P0011 and p0172, where to start?

[2pointOh]

So I have had a p000a and a p0011 code that have popped up now and then, and my n205 has oil in the connector so I know it's bad. I haven't changed it because the car has run fine despite the codes and I just haven't felt the need to throw the $100 at it.

Just yesterday, I realized the car seemed to be "lunging" a bit while driving, so I scanned the CEL (expecting a p000a as usual) and a p0172 showed up for the first time. Cleared it, and it came back today with a rough idle on a cold start for a minute until it settled down to normal.

Could this be because of the n205 and colder weather? I'll buy one tomorrow if so. If not... start with the maf and go from there? Not sure what to look at really!

Thanks everyone

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[EvolutionArmory]

It looks like your codes are for cam timing. The P0172 code is a rich condition and can pop up when cam timing codes are present according to Ross Tech. If it was just this code with no timing codes I’d say you had a bad PCV or maybe a vacuum leak but check this link out.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...6/P0172/000370

It looks like you should have the car checked to see if it’s cam timing tensioner and chain time. If you have oil in your N205 connector you should replace that but it might not be the end of it.

[2pointOh]

It looks like your codes are for cam timing. The P0172 code is a rich condition and can pop up when cam timing codes are present according to Ross Tech. If it was just this code with no timing codes I’d say you had a bad PCV or maybe a vacuum leak but check this link out.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...6/P0172/000370

It looks like you should have the car checked to see if it’s cam timing tensioner and chain time. If you have oil in your N205 connector you should replace that but it might not be the end of it.

Thanks for the reply! I'm gonna poke around today and look for any visible hose leaks and such. I'll clean the maf too and try to start it with it unplugged to see if it makes a difference. I added some new displays to torque to check the maf and afr but I'm not entirely sure what sort of numbers to look for.

Someone just offered a n205 on the classifieds so I'll pick that up and at least knock one of those codes out

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[Theiceman]

how many miles on the car ??? if you are in the 170k range id be think about that timing chain regardless.. Sluggishness and rough idle is not a good sign, especially if around that mileage and in my mind failure could be around the corner. if your oil pressure light comes on turn off car immediately as it means your tensioner gave way and is dumping pressure. As soon as the tensioner gives out you can skip timing and as you know its all bad from there.
Also if the car sounds kind of like a diesel with clicking at the back of the head its also an indicator with other symptoms that things are heading south.

Could just be the valve , but to be informed of all possibilities is good. Being in Buffalo sucks when your car does this at this time of year. I'm just North of you . they never seem to do this on a warm summers day

[2pointOh]

how many miles on the car ??? if you are in the 170k range id be think about that timing chain regardless.. Sluggishness and rough idle is not a good sign, especially if around that mileage and in my mind failure could be around the corner. if your oil pressure light comes on turn off car immediately as it means your tensioner gave way and is dumping pressure. As soon as the tensioner gives out you can skip timing and as you know its all bad from there.
Also if the car sounds kind of like a diesel with clicking at the back of the head its also an indicator with other symptoms that things are heading south.

Could just be the valve , but to be informed of all possibilities is good. Being in Buffalo sucks when your car does this at this time of year. I'm just North of you . they never seem to do this on a warm summers day

Yeah man it always seems to be when it gets cold hahah. I'm approaching 180k so I guess that's not out of the realm of possibilities. It hasn't been sluggish at all until this popped up. I'll have to take a listen to the back of the engine and see if it sounds any louder than normal. If it is the chain and tensioner, how much should I expect to shell out for that?

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[2pointOh]

New development. Went to start it today and it was real rough till it stalled out. Tried with the maf unplugged and it seemed the same. This may be an untrained sense, but it kinda smelled like there was gas on the dipstick when I checked to make sure it was seated properly?

Anyway, I decided to clear the codes with torque and start the car again.. and it ran fine... so how the hell does that work?

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[canadianA4B7]

Change that N205 before you have more troubles. Mine did same thing few months ago and had oil on connector.

[2pointOh]

Change that N205 before you have more troubles. Mine did same thing few months ago and had oil on connector.

Will do! Buying one off the forums now. Luckily I don't have to use the car much over the next week with the holiday and going out of town.

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[2pointOh]

Change that N205 before you have more troubles. Mine did same thing few months ago and had oil on connector.

Sorry, on second read, you had the same symptoms going on as I do?

