Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Another HIGH OIL TEMP Issue - Troubleshooting, any new ideas?

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    I have been having an issue I'd never seen before for a while now, but after spending tons of time and replacing 1 part at a time, I am stumped. Here's what's up:

    2002 allroad, 6-speed. Car runs and acts fine driving for about half an hour of driving. During that time, the oil temp slowly moves up from nothing to around 230*. Prior to this, it would settle there. Now, though, it just continues to rise. Freeway, idle, city, doesn't matter. It continues to rise, and around 245*, my coolant temp starts creeping up as well. So have I have:
    Replaced oil temp sensor
    Replaced oil cooler
    Replaced coolant temp sensor
    Replaced cooling fan switch and controller (cooling fans work as they should now)
    Piggie pipes
    Tuned and run on e85 to see if it would run cooler
    Verified stock tune runs at correct AFR
    Flushed and replaced coolant (several times)
    Flushed and replaced oil (0-40 synthetic (twice)
    Switched to high capacity oil filter
    Replaced water pump and thermostat, verified timing (twice)
    Waited until winter to see if anything changed or got better

    ....And I still have the same issue. Car is fine for about a half an hour after starting cold. Oil temp creeps to 245 or so, then oil and coolant temps rise together until I shut the car down. I've only allowed it to go a hair above the first bar to the right of normal operation.

    A couple other details:
    Oil is the color of oil
    Coolant is the color of coolant
    Exhaust looks and smells normal
    No air bubbles or other anomalies in coolant or oil (One theory is that the head gasket might be blown in a particular spot which forces hot gases into oil only)

    I'm stuck. Beyond replacing or rebuilding the motor, I can't think of any other possibilities. Maybe try replacing the radiator, but I don't see how there would be an issue this would help.

    Any ideas? I may have forgot to mention a couple things as well.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    May 09 2012
    AZ Member #
    93306
    My Garage
    08 A4 Avant, 05 Silver S4 2.7t swap
    Location
    Virginia

    Are you pulling the temp values from VCDS, Iím assuming?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    In addition, I verified that the coolant lines to and from the oil cooler flow freely.

    A thought this summer was to add an additional oil cooler via thermostatic sandwich plate at oil filter, mocal air cooled oil cooler, but that has not taken place yet.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  4. #4
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by jbain2 View Post
    Are you pulling the temp values from VCDS, Iím assuming?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Verified in VAG that oil temp appears to lead water temp.

    Also, just additional details: No codes any issues in VAG over this last year. New primary O2s, all LTFTs within +/- 2.

    Heater core is starting to clog up. Bled twice since noticing the climate control fan isn't blowing as hot as it should now that it's winter.

    One thought is that perhaps this vehicle has had Prestone type coolant mixed in at some point so over all cooling system efficiency is down.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Dec 01 2017
    AZ Member #
    410585
    My Garage
    '01 AR 2.7T TP, '83 Mercedes 300TD, DEAD '03 Allroad yet to be resurrected
    Location
    Olathe, CO

    Definitely sounds like cooling system blockage to me

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings rollerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 16 2010
    AZ Member #
    64156
    Location
    Central Wash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergnugen View Post
    Definitely sounds like cooling system blockage to me
    Could be....but having a hard time picturing coolant system clogging causing the OIL TEMP to creep up before the coolant?
    Not a common thing. Would it be worth installing a cheap oil temp gauge temporarily to verify what you're seeing?
    foley803 : What does an electrical surge sound like? Barking dogs? Watermelons?

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Nov 30 2016
    AZ Member #
    387096
    Location
    northfield, ma usa

    I would say radiator I had the exact same problem last spring. If you cut the end caps off the bottom third is all crapped up. I had done a couple flushes before I replaced it finally.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by 4xaudi View Post
    I would say radiator I had the exact same problem last spring. If you cut the end caps off the bottom third is all crapped up. I had done a couple flushes before I replaced it finally.
    This will be the next item replaced. Thanks. Found many threads with these issues, but none that found solutions.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings PaperToast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 29 2009
    AZ Member #
    41811
    My Garage
    Quadzilla
    Location
    Longmont, CO

    Quote Originally Posted by 4xaudi View Post
    I would say radiator I had the exact same problem last spring. If you cut the end caps off the bottom third is all crapped up. I had done a couple flushes before I replaced it finally.
    i'll +1 this
    given the age of the car, radiator replacement is due
    when i had my 3rd TB done at 230k, the rad (which was original) was starting to leak at the ends
    got a new one due to the shop dropping the water pump on the old one
    Rockin' the Rockies
    '01 allroad, 240k woot woot, still boosting on original turbos and tippy, slightly more modified. . .

