S6 with Bose Audio Upgrade, lessons I learned.

[Joe'sS6]

My car is a 2016 S6 with Bose, MMI2 equipped. As everyone can attest, the Bose System is not good at all, so I begun a long audio upgrade process, that could have been done much faster.

Part 1. Ordered and installed the Chinese, replica B&O type, raising tweeters, a 10" JL Audio 10TW3-D4 300W Subwoofer, XD300/1v2 300 Amp and AudioControl LC2i. These did improve the sound but only marginally, there where still many songs that did not play right, some frequenciencies and instruments did not sound properly to me, somebody else might love it but I am too picky. My mistake, believing you can really improve on the Bose Amp, it has so much roll off and variable equalization that I have to modulate the Sub's volume all the time.

Part 2. After using it for a while and realizing there would not be any adjustmens to make it sound really fine, I decided to bite the bullet and make a FULL AUDIO UPGRADE removing the Bose Amp. For this setup I would remove all speakers and Bose amp, replacing them with the following:
a. Nav.TV Zen-V interface. Good equipment, I recommend it.
b. TwK-D8 JL Audio Digital Signal Processor.
c. XD700/5v2 JL Audio 700W ,5 Channel Amplifier.
d. C5-653 JL Audio 3 way component sepakers set for the front.
e. C5-650 JL Audio 2 way component sepakers set for the back.
f. 10TW3-D4 JL Audio 10" Subwoofer.

But, the install was not well made, I let the not so professional installer, mount the front 6.5 Midwoofers into the Bose baffles, bad mistake. He also left the Chinese raising Tweeters installed just in case it would sound right after tuning. The sound certainly improved a lot from the Bose+Sub Upgrade, but still even after tuning the DSP, there where many songs that did not play right, some frequenciencies and instruments did not sound properly. The Mids where mounted on the stock location without some back acoustic reflection prevention. I also learned that, to me since I like a well defined front stage, a single 300W 10" TW3 Sub and 300W Amp is not enough for this car, the cabin and trunk are too large for it to handle.

Part 3. I checked all the theads I could find on the subject, reconsidered the options and decided to find a real professional installer. The System was upgraded as follows:
1. Add a second 10" Subwoofer to fill in the cabin, even at lower volumes.
2. Add two JL Amps, XD300/1v2 for the second sub and a XD200/2v2 for the rear speaker sets.
3. Install the C5 front tweeters, remove the Chinese B&O knock offs.
4. Separate the 3 way front speakers sets, the Tweeters and Mids use one channel that passes thru the passive crossovers, the MidWoofers get their own channel with crossover duties left to the TwK-D8 DSP.
5. Install the 4" Mids directly on the door panel, not the door itself, therefore separating it from the metal and allowing the installation of antireflective acoustic material behind them (SoundSkin rings backing).
6. Remove the P.O.S. Bose baffles on the front woofers, install the Audi OME covers on the holes and sound proof it all.
7. Install SoundSkin rings on all speakers.

This work took one week to complete with a real Proffesional once I had all the materials ready. I just got the car back yesterday and it now does sound great, all frequenciencies and instruments do sound properly. I know it will be good this time around since the system doesn't fall on it's face now when tested, there is no wishing it will fix deficiencies with tuning.

Now on to do some DSP tuning during thanksgiving weekend.

I also learned that, since I can not stop improving things until I am fully satisfied, I should have planned it better from the get go, I could have saved a few dollars and time. Since tuning my car is my hobby, I do not complain, I enjoyed the process but how could I have known the Sub upgrade would not be enough...?

[gk1]

Car audio is such a subjective thing. What sounds abysmal to some is just fine for others. The Bose sounds fine compared to say an older Symphony radio. Is it befitting a $75k-$85k car, not really, and we see in the C8 Audi finally dropped the Bose for two B&O offerings. (I suspect more to do with licensing and $$$ rather than actual sound quality preference.)
Congrats on a major overhall I'm sure it does indeed sound fantastic. Can you share total cost, parts and install? Also do you have any comments on how the ANC system is working now or did you just completely disable it?

[subterFUSE]

Yeah, I always tell people to remove the Bose midbass enclosures and fabricate their own baffles to close up the hole, and then mount up to an 8" midbass in the door. That way you keep the Bose enclosure in pristine shape for time of resale, and you get the better performance of a proper installation of the aftermarket speakers.

Glad they got the install sorted out for you.