Also, another update. Car still isn't idling right while cold. I think clearing the codes was just a fluke, as the car had warmed up at that point. On a cold start, under power it's very jerky till it smooths out after a minute.

If the car when warm is running better (not perfect, still doesn't feel as smooth but I know my n205 is bad) that should mean the O2 sensors are fine right? Since when its closed loop it seems okay.

What part(s) would cause a rough idle on cold start? I'm just not sure what's responsible for the fuel mix at that point.

I'll try to drive one my parents cars if available when I can until this n205 is replaced.

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[canadianA4B7]

Similar symptoms mine wud be slightly jerky/hesitant on take off. Once I was above 2500 rpm it did smooth out but it was not running correct. The N205 must be in good working order to correctly detect cams/tension on chain or whatever it’s supposed to be detecting. If not you have the problems you have. At first I had thought it was cam sensor so I changed that on the front of engine no avail.

[2pointOh]

Similar symptoms mine wud be slightly jerky/hesitant on take off. Once I was above 2500 rpm it did smooth out but it was not running correct. The N205 must be in good working order to correctly detect cams/tension on chain or whatever it’s supposed to be detecting. If not you have the problems you have. At first I had thought it was cam sensor so I changed that on the front of engine no avail.

Ah gotcha. So not the rough idle and such?

And I had to replace that sensor over the summer when that took a crap too hahah

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[canadianA4B7]

Mines has a bit more idle then most and with cam it’s a bit different sounding as well. So it could have been a bit rough idle. What I noticed most was as I described on take off it was a bit hesitant/rough.

[2pointOh]

Mines has a bit more idle then most and with cam it’s a bit different sounding as well. So it could have been a bit rough idle. What I noticed most was as I described on take off it was a bit hesitant/rough.

Gotcha. Well that at least explains that part of it for me! My cold start idle is rough rough, to the point of stalling if I don't give it gas.

Has this forum kind of died a bit? I've been away for a while because my car is modded to as far as I'll go hahah, but it seems like a lot of the regulars I remember aren't around!

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[Theiceman]

Jerkiness when cold could be a multitude of things . Likely you have misfire codes stored and that could be anything , everything from fuel delivery to cam advance to cracked coils. Could be literally anything, espcecially with cold enrichment kicking in. I was actually thinking of going 0w40 from 5w40 for the winter. Car sounded like a bag of hammers starting this morning at -14C, ( there is no real detent to stop the tensioner from collapsing overnight lik eon the B8 ) so takes a second or two for the oil to get there . Once it started and warmed up she stopped complaining though . I think in general though as our cars get older ( like me ) they will complain more in colder weather.

at 180 I think I would be putting tensioner and chain on my list . My local quoted me about 500 CAD to do chain and tensioner but I just did it myself as my chain snapped on a cold start last February in -15C weather. I was lucky not to bend any valves ( 170k ) .
I ended up replacing tensioner, chain rear housing ( wreckers 40 bucks due to vacuum pump thread stripped on previous repair ) . oil control rings 75 bucks, exhaust cam poly bolt 5 bucks.
I don't recommend this repair yourself unless you are a knowledable DIY guy but just giving you an idea of the job.

[2pointOh]

Jerkiness when cold could be a multitude of things . Likely you have misfire codes stored and that could be anything , everything from fuel delivery to cam advance to cracked coils. Could be literally anything, espcecially with cold enrichment kicking in. I was actually thinking of going 0w40 from 5w40 for the winter. Car sounded like a bag of hammers starting this morning at -14C, ( there is no real detent to stop the tensioner from collapsing overnight lik eon the B8 ) so takes a second or two for the oil to get there . Once it started and warmed up she stopped complaining though . I think in general though as our cars get older ( like me ) they will complain more in colder weather.

at 180 I think I would be putting tensioner and chain on my list . My local quoted me about 500 CAD to do chain and tensioner but I just did it myself as my chain snapped on a cold start last February in -15C weather. I was lucky not to bend any valves ( 170k ) .
I ended up replacing tensioner, chain rear housing ( wreckers 40 bucks due to vacuum pump thread stripped on previous repair ) . oil control rings 75 bucks, exhaust cam poly bolt 5 bucks.
I don't recommend this repair yourself unless you are a knowledable DIY guy but just giving you an idea of the job.

