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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    K03 and K04 "Hybrid-ness"

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    So I have spent hours reading up on different types of K03's and K04's and forgive me if it has been posted somewhere prior to this but I could not find a list of wheels/CHRA's that could fit into, say, a K03S housing. I've heard that people have ran RS6 K04 compressors on the VW forums and for the 2.7T S4's but with some machining. To what extent can we modify our stock K03S? Would a K04-23 from a TT225 fit for example? Other variants, 016, 020, 024 etc.? Will all K03/04 CHRA's fit any K03/04 housings, or with minimal modification? Sorry for the abundance of questions but a response to any of these would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Id skip all that and just go for a GTRS eliminator.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings A4-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    Id skip all that and just go for a GTRS eliminator.
    I agree ^^^^
    I put in a Mambatek Ko4 Pro and I wish I had of just got a Gtrs now!
    Don't get me wrong the K04 is fun as hell to drive just very limited.

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  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    I get that it makes more sense for big power goals but in theory just buying a replacement CHRA or swapping wheels is a lot cheaper than getting an entire turbo kit. Plus no turbo can spool quite as quick as a K03/04.


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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    Spool and power output are two different things to consider. With the money needed for supporting mods (ie injectors, maf, intercooler, clutch, etc) it is just better to spend a few extra hundred dolllars for a larger turbo, sacrifice some RPM, and then learn the new powerband of your setup so lag is not really a concern once moving.

    When sticking with the stock turbo housings, it will eventually become a choking point for power. Those housings can only move so much air/combustion gas before they get overburdened. Also not to mention the turbo can get really hot trying to utilize larger wheels in such small housings.

    I personally think the Frankenturbo is the best compromise kit for the B6 platform. Little lag sacrifice for a decent power gain, and decently priced.
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    Id skip all that and just go for a GTRS eliminator.
    yep, took me all of 2k miles to realize k04 was a complete waste of money...your fuel economy with ttrs injectors goes down the toilet with that turbo as well...
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Three Rings Gin+'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    So I have spent hours reading up on different types of K03's and K04's and forgive me if it has been posted somewhere prior to this but I could not find a list of wheels/CHRA's that could fit into, say, a K03S housing. I've heard that people have ran RS6 K04 compressors on the VW forums and for the 2.7T S4's but with some machining. To what extent can we modify our stock K03S? Would a K04-23 from a TT225 fit for example? Other variants, 016, 020, 024 etc.? Will all K03/04 CHRA's fit any K03/04 housings, or with minimal modification? Sorry for the abundance of questions but a response to any of these would be greatly appreciated.
    Not entirely relevant to your question but I've always liked the k04-64 idea but the availability/price of the adapter kits seems hit and miss.
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    I get that it makes more sense for big power goals but in theory just buying a replacement CHRA or swapping wheels is a lot cheaper than getting an entire turbo kit. Plus no turbo can spool quite as quick as a K03/04.


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    you are already half way there.... really its just getting a manifold and gtrs eliminator (which I will say have the best power curve of any turbo ive had) and injectors and upgrading your apr software. it much more daily able power. you will start to hate the torque curve of the k04 very quickly. I got much better mpg on a gtrs as well.
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    you are already half way there.... really its just getting a manifold and gtrs eliminator (which I will say have the best power curve of any turbo ive had) and injectors and upgrading your apr software. it much more daily able power. you will start to hate the torque curve of the k04 very quickly. I got much better mpg on a gtrs as well.
    yep, i was getting like 15/20mpg with k04 driving very conservatively, the thing eats through gas...

