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  1. #161
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    And this is pretty much what I told you we are doing.



    I am not really sure what kind of conclusions you can make about fueling if you don't have control of your boost.

    I am not sure what you are trying to prove but here with this thread here I am just sharing the progress of this turbo upgrade for the benefit of everyone interested

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    Great you are logging timing, but are you logging the timing that is being pulled? There has to be some being pulled with the larger turbo and increased boost given this is a piggy back tune that doesn't have full control of the ECU.

    The conclusion I'm making about fueling is that you don't add boost unless the fuel is there.

    We understand you are sharing the progress of the 35R turbo upgrade with the JB4 but want to understand the data behind it. A 1000hp car may feel good for a few pulls before it blows, I'm trying to understand if this setup is within safe operating parameters or not. You have not provided any data that would state it is or not.

  2. #162
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverBoosted View Post
    Great you are logging timing, but are you logging the timing that is being pulled? There has to be some being pulled with the larger turbo and increased boost given this is a piggy back tune that doesn't have full control of the ECU.

    The conclusion I'm making about fueling is that you don't add boost unless the fuel is there.

    We understand you are sharing the progress of the 35R turbo upgrade with the JB4 but want to understand the data behind it. A 1000hp car may feel good for a few pulls before it blows, I'm trying to understand if this setup is within safe operating parameters or not. You have not provided any data that would state it is or not.
    We both agree that you don't add boost if fuel is not there, I never said otherwise. Like I told you, there is no timing pull at all. Like it's been discussed before, the ecu does a great job with timing adaptation and knock prevention.

    I have been driving and logging the car very hard at a level of boost that we know is safe. Do we want more? Yes we want more and this is what we are working on within the possibilties of the jb4. We logs, bms improves their firmware and relog and so on. That process takes time and I am not going to post logs when nothing is final, I don't want to lead anyone to false and premature conclusions.

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  3. #163
    Active Member One Ring
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    I just want to say thank you to you, mtlquattro. For all the time you've spent informing us about the progress you've made with the new turbo. I'm just doing supporting mods and the JB4 for now, but the hybrid is definitely in the near future for me. I love the oxygen increase at all boost levels, keeping the efficiency high and not having to beat up the air too much. Please don't limit your posts because of people like OverBoosted, who demand information and explanations and don't clearly read what you post. I appreciate everything you're doing and can see you're not pushing people to be dangerously experimental with their own vehicles. Again, thanks for keeping us informed and keep up the good work!

  4. #164
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverBoosted View Post
    Great you are logging timing, but are you logging the timing that is being pulled? There has to be some being pulled with the larger turbo and increased boost given this is a piggy back tune that doesn't have full control of the ECU.
    The JB4 logs the timing adaption. Not sure what kind of cars you accustomed to reading and understanding how the ECU works but on the S4 the ECU is very dynamic. With the higher boost levels the exhaust gas temperature rises. The ECU has a AFR to EGT map and it enriches the mixture to bring EGT back to what it considers normal. In turn the richer mixture allows for the stock timing chart to be good for the boost so you wont necessarily have timing adaption.

    Here is a quick log showing a timing adaption occurring with the ECU dropping the over all timing. In this case we where testing what the ECU does when meth fails. (our fail safe board which would have cut boost was deactivated).

  5. #165
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumped58 View Post
    I just want to say thank you to you, mtlquattro. For all the time you've spent informing us about the progress you've made with the new turbo. I'm just doing supporting mods and the JB4 for now, but the hybrid is definitely in the near future for me. I love the oxygen increase at all boost levels, keeping the efficiency high and not having to beat up the air too much. Please don't limit your posts because of people like OverBoosted, who demand information and explanations and don't clearly read what you post. I appreciate everything you're doing and can see you're not pushing people to be dangerously experimental with their own vehicles. Again, thanks for keeping us informed and keep up the good work!
    Thanks man. It's really appreciated that you took the time to make that post. I will continue to document the progress and some challenging opinions were to be expected when I made this thread. This turbo upgrade is still in constant evolution so should be this thread. I am really confident that with the help of the BMS and Eurocode guys this will prove to be a very powerful and reliable setup, no doubt about it. It's not that I don't want to post my logs is that right now, things are moving so fast that posting logs at every stages of evolution and having to justify them seems counter productive adding that english is not my first language. We all know the basic challenges and risks involved in this kind of project, some may disagree with the approach but ultimately the main goal is to make the b9 super fast.