That's a lot of good info, thanks! If there is misfire codes, torque would be picking those up wouldn't it? That's the odd thing to me, it's only a p0172 code (and the p000a/p0011 from the n205). And yeah as far as that goes, I'd let a shop do it if it comes to that. I've done some DIY stuff but nothing too major like that would be hahah.

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[Theiceman]

That's a lot of good info, thanks! If there is misfire codes, torque would be picking those up wouldn't it? That's the odd thing to me, it's only a p0172 code (and the p000a/p0011 from the n205). And yeah as far as that goes, I'd let a shop do it if it comes to that. I've done some DIY stuff but nothing too major like that would be hahah.

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yeah you are right its likely due to wrong cam advancement... but id be just nervous blaming everything on that N205 with your higher miles. Id keep a close eye on it . if it hiccups again with the new N205 I wouldn't think twice about pulling the trigger on that tensioner.

[2pointOh]

yeah you are right its likely due to wrong cam advancement... but id be just nervous blaming everything on that N205 with your higher miles. Id keep a close eye on it . if it hiccups again with the new N205 I wouldn't think twice about pulling the trigger on that tensioner.

For sure. If the n205 doesn't fix it and it's not the maf or anything, I'm driving to my shop and dropping it off for a diagnosis. Too cold for me to be poking around and such hahah

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[2pointOh]

So I replaced the n205 and it seemed to fix the issue. Then after a quick drive, a slightly rough idle came back with a pending p0172. Figured I could drive to work with that, the cel for the p0172 came up while on the way. Then.. oil pressure light. Pulled onto a side street immediately, and turned it off. Tried to turn it over once just to see and it didn't want to so I stopped.

Fuck.

Tensioner just went I'm assuming?

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[Theiceman]

gee if only someone had warned you about that :)

yep , do not even attempt to start that car until they check that tensioner. likely top came off dumped oil pressure. if you are lucky you did not jump a tooth on the chain. you may have buggered it trying to restart it if your tensioner was off and your chain snapped. as soon as you see oil pressure light dip clutch , turn off engine and let it roll to a stop.

Let us know what they find.

[2pointOh]

gee if only someone had warned you about that :)

yep , do not even attempt to start that car until they check that tensioner. likely top came off dumped oil pressure. if you are lucky you did not jump a tooth on the chain.

Hahah I know I know, as soon as I saw it I was like shit he was spot on. Dealer is looking at it Monday hopefully. If it didn't skip timing, how bad is the fix?

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[Theiceman]

will if you took it to a stealer it will be bad ...
if I am right and its just tensioner it is tensioner, chain , gaskets , oil control rings, maybe phase adjuster as they wont fix it .. 1G maybe ? I'm not sure what US dealer rates are here they are crazy

if the chain snapped or you didn't shut it down in time and you hammered the valves . then car is practically a write off at dealer rates..

if first thing they do is try to start it without turning the crank a little and seeing if both cams are moving it could be bad news.

There is one more remote possibility it could be but I don't want to scare you .... if the oil pump seized or that balance shaft started to sieze ( more common ) then your oil pressure would have been low , so low it could not advance your cams as necessary via N205 ( its done with oil pressure ), then eventually your oil pressure light would come on .

Here is a thread on my experience which I think echoes your symptoms.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...that%27s+wrote

[2pointOh]

Oh man. Yeah to be honest, ditching the car at this point is definitely in the realm of possibility. I had to leave the car and get to work so my dad chose to take it to the dealer. If anything, I can get the diagnostic done there and if I want to fix it, tow it to the shop I've dealt with before for less.

But at this point.. anything over $500 starts to look like dead money in this car

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[Theiceman]

Man I'm sorry to hear that what year is it , how many miles on the car ?

An independent should be able to fix it up at a reasonable cost , don't give up on it !!!

its our Northern Winters though , makes it so you will give up on cars early. Mine died last February .. it was bloody freezing out ...

[2pointOh]

Man I'm sorry to hear that what year is it , how many miles on the car ?

An independent should be able to fix it up at a reasonable cost , don't give up on it !!!

its our Northern Winters though , makes it so you will give up on cars early. Mine died last February .. it was bloody freezing out ...

Yeah man. And it's not even too cold yet hahah. 06, 179,947 miles.

