car won't start, stalls out when driving

[bshanna]

Last friday (a week ago) i drove the RS to work. That morning, i started the car and it immediately died. I thought it was odd... started it up again immediately and it started normally and ran fine so i didn't think much of it. Drove into work (about two miles) and about two blocks from work as i was starting to accelerate from a stop light the car stalled. I was able to restart it mid intersection without losing much momentum and quickly parked in my work garage.

As i tried to leave work, the car would turn over but never catch. I went up and worked for a few more hours and tried again after that. Car started but idled hard for a second or two and then smoothed out. I should have left right then but instead moved the car around the garage a bit and caught the ride i had called.

This friday (about a week later) i finally had time to try and get the car out and up to my shop, this time it wouldn't start at all. Today i got back to the garage with my rosstech and tried starting it before pulling codes. I was not expecting it, but it fired right up.. i scrambled a bit because i wasn't really expecting that trying to organize with my wife how we could both leave the garage (with my one parking pass) and by that time (maybe a minute later) the car died just sitting there and there was a very strong smell of gas. Tried restarting, almost caught but died and would only crank. Pulled codes and called it a day:

Saturday,06,October,2018,19:11:21:49420
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1 (x64)
Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: banana

VIN: WUAZZZ8DZ1N904167   License Plate: 
Mileage: 95898   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8D (8D - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B5 (1995 > 2002))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77
 
VIN: WUAZZZ8DZ1N904167   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
   Part No: 8D0 907 551 K
   Component: 2.7l V6/5VT     G   0001  
   Coding: 05711
   Shop #: WSC 87119  
   VCID: 326BE905FEEE6DD64C-515E
   WUAZZZ8DZ1N904167     AUZ7Z0A1787970

2 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
            P0300 - 35-00 - 
16689 - Cylinder 5 
            P0305 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
Readiness: 0000 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8D0-907-389.lbl
   Part No: 8D0 907 389 E
   Component: ABS/ESP allrad      D56  
   Coding: 04395
   Shop #: WSC 02325  
   VCID: 3561D2190F807AEE69-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8D0-820-043-1D.lbl
   Part No: 8D0 820 043 P
   Component: A4     KLIMAAUTOMAT D58  
   Coding: 00260
   Shop #: WSC 63351  
   VCID: 2D51FA79E7D0322E11-2592

2 Faults Found:
00787 - Temperature Sensor in Fresh Air intake duct (G89) 
            30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8D0-959-655-AI8.lbl
   Part No: 8D0 959 655 F
   Component: Airbag Front+Kopf  2001  
   Coding: 00306
   Shop #: WSC 02314  
   VCID: 3979DE2923989E8E8D-517C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 8D0 920 933 
   Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D13   
   Coding: 02262
   Shop #: WSC 00001  
   VCID: 66C3455502A6C17610-515E
   WUAZZZ8DZ1N904167     AUZ7Z0A1787970

2 Faults Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit 
            49-00 - No Communications
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels:. 8D0-862-257.lbl
   Part No: 8L0 862 257 M
   Component: CV-Pump, Alarm, RC  D16  
   Coding: 15114
   Shop #: WSC 63351  
   VCID: 3F8DB0313DBCB0BEB3-4F06

5 Faults Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak) 
            35-00 -  - 
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side 
            35-00 -  - 
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15 
            35-00 -  - 
01366 - Opened Due to Crash Signal 
            35-00 -  - 
00956 - Key 2 
            09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 951 173 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    D03  
   Coding: 00102
   Shop #: WSC 64810  
   VCID: 60CF534DE082AF46EA-4B4C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
   Part No: 4B0 907 357 
   Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER  D004  
   Coding: 00012
   Shop #: WSC 63351  
   VCID: 65C14259FFA0CA6E19-51B6

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:26)--------------------------

Lots of odd stuff there i think... I also have a couple problems besides the car not starting.

