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  1. #1
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Master clutch cylinder - Install

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    Hi,

    Im at a dead end...

    Ive blown 1 Sachs (6 months old). and 3 (duralast) clutch cylinders in the last week.

    Symptom of Sachs. pedal got very hard at the bottom of travel, couldnít engage the starter switch. Pressed a little harder and POP!

    All 3 Duralasts ended up Hyperextended to the top of the pedal travel. the last one got extremely hard at the bottom of travel and then hyperextended ...

    I opened the Slave and checked that itís not obstructed and it isnít, the Slave is good Ive removed and inspected.


    óó I think Iím bleeding improperly and causing air to be trapped and this is my root cause for the failures.

    Can anyone give me master clutch cylinder bleed instructions their version OR better yet from the Bentley manual?

    My last OEM replacement and hose arrives on Tuesday and after this IDK what Iím going to do.


    Thanks!



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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
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    Nov 16 2010
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    2kS4, 84gli, 84caddy dsl
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    Post pic of popped master, never seen this one before.


    For bleeding, just gravity bleed, pump til you have a pedal, then drive it around the block. Should be good by the time you get back.
    The stock system is pretty much self bleeding if the lines arent jacked up.
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesnít move and it should - WD40.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Perth Western Australia

    Have you only had this issue since replacing your clutch and flywheel?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zillarob View Post
    Post pic of popped master, never seen this one before.


    For bleeding, just gravity bleed, pump til you have a pedal, then drive it around the block. Should be good by the time you get back.
    The stock system is pretty much self bleeding if the lines arent jacked up.
    So install clutch master cylinder.
    Attach lines,
    Open Slave bleeder,
    Wait for fluid to travel from res to Slave and drip.
    Close the valve.

    The pedal will travel to the floor and stay until fluid hits the bleeder... then close and pump?

    Repeat until I have pedal...

    Is that about right?


    Pics tomorrow...




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  5. #5
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perth_RS4 View Post
    Have you only had this issue since replacing your clutch and flywheel?
    Clutch and flywheel have 15k on them.




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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
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    2kS4, 84gli, 84caddy dsl
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    Needz moar pics yo

    Install
    Open slave bleeder (make sure fluid in res and pedal up)
    When fluid runs out decently, close bleeder
    Pump pedal until it comes to you (prob a dozen times or so)
    Go drive around. Pump the pedal every now and again.

    The only one Ive done that this did not work on was one that somebody had the slave over the psteer line.
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesnít move and it should - WD40.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zillarob View Post
    Needz moar pics yo

    Install
    Open slave bleeder (make sure fluid in res and pedal up)
    When fluid runs out decently, close bleeder
    Pump pedal until it comes to you (prob a dozen times or so)
    Go drive around. Pump the pedal every now and again.

    The only one Ive done that this did not work on was one that somebody had the slave over the psteer line.

    Sachs
    IMG_7768.jpg

    IMG_7769.jpg

    IMG_7770.jpg

    Duralast
    IMG_7771.JPG

    IMG_7772.jpg



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  8. #8
    Established Member Three Rings ReggieNoble's Avatar
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    Dec 17 2016
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    Fl

    Have you replaced you master cylinder to slave line? It could be deteriorated and clogged.

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Audizine mobile app

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Home of the mighty beaver

    Worth checking. The idiot that last installed mine routed it wrong and it ended up melting.. gave me all sorts of crazy issues leading up to it rupturing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReggieNoble View Post
    Have you replaced you master cylinder to slave line? It could be deteriorated and clogged.

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Audizine mobile app
    So I took that into consideration.

    I opened the Slave valve, blew in using my lungs, and was able to blow out very easy.

    I also removed the Slave and checked condition, itís USP Metal unit... itís in perfectly working condition.

    I think Iím creating an air pocket an blowing up these units.

    Iím installing a new USP Slave and OEM Master tomorrow....

    This shit will work or Iíll blow it all up again.


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  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Mar 12 2012
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    2011 Audi Q5 2.0t (Wifeys Ride) 2003 Audi A4 1.8t (spare)
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    Only other thing I can think off is that you are using a longer throw out bearing. In my case it was too short. I was using the OEM on a Southbend clutch stage 3 which calls for a longer one. What if by chance you are using a longer one when you should he using OEM length? The clutch will engage before the sensor but to engage the sensor you have to press harder causing it to burst? You would be able to rule this out if you used a new throw out bearing or one that came with your clutch.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by luciddream View Post
    Only other thing I can think off is that you are using a longer throw out bearing. In my case it was too short. I was using the OEM on a Southbend clutch stage 3 which calls for a longer one. What if by chance you are using a longer one when you should he using OEM length? The clutch will engage before the sensor but to engage the sensor you have to press harder causing it to burst? You would be able to rule this out if you used a new throw out bearing or one that came with your clutch.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app
    This was my initial thought. I had my master cylinder which was OEM blow apart. Pedal went rock hard towards the bottom of travel. I have a braided steel line with the UPS metal slave. Only part to give was the plastic master. The reason mine blew was the kit i installed had a different flywheel height and would have needed a longer throw out bearing to disengage the clutch.
    Did you recently replace your TOB?

