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Thread: Motor needed

  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Motor needed

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    Hey everyone,

    Iíve posted a few times on here about a random misfire I was getting on my Stage 3 B5 S4. After going to about eight different shops, one finally gave me a conclusive answer. Unfortunately, my car failed the coolant block test and I have a worn valve guides. I am currently looking for a 2.7 motor (either from an Allroad, A6 or S4) with a reasonable amount of miles. If any of you know of any one parting out their car or of someone selling a 2.7 motor in California (preferably Southern California), please let me know!

    Last resort, if I canít find a reasonably priced motor, I am just thinking about putting a down payment on a B8 S4. So again, if any of you know anyone selling a reasonably priced & well maintained B8 S4, let me know.


    Thanks guys!


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  2. #2
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Make a trip to vegas and get one out of the junkyard out here.
    I grabbed mine from an allroad with 75k on the clock.
    BEL.
    Everything included (turbos, ecu, harness, intake, oil pan, accessories, 30 day warranty)

    $300 out the door after tax.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings christianb5s4's Avatar
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    ^Damn that's a steal. Plus it's a BEL block which is the best non-RS4 2.7 you can get as far as block strength.
    Imola 2001 Stage 3 S4: 314K - 156mph 1/2 mile - Completely Refreshed/Built BEL Motor - SRM K24s w/ Custom Turbosmart wastegates - Ringer Racing 4+ - Etspec - Cinesnow WG/Oil Lines - SRM V3 Intercoolers - AA built trans - 4:1 Diff - JHM Trio - 034 - H&R Coilovers - FCP - Bosch Motorsports - OZ Racing - SRM/SSAC exhaust - Tons of New OEM parts

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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
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    Just grab a set of heads and slap them on. You donít have to pull the motor even. (I would though for space)

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn1989 View Post
    Make a trip to vegas and get one out of the junkyard out here.
    I grabbed mine from an allroad with 75k on the clock.
    BEL.
    Everything included (turbos, ecu, harness, intake, oil pan, accessories, 30 day warranty)

    $300 out the door after tax.

    Oh geez, thatís an insane deal!!! What junkyard was that?


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  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELison View Post
    Just grab a set of heads and slap them on. You donít have to pull the motor even. (I would though for space)
    So the shop said my heads are fine as of now but my coolant has carbon build up in it? They said on any given warmer day, my coolant could shoot though the motor and blow the heads. If that makes sense at all


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    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhlaynuh View Post
    So the shop said my heads are fine as of now but my coolant has carbon build up in it? They said on any given warmer day, my coolant could shoot though the motor and blow the heads. If that makes sense at all


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    It doesn't. Your valve guides are in the heads, not the bottom end. And if you have combustion gases in your coolant, that's from a head issue, unless you cracked a cylinder wall which is very unlikely. Combustion gases in coolant is cracked head/blown HG/ cracked cylinder wall. And I've only seen 1 2.7 that cracked a cylinder wall. It was Reid's 605 built motor car that went 10s. So I don't think that's your issue. Sounds to me like that shop has no fucking idea what they're talking about. Coolant blowing out heads? Only on a hot day? I would stay far away from them.
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
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  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Motor needed

    Quote Originally Posted by CELison View Post
    It doesn't. Your valve guides are in the heads, not the bottom end. And if you have combustion gases in your coolant, that's from a head issue, unless you cracked a cylinder wall which is very unlikely. Combustion gases in coolant is cracked head/blown HG/ cracked cylinder wall. And I've only seen 1 2.7 that cracked a cylinder wall. It was Reid's 605 built motor car that went 10s. So I don't think that's your issue. Sounds to me like that shop has no fucking idea what they're talking about. Coolant blowing out heads? Only on a hot day? I would stay far away from them.

    Hhmmm okay thatís interesting. Iím going to give the shop a call back and see why that wouldnít be an option then.


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    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhlaynuh View Post
    Oh geez, thatís an insane deal!!! What junkyard was that?


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    Nevada pic a part....... henderson or lamb. Same price.

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    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhlaynuh View Post
    Hhmmm okay thatís interesting. Iím going to give the shop a call back and see why that wouldnít be an option then. Iíll let you know what they say. Thank you!


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    tow the car out here..... ill get it squared away with a junky for decent price

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn1989 View Post
    tow the car out here..... ill get it squared away with a junky for decent price
    Well I would really rather try to fix it first.
    They did tell me that the car was overheating though. What would be the symptoms of a cracked cylinder wall? Would the oil look different at all?


