My C5 RS6 Manual Swap Build!

[jolio1994]

I have a feeling you'll be able to salvage that oil cooler contraption; but if you can't I have a friend who just ended up with a low miles spare 4.2 (from an A8), he's probably parting it out, or selling whole.

Also-- this is coming together at an epic rate..you are NOT F*cking around, totally awesome! The usual 'build' starts with a thread outlining tons of plans and dreams and claims of buyign stuff and where the deals are and just it just stalls. You sir, have not let us down....awesome..

Thanks for the offer! My buddy said he can fix it, so that's the plan as of now, but I will keep this fresh in my mind in the event it's no good.

I appreciate the kind words, luck is on my side right now, but I'm starting college just for the hell of it April 29th, so between work and now that, I have a tight deadline. Probably doesn't help that I keep breaking stuff along the way haha, but I'm confident. I dropped off the oil cooler and 2.7t to him today; will be picking up the modified gutted downpipes (Pre and main Cats) and hopefully a fixed up oil cooler either tomorrow or Monday.

With that, I had the new metal faced Spec throw out bearing sitting in my 20 degree F garage, and upon installation, one of the tabs broke. I could definitely run it, but would rather air on the safe side so I'll be picking up an OEM one from EuropaParts in Central Jersey since it's on the way to his shop (Guess I'll go Monday).

Per SteveKen's Instructions, I have a 3/4 - 10 Tap and Bolt + a washer and spacer I made up to remove the automatic crank plug on the rear of the engine. I first need to get a 21/32" Drill bit, as the I.D. of the plug is probably 5/8" and too small for my tap. So more on that tomorrow hopefully.

I wonder if he has kids!!!

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No kids as of yet, probably why I'm able to do this at the pace I am lmao. But being 24, the wife is begging and begging.... So I'm trying to knock out as much as I can before I'm tied up for the next 18+ years, which is no way would be a "bad" thing. Just makes it harder to wrench and own badass cars... so I've been told *Cough* what my dad said *Cough*


Hopefully tomorrow (later today?) I'll be able to get more of an update and the flywheel, clutch, and PP installed + pictures; and the usual not funny video of my shenanigans on Monday...

[catriple]

The Spec TOB is different than an oem. You need to go back to spec to get a new TOB or run that one. Who cares the tab broke off that’s jut to hold it in place whil you install anyway


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[jolio1994]

The Spec TOB is different than an oem. You need to go back to spec to get a new TOB or run that one. Who cares the tab broke off that’s jut to hold it in place whil you install anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for input, I have contacted SPEC and will be ordering a new one.


Man, this has been a horrible weekend for wrenching.

Friday morning when I got off 3rd shift- Stripped all the bolts for the flywheel as the bolts had to have more torque than a 3ft breaker bar + 5ft cheater bar could produce. Spent 4 hours driving to Home Depot, Lowes, and Harbor Freight to try and make something work. Ended up just cutting the heads off and the studs came out with EZ outs.

Saturday- Got of work and drove 2 hours up North to my friends shop, had to drop off the oil cooler for him to weld. Got home and went to sleep.

Sunday- Was determined to get the Flywheel, Clutch, and PP on. Had to take off the crankshaft spacer to do so; needed a 3/4 - 10 Tap, Bolt, and 21/32" Drill Bit. I had all but the drill bit. Tight. Again, wasted 4 hours driving to Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Ace Hardware, and a few other local hardware stores. Nothing. So I ordered one online that should be here Tuesday. Thought I'd move onto at least installing the throwout bearing and upon installing broke one of the plastic clips that secures it to the clutch fork. Contacted SPEC and will be ordering a new one.

In a nutshell, no progress was made... in fact I actually went backwards. LMAO. I made a video, but its just dull and a long rant of my misfortunes... so I trashed it and will just look forward to next week.

Guess I'll hop on Forza 7 and drive my 6sp swapped RS6 there!

[mr_dave]

I wonder if he has kids!!!

Lol my thoughts exactly. All of my vehicular ambitions have been put on hold for the last few years. Hopefully I'll be getting back into it in the near future.

