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  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Pure stage 2 turbo upgrade

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    Pure has announce their turbo upgrade for the b9. No pricing yet. This is going to be a game changer. Bms is working on tuning and it's going to be released soon. I decided to order a new stock oem turbo to send to pure for the upgrade.

    The advantages of buying second stock turbo:

    You keep your stock unit in case of warranty claim.

    You can swap back to stock when selling the car

    You can swap the setup on a new b9

    You can sell the turbo when moving to another platform

    You don't have leave your car parked with no turbo in it for a few weeks

    I paid 850$ shipped for an oem tested new turbo with minor cosmetic damages. P.M. me if you want the contact info, I will give his email.

    If we look at the pure stage 2 for the n55 we can bet that this is going to be good for +500awhp. Time will tell.

    I will be running this with the APR intercooler. I chose APR because of the upgraded hosing and clamps, in this application it is a safe bet. Or maybe the BMS intercooler that will be released soon but I have no detail on the product.

    Update 2018/11/08
    After collecting some info I decided to go with the gtx3582r ball bearing hybrid from silly rabbit motorsport/eurocode shown in post 14 over the Pure journal bearing turbo.
    The gtx3582r bb is good for 750hp with proper tuning and fueling. That gives a lot of head room when tuning is available.
    I decided to use the billet front mount made by silly rabbit motorsport/eurocode

    The CTS catless downpipe will also be used as well as a resonator delete.


    First is a picture of the turbo I ordered from Norbert:




    Second is a comparison from stock to stage 2. See the machined housing to accept the larger compressor wheel. Turbine side is also upgraded




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    Last edited by mtlquattro; 11-08-2018 at 08:50 AM.
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  2. #2
    Established Member Two Rings Marzoum's Avatar
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    This sounds very exciting!

    Any idea on when we'll see some numbers?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marzoum View Post
    This sounds very exciting!

    Any idea on when we'll see some numbers?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Audizine mobile app
    Usually Pure is not shy on numbers. They post dyno charts with all of their products so when available for purchase I am sure they will release numbers with it.

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  4. #4
    Active Member Two Rings
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    is this engine a opened or closed deck design? also forged or cast internals? i feel like we would need an additional oil cooler too since i get the idea that this engine runs fairly hot

  5. #5
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tliu91 View Post
    is this engine a opened or closed deck design? also forged or cast internals? i feel like we would need an additional oil cooler too since i get the idea that this engine runs fairly hot
    That has been discussed before:

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...839-Motor-Info

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Three Rings nicotino15's Avatar
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    Very interesting, wonder what pricing will be like, must be under 1k since it's just a turbine and some machining, no? I guess you are ok living with CEL for catless downpipe?

    Regarding oil temp question I have one data point - my car runs cooler than my wifes my 3.0T Q5, when my car is highway cruising at 80 I'll be at 204-206 in 70 temps, while hers will be 215-220.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    I love my JB4 but the ecu really needs to be cracked. I think the car is capable of a lot of power with the OEM turbo. An upgrade never hurt anyone. Would love to see to b9 start dipping in the 10s


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    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings q_dubz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicotino15 View Post
    Very interesting, wonder what pricing will be like, must be under 1k since it's just a turbine and some machining, no? I guess you are ok living with CEL for catless downpipe?

    Regarding oil temp question I have one data point - my car runs cooler than my wifes my 3.0T Q5, when my car is highway cruising at 80 I'll be at 204-206 in 70 temps, while hers will be 215-220.
    CEL can be coded out.

    3.0T is supercharged. Gonna run hotter.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    CEL for the downpipe would be the least of my worries but I might go for a catted downpipe. Their pricing is usually around 1k for a stage 1 (upgraded wheel no machining) and 2.5k for the stage 2 (bigger wheel with machining)

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  10. #10
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Aaron@DTP's Avatar
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    Are we anticipating an ECU crack soon?


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    DT Power - Official US distributor for DTE Systems


  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings q_dubz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron@DTP View Post
    Are we anticipating an ECU crack soon?


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Email DTE and maybe they'll email Freiling and find out

  12. #12
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Aaron@DTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by q_dubz View Post
    Email DTE and maybe they'll email Freiling and find out
    I’m not sure what your reference means.


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    DT Power - Official US distributor for DTE Systems


  13. #13
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron@DTP View Post
    Are we anticipating an ECU crack soon?


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Pure turbos work 100% with bms as a tuning solution

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    I love my JB4 but the ecu really needs to be cracked. I think the car is capable of a lot of power with the OEM turbo. An upgrade never hurt anyone. Would love to see to b9 start dipping in the 10s


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    I look at it this way: to get full benefit of an eventual ecu flash you will still need all supprting mods. You already have the jb4 so with all supporting mods you then have the choice to either go ecu flash or upgraded turbo. The turbo upgrade won't be much more money at this point.

