corrosion resistant (stainless steel).

[Allroadpdx]

For around the same price of what you are looking at, you should take a look at the ST Coilovers. I purchased a set for my 2015 Allroad and I am very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the shocks and the ride quality.

I have owned all kinds of coilover setups including $10K custom Penskes. For a daily driver, these ST Coils are really impressive. Best price I found was on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

How did you find the right set for your Allroad? Did you check the manufactures website for fitment? Amazon is saying these won’t work on a 2013 Allroad, but B8.5 should be the same fit right?

*EDIT* I just checked ST website and they don’t have information about allroad fitment either

[darbyfam]

How did you find the right set for your Allroad? Did you check the manufactures website for fitment? Amazon is saying these won’t work on a 2013 Allroad, but B8.5 should be the same fit right?

*EDIT* I just checked ST website and they don’t have information about allroad fitment either

I used the Megathread and found multiple other owners who used this kit. I searched for the same item number they used. I also took the sage advice from that thread and purchased the 30mm KW spacers for the rear. The kit works perfectly with the spacers. I will repeat that I am beyond impressed with the ride quality of these coils.

The link above is to the actual coils I purchased. There was no issue what so ever with fitment.

[Allroadpdx]

I used the Megathread and found multiple other owners who used this kit. I searched for the same item number they used. I also took the sage advice from that thread and purchased the 30mm KW spacers for the rear. The kit works perfectly with the spacers. I will repeat that I am beyond impressed with the ride quality of these coils.

The link above is to the actual coils I purchased. There was no issue what so ever with fitment.

You’re awesome, thank you!

[bluefox280]

...purchased the 30mm KW spacers for the rear. The [ST coilovers] kit works perfectly with the spacers.

Where does one source those KW spacer assemblies?

- Erik

[darbyfam]

Where does one source those KW spacer assemblies?

- Erik

ECS has them and you can get them on Amazon. Learn from my mistake - they don't come in pairs, order two.

[sferraro]

Where does one source those KW spacer assemblies?

- Erik

Erik, you planning a change in altitude?

[Das Ponto]

H&R sport springs with oem shocks.

It's been great.

A lot of the issues people had previously were in correct springs from H&R when they were first released.

No reverse rake, actually wish the rears were a hair lower. This was right afyering switching to summer rubber.



And winter mode

[JLAllroad]

Where does one source those KW spacer assemblies?

- Erik

I purchased mine from ECS for use with Vogtlands, I bought the 30mms but could have gotten away with 15mm.


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[Nut]

H&R sport springs with oem shocks.

It's been great.

A lot of the issues people had previously were in correct springs from H&R when they were first released.

No reverse rake, actually wish the rears were a hair lower. This was right afyering switching to summer rubber.

Thanks a lot for your input. It is reassuring to know that the reverse rake issue is due to wrong item being shipped and is now gone. I will pull the trigger for the H&R sport springs and stick with the stock shocks until they give up I guess. At that point I will put in either Bilstein B4s or something else.

Gonna put that money towards Macan calipers since I'm in the midst of doing brakes at the 4 corners.

[Das Ponto]

Thanks a lot for your input. It is reassuring to know that the reverse rake issue is due to wrong item being shipped and is now gone. I will stick with the stock shocks until they give up I guess. At that point I will put in either Bilstein B4s or something else.

You're welcome. I did a lot of research as well and found that exact same thread.

Here's summer mode last year on the Allroad. I had 245/35s and they were too stretched for the drop so I went to 275/30s this year.

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[dubjager]

I have a set of these allroad springs sitting in my garage. About to do the swap over but figure that at 40k miles right now since new, I should probably change the shocks while I'm in there? Thoughts?

I've also thought the s-line shocks would work best. Das Ponto has exactly the drop I'm looking for. How many miles do you have on your shocks right now?

[Das Ponto]

I have a set of these allroad springs sitting in my garage. About to do the swap over but figure that at 40k miles right now since new, I should probably change the shocks while I'm in there? Thoughts?

I've also thought the s-line shocks would work best. Das Ponto has exactly the drop I'm looking for. How many miles do you have on your shocks right now?

Never hurts that's for sure.

Ive got 113k km (70k freedoms) on the oem shocks and struts.

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[Nut]

I have a set of these allroad springs sitting in my garage. About to do the swap over but figure that at 40k miles right now since new, I should probably change the shocks while I'm in there? Thoughts?

I've also thought the s-line shocks would work best. Das Ponto has exactly the drop I'm looking for. How many miles do you have on your shocks right now?

That's exactly my thought: "while we're at it". The shop labor is about the same whether I do shocks or not.

The s-line shocks is exactly my thought too. The Bilstein B4 are said to be OEM replacement for the B8 avant with sports suspension (I guess that's spot on what I want). And I too am looking for the same drop as Das Ponto.

I'm at 95000km with stock shocks.

@Das Ponto How many of those 113000km are with the springs on?

There's also the Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit to consider. It comes to 300$ CAD more than the B4+H&R combo.

[Das Ponto]

That's exactly my thought: "while we're at it". The shop labor is about the same whether I do shocks or not.