[chris86vw]

The Spec TOB is different than an oem. You need to go back to spec to get a new TOB or run that one. Who cares the tab broke off that’s jut to hold it in place whil you install anyway

The TOB is the same as OEM, it simply has a spacer pressed onto it. Some other companies accomplish the same thing by putting a ring on the pressure plate to make up for the space difference, I prefer that way for easy of swapping out parts but the spec way works fine.


You can simply pop off the spacer and press it onto another TOB, I've done it before.

[jolio1994]

That crank plug was a PITA. Had to drill out the I.D. to 21/32 and then use a 3/4-10 tap. After that I made a puller the pres against the crank where the bolts go and tightened it until it popped out.

Installed the Flywheel, Clutch, and Pressure Plate with my good boyi. Waiting on a new Throw Out Bearing, as I broke off one of the clips that secures it to the clutch fork; only $83 shipped from SPEC, and it'll be here later this week so no complaints there.

Should have the downpipes and oil cooler back this weekend (Wifes going up to NY with the dog) so the engine and transmission should be back together and then hopefully installed by Monday evening.

20190313_100819 by Joel Francisco

Also took apart the rest of the A6 and had it picked up today.

20190312_112351 by Joel Francisco

[Nollywood]

Very nice documented build!

The only reservation I have, is the use of an adapter plate to mate up the 01E to the 4.2 V8 “Big Block”.

It’s not required. I have done a couple, and I had the block and starter motor aperture machined, drilled and tapped. I also had 3 billet aluminium clamp brackets made, so every hole was used, along with a 3.0 V6 starter motor.

The adapter plate pushes the engine forwards approximately another 16mm. Not terrible, but anything to keep the engine as far back in the chassis as possible, is a bonus in our nose-heavy Audi’s.

[jolio1994]

Very nice documented build!

The only reservation I have, is the use of an adapter plate to mate up the 01E to the 4.2 V8 “Big Block”.

It’s not required. I have done a couple, and I had the block and starter motor aperture machined, drilled and tapped. I also had 3 billet aluminium clamp brackets made, so every hole was used, along with a 3.0 V6 starter motor.

The adapter plate pushes the engine forwards approximately another 16mm. Not terrible, but anything to keep the engine as far back in the chassis as possible, is a bonus in our nose-heavy Audi’s.

Well, to be honest here. I had no intentions to do this swap. I just wanted to replace the coolant pipe inside the oil cooler. The adapter plate seems like the easiest and sure proof way to go. I know I wouldn't dare drill and tap the block (at least with my luck) lol.

[rollerton]

Very nice documented build!

The only reservation I have, is the use of an adapter plate to mate up the 01E to the 4.2 V8 “Big Block”.

It’s not required. I have done a couple, and I had the block and starter motor aperture machined, drilled and tapped. I also had 3 billet aluminium clamp brackets made, so every hole was used, along with a 3.0 V6 starter motor.

The adapter plate pushes the engine forwards approximately another 16mm. Not terrible, but anything to keep the engine as far back in the chassis as possible, is a bonus in our nose-heavy Audi’s.

I was under the impression that you needed the adapter for the Rs6 01E swap? No?
If not..interesting..

[jolio1994]

I was under the impression that you needed the adapter for the Rs6 01E swap? No?
If not..interesting..

Few different ways to get around this.

1. Drill and tap into the RS6 block to accommodate the 01e bellhousing.

2. Swap over everything to a S6 block, then the 01e will match up without any drilling required.

These are the two other options I know of, but then your still stuck dealing with the 10 bolt flywheel and starter issues. (Which might not be bad)

[Nollywood]

I was under the impression that you needed the adapter for the Rs6 01E swap? No?
If not..interesting..

No, it’s not required.

No, it’s not a bolt-on swap. Machining, drilling and tapping are required.

[rollerton]

No, it’s not required.

No, it’s not a bolt-on swap. Machining, drilling and tapping are required.

Ok, gotcha. So..there's a couple alternatives, but the adapter is the easy solution. I was getting the idea that the adapter was somehow just unnecessary all of a sudden.

[Nollywood]

The adapter is an easy solution, but at a financial premium.

Our cars understeer enough as it is. Having that big V8 sitting approximately 15mm further forward is not going to help.

[8520]

The adapter is an easy solution, but at a financial premium.