If you ever need any tuning tips, just let me know. ;)

[subterFUSE]

I also learned that, since I can not stop improving things until I am fully satisfied, I should have planned it better from the get go, I could have saved a few dollars and time. Since tuning my car is my hobbie, I do not complain, I enjoyed the process but how could I have knowin the Sub upgrade would not be enough...?

I have redone the stereo in my S6 at least 5 times in 5 years. That's just part of the hobby, and the learning process. ;)

[Joe'sS6]

Congrats on a major overhall I'm sure it does indeed sound fantastic. Can you share total cost, parts and install? Also do you have any comments on how the ANC system is working now or did you just completely disable it?

Thank you. And sure, cost was about 4,000 dollars for all of the equipment, installation + minor parts + sub boxes, was about 1,000 on top of that.

Here are some pictures:

Front door without the Bose baffle, outer skin soundproofed.
IMG-20181109-WA0030.jpeg

Front door with inner skin soundproofed, the hole is covered by the Audi OME part, also covered with SoundSkins Pro.
IMG-20181109-WA0028.jpeg

Rear door Tweeter installed with SoundSkin ring.
IMG-20181109-WA0032.jpeg

Front door Panel with 4" Mid mounted on it. These JL Audio C5 Mids have some removable mounting taps, without them, the speaker fit perfectly inside the door panel hole, they just had to seal it all around and put some lateral screws on the inside to prevent it from moving.
IMG-20181109-WA0044.jpeg

The same 4" Mid seen from the front, inside of the car.
IMG-20181109-WA0043.jpeg

My objective was sound quality, and tried to keep the car as stock looking and usefull as possible. Inside it you can not notice any changes. The equipments are all hidden either inside the rear left panel or in the spare tire well. The trunk space is still quite large and the Subs have a 15" gap in the middle, so I can use the sky pass thru or put a golf bag or similar in there.
IMG-20181114-WA0004.jpeg

[Joe'sS6]

Yeah, I always tell people to remove the Bose midbass enclosures and fabricate their own baffles to close up the hole, and then mount up to an 8" midbass in the door. That way you keep the Bose enclosure in pristine shape for time of resale, and you get the better performance of a proper installation of the aftermarket speakers.

Glad they got the install sorted out for you.


If you ever need any tuning tips, just let me know. ;)

Thanks subterFUSE, your posts and opinions are always very helpfull.

And YES PLEASE, let´s hear those tuning tips! I sure hope I can apply them properly. I have been using the Audiofrog Mic and following their tutorial, as recomended by OlyS6 in some post.

[OlyS6]

Nice work!

Check out on youtube Kyle Ragsdale's videos on tuning an SQ car, and get the free download of Room EQ Wizard (REW).

It is an excellent place to start. It's only single seat tuning with one microphone, (so not up to Subterfuse's lofty aims), but works extremely well.

It took me awhile to learn some of those same lessons, especially getting rid of the midbass enclosures entirely.

Have you considered putting nicer tweeters into the motorized mechanism of your B&O knock-offs? I finally got my B&O knock-off set- my aim is to try to take them apart and see if I can get high quality tweeters into the mechanisms. Could be a nice way to help elevate the soundstage without having to put tweeters in the A pillars.

[Joe'sS6]

Have you considered putting nicer tweeters into the motorized mechanism of your B&O knock-offs?

Thanks, and the knock-offs space is really small, my C5 teeeters are 3/4" and do not seem to fit, maybe if you can get some 1/2" tweeters, but to me it is not worth it to separate the 3 way set that was made to work in sync.

I hear no difference in soundstage elevation between the knock-offs and the stock installation. But I used some angled mounts, that where 3D printed, the desing is from the thread in the Audio forum that you sent, at least I think it was you or may be subterFUSE. I can not find the link, do you have it? My son 3D printed these angled mounts at his university, the cost there was only about 10 bucks for the pair.

[OlyS6]

Thanks, and the knock-offs space is really small, my C5 teeeters are 3/4" and do not seem to fit, maybe if you can get some 1/2" tweeters, but to me it is not worth it to separate the 3 way set that was made to work in sync.

I hear no difference in soundstage elevation between the knock-offs and the stock installation. But I used some angled mounts, that where 3D printed, the desing is from the thread in the Audio forum that you sent, at least I think it was you or may be subterFUSE. I can not find the link, do you have it? My son 3D printed these angled mounts at his university, the cost there was only about 10 bucks for the pair.

