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  1. #1
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    2006 A4 Fix it or Not

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    Alright folks, been awhile since I've been on here because the A4 ran from 100k to 190k without a single problem. Now I need some help making a decision.

    The daily driver is a 2006 A4 B7 Quattro S-Line, manual, 190k miles

    Last week I started getting P0010 code and a very rough idle. I ran through the diagnostics, checked fuses and relays, and replaced the N205 Valve with no improvement. It's cold here in Illinois and decided I had reached the end of what I was willing to do in my garage.

    The mechanic basically spent $1600 to replace the intake manifold (leaking), oil separator (leaking), and also the fuel pump "lifter" and then tells me now that both the front and rear crank cover seals are leaking oil. I've never added any oil to it, but whatever. He says it has an air leak through both seals. Now he wants another $2600 to pull the transmission, might as well do the clutch, and also pull the front end and replace the front cover gasket.

    I think the car is worth about $3,000. I also owe about $2,400 on it still. Any feedback is welcome. Should I have it fixed? Attempt it myself? Part it out? Repair costs seem reasonable? Thanks

  2. #2
    Account Terminated Two Rings
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    sounds like your getting ripped. u paid 600 bucks and drove for 80k thats pretty good. doubt anyone wants to buy that mess. maybe trade it in but who knows what they will give you for it and how much you can get financed. gl

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings oVeRdOsE's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jay-Bee's Avatar
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    OP buy some tools and tackle this stuff yourself, it's all relatively easy weekend projects.

    Your "mechanic" is taking you for a spin.
    2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T
    2004 VW Golf TDI Stage 1.5 Tune [EGR delete/smart delete/adaptive idle]

  5. #5
    Active Member One Ring
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    From the research I've done in a few hours it sounds like this would require removing the whole front end and all the timing components to get the crank pulley off. Then transmission off in the back plus oil pan to get the rear main seal off. Need a special tool for that too.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jay-Bee's Avatar
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    Are your crank seals puking out oil? Is it critical this work be done ASAP?
    2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T
    2004 VW Golf TDI Stage 1.5 Tune [EGR delete/smart delete/adaptive idle]

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    ^^ Likely not critical. You can stick a borescope in the transmission and you might be able to see if there is a leak from the rear main seal. The front crank seal does indeed require removal of the crank gear so the timing belt needs to come off, but thats not the worst thing ever. Mut I've heard this "air leak from the crank seal" thing a few times now and I'm not really sure if its a legitimate thing or not. Maybe someone who is familiar with this stuff and works on cars can debunk or verify the validity of that. Also wtf is he talking abotu the front cover gasket? Never heard of such a thing on our cars.

    Regardless, none of those things are critical at all to me. If you're losing enough oil to leave drips on the ground that is more of a concern. The only issue with the rear main seal is that oil leaks can foul the clutch, but 1) you'll notice it getting slippy long before it dies, and 2) its not really the end of the world and isn't worth addressing until your clutch needs replacement.

    I'd thank the mechanic for their work so far and roll the dice on these "leaky" seals as I really don't think they're that important to address at this moment.
    -CP
    2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (2.0t S-Line Ti 6MT Avant) - R8 V10 Coils and Spark Plugs - AMI retrofit - Mk2 RNS-E
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  8. #8
    Active Member One Ring
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    Thanks for the input. I originally thought that there was a cover under the timing pulleys that had a gasket on it. Now I see that it's just behind the crank pulley. It wasn't losing much oil until he had it, but he did replace the oil separator and the intake manifold. I'm not sure how he diagnosed that it was both seals but the codes are for intake leaks and I think it's still not idling well. He made it sound like oil was leaking out fast, but I'm going in there tomorrow to see.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings aluthman's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me... completely unnecessary to replace the intake manifold when a new gasket would have sufficed. Find a new mechanic.
    -Adam

    '07 DTM A4 2.0T|6MT|EFR 7163 Twin Scroll|DoTuning|Built Motor|Meth and other go fast stuffÖ
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings vce1232000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aluthman View Post
    Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me... completely unnecessary to replace the intake manifold when a new gasket would have sufficed. Find a new mechanic.
    To he aint closer to you. Easy $$$$ rite there for yaa
    APR KO4, APR HPFP,RS4 LPFP Cntr,145 bar PRV, APR TP, TT DP, GFB DV+, AWE FMIC, BFI CC, AWE Exhaust, RS4 Exh tips, ST CO, 034 RSB,034 St Dnsty Mtr Mts, New Sth West Bst guage, B7 RS4 8 pot Calipers.Stop Tech slotted rotors.Goodridge SS brake lines frt & rr. Hawk HPS frt & rr. RS4 PS rack, RS4 Servotronic Relay,RS4 rims. S4 mirror caps,DTM frt bmpr and rs4 fogs,LED tail lites
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    So by oil separator do you mean PCV if so may be they put the wrong one in there is an early and late model version this can cause issues.