    Where is see the ecu tune coming into play is to use as a kind of "back end flash".

    Hybrid gtx3582 anynone.... this one is from another company

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    Last edited by mtlquattro; 11-16-2018 at 11:38 PM.
    NOW: 2018 s5 ibis white coupe 11.65@117.8
    SOLD: 2015 misano s5 s-tronic sport diff
    Totaled: B8S5 IBIS WHITE 6MT
    SOLD: B7S4 BRILLIANT RED 6MT
    SOLD: UNITRONICTUNED GT71R B6 ON 630 cc

  15. #15
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings David@EuroCode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron@DTP View Post
    I’m not sure what your reference means.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    He is referencing Guy Frieling who is a software engineer that supports many of the smaller private calibrators in this arena.


    "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
    - Mario Andretti

  16. #16
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings David@EuroCode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    Pure turbos work 100% with bms as a tuning solution
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!


    "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
    - Mario Andretti

  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David@EuroCode View Post
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!
    I just spoke with Sean at sillyrabbit and he explained to me well in details the limitations of the jb4. I don't know why pure made it sound like their product is going to work perfectly with the jb4 which apparently is not. I have been misinformed at the time and thanks David to take the time to explain this in details.

    Sean convinced me to go with the gtx3582 hybrid bb over the pure stage 2. That is what I am going to do


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    Last edited by mtlquattro; 11-08-2018 at 08:31 AM.
    NOW: 2018 s5 ibis white coupe 11.65@117.8
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    Totaled: B8S5 IBIS WHITE 6MT
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    SOLD: UNITRONICTUNED GT71R B6 ON 630 cc

  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David@EuroCode View Post
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!
    I experienced the same issues with the JB4 for about 3-4 days after install and then they kinda just went away. I’ve been on Map 5 for almost 2 weeks with e85 and only once in a while I throw the drive malfunction. The Christmas tree lit up last week for the first time in a week and a half.

    Terry has been sending out new SENT chips to test and one of the customers has reported no cels since installing a week ago.

    I’d email terry and ask him to send out a sent chip to test on your car. Hopefully this fixes the issues some of use have had.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    '11 S4
    '05 Evo 2.3 HTA35r

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by David@EuroCode View Post
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!
    So does your hybrid turbo work with no cels with stock set up? How much HP you gain with hybrid turbo?



    Sent from my SM-G965W using Audizine mobile app

  20. #20
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Aaron@DTP's Avatar
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    I spoke with the eurocode guys at SEMA and we are exploring whether our DTE unit can be modified to work with the hybrid turbo. We have an application that should be expandable enough to work. We can handle up to 9 digital SENT signals and modulate all of them.


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  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron@DTP View Post
    I spoke with the eurocode guys at SEMA and we are exploring whether our DTE unit can be modified to work with the hybrid turbo. We have an application that should be expandable enough to work. We can handle up to 9 digital SENT signals and modulate all of them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    So that would be a new product from dte. Could the current boxes could be modified and updated or we will need to buy new hardware?

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    SOLD: UNITRONICTUNED GT71R B6 ON 630 cc

  22. #22
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Aaron@DTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlquattro View Post
    So that would be a new product from dte. Could the current boxes could be modified and updated or we will need to buy new hardware?

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    That would depend on what sensors they want to modify. I'll try and connect with them tomorrow and see where we're at with this.
    DT Power - Official US distributor for DTE Systems


  23. #23
    Active Member Two Rings
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    yea how much whp brings hybrid turbo approx ?

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  24. #24
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bours View Post
    yea how much whp brings hybrid turbo approx ?

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    The new hybrid on stock tuning is good for 60whp. Then it is a matter of adding boost. The gtx3582r bb is good for 750hp with proper tuning and fueling.

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  25. #25
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron@DTP View Post
    That would depend on what sensors they want to modify. I'll try and connect with them tomorrow and see where we're at with this.
    That is good news Aaron. I was selling the dte tuner but I decided to back off on the sell. With the dte I have been able to run more boost than the jb4 can handle at this point without getting any drive train malfunction error. I will try to get as much boost as fueling can handle from the dte or the jb4 on the gtx35, I have both options. 18-20 psi on the gtx35 will yield some decent power for now. The fact that the turbo runs great on stock tuning is the reason I am going for it before proper tuning is available. Big turbo with a piggy may sound sketchy for some but we have to start somewhere I guess.
    NOW: 2018 s5 ibis white coupe 11.65@117.8
    SOLD: 2015 misano s5 s-tronic sport diff
    Totaled: B8S5 IBIS WHITE 6MT
    SOLD: B7S4 BRILLIANT RED 6MT
    SOLD: UNITRONICTUNED GT71R B6 ON 630 cc

  26. #26
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by David@EuroCode View Post
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!
    Curious to hear about oil temps, any major increase with the added power? Are you still running the 508/509 0w-20 in it or have you moved to a different weight? Noticed the B9 RS5 runs 502 5w40 which i believe is essentially the same engine.