Just search for S4Per. He designed the angled 3D mounts. I’m also currently running my tweeters with the angled 3D mounts, although word of warning: these mounts can distort badly if you leave your car in the hot sun without a screen in your windshield, as I did. I simply had my son print another set, but still annoying.


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[OlyS6]

I plan on taking apart the motorized mechanism today- I’ll report back with findings.


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[OlyS6]

Sadly, there is absolutely no way to put a high quality 1” tweeter into the motorized mechanism- it can be taken apart ok, but as has been mentioned, the included tweeter is super tiny- the housing diameter itself is only about an inch- I was hoping to simply dremel the housing a bit, but it’s simply not big enough. Oh well. I suppose it might be worth looking into how to source the actual B&O tweeters.


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[Joe'sS6]

Just search for S4Per. He designed the angled 3D mounts. I’m also currently running my tweeters with the angled 3D mounts, although word of warning: these mounts can distort badly if you leave your car in the hot sun without a screen in your windshield, as I did. I simply had my son print another set, but still annoying.


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Thanks OlyS6, this is S4Per´s audio thread on the diymobileaudio forum, in case someone is interested: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...y-install.html

And this is the file for the 3D printed Tweeter mounts he designed:https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...ownload%20here

[Cayo71]

Thank you. And sure, cost was about 4,000 dollars for all of the equipment, installation + minor parts + sub boxes, was about 1,000 on top of that.

Here are some pictures:

Front door without the Bose baffle, outer skin soundproofed.
IMG-20181109-WA0030.jpeg

Front door with inner skin soundproofed, the hole is covered by the Audi OME part, also covered with SoundSkins Pro.
IMG-20181109-WA0028.jpeg

Rear door Tweeter installed with SoundSkin ring.
IMG-20181109-WA0032.jpeg

Front door Panel with 4" Mid mounted on it. These JL Audio C5 Mids have some removable mounting taps, without them, the speaker fit perfectly inside the door panel hole, they just had to seal it all around and put some lateral screws on the inside to prevent it from moving.
IMG-20181109-WA0044.jpeg

The same 4" Mid seen from the front, inside of the car.
IMG-20181109-WA0043.jpeg

My objective was sound quality, and tried to keep the car as stock looking and usefull as possible. Inside it you can not notice any changes. The equipments are all hidden either inside the rear left panel or in the spare tire well. The trunk space is still quite large and the Subs have a 15" gap in the middle, so I can use the sky pass thru or put a golf bag or similar in there.
IMG-20181114-WA0004.jpeg

Bringing this post back to life as it has experienced contributors in the Audi A6 Car Audio upgrade club. I'm beginning to plan my own upgrade, 2014 A6 Prestige TDI w/BOSE. I already learned that MoBridge is the way to go to ditch the Bose amp and install new amps. I also learned that a DSP goes in between the Mobridge and whatever amps I'm going to use. Next questions are what size components drop into the front doors and dash twitter? By looking at your build you removed the Bose enclosure and added and Audi OME part, what is that and where can I source it? For the rear doors what size components and what modifications to the doors are required? and last for now, did you reuse the factory wiring going from the BOSE amp to each speaker? I'm inclined to do that for simplicity knowing the potential drawbacks.

Thanks!

[Joe'sS6]

Bringing this post back to life as it has experienced contributors in the Audi A6 Car Audio upgrade club. I'm beginning to plan my own upgrade, 2014 A6 Prestige TDI w/BOSE. I already learned that MoBridge is the way to go to ditch the Bose amp and install new amps. I also learned that a DSP goes in between the Mobridge and whatever amps I'm going to use. Next questions are what size components drop into the front doors and dash twitter? By looking at your build you removed the Bose enclosure and added and Audi OME part, what is that and where can I source it? For the rear doors what size components and what modifications to the doors are required? and last for now, did you reuse the factory wiring going from the BOSE amp to each speaker? I'm inclined to do that for simplicity knowing the potential drawbacks.

Thanks!

Hey, have fun modding your A6´s Audio, it sure does need it, IMHO.

The original Bose System sizes are maybe 4"MW, 2" Mid and 1/2" Tws, but there is much more room in there for larger speakers. The Component Speaker sizes I have up front are 6.5" MWs, 4" MIDs and 3/4" TWs, but the front doors can even fit 8" MWs. 1" TWs do also fit in the dashboard, no problem about that. My rear doors have 6.5" MWs and 3/4" TWs. Both F and R use JL Audio C5 Speakers, 653 and 650 Sets.

