B8 S4 APR tuning super thread

[RobbieM]

I was doing some personal research into the benefits of each stage of APR tuning for the B8 S4 and drew an intersting conclusion. It seems that by far stage I is the best bang for your buck. I figured since I layed all of the information out it would be nice for anyone intersted in finding out about APR products for your B8 S4. Let me know if you have any questions! All information is from APRs website.

APR Stages Audi B8 S4

*Required
**One or both

Stage I:
Stage I ECU tune - $999.99

Stage II:
Stage II ECU tune - $249.99
**Supercharger Drive Pulley - $199.99
**Supercharger Crank Pulley - $349.99

Stage II+:
Stage II+ ECU tune - No additional charge
*Supercharger Cooling System - $1049.98
*Ultracharger Throttle Body - $1199.99
*Supercharger Drive & Crank Pulleys - $549.99
*Remove OEM catalyst - Race Pipes available soon
*Intake system - Just buy something else honestly

(Supercharger Cooling System, Race Pipes, and Intake system work at any stage)

Stage I total:
$999.99
+108 hp, +50 ft-lbs
441 hp, 375 ft-lbs

Stage II total:
(Drive Pulley) $449.98
(Crank Pulley) $599.98
(Both) $799.98
+4 hp, +20 ft-lbs
Single Pulley 445 hp, 395 ft-lbs
+24 hp, +53 ft-lbs
Dual Pulley 465 hp, 428 ft-lbs


Stage II+ total:
$2249.97 + Race pipes
+33hp, +13 ft-lbs
498 hp, 441 ft-lbs

Stock to Stage II+ total:
approx. $4049.94
+165 hp, +116 lb-ft

Stage I gives you 65% of the total power for approx. 25% of the total cost.

[Envy187]

Thank you for this!

[RobbieM]

Also I forgot to add that you have to spend an additional $899.99 for stage II+ if you have a DSG B8 so you are able to pass the factory redline.

[Flint]

Nice, thanks for putting this out there for reference!


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[digitalchris]

The DSG tune(with its increased redline) also helps to get all the possible benefit out of the stage 1 tune, so you might want to take that into consideration.

[Morritse]

A "stage 1 tune" is almost universally the best bang for you buck. Any platform, any tuner.

After that diminishing returns start.

[RobbieM]

I originally layed this out for my own car and my S4 is manual. That's a very good point though. Also I forgot to add that the figures I used from APR's website is based on running 93 octane.

[BlueSteW8]

Stage I is horsepower
Stage II, especially Dual Pulley, is more about torque

[Morritse]

Stage I is horsepower
Stage II, especially Dual Pulley, is more about torque

Yeah, peak horsepower should not he the only metric. You have to compare area under the HP curve. That's what translates to acceleration.

[GandalfTheIbis]

I came here to make comments and Morritse already made them both, lol

[Joe85sti]

Go get stage I, then go stage II. Come back and tell is which one is more "bang for your buck".

[dlo93]

Save up and go straight from stock to DP with CPS

[jimrobbington]

Go with any other company to get more bang for your buck...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[S4ilicious]

What this guy said 👆🏼Plenty of other Tuners that can get you “ a better bang for your buck” / more support but at the End of the day go with whoever makes your boat rock 😉

[Jamen]

I believed in the bang for buck HP for the first 2 years of ownership. Recently upgraded to APR DP and there is no way I would go back.

1) Upgrade your HX as even at stock the factory HX is bunk.
2) Install the DP and drive around a bit before changing the software... you’ll notice a difference even then.
3) Get the DSG Tune, drive around and feel the improvement
4) load the Stage II software and introduce yourself to an all new car
5) UltraCharger baby!!!

[AerotusX]

Go get stage I, then go stage II. Come back and tell is which one is more "bang for your buck".

This is so true! Don't let the numbers and charts fool you.

[RobbieM]

You're totally right, I was just surprised to see the actual numbers becasue I've always heard people say that, but have never seen the true figures!

[RobbieM]

Stage I is horsepower
Stage II, especially Dual Pulley, is more about torque

That's definetly the best way to put it!