    And thanks George, your interventions are always filled with helpful informations!

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  6. #166
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quick update, I finally went ahead and finished my wmi install. I took the effort to cover all the wiring and the meth line with black braided nylon hose. I also covered the brass fittings with black shrink wrap for a very discrete look. I could not stant the look of the plumbing under the hood.

    I have not driven the car much since but will come back for more details and first impressions! I am currently testing an absolute target map of 27psi...

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    2018 S5 IBIS WHITE COUPE
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  7. #167
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Thanks man. It's really appreciated that you took the time to make that post. I will continue to document the progress and some challenging opinions were to be expected when I made this thread. This turbo upgrade is still in constant evolution so should be this thread. I am really confident that with the help of the BMS and Eurocode guys this will prove to be a very powerful and reliable setup, no doubt about it. It's not that I don't want to post my logs is that right now, things are moving so fast that posting logs at every stages of evolution and having to justify them seems counter productive adding that english is not my first language. We all know the basic challenges and risks involved in this kind of project, some may disagree with the approach but ultimately the main goal is to make the b9 super fast.

    And thanks George, your interventions are always filled with helpful informations!

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    Yes a 100% and a grateful +1 on your experimenting and essentially being our guinea pig for these new products. Without you and your willingness to try and even better yet give us your honest feedback wether it be good or bad, we probably wouldnt buy or try these products for ourselves.
    Kudos to you mtlquattro and keep up the good work.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Audizine mobile app

  8. #168
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Quick update, I finally went ahead and finished my wmi install. I took the effort to cover all the wiring and the meth line with black braided nylon hose. I also covered the brass fittings with black shrink wrap for a very discrete look. I could not stant the look of the plumbing under the hood.

    I have not driven the car much since but will come back for more details and first impressions! I am currently testing an absolute target map of 27psi...

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    Well aside from the spray nozzle the engine bay looks stock! Well done.... looking forward to see trap speeds
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  9. #169
    Established Member Three Rings mobE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Quick update, I finally went ahead and finished my wmi install. I took the effort to cover all the wiring and the meth line with black braided nylon hose. I also covered the brass fittings with black shrink wrap for a very discrete look. I could not stant the look of the plumbing under the hood.

    I have not driven the car much since but will come back for more details and first impressions! I am currently testing an absolute target map of 27psi...

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    Look's great man, I really like the added touch with the shrink wrapp ect. I feel like I'm going to do my suspension build in the spring and once it heats up in the midwest I'll be adding wmi for the summer lol

  10. #170
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    So far I have been testing a few meth mixture and getting a good impression of what the boost threshold could by for those mixtures. These are approximate but based on weight and not volume. Keep in mind that here is freezing cold (-20c) so I am looking more at the added octane and fueling benefits than cooling. I started with 35/65, immediatly I could feel the car being able to make effective power from the last psi's above 23 that I tried to run on pump. It felt good and seems to be a good mixture for a safe 24-25psi goal. Then I went to 50/50, not a big difference but could add a little more boost so should be a good mix for daily driving. 65/35 is when I started to see the action of the added fueling, could reach 27-28 psi without putting too much stress on the trims compared to 94 pump fuel at 25psi.
    Now testing somewhere between 80/20 and 85/20 and damn that thing rips lol! Pushing 29psi, trims still better than 25 on pump. I can say with confidence than this car has a 10 sec pass at over 125mph in it ;)

    I can't speak of iat's improvement yet, it's so cold that my temps are always below 32f even without meth, that cts cooler is amazing!

