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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings JLCampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399482
    My Garage
    2005 Audi allroad 2.7t, 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230, 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Arseload of misfires

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    Hey guys, I know this is a tired topic. And I have scanned this forum, audiworld, audiforums and quattroworld with the same results: no collusion other than, that's how 2.7T's are...

    Yesterday while driving home, out of the blue, the car just started misfiring. CEL came on flashing, and I pulled over. Used my Scantool and Torque to see what the hell was up and found that P300 Misfire detected, P301 Cyl 1, P302 Cyl 2 and P305 Cyl 5 misfires. I figured I'd make it the 1.5 miles home and started it up. It idles rough, but smoothed out above 2K rpm.

    When I got home I put my VCDS on it and took a reading. Same results, but noting else. I know it is probably the coil packs, and I'll order replacements. But, I literally just replaced them all back in February; as well as new plugs.

    I have never had a car where half the coil packs will go out at the same time. Especially if they are only 10 months old!

    So, my question is: Is there something upstream of the coils that could be causing this? (and please don't say the ICM's, because it's a BEL, they are in the coils) Is it normal to pay $200+ for coil packs and plugs, just to have them last 10 months on the 2.7T?
    Now that this is going to be the only car I have available to me (we moved into a place with only one parking spot, so my wife's car is in storage with my CL600), do I have to plan for this kind of thing? Keep a set of spare coil packs on hand?

    Thanks in advance
    Current Daily: 2005 Audi allroad 2.7t
    Wife's Car: 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230
    GT Car: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600

  2. #2
    Active Member One Ring S/RConcepts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 10 2018
    AZ Member #
    412301
    Location
    Illinois

    In my experience, when there's multiple misfires like this out of the blue that seem to smooth out above idle, the very first thing I check is the cam chain tensioners and their shoes. You can pop the valve covers off or use a stethoscope to listen for excessive chatter, but I'd make sure to check them first before delving into the ignition system. If there does end up being trouble with the tensioners, hopefully you can catch it early and avoid valvetrain damage.

    Also, if you haven't already replaced them or if it's been awhile since you have, you should check the timing belt and components as well.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings JLCampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399482
    My Garage
    2005 Audi allroad 2.7t, 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230, 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Thanks for that, I will give it a look. Quickly looking back though the PO records, the timing belt was last done back in '13 at 75K. It has 106K now. No mention of the cam chain tensioners in the notes.
    Current Daily: 2005 Audi allroad 2.7t
    Wife's Car: 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230
    GT Car: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings PaperToast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 29 2009
    AZ Member #
    41811
    My Garage
    Quadzilla
    Location
    Longmont, CO

    the chain tensioners rarely go out, i have almost 250k on mine, and they are original
    something to try is move the packs from the offending cylinders to the others and see if the misfires move
    if it does . . . there ya go

    what octane/brand gas do you use?
    ive had that cause ignition issues in the past
    Rockin' the Rockies
    '01 allroad, 240k woot woot, still boosting on original turbos and tippy, slightly more modified. . .

    Scotty@Advanced, "Push it off a cliff, when it hits the ground you should have a few thousand horsepower available for a brief second."

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings JLCampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399482
    My Garage
    2005 Audi allroad 2.7t, 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230, 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    I exclusively fill up at Shell, and only with 93; it's the highest we can get at the pump here is good ole Washington. That being said, I did fill up at a location I've never been to this tank...
    Used to use Mobil exclusively, but that was back in California; ain't got none of them here.
    Current Daily: 2005 Audi allroad 2.7t
    Wife's Car: 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230
    GT Car: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    May 09 2012
    AZ Member #
    93306
    My Garage
    08 A4 Avant, 05 Silver S4 2.7t swap
    Location
    Virginia

    I had a MAP sensor go bad and produce these same symptoms. Multiple misfires across multiple cylinders. I doubt your coils are bad given how new they are. Move them around and see if the misfires follow.


