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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    74mm Throttle Body vs 82mm Throttle Body Testing...

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    First, let me take the time to once again thank Bryan at Euromodsperformance.com for the awesome experience purchasing the IABED throttle body harness and adapter. Bryan kept me informed every step of the way and was overwhelmingly responsive, professional and polite throughout the process.

    I was able to take advantage of the 10% off sale and purchased the harness for $270 and the adapter for $180. This is all that is needed. I already had a 74mm Bosch throttle body sitting around from my 997. This TB is on a ton of Porsches and can be found in great shape on ebay too for around $50. I also had the 82mm Bosch Throttle body available which is a common 997 Porsche upgrade. This is usually found brand new for approximately $140


    Thank you also to Issam Abed for taking the initiative to create this harness given us a plug and play solution for upgrading TB sizes.



    CONDITIONS:

    All testing was performed the same day and same hour on the same stretch of road running the same direction. The fuel was the same for both runs. The starting intake air temps were closely matched so IAT related timing changes were not confounding.


    74mm Runs DA: 3:03pm - 71f

    82mm Runs DA: 3:48pm - 70f

    Ultimately its about as well controlled of a test session as you can get without having a climate controlled test cell.

    The following was the vehicle setup for all runs:
    2013 Audi S5, DSG with Unitronic Stage 3 file that allows up to 26 degrees timing and requests 2450mbar boost. 200mm KI pulley was installed with stock SC pulley. Divorced Revo charge cooler installed. Exhaust is stock. The air intake was identical for each run with the exception of the size of inlet to t the throttle body.



    TEST VARIABLES:
    I tested the following setups:


    1. 74mm Throttle body p/n: 99760511501 for 74mm throttle body

    2. 82mm Throttle body p/n 99760511601 for 82mm throttle body



    RESULTS:

    Here is the log of two 74mm runs with cool down in between to stabilize and equalize intake air temps across all sessions and runsÖ

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ke...6SktLBgOdzsz2K

    Here is the log of two 82mm runs with cool down in between to stabilize and equalize intake air temps across all sessions and runsÖ

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O3...9tUOwJgkrLxxHe

    another 2 runs with the 82mm throttle body...

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bi...fI7-Y2jZtUdxe1


    VIRTUAL DYNO -




    DISCUSSION:

    Performance is a wash between both options with this vehicle configuration. No significant gains or losses were observed.

    Also important to keep in mind that this testing was performed on a car with stock blower without ported inlet and on a relatively modest dual pulley ratio of only 3.17. Further testing is to be performed on a ported blower and higher pulley ratios.

    Driveability has been the same as stock thus far. No issues noted. No perceivable difference noted.


    PHOTOS:
    Last edited by bhvrdr; 01-21-2019 at 04:49 PM.

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Would anyone be willing to make some charts out of the data for me? Ill owe you one :)
    Mike

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  3. #3
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Both look pretty much the same. The 74 you get slightly less boost but more engine tq if Iím reading it correctly. Not much of a difference
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    I think i need to virtual dyno the data but my virtual dyno program gives me nothing but error codes. I suck at it

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  5. #5
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Doing it for you now
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  6. #6
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    [IMG][/IMG]


    Very negligible
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  7. #7
    Established Member Three Rings vpls4's Avatar
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    Thank you guys!

    This confirms what Tony@EPL also found doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony@EPL View Post
    In our testing... when staying with a conservative size upgrade, there was no lose in torque (in fact there were significant gains). Then going too big, there's no additional peak horse power gains but there as low end losses (pretty significant if you go too big). We tested several sizes btw.
    '15 S4 - Monsoon | GIAC DP 183-fluidampr / 57-awe & DSG tune | Autotech HPFP, GIAC LPFP | iABED 75mm TB | Tampa Ported SC & 4" Intake
    AMS Alpha Cooler, EuroCode Sways, Links, Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | ECS 2pc D/S Rotors, EBC Red Stuff | HRE FF01, PS4S | Bilstein PSS10's | AWE Touring /Res DPs

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    There were no losses in torque but no gains either. It confirms part of what he saw. I'd say its a wash for now. Not surprising with a non ported blower and only 3.17. I'll test again on parted blower and likely up to 3.55 pulley ratio.