    As far as timing I think the car will have to somewhat adapt to that effective octane addition so it is still giving me the numbers that I am used to see and I never had any pull to begin with even on pump.

    When summer comes, my bet is that increasing the water in the mixture will probably be good to keep those boost levels, we will have to see!

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  11. #171
    Established Member Three Rings Yabi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Quick update, I finally went ahead and finished my wmi install. I took the effort to cover all the wiring and the meth line with black braided nylon hose. I also covered the brass fittings with black shrink wrap for a very discrete look. I could not stant the look of the plumbing under the hood.

    I have not driven the car much since but will come back for more details and first impressions! I am currently testing an absolute target map of 27psi...

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    Great job, looks clean! Did you source the materials online?
    Last edited by Yabi; 02-20-2019 at 04:09 AM.

  12. #172
    Established Member Two Rings B9S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yabi View Post
    Great job, looks clean! Did you source the materials online?
    All hardware is BMS and I purchased my heat shrink/heat shield tubing off Amazon. No sure about Johann.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app

  13. #173
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Quick update, I finally went ahead and finished my wmi install. I took the effort to cover all the wiring and the meth line with black braided nylon hose. I also covered the brass fittings with black shrink wrap for a very discrete look. I could not stant the look of the plumbing under the hood.

    I have not driven the car much since but will come back for more details and first impressions! I am currently testing an absolute target map of 27psi

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    That is so discreet I cannot even use it for marketing hehe Nice going.

  14. #174
    Veteran Member Four Rings RLB6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    I can't speak of iat's improvement yet, it's so cold that my temps are always below 32f even without meth, that cts cooler is amazing!

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    What made you decide on the CTS FMIC and not the other offerings from APR or IE? from my understanding, the CTS unit is actually smaller than the APR or IE ones.

    Current: '18 S5 | SportBack | Prestige

    Previous: S4 | Stage ++ | PLM


  15. #175
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George@BMS View Post
    That is so discreet I cannot even use it for marketing hehe Nice going.
    That's a good one George! It seems like big power while retaining a discret oem look is in the dna of the audi enthusiast!

    Thanks @danaeroS4 for the kind words and thanks everyone for the support!

    Like Mason said, everything you need for the wmi can be purchased from the bms website, super simple you pick the starter kit, choose your tank size, nozzle size and add the s4 tb adaptor plate. Single BM10 is the recommended nozzle for our cars. Now looking at adding an adfitionnal BM5 nozzle to my setup.

    Nylon braided hosing and shrink wrap comes from my local electronic part store. Choose the splitted nylon hose so you can hide your wires without even unplugging anything.

    I chose the cts cooler because I used their product in the past for my big turbo b6 and always been satisfied. The I.E one I believe is bar and fins and the others are bar and plate so that ruled out the I.E. for me. The cts is only a 1/4" narrower than the apr so they basically are the same size and cts is half the price of the apr for what seems to be an equivalent product and my logs shows it. I looked at the oem piping and soon realised that it was well designed with no detour or abrupt corners. All fmic offers the same as oem inlet/outlet diameter so I don't really see the advantage of oversizing the piping alone. Might actually increase the pressure drop. I may be wrong on this but that was my reasoning. Finally the ecs and the srm ones are not options for the s5, they are too thick.

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  16. #176
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Now that everything is almost all dialed-in, here is a quick 1-5 gear log. We can see that there is some overboost but will be quickly fixed by reducing de wgdc in the higher range and raising the boost target to match the 28-29 psi that I want. This is a map using 80-20 mixture intended for 1/4 mile racing, I do not plan to run that boost on the streets. Now that we can reach those levels of boost, the main concern is how much the engine can take. I consider my goal reached as George said, we could have been stuck with an hybrid turbo at stock boost level. With the jb4 and the help of wmi we can really push this thing beyond what I expected in the sens that I would have never anticipated that we could max out the engine with this setup!! What is the limit, I don't know and I don't plan to test it until options are available to build the engine.

    https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5c6ebb28..._38_Map-6.xlsx

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  17. #177
    Veteran Member Four Rings RLB6's Avatar
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    Logs looks very good. Very encouraging and pushing me to want to upgrade the turbo! Any chance we'd see a dyno and possibly a video of a run thru the gears because I'd imagine this car is an absolute blast to drive.