Our cars understeer enough as it is. Having that big V8 sitting approximately 15mm further forward is not going to help.

That is something I've never considered. Does the spacer requisite modifications to the motor brackets?


I plan to use a hybrid S6/RS6 motor in order to negate the spacer. I can't justify spending thousands, just to bolt up a 6 speed swap.

[Nollywood]

That is something I've never considered. Does the spacer requisite modifications to the motor brackets?

I plan to use a hybrid S6/RS6 motor in order to negate the spacer. I can't justify spending thousands, just to bolt up a 6 speed swap.

The motor brackets have at least 3 hole positions per side, so it’s unlikely they’ll require any modifications to accommodate the new motor position.

Your plan is the best one. I have 3 N/A V8 40V engines, and I’ve just picked up a spare C5 RS6 (BCY) motor.

[chris86vw]

The adapter is an easy solution, but at a financial premium.

Our cars understeer enough as it is. Having that big V8 sitting approximately 15mm further forward is not going to help.

You've stated 2.5mm in the past.


And also that the engine has to move because the driveshaft cannot, which is not true the cv joints can accommodate for some change in length front to back, 2.5mm being easily taken up by them.


15mm would definitely be limited by what the driveshaft could do and require the engine to go forward. The difference in hole spacing middle (where stock is I believe) to front is also not 15mm if I am picturing it correctly. So even if overall length trans output to crank pulley is 15mm more it isn't necessarily making up for all that difference in length by moving forward.



Not a swap I plan on doing anytime soon, just now that you have quoted two specs trying to makes sure if someone comes across this information we have some clarification.

[Nollywood]

Thanks for chiming in, Chris.

2.5mm would be an error on my part, if we’re referring to the adapter.

Seeing as the stock spacer is 11.5mm, an adapter can’t be 9mm thinner, as there won’t be enough meat to support a transmission.

Anything greater than 5mm rearwards will really tighten up the “plunge” in the propshaft. That freeplay is a safety thing - under normal driving, the freeplay reduces, under hard launching, it reduces even more. If the clearance is too tight, the joint will bind. This will stress the transmission.

I had a similar scenario back in my early days, when I installed an 01E in my RS2-spec engine in my 1987 B2 Coupé quattro. The propshaft had very little play, and eventually the shock smashed the output flange of the transmission into the Torsen centre differential. It literally exploded at 130mph, when I dropped into 5th during a tear up with an M5.

It’s entirely up to folk how they up the extra length when using an adapter plate - rearwards, or forwards. I would be inclined to sacrifice handling, and keep the original freeplay in the driveshaft.

[jolio1994]

Well I guess it's been long enough! Finally got my replacement throw out bearing from SPEC. .

Today I went ahead and installed it on the 01e, lubed up the input shaft, tightened down the clutch fork.... anddddd matted up the transmission to the engine. Torqued the bigger bolts to 40 ft-lbs and smaller ones to 30 ft-lbs, should be enough. I'm worried about cracking the adapter plate so for now it should do. Lets see, what else... the oil cooler is back on, I'm running into the same issue I did last time and it feels like the housing is going to crack on the rear bottom (smallest bolt). I can't even get it to click at 15 ft-lbs, it just keeps going. So I'm holding off on fully installing that for now. Just have to bend the oil/coolant lines going into the oil cooler and I should be set to fully install the exhaust manifold back onto the turbo, then it's time to install into the RS.

I know one of the write up's I was reading stated to use the RS6 transmission mounts instead of the B5 S4/C5 A6 ones, included a picture of that as well to show the minimal, but noticeable difference between the two.

More tomorrow...

20190323_195833 by Joel Francisco
20190323_220626 by Joel Francisco
20190323_220637 by Joel Francisco

RS6 on left, S4/A6 on right
20190323_210827 by Joel Francisco
20190323_210821 by Joel Francisco

[Nollywood]

With the amount of work that’s gone into this build, would you really skimp on decent mounts?

You’re running a high output motor through a manual gearbox, so instant bite. I would run solid / semi-solid transmission mounts, not the stock ones. Unless you want to be replacing them soon.

Are you running stock engine mounts? I can’t remember reading much about them in your build.