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  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings JLCampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399482
    My Garage
    2005 Audi allroad 2.7t, 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230, 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    I think PaperToast hit on it. I drove to the auto parts store and found some "Gas Treatment" additive. Added it, let it sit for a bit, then drove it. It's not back to normal, but it is better. Less misfires, some power back, but still hesitates and wants to die at stop lights.
    It's at 3/4 of a tank now. I'll wait until it gets to 1/2 tank, then add some known good gas from the station I usually go to.

    I pulled a few more codes as well: one for system is to lean, and Evap having errors.

    I hope this tank of bad gas doesn't do any damage on the way though.
    Current Daily: 2005 Audi allroad 2.7t
    Wife's Car: 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230
    GT Car: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Sep 11 2009
    AZ Member #
    47633
    Location
    NE

    When misfires occur it might be due to two issues:

    1) your ignition system has issues but that unlikely when more than one cylinder is involved or when it is spread on both side of engine (eg. bank 1 is 1,2,3 and bank 2 is 4,5,6)
    2) fuel mixture is way off

    Let's talk about #2. What could be wrong there? Given that you have "system too lean" code, it is obvious that the car suddenly developed inability to properly measure air. It can be caused by large leaks in intake tract (check all boost hoses and most importantly throttle boot (they like to rip in half at the bottom) or faulty sensors (MAF, MAP or O2 itself).

    Check engine measuring block 032 (long term fueling trims, if it is anything above +- few % then your car is trying to compnsate for leaks already) and block 093 to see if aforementioned camshaft lifters are working ok, value of +-6 degrees is a I think acceptable.

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    May 20 2012
    AZ Member #
    93852
    Location
    Centreville

    Had this issue with bank 2, cylinder 4,5,6. My process of elimination went as such:

    1) Swapped coils to different cylinders. Had 12 of them that I know were good. Nope.
    2) Changed spark plugs. Tripled checked gaps and so on. Nope.
    3) Did 2.0 coil conversion. Tripled checked wiring and so on. Nope.
    4) Changed the camshaft position sensor for that bank. YES!

    Well for me it was the camshaft position sensor. Along with doing all of the above.

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings JLCampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399482
    My Garage
    2005 Audi allroad 2.7t, 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230, 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Yeah, I'm gonna go with fuel mixture issues. Ran even better today, MPG is still down and it smells like it running rich, but it at least had way fewer misfires.

    I'll get some good gas in it tomorrow, not just additive enhanced, and see if it clears up.

    Quote Originally Posted by daddywgn View Post
    4) Changed the camshaft position sensor for that bank. YES!

    Well for me it was the camshaft position sensor. Along with doing all of the above.
    I was thinking this as well, but it was across the banks, and even different cylinders on different days.

    Poking around a bit did uncover a split vacuum line of the drivers side EGR actuator. And a leaking cam seal on the pass rear side of the head. So, at least I found something to do.
    Also, P0154 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity has popped up in the last few days. Not sure if I bumped the connector loose while testing, or if it's a sensor failure. Gotta look into that too...
    Current Daily: 2005 Audi allroad 2.7t
    Wife's Car: 1997 Mercedes-Benz C230
    GT Car: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Sep 11 2009
    AZ Member #
    47633
    Location
    NE

    Quote Originally Posted by JLCampbell View Post
    Yeah, I'm gonna go with fuel mixture issues. Ran even better today, MPG is still down and it smells like it running rich, but it at least had way fewer misfires.

    I'll get some good gas in it tomorrow, not just additive enhanced, and see if it clears up.



    I was thinking this as well, but it was across the banks, and even different cylinders on different days.

    Poking around a bit did uncover a split vacuum line of the drivers side EGR actuator. And a leaking cam seal on the pass rear side of the head. So, at least I found something to do.
    Also, P0154 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity has popped up in the last few days. Not sure if I bumped the connector loose while testing, or if it's a sensor failure. Gotta look into that too...
    the O2 sensor code would do it... Check for burnt/torn/shorted wire between plug and sensor itself. Check ECU fuses as shorted O2 wire will blow a fuse and ECU will not see the O2 (both bank!) oscillate because well, the power is not supplied to the O2 sensors.



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