    Scotty@Advanced, "Push it off a cliff, when it hits the ground you should have a few thousand horsepower available for a brief second."

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Bordom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 10 2013
    AZ Member #
    134985
    Location
    Pickering, Ontario, Canada

    I have a stock Allroad rad if interested.
    Bordom's Allroad; Boat in the Street
    03 Allroad 6-spd

    IG: 24_et

    MODS: C5 S6 4.2 Swap, Modified CSF Performance Rad, Dual 14" EFK, 4.11 Swap, 12lb TTV V8 Flywheel, B7 RS4 Clutch, Custom True Dual Exhaust

    RIP:
    2001.5 Brilliant Black S4 6-spd

  11. #11
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Dec 01 2017
    AZ Member #
    410585
    My Garage
    '01 AR 2.7T TP, '83 Mercedes 300TD, DEAD '03 Allroad yet to be resurrected
    Location
    Olathe, CO

    Quote Originally Posted by rollerton View Post
    Could be....but having a hard time picturing coolant system clogging causing the OIL TEMP to creep up before the coolant?
    Not a common thing. Would it be worth installing a cheap oil temp gauge temporarily to verify what you're seeing?
    From post 4, "Heater core is starting to clog up. Bled twice since noticing the climate control fan isn't blowing as hot as it should now that it's winter.

    One thought is that perhaps this vehicle has had Prestone type coolant mixed in at some point so over all cooling system efficiency is down. "


    Anytime one part of the cooling system is starting to clog, you'd have to bet that it is happening elsewhere, or is about to happen.

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Nov 30 2016
    AZ Member #
    387096
    Location
    northfield, ma usa

    Quote Originally Posted by rollerton View Post
    Could be....but having a hard time picturing coolant system clogging causing the OIL TEMP to creep up before the coolant?
    Not a common thing. Would it be worth installing a cheap oil temp gauge temporarily to verify what you're seeing?
    That was my first observation the oil temp would start to creep up especially under load. Then the coolant temp would start creeping up after the oil temp was up 25-35C higher than normal(225C).

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings rollerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 16 2010
    AZ Member #
    64156
    Location
    Central Wash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrvergnugen View Post
    From post 4, "Heater core is starting to clog up. Bled twice since noticing the climate control fan isn't blowing as hot as it should now that it's winter.

    One thought is that perhaps this vehicle has had Prestone type coolant mixed in at some point so over all cooling system efficiency is down. "


    Anytime one part of the cooling system is starting to clog, you'd have to bet that it is happening elsewhere, or is about to happen.
    Good theory..except the heater core is a 'bypass' type thing, it has absolutely nothing to do with actual cooling of the system. It does sort of provide some extra heat dissipation when on full heat and fan blowing...but it is not designed to aid in cooling the engine in general. It can be entirely plugged or removed and you shouldn't notice any difference in cooling.
    foley803 : What does an electrical surge sound like? Barking dogs? Watermelons?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by rollerton View Post
    Good theory..except the heater core is a 'bypass' type thing, it has absolutely nothing to do with actual cooling of the system. It does sort of provide some extra heat dissipation when on full heat and fan blowing...but it is not designed to aid in cooling the engine in general. It can be entirely plugged or removed and you shouldn't notice any difference in cooling.
    I am replacing my heater core this week. Was so glad to find out there is an access point on the driver side next to the accelerator - should be too hard. If it helps noticeably with the oil temp on my ride, it seems like a sure thing that the radiator is the final solution to the puzzle.

    Doing research on this issue, it seems quite common. There are many posts across the net of owners of B5 and C5 vehicles with unusually high oil temps. I haven't searched for other platforms. I suspect adding Prestone to G12 or perhaps some specific types of coolant flush is the cause. I've seen several cars completely flushed then run on Prestone for years without issue, so I don't think its the green stuff alone. Nor does mileage nor age alone seem to be at fault. Most cars never have any issues whatsoever even after 200-250k miles, but to those that have problems, those problems aren't mild and this is happening at much lower mileage: 75k, 100k etc. I could be completely wrong, but there has to be some commonality.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  15. #15
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by 4xaudi View Post
    I would say radiator I had the exact same problem last spring. If you cut the end caps off the bottom third is all crapped up. I had done a couple flushes before I replaced it finally.
    Did you post a thread on this? I think it was your thread that got me more focused on the cooling system.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings rollerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 16 2010
    AZ Member #
    64156
    Location
    Central Wash

    The theory might work...it could cure your whole problem...I'm just trying to understand how or whats behind it. Theoretically you could test it by just plumbing the heater core hoses together to bypass it. If you still have the oil temp curiosity after that then it wasn't the heater core?
    By design the heater core CAN NOT increase coolant temps and therefore oil temp. I mean...how can it?
    foley803 : What does an electrical surge sound like? Barking dogs? Watermelons?

