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  1. #1
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Dec 08 2018
    AZ Member #
    432774
    Location
    Chicago IL

    Rough Running- undriveable

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    Hello everyone- I need some help diagnosing an issue with my nephew’s B5 S4. It ran great until one afternoon a few weeks ago when it suddenly began running very rough and would barely stay running at idle.

    I thought I solved it by replacing the MAF after reading a whopping 13 codes.

    After swapping the MAF (with a new Hitachi unit) it started right up and idles nicely. I wiped the codes, let it idle for ten minutes and rescanned it before the test drive where it only showed the P1454 - short to ground code which the previous owner said was done intentionally to "increase performance", whatever that means. Unfortunately during the first test drive it began acting up again. I happens when driving (under load) and begins to run very rough above 2000- 2500 RPM and won’t allow you to increase RPMs beyond that point. When stationary it will rev easily up the range without hesitation so, in other words, it acts up only while driving. After the test drive I scanned for codes again. After the first test drive it showed three codes and the CEL was not on. Later that day I took another test drive. Reading with VCDS provided these results (after the second test drive)-

    4 Faults Found:

    17862 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235)
    P1454 - 35-00 - Short to Ground
    17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S1
    P1131 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
    16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
    P0103 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
    16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
    P0130 - 35-10 - Malfunction in Circuit – Intermittent

    After the first test drive it did not throw the P0130 and the CEL was not on.

    My first inclination is to replace the O2s but I’ve read some posts where others have had the P1131 code and still had an issue after replacing the sensor. Just for a point of reference here was the previous scan BEFORE I replaced the MAF.


    13 Faults Found:
    17965 - Charge Pressure Control
    P1557 - 35-10 - Positive Deviation - Intermittent
    17862 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235)
    P1454 - 35-00 - Short to Ground
    16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
    P0130 - 35-10 - Malfunction in Circuit - Intermittent
    16534 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1
    P0150 - 35-10 - Malfunction in Circuit - Intermittent
    17535 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
    P1127 - 35-00 - System too Rich
    16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    P0300 - 35-00 -
    16688 - Cylinder 4
    P0304 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
    17537 - Fuel Trim; Bank 2 (Mult)
    P1129 - 35-00 - System too Rich
    16687 - Cylinder 3
    P0303 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
    16686 - Cylinder 2
    P0302 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
    16502 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62)
    P0118 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
    17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S1
    P1131 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
    16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
    P0103 - 35-10 - Signal too High – Intermittent
    Readiness: 0000 0101

    Any thoughts and guidance is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 16 2010
    AZ Member #
    67118
    My Garage
    2kS4, 84gli, 84caddy dsl
    Location
    WetSide, WA

    Man, that looks like something to do with the 5v for the sensors.

    I think Id check the grounds 1st.
    Back of heads and on firewall behind coolant res.
    Should prob check the one on the front of pside motor mount bracket to frame also while in there.

    After that, Id be looking to see if one of the sensors is shorted and dragging the 5v down.
    Unplug all and plug back in one at a time until it gets unhappy, thats prob the one.
    Or grab the diags and a meter and check them, sounds intermittent though so might be tough.
    Start with the dumb ones 1st like egts, but the only ones I think you need to run are crank and prob cam.

    If stock tune, dude was full of bs and you will be in limp mode with egt codes.
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should - WD40.

  3. #3
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Dec 08 2018
    AZ Member #
    432774
    Location
    Chicago IL

    Thanks! Regarding the tune... it's allegedly an APR Stage 2

  4. #4
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 10 2017
    AZ Member #
    390358
    Location
    French Creek

    Being that it was throwing an egt code, the egts prob werent coded out in that tune.
    In no case I have ever heard of would grounding them out make more power.
    Dont be surprised if the thing picks up a bunch of power (like doubles) after you get this stuff sorted.

  5. #5
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Dec 08 2018
    AZ Member #
    432774
    Location
    Chicago IL

    Back again trying to get this sorted out. Unfortunately the car is in Columbus Ohio and I live in Chicago so i only get to wrangle with it every few weeks.

    There’s a new wrinkle and I may have stumbled on to something. First, I added emulators to bypass the egt’s. Consequently the egt codes went away. Here’s what I stumbled upon. There’s an ABS code that was present that I didn’t report previously because I didn’t think it was relevant.


    Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
    Part No: 8D0 907 551 M
    Component: 2.7l V6/5VT G 0002
    Coding: 06711
    Shop #: WSC 63251
    VCID: 346D2D2204FEFEEA01-5124

    3 Faults Found:

    17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S1
    P1131 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
    16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1
    P0130 - 35-10 - Malfunction in Circuit - Intermittent
    16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
    P0103 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
    Readiness: 0010 0101

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8D0-907-389.lbl
    Part No: 8D0 907 389 E
    Component: ABS/ESP allrad D56
    Coding: 04395
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 356B10260F84E7E236-5124

    1 Fault Found:
    18265 - Load Signal
    P1857 - 35-10 - Error Message from ECU – Intermittent

    When I rev the engine it winds cleanly to the redline. Then this happens- the triangle lights up and the ABS light comes and then shuts off after a few moments of idle.

    When driving the it stumbles significantly around 3000 rpm under load.

    The MAF was just replaced with a new Hitachi unit.

    What’s my next move?

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 16 2010
    AZ Member #
    67118
    My Garage
    2kS4, 84gli, 84caddy dsl
    Location
    WetSide, WA

    Looking better at least.

    The abs code is due to the maf code. Abs needs to know load, load is calculated with the maf. No maf, no load value for the abs to use.
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should - WD40.

  7. #7
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Dec 08 2018
    AZ Member #
    432774
    Location
    Chicago IL

    Since the MAF is new where or what should I be checking next?

  8. #8
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 10 2017
    AZ Member #
    390358
    Location
    French Creek

    Wiring, grounds, fuses, etc.
    Maybe fuel pump relay, it is the 12v power for the heater in the maf and o2s.

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Dec 08 2018
    AZ Member #
    432774
    Location
    Chicago IL

    The saga continues... In addition to the MAF I just replaced the Fuel Pump Relay. I also checked the fuses and found none blown. The good news is that there's an improvement. Now the ABS light does not illuminate when the engine is revved without load as it did before. Also, when driving everything feels pretty normal until it revs over 4000 RPM(ish) under load where the ABS light comes on again and the severe stumble occurs. Once the load comes off the ABS light goes off on its own. It will actually drive pretty normally at a steady 2000- 3000 rpm.

    There is a new code- Charge Pressure Control P1557 - 35-00 - Positive Deviation

    Here's the most recent scan-

    Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
    Part No: 8D0 907 551 M
    Component: 2.7l V6/5VT G 0002
    Coding: 06711
    Shop #: WSC 63251
    VCID: 346D2D2204FEFEEA09-5140

    3 Faults Found:
    16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
    P0103 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
    17965 - Charge Pressure Control
    P1557 - 35-00 - Positive Deviation
    17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S1
    P1131 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
    Readiness: 0010 0101

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8D0-907-389.lbl
    Part No: 8D0 907 389 E
    Component: ABS/ESP allrad D56
    Coding: 04395
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 356B10260F84E7E23E-5124

    So you know, I only know enough about using Vag Com to be dangerous- meaning other than running scans I'm inexperienced. That said, perhaps there's something else I can do to use this terrific tool to drill down and diagnose even more. All that said, any feedback and direction is greatly appreciated!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings B501S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 09 2007
    AZ Member #
    20960
    My Garage
    01.5 B5S4 Stg III RS6's Built Longblock, Cherokee Classic 4x4
    Location
    Raleigh, NC

    Positive deviation would make me want to look at your wastegate lines. You had a positive deviation (although intermittent) in your OP

    Can see if they hold pressure, and note what psi both wastegate arms move. Mightyvac works well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

  11. #11
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 11 2016
    AZ Member #
    382924
    Location
    Connecticut

    I just recently had some similar codes.

    P1557 and the 02 sensor, I also had misfires on 3 cylinders and was working on tuning my S4.

    I thought maybe the rise in boost was “blowing out” the spark.

    I pulled my coils and pulled out my spark plugs. i have stock coils and ICMs with NGK plugs. I gapped then too high. They were at
    .024-.027. They should have been at .022

    Pull your plugs, check your gap and condition of the plugs.

    This maybe part of the problem in your situation although it may not resolve all the issues, knowing your gap is correct and your plugs are good would support some of what is going on. Plus it takes less than an hour and gives you piece of mind that it’s correct.

    I think you might find this useful.



    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine



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