    Current: '18 S5 | SportBack | Prestige

    Previous: S4 | Stage ++ | PLM


  18. #178
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RLB6 View Post
    Logs looks very good. Very encouraging and pushing me to want to upgrade the turbo! Any chance we'd see a dyno and possibly a video of a run thru the gears because I'd imagine this car is an absolute blast to drive.
    Can do a video for sure! We'll have to wait a few days because now there is too much snow on the road. For the dyno, that can be done, I'll have to make an appointment.
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  19. #179
    Veteran Member Four Rings RLB6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Can do a video for sure! We'll have to wait a few days because now there is too much snow on the road. For the dyno, that can be done, I'll have to make an appointment.
    The community thanks you!!

    Current: '18 S5 | SportBack | Prestige

    Previous: S4 | Stage ++ | PLM


  20. #180
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Ok guys I will have to come back on what I said about the stock intercooler piping. Running a smooth 25psi and the pipe poped off the fmic inlet lol!

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  21. #181
    Established Member Three Rings Yabi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Ok guys I will have to come back on what I said about the stock intercooler piping. Running a smooth 25psi and the pipe poped off the fmic inlet lol!

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    LOL!

  22. #182
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yabi View Post
    LOL!
    Yeah! It's part of the game!! I already ordered the ecs chargepipe kit.

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  23. #183
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Always a nice heart attack when you hear the pipe come off and the car goes into limp mode
    '11 S4
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  24. #184
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Funny thing is that the car didn't go in limp mode?!? I'll pop it back in place tonight. I wonder if i'll have enough room to remove the belly pan with only a floor jack to lift the car?

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  25. #185
    Established Member Three Rings mobE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Funny thing is that the car didn't go in limp mode?!? I'll pop it back in place tonight. I wonder if i'll have enough room to remove the belly pan with only a floor jack to lift the car?

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    Ha, I bet you shit your pants when that happened! Luckily it was a simple fix.
    To answer your question, it shouldn't be an issue. I had all that taken off when I did my awe dp's... I did it in my garage. I did have the car up on four Jack stands so I could take it up higher.

  26. #186
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    I’m very surprised the car didn’t go into limp mode! But I’m sure it did make a loud pop!
    Happened to me once in my old Evo when I was coming back from AMS in Chicago. Had to limp like 20 min back to replace clamps with tbolts
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  27. #187
    Established Member Three Rings mobE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    I’m very surprised the car didn’t go into limp mode! But I’m sure it did make a loud pop!
    Happened to me once in my old Evo when I was coming back from AMS in Chicago. Had to limp like 20 min back to replace clamps with tbolts
    The car said fuck it, I'm still able to suck air, let's eattt! 😅

  28. #188
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    When I heard the loud pop I was sure I had blown something major whatever but then I realised that everything was still running smoothly so it should no be too bad! Still very scary moment. Now my charge pipe is all bended and collapsed, it really cannot stand that amount of boost what was I thinking lol! Afterward it seems kind of obvious!
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  29. #189
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Yea they also collapse from tbolts. If they are cheap pipes that is
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  30. #190
    Established Member Three Rings mobE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    When I heard the loud pop I was sure I had blown something major whatever but then I realised that everything was still running smoothly so it should no be too bad! Still very scary moment. Now my charge pipe is all bended and collapsed, it really cannot stand that amount of boost what was I thinking lol! Afterward it seems kind of obvious!
    I'm glad I'm running after market pipe's 😅 I'm going to try out some hi boost and see how my car handles it.... I did some logging already and was at about 23lbs! Going to try and bump it up a bit just because, once I find my ceiling I'm going to back it down for normal day to day driving and save that for fun runs.

