Stuck on pulling DP trigger

[TristanT14]

I'm just going to get straight to it. I am 19 years old with a B8.5, I don't know a lot about cars to be honest only how to maintain them and keep them in good condition. I am stage 1+ Unitronic as of right now and I was looking to go stage 3 dual pulley with APR CPS. A bunch of people are telling me to do it and a lot of people are telling me not to. The only reason I have been told not to is bc "I dont know what I am getting into". This is somewhat true as I dont know much about these cars but I want that power!! What does everyone think? What do I NEED to KNOW when going dual pulley? I have read sooooo sooo many threads on this. Only thing I can't wrap my head around is the cats and the 02 censors. Please let me know what you think, what you know and also so advice/suggestions. Thanks!

[EAFLO88]

Don’t buy into something off an impulse decision. Study every option very carefully and the costs associated to everything. You will get different opinions based off people with different experiences that include; driving habits, mileage, altitude they live in, different tuners/parts, etc.

It’s clear that you want to make the car even faster. The beauty of these forums is that you will learn to teach yourself based on your own desires and concerns. You’ve also got a ton of people that are willing to teach you a few things but no one wants to keep repeating themselves. Therefore, READ and search as much as you can and you’ll eventually gather everything there is to know. Don’t get overwhelmed with all the info you come across. DP has been around for years on this platform and not everyone regrets it. I myself, started with a Chipwerke and took off from there. Now I am DP and couldn’t be happier with my choice.

Yes, my cats failed on me but I prepared for it and had a backup plan ready for it. So here I am now with test pipes and no check engine light, thanks to a $15 spacer. Now, If you live in a state that isn’t anal on emissions, then you know what to do when worse comes to worse in regards to oem cats failing.

Others and I have already mentioned all you should need to be at a healthy DP tune, via your other thread about the same matter. Go out there and have fun on your project and familiarize yourself well with your car.

[John@IE]

Since we just officially launched our Stage 2 Double Pulley ourselves, I can tell you that it's way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle that level of power.

Pressing pulleys, Upgrading fuel pumps, Cooling overhauls.

Those who end up going this route, are normally the more committed than the average S4 owner because it's a lot of work and money.

I'd ease up the trigger finger if I were you, and spend a couple days or weeks REALLY researching what you'll have to do before making a decision.


It's a ton of fun and scary amounts of power in the DP cars I've driven but it took a lot to get there.

Hope this insight helps you, and good luck!

[elijahallen]

Since we just officially launched our Stage 2 Double Pulley ourselves, I can tell you that it's way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle that level of power.

Pressing pulleys, Upgrading fuel pumps, Cooling overhauls.

Those who end up going this route, are normally the more committed than the average S4 owner because it's a lot of work and money.

I'd ease up the trigger finger if I were you, and spend a couple days or weeks REALLY researching what you'll have to do before making a decision.


It's a ton of fun and scary amounts of power in the DP cars I've driven but it took a lot to get there.

Hope this insight helps you, and good luck!

Hey John, do you guys offer a dual pulley tune for a 2016 SQ5?

[John@IE]

Hey John, do you guys offer a dual pulley tune for a 2016 SQ5?

If your charger pulley is a pressed on pulley, yes we can make it work. If it requires the 4 bolts to bolt on the charger pulley, then we don't have our solution ready for that version just yet.

PM me if you got more questions, I don't wanna jack this guys thread lol

[KRp220]

I'm just going to get straight to it. I am 19 years old with a B8.5, I don't know a lot about cars to be honest only how to maintain them and keep them in good condition. I am stage 1+ Unitronic as of right now and I was looking to go stage 3 dual pulley with APR CPS. A bunch of people are telling me to do it and a lot of people are telling me not to. The only reason I have been told not to is bc "I dont know what I am getting into". This is somewhat true as I dont know much about these cars but I want that power!! What does everyone think? What do I NEED to KNOW when going dual pulley? I have read sooooo sooo many threads on this. Only thing I can't wrap my head around is the cats and the 02 censors. Please let me know what you think, what you know and also so advice/suggestions. Thanks!

maybe you should start one more thread about dual pulley?

in all seriousness, i personally feel that going dual pulley was not worth the headache over stage 2. my clutch went ($4500), cooling ($1000+), bigger crank pulley ($800?) and i just had test pipes installed ($700?)