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
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    2kS4, 84gli, 84caddy dsl
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    You sure the thing was installed properly?
    Im guessing something was not lined up, and the rod going in crooked is what is breaking it.

    Popping slaves is one thing, but the master is crazy. Something not right up there.

    And you can unplug the switch and stuff one of the small blade fuses in there to bypass it.
    Just be careful doing this because the car can take off on you if you start it in gear without pushing the clutch.
    This can be a handy thing in emergencies also though. If it dies in the middle of the road, you can drive it on the starter to get out of harms way.
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesnít move and it should - WD40.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Master clutch cylinder - Install

    OEM Slave was installed 6 month ago.

    No other Slave/ obstruction makes sense.


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    Last edited by JustManson; 11-11-2018 at 10:26 AM.

  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Denmark

    Is it a SAC clutch?

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    A place between here and there

    I use a Motive power bleeder.
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  17. #17
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokh View Post
    Is it a SAC clutch?
    No, AMD stage 3+

    Itís been in service for 15k or so...


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  18. #18
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    There really isnít a wrong way to install the CMC.

    Two bolts, snake the hose through, attach the pin to the pedal, bleed.

    Itís a fixed position so there is no room to make adjustments.


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  19. #19
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    BUT I do agree. Something is wrong! They shouldnít pop...


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  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    What happened leading up to the master blowing the first time? Any maintenance? Hard driving? Change in peddle feel? Climate? Upgrades?

  21. #21
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Unfortunately if you keep breaking slaves, you might need to pull it apart and see what's going on inside where the clutch lives.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Audizine mobile app

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustManson View Post
    No, AMD stage 3+
    So...., a SAC clutch.

    it problably dont make any diference

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings zillarob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perth_RS4 View Post
    What happened leading up to the master blowing the first time? Any maintenance? Hard driving? Change in peddle feel? Climate? Upgrades?
    Said he had to stomp the clutch hard to trip the switch and start it.

    I'd start by bypassing the switch so you dont have to stomp it to get it to start. Just be mindful of what I said earlier about doing this.

    That metal slave is prob making it difficult to tell whether it is in the bellhousing, or elsewhere.
    When the plastic one pops, you kinda know its down there. The metal wont do that, and the next weakest link becomes the new symptom. It could even be part of the prob if the rod isnt the proper length.

    Amd stuff is pretty much oem so wouldnt think its a prob with the clutch.

    The plastic wedge/pivot thing on the other end of the throwout lever breaking will cause the slave to over extend.
    If you listen, you can sometimes hear the throw out arm rubbing the pressure plate in there when somebody steps on it.

    Stomping the pedal to the floor because of a poorly adjusted switch is prob hard on that plastic thing also.
    If the fingers come all the way down to the stop ring on the pp, that plastic thing is going to see a whole lot more force than it normally would.

    I think you said you drilled the hole to reset the sac, can you maybe see if the pivot is in good shape through there?
    There are only 2 things needed to make an Audi work properly - Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't - Duct tape. If it doesnít move and it should - WD40.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    So, here the full run down...

    Havenít had any issues since I installed the AMD and USP slave about 15k ago or just about spring time.

    Iíve been hard driving lately now that everything is broken in and Iím comfortable and have confidence in the car.

    - the issue after installing the new OEM (Sachs) Master Clutch Cylinder and replacing the Slave today with a New USP (just because).

    Gravity Bled the system, closed the system went to check the pedal. And The pedal is ROCK hard has almost no movement.

    Open the bleeder pedal goes to the floor, close the bleeder pull the pedal up, press down, rock hard again.

    Pulled the Slave out to check alignment and rechecked...

    Stuck a screw driver into the fork plate to see if I can move the fork.... itís frozen!

    The issue must be the clutch, TB, bent fork, broken spring or Something like that...

    Time to pull the trans. Damit.







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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Yuppie's Avatar
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    Had the same issue with one of my S4s, I popped two master cylinders within 1k miles. Removed the clutch setup (RS4) and saw the fork on the pressure plate had been damaged. Replaced the clutch setup/flywheel and no issues.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Four Rings JustManson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie View Post
    Had the same issue with one of my S4s, I popped two master cylinders within 1k miles. Removed the clutch setup (RS4) and saw the fork on the pressure plate had been damaged. Replaced the clutch setup/flywheel and no issues.
    Sounds about right!

    Timing sucks as usual.

    I Appreciate everyoneís comments and insight.


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