[RobbieM]

Go with any other company to get more bang for your buck...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I completely agree, it's kind of rediculous how low the power increases get for the amount of money.

[RobbieM]

I believed in the bang for buck HP for the first 2 years of ownership. Recently upgraded to APR DP and there is no way I would go back.

1) Upgrade your HX as even at stock the factory HX is bunk.
2) Install the DP and drive around a bit before changing the software... you’ll notice a difference even then.
3) Get the DSG Tune, drive around and feel the improvement
4) load the Stage II software and introduce yourself to an all new car
5) UltraCharger baby!!!

I'm just super pumped for the race pipes that they are coming out with. I think that might need to be the next mod.

[RobbieM]

Yeah, peak horsepower should not he the only metric. You have to compare area under the HP curve. That's what translates to acceleration.

You're totally right. This little spread sheet is what I had time to make during one of my lectures at school, but maybe I'll look into it more and get back to you with some other figures!

[Morritse]

You're totally right. This little spread sheet is what I had time to make during one of my lectures at school, but maybe I'll look into it more and get back to you with some other figures!

I'd actually be curious to integrate the power curves at stock, stage 1 and stage 2. Compare the differences in areas between 0-1 and 1-2 see which gives you more.

[Morritse]

OK here's some quick maths. If you want I can do this with any upgrade, so let me know. I think you'll be surprised how much fueling changes things.




Stage 2 contains about 25% more area under the curve than stage 1 COMPARED TO STOCK.

Stage 1 costs $1000
Stage 2 upgrade costs $250 + pulley.

So you get 25% more performance for 50% more, which is pretty good in my book.

just for kicks, stage 1 on 104 octane fuel gives you almost 38% more area than stage 1 compared to stock, and ultracharger with 104 gives you almost 250% more than stage 1 compared to stock. I'm not sure why APR dyno only show OEM going up to 6k, I know these aren't real dyno graphs, but surely they could have simulated 3rd gear...

[fx_warrior]

I love how other threads with other tuners seem to have no issue, someone tried to start one with APR, now here come all the insecure men with baby parts to say how terrible APR is. LOL.

People are super transparent these days.

Well I enjoy my stage 1 that's taken an M4, 750i, X6M the newer stangs and wrecked every WRX among others. Going dual pulley soon can't wait.


Now if another tuner can actually produce a tune that consistently beats APR's numbers I MIGHT think about switching over, until them hate on babies.



And if people are going to sit there and ignore issues that other tuners have had..... like they do, well again knowing how people act, it's no surprise at all.

[Morritse]

I love how other threads with other tuners seem to have no issue, someone tried to start one with APR, now here come all the insecure men with baby parts to say how terrible APR is. LOL.

People are super transparent these days.

Well I enjoy my stage 1 that's taken an M4, 750i, X6M the newer stangs and wrecked every WRX among others. Going dual pulley soon can't wait.


Now if another tuner can actually produce a tune that consistently beats APR's numbers I MIGHT think about switching over, until them hate on babies.

No offence, but you have a stage 1 car... Thats only been compared to other cars, not s4s on comparable tunes. I don't see how you beating an m4 has any relevance on comparing tunes.

Take it from the people that have had multiple tuners, and multiple tunes with a wide array of hardware.

No one here is saying APR is "bad" APR is objectively no slower than any other tuner out there, however, there are a lot of other factors which come into play, making APR a less attractive option for some.

I also find it quite ironic that you think people have "lady parts" for speaking their opinions, yet you're getting all defensive and defending your stage 1 car with anecdotal, irrelevant,
misinformation.

Anyways, I'm interested to see why exactly you think APR is the best, never bad to learn something new

[jimrobbington]

No offence, but you have a stage 1 car... Thats only been compared to other cars, not s4s on comparable tunes. I don't see how you beating an m4 has any relevance on comparing tunes.

Take it from the people that have had multiple tuners, and multiple tunes with a wide array of hardware.

No one here is saying APR is "bad" APR is objectively no slower than any other tuner out there, however, there are a lot of other factors which come into play, making APR a less attractive option for some.