About the speaker housings, the Original Bose system has baffled enclosures in the front doors, these should be removed because they will not funcition properly with any other speaker than the Bose MWs. When you remove them, there is a large hole left in the door, and you need to cover that up so the acoustic energy from your new speakers is not lost, the base Audio system in the A6 already has these covers, since these are OME you can get them at AudiUSAParts.com or else, the part numbers are 4G0-837-103-B and 4G0-837-104-B they cost about $50 Dolars each.

The wiring was all made by tapping into the Bose Amps output connector factory wiring, that is correct for all the speakers but the subs that have new wiring. It was worked just fine but PRO audio systems rewire evething, that is a LOT of additional work that most likely will not make a difference for a non competition Audiofile set up.

[Cayo71]

Thank you Joe! That's the kind of information I was looking for. I like your idea of two independent sub boxes. Are they pre-made or custom made? I want also to retain the original appearance and trunk space as much as I can.
For the ones who are using Mobridge/DSP/Amp, are you controlling the volume with the OEM controls or via remotely mounted volume control to avoid the variable equalization imposed by the system? I ask the question because I don't know if the factory variable equalization is done by the Bose AMP or by the head unit before the signal gets amplified by the Bose amp.

[Joe'sS6]

Thank you Joe! That's the kind of information I was looking for. I like your idea of two independent sub boxes. Are they pre-made or custom made? I want also to retain the original appearance and trunk space as much as I can.
For the ones who are using Mobridge/DSP/Amp, are you controlling the volume with the OEM controls or via remotely mounted volume control to avoid the variable equalization imposed by the system? I ask the question because I don't know if the factory variable equalization is done by the Bose AMP or by the head unit before the signal gets amplified by the Bose amp.

My sub boxes are custom made, I got two JL Audio 10TW3-D4 10" Subwoofers because of the small enclousure volume requirements and good output. I tought about building just one box for both SWs but decided for twin smaller boxes in order to keep an open space in the center of the trunk, therefore still being able to store long items thru the sky pass or folding the rear seat backrest.

If you get the Mobrige, you can control de volume from the headunit's OEM controls, the variable equalization is in fact done by the Bose Amp., so since this will be removed, there is no more variable equalization to mess with your music listenig delight. In my C7.5 everything integrated perfectly, the parking sensors and other chimes and bells sound just normal.

[Cayo71]

Thank you Joe!

[SSRacer]

Great post!

>5. Install the 4" Mids directly on the door panel, not the door itself, therefore separating it from the metal and allowing the installation of antireflective acoustic material behind them (SoundSkin rings backing).

How deep of a speaker would you estimate would fit in that location -or how much spare room did you have behind the JL you installed there?

[OlyS6]

Agree that the benefits of the Mobridge i
Are to retain all of the MMI functionality for voice and NAV, yet get rid of the crappy ORM amp and the weird factory equalization. Some other considerations are that the factory positions of some of the speakers are not ideal. If able, having the mids and tweets in pods at the A pillars provides a much better sound stage. The advice on the woofers is great, but it would be even better to have the woofers in the kick panels if you know a good fabricator.


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[SSRacer]

No question the Zen Nav V will be going in (already installed an AudioFrog GB10D2 and while it sounds great, the timing of it is delayed slightly).

I'm strongly considering the A pillar mod, but was also considering the AF GB60/40/10 set up and wanted to see if the 4" was even possible at the stock location.

[Audisthesia]

Going to ask this question hear, as clearly you guys have in depth knowledge of the c7.5 platform when it comes to audio. I'm trying to add a powered sub enclosure to improve the low end as we all know the bose sub is worthless in these cars. (Yes I realize this isn't the best option, but at this point I'm not willing to drop several grand to eliminate the bose amp, etc) When looking at my bose sub, the wiring harness has 3 wires going to the sub. I'm assuming ground and left and right? Seems weird to me since there really is no left and right it's a single sub. I found subterfuge wiring diagram for c7 bose speaker system, but I can't find a diagram for the c7.5 bose sp3akers

[Optimus247]

I know this is a really old thread ...

I would like this info also ...

I want to just add a powered sub ... (I know) but, just wanted a wiring diagram (c7.5) for the Bose amp connector to tap in a AudioControl LC2i ...

[Mark.in.tulsa]

I know this is a really old thread ...