    with the gt2860rs...no boost till 4k rpm but still very drivable in city traffic with AWESOME gas mileage...4k and up it is a totally different car...feels torquier than rs4 even though it probably isn't as fast...i'd imagine gtrs is similar despite boost kicking in a bit lower in the RPM range compared to the full frame turbo...
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Agree with the bigger turbo options for more power but with that comes rods otherwise you're walking on thin ice. I have a k04 on my car with 440cc injectors and driving on the street is a blast. It pulls OK on the highway for as heavy as the B6 is but anything at or above 300 lbs torque you really should consider rods.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSI NRG View Post
    Agree with the bigger turbo options for more power but with that comes rods otherwise you're walking on thin ice. I have a k04 on my car with 440cc injectors and driving on the street is a blast. It pulls OK on the highway for as heavy as the B6 is but anything at or above 300 lbs torque you really should consider rods.
    GTRS is the tipping point for rods. Anything beyond GTRS and you want rods. You actually have more of a chance of snapping a rod through your block with a k04 running that aggressive. The torque spike is what snaps rods.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    GTRS is nice, but as others said, you have to learn how to drive with the new powerband: i.e. blipping throttle a bit between shifts, so you're not bogged down completely when driving lazily around town. When you drive aggressively and shift quickly, ad therefore, staying in the spool RPM, it's pretty sweet.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiA4_20T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonan View Post
    yep, i was getting like 15/20mpg with k04 driving very conservatively, the thing eats through gas...

    with the gt2860rs...no boost till 4k rpm but still very drivable in city traffic with AWESOME gas mileage...4k and up it is a totally different car...feels torquier than rs4 even though it probably isn't as fast...i'd imagine gtrs is similar despite boost kicking in a bit lower in the RPM range compared to the full frame turbo...
    Ugh, you guys are making me want to toss mine on the wagon. I keep thinking I want to do a 2.7T but I already have the turbo and injectors....
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiA4_20T View Post
    Ugh, you guys are making me want to toss mine on the wagon. I keep thinking I want to do a 2.7T but I already have the turbo and injectors....
    i got a spare apr manifold laying around....jus saying
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  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    Yeah youíre probably right. What tune do you thibk would be best for it cuz Iím leaning towards Motoza but everyone seems to love Revo. Also, has anyone gone E85 with GT2860/71R? Would seriously consider that.


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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    Yeah youíre probably right. What tune do you thibk would be best for it cuz Iím leaning towards Motoza but everyone seems to love Revo. Also, has anyone gone E85 with GT2860/71R? Would seriously consider that.


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    if you are doing a standard 550 injector eliminator setup i vote go with tried and try revo. Thats what I did and I have had 0 issues whatsoever. I am only now considering motoza because i am installing cams and have other parts that i can see a lot of gain from with a more custom tune. and yes plenty of people have run e85 on those turbos. I recommend you go with a gtrs eliminator turbo, 550 injectors, revo. You dont need to change maf or antyhing else. Less headache and more perfect daily power.
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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    ^ I agree, run with what is tried and proven. Ironically, EcodeTuning did a test wih the same tune with an FT and said it ran flawlessly (B5 with rising rate system, but doubt that matters in this case). This is old stuff, and Old Guy with Motoza proved what can be done today. I suggest you contemplate before you commit.

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  18. #18
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    GTRS is the tipping point for rods. Anything beyond GTRS and you want rods. You actually have more of a chance of snapping a rod through your block with a k04 running that aggressive. The torque spike is what snaps rods.
    Iím only running 15psi through the K04. I just run 440 cc injectors cause a friend owed me a favor and they were free. So I had a custom tune done for those by Malone Tuning.


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  19. #19
    Senior Member Two Rings A4-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    GTRS is the tipping point for rods. Anything beyond GTRS and you want rods. You actually have more of a chance of snapping a rod through your block with a k04 running that aggressive. The torque spike is what snaps rods.
    I'm running a Mambatek Ko4 Pro hybrid with 550 injectors on 25psi of boost with 320nm torque on a custom tune for about 1year now and the only thing that is starting to go is the OEM clutch I'm surprised it lasted this long!