if i could do it all over again, i would have gone stage 2 and maybe added meth. even if i had to upgrade my clutch and added cooling just for the added benefit, i would have saved thousands of dollars (because i could have got a cheaper clutch), and more importantly a lot of headache

there are plently of people on this forum that are proficient with logging and the "science" behind everything and the technical/mechanical know-how to navigate through issues and do a lot of the work themselves. if you don't have that (it sounds like you don't), you should minimize your variables or find a "off the shelf type solution" and trust whatever your local shop says and become a check-writer

[BDP]

I run 11's on pump gas literally every single time I fire up my Dragy and log. Literally, every single time....except this morning when it was 38 degrees out and I spun through 2nd. However, you get the point. I'm happy that I have a consistent 11 second car that can pretty much replicate it any situation with street tires. If you want that on Stg 2 you need to run race gas. My experience is a pump gas dual pulley car is going to be right around what a race gas Stg 2 car is going to pull off. Whats nice about dual pulley is the added torque down low. You can feel it poking around town.

With all of that being said would I do it over again. I'm not sure. It's a tough one because while it's nice having my car set up the way it is. When it comes time to sell it, I'm not going to get much back in return and I had to as others have stated, dump a lot of money into the car. I wouldn't even think about going dual pulley without upgrading cooling. Even with upgraded cooling heat still plays a factor on performance.

[kjeeper10]

Since we just officially launched our Stage 2 Double Pulley ourselves, I can tell you that it's way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle that level of power.

Pressing pulleys, Upgrading fuel pumps, Cooling overhauls.

Those who end up going this route, are normally the more committed than the average S4 owner because it's a lot of work and money.

I'd ease up the trigger finger if I were you, and spend a couple days or weeks REALLY researching what you'll have to do before making a decision.


It's a ton of fun and scary amounts of power in the DP cars I've driven but it took a lot to get there.

Hope this insight helps you, and good luck!

Fuel pump? Thats the first ive heard of this.

[Barkadra]

While I get the OP's interest and desire for going faster, I think we need to go back to the OP's 2nd sentence..."I am 19 years old with a B8.5" Maybe its just the parent in me, but having a stg 1 tune already, the car is already a blast to drive, and being a "new" driver, even if he started at 16 he is still "new", I think you should just spend some time, get to know driving, in general, as well as get to know the car at the power level its at, because it isnt a slouch. Do research, reading, etc. I am also new to this platform and am in the same boat...but I'm looking at all the options. For example, DP...DP isnt even "DP" anymore. You can obtain the same DP power levels with just a larger, lightweight crank pulley for less cost and hassle then swapping out both pulleys. Why more people aren't pushing towards this, I dont knw, other than the fact that most have already sunk the money into both pulleys and its more of a "if i could do it again".

Then there is cooling...more options are becoming available then the overpriced APR or AWE solution, not to mention, power is great...but there are other aspects of the car to address too in order to put that to the ground and not kill yourself or others, or break stuff.

Im done my bit...

But, with all that being said, why AREN'T more people pushing/encouraging a larger crank pulley alone, instead of DP...I'd rather just do a 200mm Crank pulley and leave the stock pulley for now, and still max out the charger at half the cost of DPs.

[chilort]

Don't. Take a year or two (or 10) to learn something about cars if you want to go this route. This is not exactly an "off the shelf" thing at this point. If you have the money to pay a shop to do all the work and maintenance then maybe you could start here. But, by the time you pay for all this work to be done you likely could have traded in the S4, added in some cash, and bought a car with the power level you're really looking for. $0.02

[Gkit19986]

Am i the only one who thinks DP isn’t the big bad wolf that everyone is portraying it to be?

Car parts tend to break in stock forum and the probability increases once upgrading other parts. However, if you apply care and aren’t WOT every time you are driving, chances a modded car will last quite a bit.

I have EPL - DP TUNE 250
187MM PULLEY 300
INSTALLATION :150

Supporting Mods cooling:
MERC HX. $ 399
INSTALLATION : 350


Pending replacement parts: HPFP. - $200
SPARK PLUGS $100
TEST PIPE $400


SO $1400, you can get reliable power but you need to be cautious of how you drive the car.