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    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
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    You would be pressurizing the coolant and blowing it out of the overflow on the expansion tank. I really really doubt that's your problem. It sounds to me like they saw a girl come in with a fancy sports car and felt they can take advantage of you by telling you you need a motor and feeding you some bullshit. I would find a real shop or a member on here to help you out.
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
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  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELison View Post
    You would be pressurizing the coolant and blowing it out of the overflow on the expansion tank. I really really doubt that's your problem. It sounds to me like they saw a girl come in with a fancy sports car and felt they can take advantage of you by telling you you need a motor and feeding you some bullshit. I would find a real shop or a member on here to help you out.
    On top of that, this is the 7th shop Iíve gone to. All the other shops just kept giving me the runaround on everything and finally a fellow car enthusiast recommended this one. The only thing that sucks is that every time I go to a new shop, they have to redo all the tests again (for their own records), so I end up paying hundreds of dollars for the same tests that Iíve already gotten done 7 other times. But maybe Iíll try again and find another shop or someone else to help. Thank you!

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhlaynuh View Post
    On top of that, this is the 7th shop Iíve gone to. All the other shops just kept giving me the runaround on everything and finally a fellow car enthusiast recommended this one. The only thing that sucks is that every time I go to a new shop, they have to redo all the tests again (for their own records), so I end up paying hundreds of dollars for the same tests that Iíve already gotten done 7 other times. But maybe Iíll try again and find another shop or someone else to help. Thank you!
    You can buy a block test kit for like 25 bucks on amazon. Comp test- you can rent the adapter for free at autozone. Block test is super easy and require no tools. I would do that first. Then you know for sure if you have combustion gases in your coolant. Then go from there. 9.9/10 times you have an issue with the heads/head gaskets. Not an easy fix, but doesn't require a new motor.
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
    B8 S4- GIAC Stage 2
    150cc Chinese Scooter of Doom

  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELison View Post
    You would be pressurizing the coolant and blowing it out of the overflow on the expansion tank. I really really doubt that's your problem. It sounds to me like they saw a girl come in with a fancy sports car and felt they can take advantage of you by telling you you need a motor and feeding you some bullshit. I would find a real shop or a member on here to help you out.
    One more question for you, I did just call another shop and get their opinion as well and they said the same thing. They asked me about my cylinder compression test and I told them that each cylinder tested around 140. They told me that was actually pretty low. Is that actually low for a stage 3 B5 S4?


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  16. #16
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    OP, don't take this the wrong way: but part of the problem here might be playing telephone, not the shop itself. The reality is none of these guys probably have a damn clue what's wrong, though. If they can't say ___ is bad and needs to be replaced, and here's why, they're just guessing and taking your money. Which is not unusual, but you don't start with the most expensive and time consuming item.

    Don't replace the motor for minor misfires. There should be codes, and they should be able to tell you exactly what's wrong with it (or more likely start swapping coils/plugs/sensors as the computer tells them to). You might not understand it, but we will. 140 accross the board is low but within spec.

    1) What did they observe from the tests/codes
    2) what did they do to isolate the problem
    3) why in gods name does that have anything to do with coolant or decent compression checks, and why would that mean a new motor. What evidence have they gathered? Now if they're saying new head gasket vs new motor is comparable, well when you're paying someone else to do it and a new block is cheap, they're not wrong. And maybe that's what they've decided here.

    I mean dirty coolant is a sign that someone put hose water in your radiator and it rusted. Misfires are a sign of an electrical part going out. Combining the two, and many moron mechanics will tell you it's a head gasket, and then return you a broken car and /shrug. My concern here is not so much that they're trying to swindle you, but that maybe they don't know what they're doing. I mean yeah maybe the motors a bit old, but honestly so is that junkyard one. And I wouldn't go scrapping something for another piece of scrap just cause when they tested the coolant gasses there was some cumbustion gasses in there, i'd just swap the head gasket.

    Edit: also best practice is to find a guy you trust that's experienced/smart. They won't be perfect, but going to multiple shops to pay for a diagnosis is a joke. I haven't paid for a diag independent of the service in ages. And the last time I did it was a complete nightmare.
    Last edited by james 408; 03-15-2019 at 02:32 PM.

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james 408 View Post
    OP, don't take this the wrong way: but part of the problem here might be playing telephone, not the shop itself. The reality is none of these guys probably have a damn clue what's wrong, though. If they can't say ___ is bad and needs to be replaced, and here's why, they're just guessing and taking your money. Which is not unusual, but you don't start with the most expensive and time consuming item.

    Don't replace the motor for minor misfires. There should be codes, and they should be able to tell you exactly what's wrong with it (or more likely start swapping coils/plugs/sensors as the computer tells them to). You might not understand it, but we will. 140 accross the board is low but within spec.