The s-line shocks is exactly my thought too. The Bilstein B4 are said to be OEM replacement for the B8 avant with sports suspension (I guess that's spot on what I want). And I too am looking for the same drop as Das Ponto.

I'm at 95000km with stock shocks.

@Das Ponto How many of those 113000km are with the springs on?

There's also the Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit to consider. It comes to 300$ CAD more than the B4+H&R combo.

Almost 20k

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[Nut]

What is your fender to ground measurement? Somewhere around 26-27 inch?

[Das Ponto]

What is your fender to ground measurement? Somewhere around 26-27 inch?

I'll measure them in a bit here and report back.

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[Das Ponto]

What is your fender to ground measurement? Somewhere around 26-27 inch?

Definitely forgot to measure. I'll do it in the am. Here's a few more photos. Side shot and two up front.

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[Nut]

Thanks!

The rear seems to be higher from the side shot. Since a few days, I've been considering the KW HAS kit (it's 825$ vs 420$ for the H&R, so basically double) paired with either the Bilstein B4 or some Koni yellows.

[Das Ponto]

Thanks!

The rear seems to be higher from the side shot. Since a few days, I've been considering the KW HAS kit (it's 825$ vs 420$ for the H&R, so basically double) paired with either the Bilstein B4 or some Koni yellows.

It's a little higher ya. Ideally half an inch or an inch lower would be perfect. But it is nice if I have the car loaded there's no issues and then it looks perfect haha

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[CanAvant]

Perfect timing! I’m just about to take this on :)

So the H&R are now a safe bet, so speak of having to but adjustable cancer linkage... is it necessary at this amount of drop?
And how is the handling? Is it an improvement over stock, or a sacrifice?

Thanks so much, I’ll definitely take photos, measurements etc and add to this thread :)
I’m in Montreal Quebec as well.... btw ;)

[Nut]

Nice to see someone from Montreal too.

I think the drop on H&R is still more in the front than the rear. Would be nice if @Das Ponto can post his numbers :D

At the amount of drop of the H&R, a control arm kit is not really necessary (I guess that's what you meant and auto-correct screwed you up)... It's only needed if you drop lower and you start having bad camber which would kill your tires.

I'm being told to put some Koni yellows instead of the Bilstein B4 for about maybe 100$ more per corner.

But some people been saying that S-Line shocks would fix the rear by dropping it another 1/2inch further. I'm aiming for 27 inch fender to ground. Allroad is sitting at 28.5-28.75 FTG depending on tires.

From what I can gather, a S-Line suspension is around 27-27.5 FTG.

So either Bilstein B4 or Koni Yellow in S-Line specs (both have different part number for S-Line and not) matched with the H&R allroad specs springs would probably get me where I want.

The KW V1 coilover kit is quite tempting right now though (with the mail-in rebate, comes really close to the Koni and H&R setup)... But I think it won't ride as comfortable as the Koni... it's a family car with the wife and 2 kids afterall, won't be tracking it in the foreseeable future... just need suspension job due to wear and tear, but might as well lower it while we're at it (always wanted to get rid of the huge fender gap on the allroad, which is otherwise a fantastic car).

[Das Ponto]

Sorry about the delay! Been a busy few days

Just over 27 Front and just shy of 28 Rear

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[Nut]

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

The H&R springs doesn't lower the back as much as advertised (1.4inch)... I'm on stock suspension at a little less than 28.5 all around.

Decisions...

[bpw986]

I have the H&R springs on my Ar and it sits flat. I do have +1 camber. For every day driving not an issue but it had really bad understeer at the autocross this weekend.
I am going to install adjustable control arms and a rear sway bar. I will try to get my measurements later today.

[Das Ponto]

A bunch of euro guys posted their H&R sport springs (on a regular B8 Avant not Allroad) and they were much lower than I am.

Trying to find out part numbers.

Photos from Europe.

Front then rear

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The plot Thickens. If that was my actual height I'd totally be happy with just springs.

[Allroadpdx]

So I saved a couple hundred bucks and bought the solo-werks S-1. I’m just praying that I don’t regret it, but they were only $600.

[Nut]

A bunch of euro guys posted their H&R sport springs (on a regular B8 Avant not Allroad) and they were much lower than I am.

Trying to find out part numbers.

The plot Thickens. If that was my actual height I'd totally be happy with just springs.

Part number for Avant H&R Sport Springs should be 29061-2. Advertised as 1.2 inch of drop front and back (from Avant height). A member (f_399) posted his FTG numbers for a OEM S-Line suspension setup and it was 27ish all around.

If you factor in the 1.2 in drop from those springs, then you're looking pretty close to what you have pictured. The allroad dampers would probably be a little "out of working specs" as they were designed to work with higher springs. You can replace your dampers with S-Line spec'ed Bilstein B4s I had in OP. And it should get you where you want without coilovers.

But 25.5 FTG is a little too low for me.

Or Bilstein + Eibach B12 kit for Sedan (seems like the Avant kit has the rear sitting higher). Part # for the B12 sedan kit 46-183323. Should get you somewhere around 26-26.5 FTG. You can look here if you want to go lowered avant height.