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  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the input guys. Was on the fence between BT and K04 of some sort but I think you guys convinced me to go BT. I was talking to a friend of mine and he recommended Holset turbos because of the price and durability. I did some research and found that a few forum members have ran them and overall I would be interested in something relatively small like an HX30W or something? Anyone you guys could point me to for help? What/who would be a good tuner for that too? Thanks, Nick.
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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    i got a spare apr manifold laying around....jus saying
    ahhh dayam, i remember you sold one like 30 mins before i tried to buy it from you

    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    Thanks for all of the input guys. Was on the fence between BT and K04 of some sort but I think you guys convinced me to go BT. I was talking to a friend of mine and he recommended Holset turbos because of the price and durability. I did some research and found that a few forum members have ran them and overall I would be interested in something relatively small like an HX30W or something? Anyone you guys could point me to for help? What/who would be a good tuner for that too? Thanks, Nick.
    my experience with motoza has been great!

    gtrs is as plug and play as your going to get...anything bigger and its a fuking rabbit hole of expenses that you'll be to scared to put into an excel sheet to know the true cost of your build...
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  22. #22
    Established Member Four Rings Joe Jr.'s Avatar
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    I decided to buy Jonan's k04 and i've been debating the very same discussion for about a year. I've been watching videos on the spool of the gtrs turbos and just can't believe i'd like waiting til 3500 k for the turbo to start working. I get that the top end and overall power is stronger, but for an around town driver....low end is really what I want. Ever driven a V8? Yeah once you do, waiting for spool sucks...Yeah i know you can drive the piss out of it to get into the power on the gt turbos, but then you're worryin about a clutch too. So anyways, i know people complain about the k04 boost spike, i get that, but it can be controlled also with tuning. I know the guys at Motoza ( just up the street from me) and they work pretty hard at getting the spikes and drivability smoothed out. So, i'm going to try my luck with the k04. I might be reporting back that i don't like it either, but we'll see. My k03s with the e85 tune really is a lot of fun to drive. Oh also my plan is to have the k04 ported and coated.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Jr. View Post
    I decided to buy Jonan's k04 and i've been debating the very same discussion for about a year. I've been watching videos on the spool of the gtrs turbos and just can't believe i'd like waiting til 3500 k for the turbo to start working. I get that the top end and overall power is stronger, but for an around town driver....low end is really what I want. Ever driven a V8? Yeah once you do, waiting for spool sucks...Yeah i know you can drive the piss out of it to get into the power on the gt turbos, but then you're worryin about a clutch too. So anyways, i know people complain about the k04 boost spike, i get that, but it can be controlled also with tuning. I know the guys at Motoza ( just up the street from me) and they work pretty hard at getting the spikes and drivability smoothed out. So, i'm going to try my luck with the k04. I might be reporting back that i don't like it either, but we'll see. My k03s with the e85 tune really is a lot of fun to drive. Oh also my plan is to have the k04 ported and coated.
    ya, mashing around in my rs4 on the weekends and then driving the b6 to work is a jarring transition...b6 feels like a turtle until your above 4k, i actually spun all four tires in the rain in 1st which scared the fuk out of me...b6 with gt2860rs has a crazy torque spike while rs4 with v8 is a super smooth flat torque curve that doesn't really throw you back at all, but then you look down at the speedometer and realize you're going 100mph...

    FWIW, ceramic coating the hotside of the turbo is totally worth it! i coated the exhaust manifold and the snail and the reduction in engine bay temps is crazy...definitely worth it for that reason alone!
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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Jr. View Post
    I decided to buy Jonan's k04 and i've been debating the very same discussion for about a year. I've been watching videos on the spool of the gtrs turbos and just can't believe i'd like waiting til 3500 k for the turbo to start working. I get that the top end and overall power is stronger, but for an around town driver....low end is really what I want. Ever driven a V8? Yeah once you do, waiting for spool sucks...Yeah i know you can drive the piss out of it to get into the power on the gt turbos, but then you're worryin about a clutch too. So anyways, i know people complain about the k04 boost spike, i get that, but it can be controlled also with tuning. I know the guys at Motoza ( just up the street from me) and they work pretty hard at getting the spikes and drivability smoothed out. So, i'm going to try my luck with the k04. I might be reporting back that i don't like it either, but we'll see. My k03s with the e85 tune really is a lot of fun to drive. Oh also my plan is to have the k04 ported and coated.
    This is a very common mis conception alot of people have about bigger turbos. You wait until 3500 to get FULL boost. not boost period. I hate the jerkyness of the k04. It is a pain in the ass and it horrible on MPG. even if u do correct with tuning then you are just losing out on HP. GTRS is how the b6 should have come from the factory. Power is always there. its rounded and feels right. The added top end is really nice.
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonan View Post
    ya, mashing around in my rs4 on the weekends and then driving the b6 to work is a jarring transition...b6 feels like a turtle until your above 4k, i actually spun all four tires in the rain in 1st which scared the fuk out of me...b6 with gt2860rs has a crazy torque spike while rs4 with v8 is a super smooth flat torque curve that doesn't really throw you back at all, but then you look down at the speedometer and realize you're going 100mph...