I also find it quite ironic that you think people have "lady parts" for speaking their opinions, yet you're getting all defensive and defending your stage 1 car with anecdotal, irrelevant,
misinformation.

Anyways, I'm interested to see why exactly you think APR is the best, never bad to learn something new

Lol so true, saying APR is worst "bang for the buck" doesn't at all imply it's slow. I was simply stating its typically the most expensive option out there by far. And they don't come down in price until there's a competitor that forces them to do so. Also, i've been on these forums for about 10 years, and APR has always been the same old story. First to market, creates insane pricing structure, eventually other tuners catch up and make better products, they dump the platform and move on to the next best thing they can charge exorbitant prices for.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[RobbieM]

I love how other threads with other tuners seem to have no issue, someone tried to start one with APR, now here come all the insecure men with baby parts to say how terrible APR is. LOL.

People are super transparent these days.

Well I enjoy my stage 1 that's taken an M4, 750i, X6M the newer stangs and wrecked every WRX among others. Going dual pulley soon can't wait.



Now if another tuner can actually produce a tune that consistently beats APR's numbers I MIGHT think about switching over, until them hate on babies.



And if people are going to sit there and ignore issues that other tuners have had..... like they do, well again knowing how people act, it's no surprise at all.

I was in no way trying to start an issue with APR. I was just curious about the figures myself and figured since I had the information layed out that I would post it this forum in case someone needed help figuring out the different stages. The prospect of going APR is better now more than ever, they just lowered prices on a lot of 3.0T products.

[RobbieM]

OK here's some quick maths. If you want I can do this with any upgrade, so let me know. I think you'll be surprised how much fueling changes things.




Stage 2 contains about 25% more area under the curve than stage 1 COMPARED TO STOCK.

Stage 1 costs $1000
Stage 2 upgrade costs $250 + pulley.

So you get 25% more performance for 50% more, which is pretty good in my book.

just for kicks, stage 1 on 104 octane fuel gives you almost 38% more area than stage 1 compared to stock, and ultracharger with 104 gives you almost 250% more than stage 1 compared to stock. I'm not sure why APR dyno only show OEM going up to 6k, I know these aren't real dyno graphs, but surely they could have simulated 3rd gear...

This is great! Even looking at the curves on the graphs you can also see shift in peak torque to a lower rpm which will make a big difference too. You can notice it on the stage one graph, but defenitely notice it more in stages 2 and 2+.

[BlueSteW8]

"Anyways, I'm interested to see why exactly you think APR is the best, never bad to learn something new "

I took a quick look at the 1/4 mile thread, and noticed the following:
of the 25 top times - 17 are APR (68%), 4 are GIAC (16%), 2 each 034 (8%) and EPL (8%) (Loe having both an APR time and GIAC, several others with more than one entry).
Keeping in mind that the best times are run on 104, E85/93 blends, and a Meth blend thrown in as well.

[wangshuo1989]

I love how other threads with other tuners seem to have no issue, someone tried to start one with APR, now here come all the insecure men with baby parts to say how terrible APR is. LOL.

People are super transparent these days.

Well I enjoy my stage 1 that's taken an M4, 750i, X6M the newer stangs and wrecked every WRX among others. Going dual pulley soon can't wait.


Now if another tuner can actually produce a tune that consistently beats APR's numbers I MIGHT think about switching over, until them hate on babies.



And if people are going to sit there and ignore issues that other tuners have had..... like they do, well again knowing how people act, it's no surprise at all.

I don’t think you can beat a M4 on highway pull. M4 is lighter and has more power than a stage 1 S4

[Morritse]

"Anyways, I'm interested to see why exactly you think APR is the best, never bad to learn something new "

I took a quick look at the 1/4 mile thread, and noticed the following:
of the 25 top times - 17 are APR (68%), 4 are GIAC (16%), 2 each 034 (8%) and EPL (8%) (Loe having both an APR time and GIAC, several others with more than one entry).
Keeping in mind that the best times are run on 104, E85/93 blends, and a Meth blend thrown in as well.

You're absolutely right in your numbers, however, this doesn't actually imply that APR is faster.