I might just carry out what I had initially planned in my OP. Will probably end up being in the high 26 front and low 27 rear (I hope, if these FTG numbers are correct. One guy also seems to suggest S-Line spec'd shocks would lower another 1/2 inch)

[Nut]

So to follow up on this thread...

I found a good condition set of S-Line Avant springs from a member, who happens to be local, for a really low price (thanks!). The set was coming from a 2012 S-Line Avant with ADS and the guy swapped the springs for some KW HAS.

Going to order some Bilstein B4 OE replacement in S-Line spec and should give me a pretty even drop to around 27" FTG front and back.

Should have the kit installed by end of the month. Will keep you guys updated.

[Das Ponto]

Part number for Avant H&R Sport Springs should be 29061-2. Advertised as 1.2 inch of drop front and back (from Avant height). A member (f_399) posted his FTG numbers for a OEM S-Line suspension setup and it was 27ish all around.

If you factor in the 1.2 in drop from those springs, then you're looking pretty close to what you have pictured. The allroad dampers would probably be a little "out of working specs" as they were designed to work with higher springs. You can replace your dampers with S-Line spec'ed Bilstein B4s I had in OP. And it should get you where you want without coilovers.

But 25.5 FTG is a little too low for me.

Or Bilstein + Eibach B12 kit for Sedan (seems like the Avant kit has the rear sitting higher). Part # for the B12 sedan kit 46-183323. Should get you somewhere around 26-26.5 FTG. You can look here if you want to go lowered avant height.

I might just carry out what I had initially planned in my OP. Will probably end up being in the high 26 front and low 27 rear (I hope, if these FTG numbers are correct. One guy also seems to suggest S-Line spec'd shocks would lower another 1/2 inch)

I think I might have to do this eventually. That or go get coil overs.



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[Nut]

So... my front spring snapped today. My front-right is sitting at 25" FTG when I got out of work.

And then there's someone who just posted a set of Bilstein PSS10 (48-147231) brand new in box on Facebook...I might just get it and drop it in over the weekend with my mechanic friend.

[Das Ponto]

So... my front spring snapped today. My front-right is sitting at 25" FTG when I got out of work.

And then there's someone who just posted a set of Bilstein PSS10 (48-147231) brand new in box on Facebook...I might just get it and drop it in over the weekend with my mechanic friend.

Shit what?! That sucks man!

That's definitely a rare happening.

I'd pick those up for sure if they are a decent price.

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[Nut]

Is 2000 CAD decent enough?

[Das Ponto]

Is 2000 CAD decent enough?

Pretty decent deal ya. They are 2200 or more usd new.

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[Nut]

Pretty decent deal ya. They are 2200 or more usd new.

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I decided to not pursue the deal as the seller seems a little shady. First, no pic of the actual set, just a pic from the official Bilstein website. Then, no receipt... how does one buy a 3000$ suspension kit and not have a receipt?

Anyways...

Moving on: still on a quest for a suspension setup since mine is blown out.

It is now out of question that I would use a spring set that already has 80 000 km/4y of corrosion in them (it took only 96 000km/4y for mine to snap). I would like to reduce the chance of having this happen again.

I did a little more research on the feasibility of my original plan in OP (H&R allroad specs with Bilstein B4 for the Avant) to realize that it will not work. The only aftermarket shock that would work with the H&R allroad spec is the B4 allroad spec. I've been given the explanation that the front strut of the allroad is spec'd to have its spring perch 3/4in higher than the normal A4 (or avant, or S4). Since the springs are spec'd for the allroad, it takes that into account. Thus, people using A4 front struts end up with a slammed front (26 FTG instead of Das Ponto's 27 FTG) and the back stays at around 28 FTG (like Das Ponto's).

The person in the thread claiming that the Avant shock (rear only) made it drop the additional 1/2 could be right since I believe the rear shock absorber of the allroad should also be spec'd higher/longer. @Das Ponto You could try it if you want to drop you rear a 1/2" further for a more even F/R drop. Bilstein B4 are pretty cheap and the rear is somewhat of an easy job compared to the front. The rear OEM S-Line shock part number is 8T0513035M

My conclusion is: H&R allroad specs can only be used with allroad spec'd front struts. So if anyone is on a quest to find performance struts/shocks for their H&R allroad specs springs, you're pretty much out of luck since they don't make performance struts for the allroad spec. Only OE replacement. Will have to turn to Avant suspension (or coilover, or air).

Now that this is cleared up, I think I will look into a Bilstein B12 kit (or B8 + Eibach springs, same thing but just more expensive, since the B12 kit is like backorder in entire North-America).

[Das Ponto]

Dang! Too bad about the coilovers. Definitely sketchy.

My friend and I were chatting about replacing my back struts like you mentioned. I like more than likely do this. Just after our honeymoon next month lol.

Until then it's dragster rake for me haha.

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[CanAvant]

I've decided to go with the KW Has kit... the adjustability eliminates the rake problem. They'll be installed on the stock struts for now.:)

[chip_]

Yeah I had H&R springs on mine but wasn't low enough for me and like shown the rear didn't match up with the front. I am running ST coils now with 30mm spacer in rear.