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Jun 07 2005
    AZ Member #
    6784
    Location
    Shepherdstown, WV

    Quote Originally Posted by rollerton View Post
    The theory might work...it could cure your whole problem...I'm just trying to understand how or whats behind it. Theoretically you could test it by just plumbing the heater core hoses together to bypass it. If you still have the oil temp curiosity after that then it wasn't the heater core?
    By design the heater core CAN NOT increase coolant temps and therefore oil temp. I mean...how can it?
    I'm with you on this. According to the first post oil temp goes up and then coolant follows. If this was a problem created by lack of cooling as in heater core was blocked or similar problem removing it from the loop and reducing the capacity/cooling ability of it then I would think it would be a plausible cause. But the problem doesn't seem to stem from an issue with the cooling system based on the oil temp rising before coolant temp, then again the gauges are dumb so coolant may actually be high before he notices the gauge.

    OP have you checked vcds data blocks and seen which occurs first or just relying on the cluster?



    I don't know what it is, but I'm not sure a heater core is going to help simply because it doesn't add all that much to the cooling system.



    Is this 12:1 engine in the sig what is in the car or something else?
    80 rabbit pickup, 98 TJ 4bt cummins, 00 180TTQ 6spd, 02 Freelander, 03 Allroad 2.7t 6spd swap now with K04s, 06 A3 2.0T w/GT3071R (2012 JSW TDI and 2015 GSW TDI now in TDI purgatory )

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings AllroadCorbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 15 2014
    AZ Member #
    139081
    My Garage
    2000 B5 S4 | 2005 Saab 9-3 | 2018 B9 Allroad
    Location
    Boston, MA

    I bet that pan sensor is on its way out. They die often and unless itís OEM or maybe hella they die quicker / donít even work right


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    B8.5 Allroad | APR | CTS K04
    B5 S4 | GermanElite | SRM K24
    05' Saab 9-3
    92' Saab 900s

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings C5S6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 04 2008
    AZ Member #
    33837
    My Garage
    '02 S6 Avant, '03 A6 Sedan
    Location
    5280

    Looks like you are in Boise - Have you met Iancu AKA "kinderutz"? I'm sure he'd be glad to give you a 2nd opinion. https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-audi-guy-boise
    -TJ
    2002 S6
    2003 A6 2.7t MT6

  20. #20
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by C5S6 View Post
    Looks like you are in Boise - Have you met Iancu AKA "kinderutz"? I'm sure he'd be glad to give you a 2nd opinion. https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-audi-guy-boise
    I have not met him in person, but he is in our local audi forum giving out diagnostic advice from time to time. I think the issue is solved, just need to put in the work.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress

  21. #21
    Senior Member Two Rings disrepos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 04 2012
    AZ Member #
    98077
    My Garage
    '02 allroad QM
    Location
    Boise, ID

    Quote Originally Posted by rollerton View Post
    The theory might work...it could cure your whole problem...I'm just trying to understand how or whats behind it. Theoretically you could test it by just plumbing the heater core hoses together to bypass it. If you still have the oil temp curiosity after that then it wasn't the heater core?
    By design the heater core CAN NOT increase coolant temps and therefore oil temp. I mean...how can it?
    The heater core is a side issue that needs to be fixed. When I replaced the oil cooler, it helped with oil temp some, but also made the coolant temp more dependent on oil temp. Then since the heat core was also having issues, it really made me start leaning toward a flow issue with the cooling system. I have a vagcom, verified oil temp is driving coolant temp. This wasn't really neccessary, because its easy to see the coolant temp warm up to normal operating level a few minutes after start up. As we all know, oil temp takes much longer. I could watch it heat up 150, 175, 200, 225.... and around 235, coolant temp starts moving up from the center bar. YEAH.... this was messing with me a lot. I've never seen anything like it.

    Manual transmission allroads have coolant cooled transmission oil coolers as well, so to complicate things more, there was the possibility of something going on with that as well.

    regarding the 12:1 motor, I ended up selling it and installing to a friend's car. Just forgot to update my sig. We dropped it to 11:1 with comp lowering headgaskets as we decided it was a little too extreme. That car runs great, spunky as hell even off boost.
    '02 allroad
    12:1 cr built engine complete
    diy gtx3582r build in progress



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2018 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.