There are too many confounding variables, and I can try to explain some.

1) The most obvious: APR is by far the most popular tuner for B8 S4. Of all the people who have tuned s4s, I'd say 70+% are APR tuned.

2) APR was the first tuner to release products for the b8 S4 platform. People who are into tuning, into getting fast times, are the ones who will jump on tuning when there's something available. And it's reasonable to assume that they stayed with APR simply because switching to another tuner is expensive and usually not worth it.

3) although your data was correct, your interpretation is off IMO. The fact that APR has most but not all of the fastest 25 times shows that other tuners ARE as fast, but there are more people running APR.

[BlueSteW8]

There are other variables at play, for sure.
DA factors in, individual car(s) as well as drivers.
Loe ran fast times on both GIAC and APR - in fact I think he switched TO APR to use UC.

IE is new to the game, and there may be better times to be had by them.

We are all here for the same reason, not to piss in one another's corn flakes.
There is more than way to get to where we want - I made my choices based on what was available at the time, and have no regrets.
12+ months on DP, about 3 months with UC on top of that. No CELs, no funky soft/ghost codes or other drama.
With what is available now, I might go a different route

I ran GIAC 91/93/100 octane programs on my 2003 W8, and JHM's tune on my 2008 B7 S4, so I am not a dyed in the wool APR user.

[Silver_Bullet]

There are too many confounding variables, and I can try to explain some.

Don't forget the Ultracharger! APR had the field for themselves for over a year but now there is a universal throttle body upgrade for all the tuners. I predict 2019 to be the year of parity, with a lot of tuners making headway and getting into the 10s. The top 1/4 times will look a lot more even in a year. But the track is the crucible that these tuners will have to pass through, everything else is unsubstantiated banter.

Except that Oleg and any other turbo guys will be pushing to get in the 9s, making all this look very second tier.

[JD S4]

I was completely underwhelmed with Stage 1 and would have been salty about the money spent if I stayed there.


Sent from my

[hilmar2k]

I see a lot of post-purchase justification going on in this thread.....

This isn't a zero sum game. One tuner can be good, without another being bad. For me, I am going to choose a tuner than allows me to tune at home, so that's likely either IE or EPL. I expect that they, along with a host of other tuners, will all yield similar results. Stop getting so defensive if someone doesn't say your tuner is the bestest evarrrr....

[Morritse]

Shamelessly plugging my own thread ;)

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-EPL-91-93-E85

From my personal experiences there wasn't a significant difference in power between 034 e40 APR 104, and EPL E85

[BlueSteW8]

I see a lot of post-purchase justification going on in this thread.....

This isn't a zero sum game. One tuner can be good, without another being bad. For me, I am going to choose a tuner than allows me to tune at home, so that's likely either IE or EPL. I expect that they, along with a host of other tuners, will all yield similar results. Stop getting so defensive if someone doesn't say your tuner is the bestest evarrrr....

Indeed, as I said, given the changes over the past 16 months I might go a different route today.

EPL is a solid choice, but they don't remove the top speed limiter or have a test-pipe option - probably due to liability concerns being in CT.
IE is a solid choice as well, and coming on strong - they weren't here when I tuned my car.

Competition is good for us all - Ultracharger used to run 1,599.99, now it has dropped to 1,199.99. Got mine cheaper than that.

[Morritse]

Indeed, as I said, given the changes over the past 16 months I might go a different route today.

EPL is a solid choice, but they don't remove the top speed limiter or have a test-pipe option - probably due to liability concerns being in CT.
IE is a solid choice as well, and coming on strong - they weren't here when I tuned my car.

Competition is good for us all - Ultracharger used to run 1,599.99, now it has dropped to 1,199.99. Got mine cheaper than that.

EPL is actually including a user specified speed limiter for "valet mode"
soon. And AFAIK, test pipe tunes don't increase performance, just get rid of CEL.

[BlueSteW8]

Throttle body working yet?

[Morritse]

Throttle body working yet?

On all but e85 tunes it works flawlessly... If I didn't have finals right now I'd have time to do more troubleshooting.