[Spoorguy]

Second chilort. Stage 1 and stage 2 cars are plenty fun and unless you’re trying to be the fastest in our platform or run low 11s all day, etc...just stick with stage 1 or single pulley whether it be the crank or supercharger. I haven’t gone DP only because I’m stationed in Germany and replacing the cats with about every option out their will fail me for the sound/decibel test here and be costly. There’s way to achieve dual pulley on somewhat of a budget, but even then...is it worth the time and money instead of grabbing a platform that’ll give you the power you want?

[bhvrdr]

Am i the only one who thinks DP isn’t the big bad wolf that everyone is portraying it to be?

Car parts tend to break in stock forum and the probability increases once upgrading other parts. However, if you apply care and aren’t WOT every time you are driving, chances a modded car will last quite a bit.

I have EPL - DP TUNE 250
187MM PULLEY 300
INSTALLATION :150

Supporting Mods cooling:
MERC HX. $ 399
INSTALLATION : 350


Pending replacement parts: HPFP. - $200
SPARK PLUGS $100
TEST PIPE $400


SO $1400, you can get reliable power but you need to be cautious of how you drive the car.

haha, I do have to admit I had to giggle at a few of the comments of "this is not off the shelf stuff" and "way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle the power..."

We are talking about the difference of around 30hp between single pulley and dual pulley and the dual pulley stuff is indeed off the shelf.

As long as you dont plan on trying to run a bunch of e85 the only thing you need to run a moderate dual pulley ratio is:
1. Tune
2. Heat exhanger that is installed correctly and logged to be certain it is functioning at its optimum
3. the pulleys

Thats it. I ran 11.4 at 119mph on a full weight car that had three parts on it and probably under 3 grand in upgrades all-in.

That said, if I was doing a lot of road coursing i'd personally just flash a stage 2 file that bleeds more boost to go a bit easier on the car. Otherwise have a blast. YOu might blow cats but you may blow cats stage 2 or even stock.

Now this is not talking about the people that are trying to run 3.5 pulley ratios with e50 in the tank and ported blowers and no cats, etc etc who are maxing out the stock fuel system. If you are running a moderate 3.15 ratio on pump gas I dont see why you'd need fuel system upgrades. At the worst you could just put in a HPFP rod which is also cheap, easy, and "off the shelf" too. Hell, all of us in the B7 A4 days had to do it ;)


That said, in order to disagree with myself, I do think theres nothing wrong with stage 2 ish pulley ratios either. You can run a 2.85 ratio and run 11.8 on pump gas all day long in a sorted car.

Mike

[chilort]

haha, I do have to admit I had to giggle at a few of the comments of "this is not off the shelf stuff" and "way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle the power..."

Mike

Yeah, but you've got to put this in the context of some of the other posts/threads made by the OP. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...332-Test-Pipes

[bhvrdr]

I'm with ya and I didnt mean to be a wiseass and yeah to be honest if failed cats are a concern we probably should stay stock. I'm dreading the day mine go but this will be my third dual pullied car and luckily no issue. I'm sure they'll go eventually and it will suck lol. But oh well. I feel the only way I could get them covered by warranty is if I had kept the car stock.

Mike

[Solarsuplex]

I'd rather see you spend the money on dual pulley than buying more ugly shoes

[BDP]

That said, in order to disagree with myself, I do think theres nothing wrong with stage 2 ish pulley ratios either. You can run a 2.85 ratio and run 11.8 on pump gas all day long in a sorted car.

Mike

I wouldn't say all day long but more or less in ideal conditions you could run 11's on a sorted car. My current car will run 11's in the middle of July 3k ft DA. I don't see even a sorted Stg 2 car doing that. The question is what are you looking for...a car that has the potential to run 11's or a car that will run 11's year around. I don't even consider this platform a 10 second platform especially since we literally have 3 people who have kissed 10's. There is no consistency to support it.

[KRp220]

haha, I do have to admit I had to giggle at a few of the comments of "this is not off the shelf stuff" and "way more than meets the eye to get the car ready to handle the power..."

We are talking about the difference of around 30hp between single pulley and dual pulley and the dual pulley stuff is indeed off the shelf.