  31. #191
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobE View Post
    once I find my ceiling I'm going to back it down
    Yeah right... LOL
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  32. #192
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Montreal

    Popping the chargepipe in place was quite easy. I did not have to remove the whole belly pan. It can be done from the engine bay but I realised that after removing a part of the inner fender so I did it from under the car.
    2018 S5 IBIS WHITE COUPE
    11.03@128.04 via dragy
    SRM GTX3582TPC Upgraded Turbine WheelCTS FMICCTS Downpipe/CEL deleteBMS JB4/BCMBMS WMI/Throttle+CP InjectionECS Alu CPRoc-euro/ECS inlet hoseH&R springs RS grille/CF splitterColor matched skirts

  33. #193
    Established Member Three Rings mobE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    431974
    My Garage
    '18 GMC Sierra Denali ultimate
    Location
    IL

    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Yeah right... LOL
    😬😅

  34. #194
    Established Member Two Rings B9S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 21 2018
    AZ Member #
    422806
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Latest results spinning into 3rd. Screenshot_20190224-184752_dragy.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app

  35. #195
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 21 2011
    AZ Member #
    72691
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI

    SRM GTX3582R BB turbo upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by B9S4 View Post
    Latest results spinning into 3rd. Screenshot_20190224-184752_dragy.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app
    Almost there! Great pull! Probably will be one of the first b9s to touch a 10... and on a uncracked ECU 🤯
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  36. #196
    Established Member Two Rings B9S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 21 2018
    AZ Member #
    422806
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    Almost there! Great pull! Probably will be one of the first b9 to touch a 10... and on a uncracked ECU 🤯
    Thank you! I'll get a bit more methanol injection, increase the boost a little more, and get my lighter summer wheels on then give it another try.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app

  37. #197
    Senior Member Three Rings Nez136's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 21 2011
    AZ Member #
    72691
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI

    Quote Originally Posted by B9S4 View Post
    Thank you! I'll get a bit more methanol injection, increase the boost a little more, and get my lighter summer wheels on then give it another try.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app
    I think there will be more refining with the jb4 yet, especially with you bigger turbo guys. Playing with the meth and boost can definitely shave a little off yet.

    The ECU is pretty damn awesome but would love to see how much more can be squeezed out with a few more degrees of timing advance.
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  38. #198
    Established Member Two Rings B9S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 21 2018
    AZ Member #
    422806
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    I think there will be more refining with the jb4 yet, especially with you bigger turbo guys. Playing with the meth and boost can definitely shave a little off yet.

    The ECU is pretty damn awesome but would love to see how much more can be squeezed out with a few more degrees of timing advance.
    I agree, to be running a piggy back with a larger turbo and wmi it is incredible how well it adapts. You couldn't do this with previous generations.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app

  39. #199
    Veteran Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 12 2007
    AZ Member #
    21757
    Location
    Montreal

    Good job Mason! Imagine at 30psi with 80-20 mix and additionnal nozzle! Can't wait for race season!

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    2018 S5 IBIS WHITE COUPE
    11.03@128.04 via dragy
    SRM GTX3582TPC Upgraded Turbine WheelCTS FMICCTS Downpipe/CEL deleteBMS JB4/BCMBMS WMI/Throttle+CP InjectionECS Alu CPRoc-euro/ECS inlet hoseH&R springs RS grille/CF splitterColor matched skirts

  40. #200
    Established Member Two Rings B9S4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 21 2018
    AZ Member #
    422806
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Good job Mason! Imagine at 30psi with 80-20 mix and additionnal nozzle! Can't wait for race season!

    Envoyé de mon SM-A530W en utilisant Tapatalk
    I wouldn't have run that without your help! That is going to be crazy I can't wait either!

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Audizine mobile app

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