  27. #27
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Mountain View California

    Quote Originally Posted by David@EuroCode View Post
    We have had our hybrid solution EC/SRM GTX Gen 2 Garrett Hybrid turbo on our development B9 S4 for nearly a year. We have since put 15K miles on the car, and it has been trouble free. Long term testing is a good way to ensure the product will perform well for others. Our turbo works great with the stock software no codes, no issues at all whatsoever. On may of 2018 we installed the BMS JB4 unit (great product), and have been able to turn up the boost. Every now and then, either while cursing or under load the car throws a drive system malfunction code with the CEL coming on. This goes away when you disable the JB4 and go to the stock map or remove the unit and the issue is completely resolved. On occasion the car also goes crazy and goes into limp mode when using the JB4. We have reached out to the one of the representatives at BMS and offered our vehicle for them to take and sort this issue out, but they have not taken us up on that offer.

    I recently spoke with an out of state customer who is interested in our hybrid turbo, I explained to him that compatibility isn't a 100% with the JB4. Interestingly enough, he has a JB4 installed on his car and is experiencing the exact same issue with the stock turbo on the car. When he goes above 3psi over stock the car throws the drive system malfunction code is what I was told. He said he is okay to live with it, as he clears the code using the JB4, but for us that is not good enough. I have driven the car a few times at full throttle and when the car goes to shift it ends up in limp mode and you have to cycle the ignition at 100mph.

    So not sure where you got this info from, but from our personal experience it does not work seamlessly on the hybrid turbo, and from what we have heard it has the same issue with the stock turbo.

    I spoke with the person who installed the pure turbo on the BMS supplied car, and it turns out that the center cartridge was leaking oil both through the outside and into the turbine housing. So it is highly unlikely that they got to test the vehicle to experience these issues or even resolve them.

    I think with a little bit of R&D and less hurry to push/release this product can be very promising. Hopefully they will read this and help sort out this issue as we want it to work more than anyone. We have been at the forefront of B9 performance testing since day one!
    Any insight into how other piggybacks like the DTP products (tuning box, pedal box, tcu) would react with this upgraded turbo? Also, what makes it a "hybrid"? Thanks btw love the video of the full sends with the s4

  28. #28
    Senior Member Three Rings mtlquattro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 12 2007
    AZ Member #
    21757
    Location
    Montreal

    Quote Originally Posted by jgtripleog View Post
    Any insight into how other piggybacks like the DTP products (tuning box, pedal box, tcu) would react with this upgraded turbo? Also, what makes it a "hybrid"? Thanks btw love the video of the full sends with the s4
    The hybrid turbo means in this case that it is a GTX3582R BB CHRA that is fitted into the stock housing. Using another other piggyback like the DTE will allow to raise the boost in the same manner that the jb4 does. From my experience, the DTE is more stable at higher boost levels than the jb4 (20psi and over). The DTE gave me no error code and drivetrain malfunction issues at those boost levels while the jb4 still does but they are working on a fix. Timing and fueling is still managed by the ECU. The jb4 has the ability make adjustments of the fuel open loop to help keeping the fuel trims in check if running into lean mixture conditions. At the moment, how the ECU is managing the fuel trims is still somewhat unknown so as long as the AFR is in range, it should stay to default value. Changing it could result in low fuel pressure error codes from spoofing the signal. The ECU does a decent job in managing the timing at higher boost levels that running the big turbo at something around 20psi should not be an issue timing wise. The stock fueling managed by the ECU is good enough to max out the stock turbo and there is room left for the added airflow of the GTX. How much room, this is what we will find out and that would be the limiting factor until proper flash tuning is available.
    NOW: 2018 s5 ibis white coupe 11.65@117.8
    SOLD: 2015 misano s5 s-tronic sport diff
    Totaled: B8S5 IBIS WHITE 6MT
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    SOLD: UNITRONICTUNED GT71R B6 ON 630 cc

  29. #29
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 23 2017
    AZ Member #
    391450
    Location
    Mountain View California

    Good information, thanks.



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