As long as you dont plan on trying to run a bunch of e85 the only thing you need to run a moderate dual pulley ratio is:
1. Tune
2. Heat exhanger that is installed correctly and logged to be certain it is functioning at its optimum
3. the pulleys

Thats it. I ran 11.4 at 119mph on a full weight car that had three parts on it and probably under 3 grand in upgrades all-in.

That said, if I was doing a lot of road coursing i'd personally just flash a stage 2 file that bleeds more boost to go a bit easier on the car. Otherwise have a blast. YOu might blow cats but you may blow cats stage 2 or even stock.

Now this is not talking about the people that are trying to run 3.5 pulley ratios with e50 in the tank and ported blowers and no cats, etc etc who are maxing out the stock fuel system. If you are running a moderate 3.15 ratio on pump gas I dont see why you'd need fuel system upgrades. At the worst you could just put in a HPFP rod which is also cheap, easy, and "off the shelf" too. Hell, all of us in the B7 A4 days had to do it ;)


That said, in order to disagree with myself, I do think theres nothing wrong with stage 2 ish pulley ratios either. You can run a 2.85 ratio and run 11.8 on pump gas all day long in a sorted car.

Mike

giggle at my comments all you want! you made some valid points, but as chilhort alluded to, think of the context (no offense to the OP, but i'm not too far away and will admit my mistakes)
i've seen your posts and value your insight a lot, but its very very clear to me that you know exponentially more about modifying cars than i do. what's easy and "off the shelf" to you isn't as easy for some of us, like the OP. you comment about adding a HPFP so nonchalantly, but that is daunting to me. i just don't know enough about it. i was just trying to level with the OP and provide some perspective from someone who has DP and has had some headaches because of it, and had a very reliable, satisfying stage 2 car

[Bartlett]

The main reasons why tuned S4s fail, relative to stock S4s are:

- driving behavior (drivers that tune their S4 are more likely spirited drivers)
- increased EGTs (timing, boost)
- richer A/F (tune-dependent)

When you go from stage 2 to dual pulley, you get a significantly higher EGT/HP ratio than when you go from stage 1 to stage 2. And all of this is for probably a 20-30whp increase on pump gas.

It's better to spend the money on a throttle body and a ported blower, and have your tune accommodate that. If so, you will get that 20-30whp increase without compromising reliability and performance due to thermals.

The only people that should go DP IMO are those that care about drag times or are on the pursuit of making their car as fast as possible.

[bhvrdr]

giggle at my comments all you want! you made some valid points, but as chilhort alluded to, think of the context (no offense to the OP, but i'm not too far away and will admit my mistakes)
i've seen your posts and value your insight a lot, but its very very clear to me that you know exponentially more about modifying cars than i do. what's easy and "off the shelf" to you isn't as easy for some of us, like the OP. you comment about adding a HPFP so nonchalantly, but that is daunting to me. i just don't know enough about it. i was just trying to level with the OP and provide some perspective from someone who has DP and has had some headaches because of it, and had a very reliable, satisfying stage 2 car

haha, ok ok. I do see your points and maybe I shot off a bit prematurely (thats not what she said).

Mike

[KRp220]

haha, ok ok. I do see your points and maybe I shot off a bit prematurely (thats not what she said).

Mike

lol.
its all easy when you know what youre doing! i guess i could have summarized it to that haha

[Spoorguy]

Forgot to add this at the end of my reply and after reading others, it all comes down to what you want out of the car and what you’re willing to spend for it. Quite a few variables in place with whom you plan to go DP with, what supporting mods you’ll get, what you’ll be doing with the car, where you’re located, etc...if I was in the states I would do it

[Morritse]

Your cooling is adequate. I was in a similar situation as you, just be prepared to deal with blown cats. It's very pricey.

[rj124104]

This is the first thread I've read where people are down on the dual pulley. I thought this was like the rapture and everyone stage 1 or 2 is waiting to be taken. I don't track, but have bought a crank pulley to go DP. Now you're making me think that's stupid.

[Morritse]

I'd personally go e40 on stage 2 before dual pulley if the option is available.