    FWIW, ceramic coating the hotside of the turbo is totally worth it! i coated the exhaust manifold and the snail and the reduction in engine bay temps is crazy...definitely worth it for that reason alone!
    I regret not ceramic coating my entire hotside. I did read alot of conflicting reports about premature cracking attributed to ceramic coating though
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings jonan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    I regret not ceramic coating my entire hotside. I did read alot of conflicting reports about premature cracking attributed to ceramic coating though
    lol, if it cracks than i'll have an excuse to buy another housing and get my turbo blanket on...
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4SoftWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmatt33 View Post
    This is a very common mis conception alot of people have about bigger turbos. You wait until 3500 to get FULL boost. not boost period. I hate the jerkyness of the k04. It is a pain in the ass and it horrible on MPG. even if u do correct with tuning then you are just losing out on HP. GTRS is how the b6 should have come from the factory. Power is always there. its rounded and feels right. The added top end is really nice.
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  28. #28
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    So I found a GTRS Elim for sale with about 6k miles on it. This is the vid the dude sent for shaft play/wheels spinning he sent me upon my request. Hereís the vid: https://youtu.be/RT8ozt-VUEc


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  29. #29
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    Lmk what you guys think. Good, bad? And ik the blades are pretty fíed Iíd just buy a 2867 blade as a replacement/upgradez


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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Looks okay. That level of shaft play is normal. Blade a little chewed but Iíve seen worse

  31. #31
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    May 25 2018
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    2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM
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    Like my main concern is that from the vids Iíve seen of brand new ball bearing turboís the wheels seem to spin a bit more freely and faster. But I guess itís hard to rate a turbo with no oil in it.


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    APR Stage 1+ // TT225 Injectors // ECS Tuning DP // EBay FMIC // Muffler Cutouts // Spectre Warm Air Intake // Stage II RS4 Clutch & LWFW // S5 Peelers // USP Front Conversion // Painted Lower Valences

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings ZimbutheMonkey's Avatar
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    solar system

    You may want to consider using a complete Mazdaspeed K04

    I demonstrated that can be done with the stock manifolds. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-(pics-inside)

    However if you can scoop a cheap GTRS Elim, then by all means do it. As others pointed out, those turbos will start generating positive pressure at around 1800-2000 RPM. I've had 7 different 1.8T turbo setups over the years

    1) K03
    2) K04-15
    3) Mazdaspeed K04 hybrid,
    4) GTRS Elim
    5) 60-1 T3/T4
    6) Comp triplex 5556
    7) Mazdaspeed K04 (entire turbo inc hot side)

    While they all had their +/- I would have to say that the GTRS, Frankenturbo F21 or full Mazdaspeed K04 are the best match for the stock engine and redline.
    This B6/B7 S4 forum is brought to you by the refreshing taste of Kool-Aid... OH YEAH!!!!!

    My car has a real tune. Tuned by me. Just because you're not smart enough to tune your own car don't ruin a thread.