[jolio1994]

Over the Summer and Fall I'll be picking up a spare 01e and rebuilding it to throw in next Winter. Not expecting to go over 5000 miles until then, so these should do for the meantime

Engine mounts are 034 street density.

[Nollywood]

Over the Summer and Fall I'll be picking up a spare 01e and rebuilding it to throw in next Winter. Not expecting to go over 5000 miles until then, so these should do for the meantime

Engine mounts are 034 street density.

Not tough enough for launches. I would go with Aluminium Motorsport mounts, from either Stern, 034 or Vibra-Technics. Honestly, you’ll thank me later.

[jolio1994]

I'm not going to be launching it. This next year will be a break in period more of less.

I mounted the pedal box and ran the master to slave cylinder line as well. All that leaves me with is the wiring. Should be installing the engine/trans this Friday.

I managed to lose the clip for the slave cylinder... anybody got an extra?

[jolio1994]

Sweet, found the clip as I was cleaning up the garage. Put it onto the slave so I wouldn't lose it this time lmao.
I found a few wires on the harness that were split open so I'll be repairing those throughout the week when I find time.

All that's left to do aside from that is roll the car into the garage Friday morning, jack er' up, and toss it back into the RS6. Super excited here, out of curiosity, assuming everything is properly wired, will the car start and idle with the auto tune on it?

Hopefully the final update before next weekends install.


20190325_160148 by Joel Francisco

[rollerton]

[QUOTE=jolio1994;13593266]

All that's left to do aside from that is roll the car into the garage Friday morning, jack er' up, and toss it back into the RS6. Super excited here, out of curiosity, assuming everything is properly wired, will the car start and idle with the auto tune on it?

HQUOTE]

From my experience (with almost anything except an Rs6..) yes. It's start, run and drive with the auto programming on the ECU. It'll drive sort of strange, RPM's can hang a little between shifts and cruise wont work, and you'll get a list of errors for all sorts of mismatched unhappiness. But it should run.

[jolio1994]

Awesome. That makes me happy to hear I can at least get it running without having to wait for my tuner.

Found an oil leak on the driverside turbo oil drain back into the oil pan so I have new seals coming. Dont know if they'll get here before the weekend, but I lf they get here before Sunday, the engine will makes it's way into the car.

While at work last night I dremel'd out the stock auto shifter surround. It needed to widen up 1/2" on both sides. Clipped in the shift boot and all is well. Threw a layer of ceramic coat since these tend to take abuse and installed in the car to see how it looks.

I'm in love.

20190327_024605 by Joel Francisco
20190327_180958 by Joel Francisco

[Mad Cow]

What kind of bit did you use in your Dremel? I started doing the same with a router bit and then gave up because it was taking too damn long.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[jolio1994]

I used a triangular diamond bit (looks like a step bit).
Actually only used that to smooth out the edges. Did the majority of the cutting with a 3" Pneumatic Cutting wheel. Cut a bunch or notches into it and then went along and sliced them all off.

[JorisRS6]

Youre making everything look and sound easy lol. Maybe ill do the swap too someday


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[jolio1994]

Well I wish it has been as easy as I make it seem Haha. I'll have everything documented for you!

[Korben007]

cutting the carbon fiber is very delicate it chips easily I had a lot of trouble when I did mine definitely need to do a new one!

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[jolio1994]

When grinding it, I recommend doing so with the carbon fiber on top, metal facing down. If you cut it from the bottom up you risk splintering it or as you said chipping it.

[SteveKen]

Thanks for chiming in, Chris.

2.5mm would be an error on my part, if we’re referring to the adapter.

Seeing as the stock spacer is 11.5mm, an adapter can’t be 9mm thinner, as there won’t be enough meat to support a transmission.

Anything greater than 5mm rearwards will really tighten up the “plunge” in the propshaft. That freeplay is a safety thing - under normal driving, the freeplay reduces, under hard launching, it reduces even more. If the clearance is too tight, the joint will bind. This will stress the transmission.

I had a similar scenario back in my early days, when I installed an 01E in my RS2-spec engine in my 1987 B2 Coupé quattro. The propshaft had very little play, and eventually the shock smashed the output flange of the transmission into the Torsen centre differential. It literally exploded at 130mph, when I dropped into 5th during a tear up with an M5.