[KRp220]

The main reasons why tuned S4s fail, relative to stock S4s are:

- driving behavior (drivers that tune their S4 are more likely spirited drivers)
- increased EGTs (timing, boost)
- richer A/F (tune-dependent)

When you go from stage 2 to dual pulley, you get a significantly higher EGT/HP ratio than when you go from stage 1 to stage 2. And all of this is for probably a 20-30whp increase on pump gas.

It's better to spend the money on a throttle body and a ported blower, and have your tune accommodate that. If so, you will get that 20-30whp increase without compromising reliability and performance due to thermals.

The only people that should go DP IMO are those that care about drag times or are on the pursuit of making their car as fast as possible.

I'd personally go e40 on stage 2 before dual pulley if the option is available.

these two comments have me thinking
does anybody have a "just" astage 2 car with a ported/larger throttle body and ported supercharger? (rather than DP plus those)
would that keep temps down any farther?
seems like the TB and ported SC gains would almost offset the DP gains (?)

[chilort]

these two comments have me thinking
does anybody have a "just" astage 2 car with a ported/larger throttle body and ported supercharger? (rather than DP plus those)
would that keep temps down any farther?
seems like the TB and ported SC gains would almost offset the DP gains (?)

This is probably the route that I'm headed over the long term. But I don't know if anyone has gone this way yet. This assumes I'm not out of the car before I get these things done.

[raudiace4]

You'll eventually blow your cats on regular stage 2 anyways.

[Bartlett]

these two comments have me thinking
does anybody have a "just" astage 2 car with a ported/larger throttle body and ported supercharger? (rather than DP plus those)
would that keep temps down any farther?
seems like the TB and ported SC gains would almost offset the DP gains (?)

I might be someone that does that within the next year or so. I'd need to talk to Unitronic.

There should be greater heat dissipation afforded by more air volume and the ceramic coating. But, you will produce more boost with the same timing, so perhaps temperature decreases will be negated. But, I think they'd go down a little bit.

This is probably the route that I'm headed over the long term. But I don't know if anyone has gone this way yet. This assumes I'm not out of the car before I get these things done.

I don't yet know of anyone on only Stage 2 with a ported blower and/or throttle body. But, I'm sure there are a few folks.

You'll eventually blow your cats on regular stage 2 anyways.

Let's say you are running a 3.28 ratio and your timing isn't too aggressive or being pulled, your cooling system is fantastic (that one guy's trunk setup), and your tune isn't running a much lower A/F ratio, then I doubt you'd blow cats.

[waxxonMTL]

maybe you should start one more thread about dual pulley?

scratch that. Make it another 3. #andanotherone

[Fresh.S4]

these two comments have me thinking
does anybody have a "just" astage 2 car with a ported/larger throttle body and ported supercharger? (rather than DP plus those)
would that keep temps down any farther?
seems like the TB and ported SC gains would almost offset the DP gains (?)

me. sorta, i have a chipwerkes pro stage2. i REFUSE to get a tune (primarily because of cost). I also REALLLLLLY want to go test pipes but the costs of install is crazy. I also plan on going ported charger before pullies and when i go pullies im starting at 190+ mm.

[Morritse]

me. sorta, i have a chipwerkes pro stage2. i REFUSE to get a tune (primarily because of cost). I also REALLLLLLY want to go test pipes but the costs of install is crazy. I also plan on going ported charger before pullies and when i go pullies im starting at 190+ mm.

Stage 2 means non OEM pulley ratio.

I know there's a stage 2 guy with 410WHP here.

[MSq5]

"You'll shoot your eye out, kid!"

Wall of text warning.

Seriously, when I was 19 dinosaurs still ruled the earth. It was 1969. The new '70 models had just hit the showroom. We (my family) bought a new '70 A body MOPAR (lightest thing with a big engine option) with HiPo 340 Wedge (grossly under rated hp from the factory) small block engine, four speed and 3.91 limited slip diff. We ordered it delete everything else. No AC, no power anything, no radio, rubber mats. The idea was showroom stock drag racing. Pulled the brand new engine and blueprinted it. Dyno testing, carb rejetting. Foam pancake air filter (read: change oil very frequently because it was close to no filter), and high flow mufflers. Had to run stock exhaust otherwise. Tweaked the suspension, altering torsion bar settings in front, drag valving shocks, pinion snubber, all the little tricks that you can do in showroom stock in those days and be legal. Lightweight rims, narrow front tires, as much as I could stuff with clearance in the rear on street legal rubber. Lightened up everything the rules would allow. Ran quicker times than showroom stock Hemi 'Cudas.