  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    May 25 2018
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    My Garage
    2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Champlin, MN

    Quote Originally Posted by ZimbutheMonkey View Post
    You may want to consider using a complete Mazdaspeed K04

    I demonstrated that can be done with the stock manifolds. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-(pics-inside)

    However if you can scoop a cheap GTRS Elim, then by all means do it. As others pointed out, those turbos will start generating positive pressure at around 1800-2000 RPM. I've had 7 different 1.8T turbo setups over the years

    1) K03
    2) K04-15
    3) Mazdaspeed K04 hybrid,
    4) GTRS Elim
    5) 60-1 T3/T4
    6) Comp triplex 5556
    7) Mazdaspeed K04 (entire turbo inc hot side)

    While they all had their +/- I would have to say that the GTRS, Frankenturbo F21 or full Mazdaspeed K04 are the best match for the stock engine and redline.
    Thatís actually pretty sick. I always wondered why MS3ís made so much more power off of a K04. Always assumed it was just the larger displacement and direct injection.


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  34. #34
    Senior Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
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    Mar 28 2015
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    1987 Dodge Raider G54B Turbo
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    Some have been experimenting with the K04 that's designed for the 2.0T. A beach buggy exhaust adaptor is needed to mount it. It has a really nice manifold design.
    03 A4 Quattro, 1.8T, 02X six speed conversion/ GJW (4.11 final drive). RS4 RSB, H&R FSB.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Two Rings A4-Mike's Avatar
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    Melbourne, Australia

    https://blaast-turbo-factory.myshopi...turbocharger-1

    Blaast K04 STAGE 5, for boosting 30+ psi on built engines....480+ HP !

    You would definitely need rods done.

    Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk

  36. #36
    Established Member Two Rings Stock B6's Avatar
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    May 25 2018
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    2002 Audi A4 1.8TQM
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4-Mike View Post
    https://blaast-turbo-factory.myshopi...turbocharger-1

    Blaast K04 STAGE 5, for boosting 30+ psi on built engines....480+ HP !

    You would definitely need rods done.

    Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk
    No way in hell can a K04 produce that much horsepower, or am I missing something. It just canít flow that much air and if it can, that ainít no damn K04. Anyone have experience with these turboís? Seems hard to pass up at just $1200...


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  37. #37
    Senior Member Two Rings A4-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    No way in hell can a K04 produce that much horsepower, or am I missing something. It just canít flow that much air and if it can, that ainít no damn K04. Anyone have experience with these turboís? Seems hard to pass up at just $1200...


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    That's exactly what I was thinking, I found this when looking for a bigger turbo than the k04 I already have.


    Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk

  38. #38
    Senior Member Four Rings Kevin C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 28 2015
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    My Garage
    1987 Dodge Raider G54B Turbo
    Location
    Portland OR, United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Stock B6 View Post
    No way in hell can a K04 produce that much horsepower, or am I missing something. It just canít flow that much air and if it can, that ainít no damn K04. Anyone have experience with these turboís? Seems hard to pass up at just $1200...


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    The wheels on that are way bigger than a stock K04, no clue if the open up the housing on the exhaust side.
    03 A4 Quattro, 1.8T, 02X six speed conversion/ GJW (4.11 final drive). RS4 RSB, H&R FSB.

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperAvant's Avatar
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    Milton, Ontario

    Ė Steve

    2005 A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro MT
    ē Comp Turbo Billet T3/T4 4756 ē SPA clone manifold ē Turbosmart ultragate ē Forge 007 DV ē 034 SPA 3" downpipe, B6 S4 exhaust ē AEB head & intake manifold ē EV14 750cc @ 4bar ē Snow Performance Meth injection ē Eurodyne Maestro ē Bilstein PSS9 ē OZ ultraleggera matte bronze w/Conti Extreme Contact Sport ē B5 S4 front brakes ē 034 street density engine mounts ē JHM B7 RS4 LWFW + clutch

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings itsmatt33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleeperAvant View Post
    lol love how everyone was like stay away from ko4 and hybrids and yet everyone else is still set on it. Also that USP k04 looks cool but at 3k?! you can do a gtrs and rods for that price.
    GTX2867r Audi A4 B6 TQM RECARO|HRE|ER|IE|APR|AWE|034 Build page here
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