    Hopefully we'll see even more testing soon as a little birdie told me a certain tuner now has one ready to go on their shop S4 for some exhaustive testing in their MAHA dyno chamber.

    mike

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  9. #9
    Established Member Four Rings Morritse's Avatar
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    Yup. A wash. Any differences you're seeing are well within margin of error.

    There's a reason issam and EPL are pushing the 74mm TB.
    187/57 - e85 custom tune (EPL) - custom exhaust -
    ported blower - IABED TB - Brembo BBK - APR CPS - USP intake- 034 sways and drivetrain inserts - cr-15 - 034 density control arms - Koni sport shocks - Eibach lowering springs - VMR v804 -PSS - N2O coming 😎

  10. #10
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Agree but with a larger ratio and ported blower there may be gains but my guess is still minimal at best 5-10 maybe.
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  11. #11
    Senior Member Four Rings ModItNow's Avatar
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    Nice Mike! Really looking forward to seeing the data with ported blower and higher PR.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Audizine mobile app

  12. #12
    Established Member Three Rings brs2c's Avatar
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    As I posted in another thread- Going to be very little difference, if the SC inlet is stock diameter. You canít take advantage of the 82mm, unless you either have the blower inlet ported out to almost no metal left (76-78 opening), OR cut the inlet off and weld a flange on at the wider point of the inlet (80mm opening, and the safer option). Do either of these, and you will see a difference over the 74mm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    2013 S4, Monsoon Grey, DSG, B&O, Sport Diff, Nappa || Custom 3.5" Velocity Stack Intake, EPL Stage 2+, Fluidampr 183mm CP, iAbed Throttle Body, EPL TCU, AMS Alpha Cooler || VMR V804's (19x9.5 et45), ECS 2-piece Rotors, Stainless Lines, 034 SB, 034 trans & subframe inserts, ECS F/R diff inserts.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil35r View Post
    [IMG][url=https://ibb.co/h7CY84R][img]https://i.ibb.co/0DQsJ6j/0-D63-AECA-DB9-F-4-EC1-96-D5-E4822763-


    Very negligible
    Thanks for the graphs!


    Yeah i agree for my mods 74mm makes sense. You can find the tb used for change and the 74mm adapter plate seems like it provides a better seal to the throttle body.

    You can see on the 82mm adapter the seal is broken up by the bolts from the adapter to supercharger. Theres no ring of clean smooth surface around the tb where it mates up to the adapter.

    Mike

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by brs2c View Post
    As I posted in another thread- Going to be very little difference, if the SC inlet is stock diameter. You canít take advantage of the 82mm, unless you either have the blower inlet ported out to almost no metal left (76-78 opening), OR cut the inlet off and weld a flange on at the wider point of the inlet (80mm opening, and the safer option). Do either of these, and you will see a difference over the 74mm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    If someone is willing to mail me an empty core I will gladly cut it off and weld one on for science free of charge.

  15. #15
    Active Member Two Rings
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    +2 in dealing with Bryan at euromods. great experience.
    2013 S4 monsoon gray. EPL DP (fluidampr 183). Milltek exhaust, rotiform wheels, KW variant 1 coilovers, PLM HE, 034 alu kruez, 034 motormounts, trans, diff mounts. solowerks rear swaybar, CR-15 brace, roc-euro intake, rs grille etc. And 2 Land Cruisers

  16. #16
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Couple cleaner vdyno files for comparison:

    First 74mm run vs. First 82mm run in the first file:




    First 74mm vs Second 82mm run in first file:



    In both cases, it looks like 5-10HP increase across most of the powerband. I think the comparison evil35r (lmk if I'm wrong) posted was based on the later log with 1-2 degree higher starting / ending IATs relative to the 74mm logs. I'd say....cautiously optimistic?