  12. #12
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    He replaced the intake manifold because it was warped. Diagnosed that leak with ether. I think it did have minor boost leaks for a long time, it's never really had the turbo feeling when driving it. He described the oil separator as the housing that you screw the filter into.

  13. #13
    Established Member Four Rings
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    Excess crankcase pressure can absolutely blow out a rear main seal so I wouldnít jump to the conclusion that the guy is wrong or trying to rip you off.

    But, if HVCCeducator thinks you might be getting ripped off, maybe you should believe him. It takes a con man to know a con man. He would be able to tell a rip off artist a mile away. He looks at one in the mirror every day.
    2005.5 A4 Avant: JHM K04R, GIAC K04 tune, RS4 PRV, RS4 fuel pump controller, Treadstone TR6 intercooler core with JHM pipe kit, CTS Turbo test pipe, ECS Tuning snub mount, 034 street tranny mount, 034 street motor mounts, ECS Tuning turbo inlet pipe, ECS Tuning RA4 clutch conversion, Billy Boat Stealth cat back, Fluidampr

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4_PimP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjac0bmichaelX View Post
    He replaced the intake manifold because it was warped. Diagnosed that leak with ether. I think it did have minor boost leaks for a long time, it's never really had the turbo feeling when driving it. He described the oil separator as the housing that you screw the filter into.
    The housing you screw the oil filter into? I'm certainly not as good as some of the guys on here but if this mechanic is not able to call the parts by the correct name that is a flag. I'm not saying that is the case I'm just saying dig more or take it somewhere else. It's good to get a second opinion but make sure you take it somewhere good.

  15. #15
    Established Member Four Rings
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    The oil separator is the PCV valve. There is a PCV hose that comes out of the oil filter housing so technically, the oil filter housing could be considered part of the PCV system.

    OP, are you sure itís not you mixing up what he is saying?
    2005.5 A4 Avant: JHM K04R, GIAC K04 tune, RS4 PRV, RS4 fuel pump controller, Treadstone TR6 intercooler core with JHM pipe kit, CTS Turbo test pipe, ECS Tuning snub mount, 034 street tranny mount, 034 street motor mounts, ECS Tuning turbo inlet pipe, ECS Tuning RA4 clutch conversion, Billy Boat Stealth cat back, Fluidampr

  16. #16
    Active Member One Ring
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    Ok I just got back from the mechanic and took pictures. I'm tending to think he isn't screwing me over now. He has about 10 years experience at the Audi/VW dealer and now works on his own. He doesn't have any official Audi diagnostic hardware. The whole situation is insane. The engine had so many
    small leaks! He keeps plugging one and it makes another one worse. It's like a frickin cartoon boat sinking! EvolutionArmory is right; it was the PCV valve and the oil filter housing. The housing was leaking oil from both sides. Various vacuum check valves had failed. The intake manifold was warped and leaking from the seam shown in the pictures. He opened up the valve cover and found that gasket shot, replaced all the coils and even the HPFP Lifter (pics attached). Valve-train looks good but it did get new cams at 100k. Engine is still missing but the P0010 code is gone. Still has an intake leak code.

    My theory is that fixing the intake leaks on the manifold increased crank case pressure so much that it started pushing oil out the crank seals. He showed me that the front one is worse so I had him go ahead and replace that one. He says that it's more likely that air is leaking into the rear crank seal because it's larger.

    IMG_20190124_111551.jpgIMG_20190124_111556.jpgIMG_20190124_111626.jpgIMG_20190124_111854.jpgIMG_20190124_112050.jpg

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings A U D I's Avatar
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    My opinion:
    $1,600 to still have the same problem you started with and this person wants $2600 more tells me you need to go elsewhere. You could have gone to the dealership and had them tell you why you had the check code for less then $200. I do feel like you are being taken a bit here and need a better person working on your car before you are out more money. You have a 2006 2.0T with 1 check code, nothing crazy that should cost you so much and still have the same code.

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings bigheadb7's Avatar
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    90k without issues thatís pretty impressive, i bought the car with 95k and i had to deal with so much regular maintenance that now I kinda hate the car, but it is what it is.