    1) What did they observe from the tests/codes
    2) what did they do to isolate the problem
    3) why in gods name does that have anything to do with coolant or decent compression checks, and why would that mean a new motor. What evidence have they gathered? Now if they're saying new head gasket vs new motor is comparable, well when you're paying someone else to do it and a new block is cheap, they're not wrong. And maybe that's what they've decided here.

    I mean dirty coolant is a sign that someone put hose water in your radiator and it rusted. Misfires are a sign of an electrical part going out. Combining the two, and many moron mechanics will tell you it's a head gasket, and then return you a broken car and /shrug.

    So after going to several different shops, this is the only shop that was actually able to give me a definite answer. Or at least they say theyíre giving me a definite answer. Within the last 8 months, Iíve replaced and moved around the spark plugs, coil packs, injectors and installed an ICM delete kit. I also installed new diverter valves at that time. Each shop has told me something different about the misfires, but this shop was actually able to run tests on each cylinder to see what it said. They noticed that even though the codes are showing multiple misfires, that cylinder 4 is the one actually having the issue. They said that multiple cylinders are running rich at high loads and lean at idle. at this point we also replaced the fuel pump to just to see if that would help. We have performed our own as well as paid multiple shops to do different tests and those tests included leak down test, boost leak tests, cylinder compression tests, and most recently the coolant block test. The most recent shop that I was referred to (the one that did the coolant block test), told me that the fluid turned yellow after the cooling fan came on with high coolant pressure. And this is why they said that thereís combustion in my coolant. They also noticed that the vacuum gauge showed worn valve guides as well. They said while the car was running for over an hour they could see and smell coolant burning from the exhaust and thatís what led them to do that the coolant block test.

    This particular shop didnít say anything about my cylinder compression tests being low, but I after I called another shop and gave them my numbers, they said that it seemed low. So those two things were unrelated shop wise. I was just trying to get advice from another shop to see if it really did need to replace the whole motor or not.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    FWIW, it's known with 1.8Ts (later ones, at least) that their heads can develop a crack between a cooling jacket and valve seat(s). When this occurs, the engine is fine when not super warm, but once warm, especially under high boost, combustion gas can force its way into the cooling system and find its way out of the expansion tank relief valve. This will test positive for combustion gases in the cooling system as CELison mentioned. My 1.8T did this, and would start to overheat (air/gas in cooling system = overheat potential). Not sure if it applies to the 2.7T, but the 2.7T is a very similar platform to the 1.8T.

    Where in SoCal?
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    Did they do a smoke/boost leak test? sounds like vacuum/boost just based on the rich/lean profile.

    Diverter valves and ICM replacement is from the 101 how not to maintain your b5 s4 list. Guess and check based on marketing at its finest. Wouldn't have touched the fuel pump either, also a stupid move.

    But if they're saying they tested the coolant resevoir for combustion gasses and it came back positive, then yeah, blown head gasket or leaking wall. That can also explain the misfires. And yeah I see you did a boost leak test, that's good... Not sure I trust it after being pulled apart a bunch, so might redo that once you sort the head gasket (most likely). Machine shops are like 1-2 grand to rebuild the head, mixed results. Gonna be the same deal on a used engine though, and it's probably fine as is once you sort the HG.
    Last edited by james 408; 03-15-2019 at 02:44 PM.

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings Zuhlaynuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    FWIW, it's known with 1.8Ts (later ones, at least) that their heads can develop a crack between a cooling jacket and valve seat(s). When this occurs, the engine is fine when not super warm, but once warm, especially under high boost, combustion gas can force its way into the cooling system and find its way out of the expansion tank relief valve. This will test positive for combustion gases in the cooling system as CELison mentioned. My 1.8T did this, and would start to overheat (air/gas in cooling system = overheat potential). Not sure if it applies to the 2.7T, but the 2.7T is a very similar platform to the 1.8T.

    Where in SoCal?

    Hhmm okay thatís interesting and good to know, thank you! Iím at curious if that applies to the 2.7t. My radiator did crack about 7 months ago or so and then we replaced the radiator and fans. As I donít see it overheating (the needle hardly goes over the middle on the coolant gauge), the shop told me that their computers did notice it overheating a little as it got warmer. And similarly, the misfires only occur while the car is getting warmer and idling.

    Iím based out of North County San Diego. Near Oceanside.


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  21. #21
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    the needle should never go over unless the temp sensor is bad or you're overheating.

    Basic overheating: #1 if coolant gasses in resevoir, HG is your problem (metal and CEL are both saying the same thing that it could be the cycinder walls as well (or even the head where it forms the cylinder walls). But typically start with fans first, then pressure test, and make sure it's circulating as well. But wouldn't even bother diagnosing it if you can reliably find combustion gasses in the coolant resevoir.



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