Had a ball.

But . . . this was a family project. Our family business was automotive performance engine building and machine shop services. We had resources to do this and to fix it when parts broke, and they will. Cam lobe and clutch wear . . . some chronic issues. Every car will have its Achilles heel(s).

Fast forward a few years. Took a new Saab turbo to the dragstrip the first time. Had reflashed the ECU, high boost tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump regulator, big catless exhaust system and high flow intake. Maiden run: Broke an engine mount. After getting it sorted out better, destroyed a clutch. Upgraded the clutch. Upgraded the turbo and intercooler. Big turbo means no low end torque but tire shredding once it comes on. Huge almost uncontrollable torque steer. Not very good on the street. I could go on.

Fast forward through a few other high performance cars. New Mazdaspeed 3 set up much the same as the Saab but with a lot more suspension work and far more aggressive tuning. Also catless. Turned out to be very, very reliable, except that it eats K04 turbos. Sort of replace them like tires.

I've always had a hot car and always modded them until stuff started breaking. But I always had something else to drive when stuff broke. For a daily driver it's easy to go too far too quickly.

My point. Just know this OP: nothing wrong with speed at your age if you keep your head about it, and if you know that you will have to expect accelerated stress and parts breakage or wear. Comes with the territory. Pay to play.

Have fun. I'm fully expecting to blow cats with my Audi. They ain't cheap. Maybe they will hold. I'm low pulley ratio stage 2, but will keep modding.

Go for it if you can. Or maybe you might want to stay at Stage 1 for a while and see how the car holds up, especially if you need the car for dependable daily transportation.

[Aiserock]

I think some of us just enjoy tweaking our cars. I do all of my own work (much to the chagrin of my Audi dealers) so it's not that expensive. Sometimes I get halfway through a project and think to myself"What the f*&^ was I thinking?" but when I bolt everything back up and the car starts, it's all worth it.

It's an expensive platform to work with though, damned Audi tax I swear. I've had my 2014 for 2 years now and have probably dumped 3000 in parts and tune (not including all the maintenance items) and I really enjoy the car. I'll never get my money back but that's not why I did it in the first place.

Whatever puts a smile on your face :)

[Morritse]

I think some of us just enjoy tweaking our cars. I do all of my own work (much to the chagrin of my Audi dealers) so it's not that expensive. Sometimes I get halfway through a project and think to myself"What the f*&^ was I thinking?" but when I bolt everything back up and the car starts, it's all worth it.

It's an expensive platform to work with though, damned Audi tax I swear. I've had my 2014 for 2 years now and have probably dumped 3000 in parts and tune (not including all the maintenance items) and I really enjoy the car. I'll never get my money back but that's not why I did it in the first place.

Whatever puts a smile on your face :)

3k in two years? Fuck me. I've dumped like $8k since March.

[chilort]

3k in two years? Fuck me. I've dumped like $8k since March.

I've done that just dicking around with the exhaust.

[01northernS4]

haha, ok ok. I do see your points and maybe I shot off a bit prematurely (thats not what she said).

Mike

lol

[01northernS4]

these two comments have me thinking
does anybody have a "just" astage 2 car with a ported/larger throttle body and ported supercharger? (rather than DP plus those)
would that keep temps down any farther?
seems like the TB and ported SC gains would almost offset the DP gains (?)

My friend Bruno_s4... he has just a stage 2 car with s4matty ported supercharger and throttle body... posted his dyno recently and had a very healthy increase from the ported supercharger and throttle body.

He swears by his set up and likely the route I'll eventually take instead of dp... less heat, similar power and possibly less likely to kill the cats...

[01northernS4]

Stage 2 means non OEM pulley ratio.

I know there's a stage 2 guy with 410WHP here.

Maybe my buddy Bruno_s4 who posted his stage 2 dyno with s4matty's ported throttle body and supercharger... posted a thread recently on the +30whp gains

[KRp220]

I've done that just dicking around with the exhaust.

I have a spreadsheet of the shit I’ve put into my car and I just about barf every time I look at it $$

As they say, #YOLO


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