I would like this info also ...

I want to just add a powered sub ... (I know) but, just wanted a wiring diagram (c7.5) for the Bose amp connector to tap in a AudioControl LC2i ...

I just disconnected the wiring from the sub. Then cut off the connector and wired into that. But my sub was in the rear deck in my A6 which made it easy to get to. Not sure where the s6 Sub is.

[caelric]

I just disconnected the wiring from the sub. Then cut off the connector and wired into that. But my sub was in the rear deck in my A6 which made it easy to get to. Not sure where the s6 Sub is.

also in the rear deck, but people have said it's a pain to get to. haven't tried it yet myself.

[Botbasher]

also in the rear deck, but people have said it's a pain to get to. haven't tried it yet myself.

It's simple... but not easy. You have to pull the side trims. Then pull the rear deck. Sun, heat and time makes all these fragile and prone to breakage.

If you have a rear sunshade, it's even more delicate.

After that, it's simply build a ring (most 10s are too small and 12s are too big) and install your speaker. It's suggested to put a layer of Dynamat down to eliminate resonances. Remember to correct the phase on the speaker. It's downward firing, so if you install it basket down, you'll need to reverse the polarity on the leads.

This is for the A4/A5 install, but it's generally applicable to the C7 process. https://guides.brit.co/guides/audi-a...woofer-upgrade

I picked up one of the slimline JL Audio subs for my install. JL Audio 10TW3-D4 It's only a bit over 3" in depth so much less intrusion into the trunk than this DIY shows!

Cheers,

KS

[caelric]

It's simple... but not easy. You have to pull the side trims. Then pull the rear deck. Sun, heat and time makes all these fragile and prone to breakage.

If you have a rear sunshade, it's even more delicate.

After that, it's simply build a ring (most 10s are too small and 12s are too big) and install your speaker. It's suggested to put a layer of Dynamat down to eliminate resonances. Remember to correct the phase on the speaker. It's downward firing, so if you install it basket down, you'll need to reverse the polarity on the leads.

This is for the A4/A5 install, but it's generally applicable to the C7 process. https://guides.brit.co/guides/audi-a...woofer-upgrade

I picked up one of the slimline JL Audio subs for my install. JL Audio 10TW3-D4 It's only a bit over 3" in depth so much less intrusion into the trunk than this DIY shows!

Cheers,

KS

thanks! i was looking at this Focal shallow depth sub One of these days, i will dedicate a weekend to putting all this together

[Botbasher]

thanks! i was looking at this Focal shallow depth sub One of these days, i will dedicate a weekend to putting all this together

I saw that one while looking for option. I didn't like how they rated it for sensitivity using Voltage over the standard Watt and it's specs lean more toward mid-bass than a sub with over 100w of power handling ability given up to the JL.

The smaller mounting hole worried me too. 1/4 lost around the edge meant that an insert might be needed and that could push the sub into the rear deck covering.

If you are upgrading the amp at the same time this won't matter, but I used the DVC to get 8ohms, more in line with the factory sub. If that wasn't enough (and it never is!!) then I can go 2ohm and get a LOT more umph out of the amp I'll use (old school Orion Red 50w bridged capable of almost 800w at 0.5ohm!).

I've got a rear sunscreen, so I have been sitting on the parts for a while now. Let me know if you do this and how it goes... might have to kick myself into gear for it now that I have the Android CarPlay which makes the factory sound pale by comparison! Needs more bass!!!

Cheers,

KS

[caelric]

I saw that one while looking for option. I didn't like how they rated it for sensitivity using Voltage over the standard Watt and it's specs lean more toward mid-bass than a sub with over 100w of power handling ability given up to the JL.

The smaller mounting hole worried me too. 1/4 lost around the edge meant that an insert might be needed and that could push the sub into the rear deck covering.

If you are upgrading the amp at the same time this won't matter, but I used the DVC to get 8ohms, more in line with the factory sub. If that wasn't enough (and it never is!!) then I can go 2ohm and get a LOT more umph out of the amp I'll use (old school Orion Red 50w bridged capable of almost 800w at 0.5ohm!).

I've got a rear sunscreen, so I have been sitting on the parts for a while now. Let me know if you do this and how it goes... might have to kick myself into gear for it now that I have the Android CarPlay which makes the factory sound pale by comparison! Needs more bass!!!

Cheers,

KS

makes sense, thanks! and i do have the rear sunscreen, so that will add in complexity