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  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings
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    You've spent so much already. Buy vcds or even ECStuning Schwabben scan tool. That mechanic should have that at least. Will allow you to run logs and let people here know soft codes. I have the Schwabben you can add other makes for $60 I also have Ford, Mopar, and GM to go with VAG.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings dalmation53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE View Post
    🤣images.jpeg

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    Ivan

  21. #21
    Established Member Four Rings
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    If you had a severe PCV failure, the car will try to push that excess crankcase build up out of EVERY possible weakness from the oil cap down to the oil filter housing to the rear main. Every seal will be pushed to its limit and thereís quite a few of them. When the OEM PCV system is working itís actually pretty excellent. When it fails it can fail hard. Lol!! Especially if you donít catch it and keep driving. I noticed a little oil on my valve cover bolts last year and immediately bought a new valve and valve cover gasket but Iím in my engine bay what seems like every week so I catch shit like that early. Next month I get a new oil filter housing. Yay!! 😀

    It seems this mechanic is just doing his due diligence. This shit isnít cheap to fix and itís not his fault the car needs all that stuff
    2005.5 A4 Avant: JHM K04R, GIAC K04 tune, RS4 PRV, RS4 fuel pump controller, Treadstone TR6 intercooler core with JHM pipe kit, CTS Turbo test pipe, ECS Tuning snub mount, 034 street tranny mount, 034 street motor mounts, ECS Tuning turbo inlet pipe, ECS Tuning RA4 clutch conversion, Billy Boat Stealth cat back, Fluidampr

  22. #22
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigheadb7 View Post
    90k without issues thatís pretty impressive, i bought the car with 95k and i had to deal with so much regular maintenance that now I kinda hate the car, but it is what it is.

    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

    I still had to do maintenance, just no major failures. I did replace the turbo diverter valve a while back.

  23. #23
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvolutionArmory View Post
    If you had a severe PCV failure, the car will try to push that excess crankcase build up out of EVERY possible weakness from the oil cap down to the oil filter housing to the rear main. Every seal will be pushed to its limit and thereís quite a few of them
    So, he replaced the valve cover and gasket, the PCV valve, and all the hoses with check valves, plus the oil filter housing. This is basically the entire PCV system. If this is true, then why would the seals be failing now that everything is replaced? And this is at idle, not under boost.

    2019-01-25 09_15_59-SHIRO - PCV system explained.jpg Thanks to Shiro for this write up.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings Charles.waite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjac0bmichaelX View Post
    So, he replaced the valve cover and gasket, the PCV valve, and all the hoses with check valves, plus the oil filter housing. This is basically the entire PCV system. If this is true, then why would the seals be failing now that everything is replaced? And this is at idle, not under boost.

    2019-01-25 09_15_59-SHIRO - PCV system explained.jpg Thanks to Shiro for this write up.
    The seals already had failed because the PCV stuff was toast and allowing the crankcase to pressurize and blow out the seals. It happens, especially as our cars get older and new owners donít know all the niggles with the platform.
    -CP
    2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (2.0t S-Line Ti 6MT Avant) - R8 V10 Coils and Spark Plugs - AMI retrofit - Mk2 RNS-E
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings A U D I's Avatar
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    My question to the mechanic is why the same code is there yet he is $1,600 in and wants $2,600 more. Just looking out for you OP.
    Sometimes when people have not put money into repairs for a while, they think they need to because of it. Could be a simple repair bill and now itís more.

  26. #26
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by A U D I View Post
    My question to the mechanic is why the same code is there yet he is $1,600 in and wants $2,600 more. Just looking out for you OP.
    Sometimes when people have not put money into repairs for a while, they think they need to because of it. Could be a simple repair bill and now itís more.
    He did get rid of the P0010 code. It's still got misfire codes and air intake leaks codes. You would think it all spurred from one issue, but hard to tell the cause and effects.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings A U D I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjac0bmichaelX View Post
    He did get rid of the P0010 code. It's still got misfire codes and air intake leaks codes. You would think it all spurred from one issue, but hard to tell the cause and effects.
    Thought I read you still had the same code. Guess not. I donít think I read you had other codes at the time either.
    I am still challenged on how his repairs are looking and the cost you are at. Iím not there, however itís not adding up as correct repairs to me. Good luck with what you choose to do, although you might want a second opinion on repairs.

  28. #28
    Established Member Four Rings
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    Loose repair labor estimate. Just guesses.