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[Theiceman]

yup that is within 10K of the mileage my tensioner gave out on my 06. Must be the extra forces put on the car from the extra HP of the "Red T" cars :)

PS if you scrap it out I need a set of floor mats lol

[2pointOh]

yup that is within 10K of the mileage my tensioner gave out on my 06. Must be the extra forces put on the car from the extra HP of the "Red T" cars :)

PS if you scrap it out I need a set of floor mats lol

Hahah exactly. And I've been tuned since 120k give or take.

And heard! I have a set of black weathertechs too haha

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[EvolutionArmory]

You should have followed the advice in post 2 and got the valve timing checked when the code first came up. It could have made this potentially a much less expensive repair.

[2pointOh]

You should have followed the advice in post 2 and got the valve timing checked when the code first came up. It could have made this potentially a much less expensive repair.

You're right, hindsights 20/20 haha. It just seemed there were some other easy things I could try first. But to be honest, from the time I posted, I only drove the car maybe 4 miles. It would have died on the way to my shop.

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[audiglenn]

For sure. If the n205 doesn't fix it and it's not the maf or anything, I'm driving to my shop and dropping it off for a diagnosis. Too cold for me to be poking around and such hahah

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Make sure the shop tests oil pressure. I was experiencing the same issues. My oil pump seized and I had to replace it along with a new chain tensioner. Most challenging task is is dropping and removing the oil pan. Although I have to fill the car with oil close to the full mark, I am no longer getting the P0011 code. Good luck.

[jason96r]

Same thing happened to my problem child. Ended up just going with new engine. If you're done I'm sure you have parts people will buy to offset. I'm watching for one you have in your sig

[2pointOh]

Same thing happened to my problem child. Ended up just going with new engine. If you're done I'm sure you have parts people will buy to offset. I'm watching for one you have in your sig

Theres a good chance that'll happen haha. What are you looking for? I'm not sure how much I'll be able to pull with the weather and "trading it in" if it comes to that

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[2pointOh]

Make sure the shop tests oil pressure. I was experiencing the same issues. My oil pump seized and I had to replace it along with a new chain tensioner. Most challenging task is is dropping and removing the oil pan. Although I have to fill the car with oil close to the full mark, I am no longer getting the P0011 code. Good luck.

Ah man if it comes to a pump I'll have to give her up

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[Theiceman]

You have not heard yet ??


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[tloft4]

You have not heard yet ??


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its a weekend also..

[2pointOh]

You have not heard yet ??


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its a weekend also..

Yeah, tomorrow most likely. Maybe Tuesday.

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[2pointOh]

So now the dealership is being weird. Got a call (finally) on friday. She tells me there's a code for running rich (no shit) and a code for the maf. And that's about all she said. So I then tell her if the maf is throwing a code that could be why it's running rich, and I ask about the oil pressure light and if any timing-related issues are present. She says no. So I ask if they can look into the oil situation because I can't just drive it without knowing why that came on. (She at that point said intermittent lights can be solved with a couple oil changes, like.. what..)

Get another call Saturday. Because it's running rough they can't get it to operating temp to monitor the oil. I ask if the tech cleaned the maf to see if that helps, she said no because she doesn't "want to run up the bill with guessing" and tells me they're having trouble diagnosing the issue because I have a test pipe with the lower o2 spacer and the computer can't figure anything out.

I'm like.. dumbfounded. It seems as though they don't even want my money. I guess I'm gonna go tomorrow and talk to someone, and clean the maf myself and see.

I guess the sorta good news is when they drove it into the shop (which also infuriates me because I told them the oil pressure light came on, why would they drive it?!) no warning came on besides the cel for running rich. Im not entirely sure what to do next

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[Theiceman]

Tough call.


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[2pointOh]

Tough call.


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It's just so strange they're not coming up with anything to try to move forward haha. Like tell me you have to rip the engine open, shit, something. If tomorrow doesn't get more productive I'm getting it towed somewhere else

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[2pointOh]

Next update. Cleaned the maf and didn't seem to help. Ran rough when started, I cleared the codes again and it ran more or less fine on cold start. Once it started to heat up and go towards closed loop A/F, it started running rougher again.

So now is this looking like an O2 problem that my tuning isn't throwing a code for? I'm gonna put a call into JHM and ask if that makes sense. Torque did show the O2 status as incomplete.

I idled for 20 mins carefully with no oil pressure light, so that's a bit of a mystery too.



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[Theiceman]

could the oil pressure light have been from car stalling out ? not enough idle to run oil pump ? you did say it came on after car was running really rough