    Edit: re-uploaded vdynos with DSG specs (somehow I ran it under manual)
    2014 B8.5 S4 Ice Silver DSG

    EPL Stage 2 DP::EPL TCU Tune::Merc Racing HX::iABED 75mm TB::ECS Luft-Technik Carbon Fiber CAI::Bilstein B12::ECS Transmission Mount::ECS Slotted Geomet Rotors::EBC Red Stuff Pads::19" Black AG M510 Wheels

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k186 View Post
    Couple cleaner vdyno files for comparison:

    First 74mm run vs. First 82mm run in the first file:

    COp8Iii.jpg[/IMG]


    First 74mm vs Second 82mm run in first file:
    [g[/IMG]


    In both cases, it looks like 5-10HP increase across most of the powerband. I think the comparison evil35r (lmk if I'm wrong) posted was based on the later log with 1-2 degree higher starting / ending IATs relative to the 74mm logs. I'd say....cautiously optimistic?

    Edit: re-uploaded vdynos with DSG specs (somehow I ran it under manual)
    Hey, thank you so much yet again! It may not seem like much but I go nuts trying to get my virtual dyno to work, lol. I had mistakenly only posted that first, single 82mm run. I meant to post the 82mm session that had multiple pulls.

    Yeah, its possible there is a little something. At the very least I'm glad there appears to be no losses at all. Perhaps the more we go up in pulley ratio the more we can see.

    Thanks again
    mike

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  18. #18
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    I used the first set of runs in both logs when he first posted them. Yea I agree if anything prob 5-10 still a wash now if I were to do it all over again would I get the 82 now that I am ported and have a larger ratio prob but will I stay where Iím at till Iím bored and wanna switch and sell my 74 maybe lol
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    So my concerns about the design of the 82mm may be well founded.

    Look here at the 82mm tb adapter and see the sunken bolt holes that secure the adapter to the supercharger span the entire width of the adapter plate.... meaning there is no uninterrupted flat surface to mate to the throttle body...




    Here on the 74mm tb adapter see there is a flat full circle of metal that can mate and seal to the tb...




    Sure enough im getting p2279 air leak codes despite torquing perfectly again now to even 15 lbs


    Mike



    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  20. #20
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Mike youíll get a air leak code itís tune related... I donít think you have a air leak. Anyways I used gasket maker in both sides.
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil35r View Post
    Mike youíll get a air leak code itís tune related... I donít think you have a air leak. Anyways I used gasket maker in both sides.
    Never gotvan air leak code on the 74mm and i beat the piss out of it. Look at the imprint in the gasket. I think i need to use something else to seal it no?

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  22. #22
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Gotcha, yea I would just forgo the gasket and use gasket maker...
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Heres the 74mm seal. Theres space to seal between the bolt hole and lip

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  24. #24
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Concur
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil35r View Post
    Concur
    Darn. I was hoping youd tell me why i was being stupid lol

    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Hx, 74mm TB
    11.23 at 121.86mph - draggy - 97 octane - +219DA

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    --------------------------Gone------------------------
    2013 S5 -- 2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  26. #26
    Senior Member Four Rings evil35r's Avatar
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    Lmao youíre being stupid 🤣
    13 S4: Tune EPL, CTS 57/XLR8 196.5 Meth/E file, ROC-EURO w/ velocity stack, RSE test pipes and custom catback, ECS inserts, 034 subframe mounts, CR-15, H&R Sports, ECS Slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Snow Performance meth dual 375 nozzles 50/50 mix, 034 rear sway, coolant pump mod/divorced, Merc hx, AG M590 wheels/Indy 500ís, iABED 75mm TB, Autotech, Matty Blower with hygroscopic vents.

    11.27 @ 122 via Dragy W/ 180/57

    Soon: ECS Catch can install



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