    R&r tranny and clutch kit, replace seal, reseal that area of the oil pan 5+ hours.

    Replace front crank seal and retime the motor 3-4 hours

    R&r intake manifold 3 hours

    Just based off of those numbers, thatís 1200 in labor at 100 dollars an hour

    Factor in diag time, another couple hours.

    Now factor in parts. Intake manifolds can be as much as 300 bucks alone. An OEM oil filter housing is 225 and a PCV valve is 50. Plus the hoses

    Now factor in shop supplies. Coolant, oil, etc

    The shit adds up quick.
    2005.5 A4 Avant: JHM K04R, GIAC K04 tune, RS4 PRV, RS4 fuel pump controller, Treadstone TR6 intercooler core with JHM pipe kit, CTS Turbo test pipe, ECS Tuning snub mount, 034 street tranny mount, 034 street motor mounts, ECS Tuning turbo inlet pipe, ECS Tuning RA4 clutch conversion, Billy Boat Stealth cat back, Fluidampr

  29. #29
    Active Member One Ring
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    Thanks, this helps a lot. I'd say he is doubling his hours. Had it for a week now, says it won't be done till mid next week.

    R&r tranny and clutch kit, replace seal, reseal that area of the oil pan 5+ hours. <<< He said 9 hours

    Replace front crank seal and retime the motor 3-4 hours <<<says 9 hours

  30. #30
    Established Member Four Rings
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    I have no idea what the actual Alldata shop hours are. Book time for dropping the transmission, removing the clutch and the rear main could be a 10-13 hour book job. I donít think I could do one in under a day when I was a tech. I did a 2.5L Jetta tranny swap in 3 hours once but those are cake.

    Just to make sure we are clear, Iím trying to tell you that your mechanicís prices arenít out of line. Just my rough guess of what labor MIGHT be is a huge chunk of change.
    2005.5 A4 Avant: JHM K04R, GIAC K04 tune, RS4 PRV, RS4 fuel pump controller, Treadstone TR6 intercooler core with JHM pipe kit, CTS Turbo test pipe, ECS Tuning snub mount, 034 street tranny mount, 034 street motor mounts, ECS Tuning turbo inlet pipe, ECS Tuning RA4 clutch conversion, Billy Boat Stealth cat back, Fluidampr

  31. #31
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I believe misfires are due to rms seal failure .. just my opinion though ,, that thing would have to be sucking a lot of air.
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
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  32. #32
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Agreed it is unlikely the misfires are from seal leak air incursion, I had the hose from the pcv to the oil filter housing crack with a lot of un-metered air entering the engine it threw a code but otherwise ran fairly well.

  33. #33
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    Problem Solved!
    Wow so happy to finally get some good news. He gets the front end off and the timing cover off to find the CAM SEAL COMPLETELY OUT. Root cause right there. New crank and cam seal, new timing belt, and it's running like it's brand new. Total cost was about $2600. Heading to go pick it up now. Thanks everyone and hopefully this helps someone else with similar issues.

    First Symptoms - P0010 code and very rough idle.
    Later symptoms - misfires, intake leak codes, oil in the belly pan.

    Troubleshooting steps.
    1. Electrical - Fuses and Relays
    2. N205 Valve replaced - resistance out of spec.
    3. New intake manifold
    4. PCV valve, oil filter housing, and various PCV check valves replaced.
    5. HPFP cam follower checked and replaced.
    6. Front end removed and timing cover removed to find cam seal missing.
    7. Replaced front crank seal, cam seal, and timing belt.

    Root cause - missing cam seal
    Other contributing factors - various small PCV and intake leaks, crank seals leaking. Oil soaked timing belt.

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings A U D I's Avatar
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    Awesome, good to hear !

  35. #35
    Senior Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    cam seal ? are you talking about the plug at the back of the head on the intake cam side ? or the seal around the cam advance unit on the front embedded into the upper timing cover ?
    2014 A4 2.0TQ Technik
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    1978 Porsche 911SC Targa
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  36. #36
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Seems the best way to put your kids through college is to charge $2,600 for an unrealistic failure repair, the probability of both the cam and crank seal hanging out would be less than winning the lottery.

  37. #37
    Registered Member Two Rings RJB_melangeb5's Avatar
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    I'm in Illinois I can direct you to people who will properly take care of you. If you choose to get the car fixed. Your definitely getting taken advantage of. Go to GRD tuned in West chicago. I used to work there. They will properly take care of you they won't even work on it if it's not worth it they would tell you to get rid of it not just make you throw money at something.

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