It’s entirely up to folk how they up the extra length when using an adapter plate - rearwards, or forwards. I would be inclined to sacrifice handling, and keep the original freeplay in the driveshaft.

Were you thinking that the 2.7T spacer and my adapter were both used? Surely not. The adapter is CNC'd from 1/2 in. sheet stock. So it's about 2.2mm thicker than the 2.7T spacer, as every spacer I've mic'd has been 10.5mm. The fylwheels are custom fit for the adapter and are thicker than they normally would be to make up for the extra thickness of the adapter.

Without an adapter, how do you support the mating of the lower portions of engine and transmission? Below is a picture of the 2.7T spacer (exact to the 01E) overlayed on the BCY? Are you leaving 5 o'clock to 9 o'clock unmated?

[SteveKen]

The project is going good so far so keep up the good work.

A little motivation:



And for all those wanting to convert their S6's here's some motivation, too:

[Nollywood]

Were you thinking that the 2.7T spacer and my adapter were both used? Surely not. The adapter is CNC'd from 1/2 in. sheet stock. So it's about 2.2mm thicker than the 2.7T spacer, as every spacer I've mic'd has been 10.5mm. The fylwheels are custom fit for the adapter and are thicker than they normally would be to make up for the extra thickness of the adapter.

Without an adapter, how do you support the mating of the lower portions of engine and transmission? Below is a picture of the 2.7T spacer (exact to the 01E) overlayed on the BCY? Are you leaving 5 o'clock to 9 o'clock unmated?

Ken, I’m very much aware the 2.7T spacer is not used, I never suggested it was.

I machine, drill and tap the block, and have a couple of solid billet aluminium brackets made. Every hole is used.

[SteveKen]

Ken, I’m very much aware the 2.7T spacer is not used, I never suggested it was.

The where did you come up with this? vvvvv

The adapter plate pushes the engine forwards approximately another 16mm. Not terrible, but anything to keep the engine as far back in the chassis as possible, is a bonus in our nose-heavy Audi’s.

I'll try to put this nicely. Don't post inaccurate information.

[Nollywood]

The where did you come up with this? vvvvv

I'll try to put this nicely. Don't post inaccurate information.

1) From practical experience, Steven. I’ve been shoving the 077-series V8 into smaller chassis Audi models since 2008. My actual first practical experience was in 1998, when I installed an ABH into a less-related model, a 1987 Audi 90 quattro B2.

2) You can put it any way you like, Steven. This is all about sharing experiences. I can’t see why you’re getting so irate.

[SteveKen]

1) From practical experience, Steven. I’ve been shoving the 077-series V8 into smaller chassis Audi models since 2008. My actual first practical experience was in 1998, when I installed an ABH into a less-related model, a 1987 Audi 90 quattro B2.

2) You can put it any way you like, Steven. This is all about sharing experiences. I can’t see why you’re getting so irate.

2008 was around the time I was having the BCY and the 01E laser scanned for this adapter.

What practical experience do you have that gives you experience to say that the adapter pushes the engine forward 16mm?

Call it irate if you want, buy you deserve to be called out on it (by the person that knows every single detail about this.)

A line needs to be drawn between fact and opinion or fiction or factually incorrect information or fake news or whatever. Not just in this thread, but in general.

That simple statement you made, quite frankly, reflects on my reputation. It could have also turned off someone from buying an RS6 with a bad transmission, or someone wanting to do the conversion to just have the slushbox rebuilt instead. Overall, it does a dis-service to the community.

I've been around a long time and if you search me and my username, you'll see that I've also got a lot of practical experience, too.

And all these years, I've never made statements without having the facts straight first or claimed to be an expert on anything.

It's not cool. Hopefully next time you will not be so quick to make statements unless you have first hand experience with the matter at hand.

Sorry for jacking your thread Joel.

[Nollywood]

In life, Steven, we will come across people who’s opinions differ from ours.

I too have been around for a long time, from the Ur quattro era. I have vast experience with the V8 motor. However, that doesn’t mean I’m always right, or can’t learn something new from a new kid on the block. This is where yourself and myself differ. My comments about engine position were based upon my experiences. They were in no way aimed at yourself. You just chose to make it about you.

I have great respect for anyone who develops anything for an ageing platform, and that includes yourself. I know you attempted to mate the C5 RS6 block to an 01E, without using your adapter plate. You ground the BCY block, chopped up starter motors, and drilled into the block, going into an oilway, which ultimately ruined a decent C5 RS6 motor.

I used a slightly different approach. You can’t use your efforts and achievements as a benchmark to judge the abilities of others. That you did not succeed in this method does not mean others won’t. In the same way, I might have tried to develop the adapter plate that you did, and failed where you succeeded.

We all excel in different fields, which is not a bad thing, because our combined efforts are what keep things moving in the right direction.

[jolio1994]

My thread emoji on the list of threads is on fire.

So here's what's up. I usually only work 06:00-2:30 on Saturdays, but yesterday I had to stay and didn't leave until 11:00 PM. So, aside from rolling the car into the garage Saturday night, nothing happened.

2019-03-31_11-35-45 by Joel Francisco
20190330_233243 by Joel Francisco

Started to tear into her this morning; jacked the front up, and went to install.

2019-04-01_12-01-09 by Joel Francisco

My recommendation, as this has always worked beautiful for me and today was no different...

-Install the entire shifter assembly outside of the vehicle, that way once installed, you don't have to fiddle around too much in the car and feeding the rods through to rubber boot as well as bolting them to the shifter. I was able to quickly make a tiny adjustment to both shifter and stabilizer, and then bolt it right up the the car.
-Keep the transmission and engine mounts slightly loose, just enough to turn them and wiggle them into place, then when in the car, tighten all the way.
-Bolt the transmission down first, that way you'll know there the engine mounts are going to sit. Mine ended up not moving and are in the center holes.
-Bentley says to loosen the rear part of the front subrame and place 2x4 blocks to create more clearance, I highly suggest this; also loosen up the front 3 bolts that the engine mounts bolt onto. It makes installing the engine mounts easier as well as lowers the entire front subframe more than enough to get the engine and transmission in there.
-While installing the engine/trans, get the trans to clear the subframe first, THEN install the downpipes. They sit about 6 inches lower than the transmission so it's just easier to do and not have to worry about downpipes clearance (IMO)

Now, Steve... I don't think you need to worry about a "tarnished reputation" bud. This kit is awesome. The average DIY'r isn't going to take the block out have it machined or swap all the parts over to a S6 block.
A- That's a lot of money to invest.
B- I said average. I don't have the resources, and time.

And this is my review if you will for other's out there wanting to go manual. Whether it be you're just tired of the auto trans or have a failing auto trans, this kit will get you up and going in no time, no hassle. I had a few question prior to purchasing because hey, there really isn't anybody out there that's documented it save a few. He answered all my question I had, I paid the man and 10 days later I got everything. The kit came with very clear installation instructions, and went on no issues with all the supplied hardware.
There was talk that it moves the engine up about an inch or so, and therefore, needs to use the the front most mounting holes for the engine mounts. I didn't find that the case and everything fell right into place in the stock location. My only concern throughout this entire thing swap wise would have to be the tq specs for the bellhousing adapter bolts. Some clarification on that would be helpful. I torqued the 16mm bolts to 40ft-lbs and the smaller ones to 30 ft-lbs, main concern being cracking the adapter plate. But with that being said, I believe all is well. everything's tight so time will tell. 100% happy as hell with how everything came out, and if I run into any issues, I will be the first to say (Including right now for the record) that it has to be an user error on my end. The kit fits perfectly, and I can't thank you enough for dedicating your time into making this a feasible option for the rest of us.

20190331_152202 by Joel Francisco
20190331_152144 by Joel Francisco


She's in there! Joel's Happy...
20190331_225937 by Joel Francisco
20190331_225848 by Joel Francisco

I only wish this wasn't at the bottom of the page, but hey, saves me the top of page 3 for the first start

[8520]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. They will really help when I go to pull the engine from mine tomorrow.

Until this thread I always thought the subframe had to be dropped. I don’t have a lift so dropping the subframe with a cherry picker is a hassle.