1) The car is in a garage that has pretty low clearance (6'6" to be safe, i think it says 6'8") so i don't think a flatbed will work
2) The garage has two very tight 90deg turns to exit so i have no idea if a tow truck could make it comfortably with the car in tow

2a) The garage has a better less aggressive exit on the second basement level but in order to get down there i'd have to get the car down a similarly tight corkscrew

Any advice on the car issue as well as the tow issue would be greatly appreciated. Also, where is the tow hook in this thing?... 2001 rs4.

thanks,
bret

[armageddon-]

Remove front right bumper gril and thread the hook

[MacDaddy]

You know it sounds a little bit like when my FPR died, the vaccuum hose to the intake manifold was full of gas, so pop it off and take a look at that next time it acts up.

This problem been developing and getting wose over time? Hows the fuel economy? (Does what the cluster say for millage not seem to match reality)

[bshanna]

Remove front right bumper gril and thread the hook

Thanks - do i need a tow eyelet screw in thing like i have for my B8 or is there a built in hook? i don't remember seeing on in the car/glovebox...

You know it sounds a little bit like when my FPR died, the vaccuum hose to the intake manifold was full of gas, so pop it off and take a look at that next time it acts up.

This problem been developing and getting wose over time? Hows the fuel economy? (Does what the cluster say for millage not seem to match reality)

I would say it escalated quickly.. i haven't put 50 miles on the car since taking delivery :/

[armageddon-]

Thanks - do i need a tow eyelet screw in thing like i have for my B8

Yep, it should be on your jack box /tool kit

[EuroxS4]

I think the misfire was caused by lack of fuel or too much fuel.How many miles/kilometers on this rs4???It is possible the pump is on its way out possibly or if you have a strong fuel smell most likely cause is a fuel leak.

[bshanna]

Yep, it should be on your jack box /tool kit

Thank you, i'll check. Although i can't get into the hatch because of where it's parked, i'll work on it lol.

I think the misfire was caused by lack of fuel or too much fuel.How many miles/kilometers on this rs4???It is possible the pump is on its way out possibly or if you have a strong fuel smell most likely cause is a fuel leak.

Yes, that is my leading theory as well. Just about 98k miles. The fuel smell was interesting and new as of yesterday i think... Other potentials would be CPS but i'm getting no codes related to that. I did one of those swaps on the street of my old B6 1.8t, wasn't hard but not something i really want to do in the garage :/

[armageddon-]

My bet will be a split on pump hose or the pump itself

[bshanna]

yes, i don't see anything immediately under but it doesn't take much to cause the smell and i haven't removed any of the underbody panels yet...

[SoundEfx]

Where is the strong gas smell, under the hood or exhaust? I ask because it might be injector related.
If it's under the hood, then your injectors or their rubber 'seal' might be damaged and if it's exhaust, it might just be bad injectors.

[bshanna]

Where is the strong gas smell, under the hood or exhaust? I ask because it might be injector related.
If it's under the hood, then your injectors or their rubber 'seal' might be damaged and if it's exhaust, it might just be bad injectors.

It was actually strongest in the cabin (although i had the window down). I didn't smell from the exhaust at all (but i wasn't down there).

[james 408]

fuel or vacuum/boost issue. could also be electrical, like a crank position sensor or maf or something. Given the codes your getting are just misfires, I'd suspect vacuum/boost first.

Pressure test the air side would be my first step. Doesn't really explain the fuel smell, so that would be a likely second step, tracing the fuel lines for leaks -- in my experience a visual inspection once you smell gas is a good way to narrow it down pretty quick, usually easy to find as long as it isn't raining.

If you need to move it, you can just tow strap from the hook off the trunk floor (under rear bumper). Not really sure what it's for, but i've towed FRS' up near vertical 7 foot ditches over stumps while the retard left it in park from that hook, and I was on a steep hill to boot.

[bshanna]

When my CPS went out on my B6 (i changed that on the side of the road) i definitely got codes specific to that? Seemed like it just stopped starting all together but who knows there :/

I'm a little limited with it being at my work garage. The gas is new i think and the lighting is bad but i can definitely check.

That's do-able, although i'll need to do it off hours as it's backed into a spot right now. Finding a buddy with a truck that fits in the garage is my next step, i think.

[james 408]

every car's got the same crap under the trunk floor. Just grab a tow strap, you can get it wherever you need just reversing and using any car whatsoever to tow it to a spot you can get a proper tow truck to. My miata's yanked 240s out of ditches from that hook.

And yes usually CPS' are all or nothing, and accompany a code. Maf's, egts, 02s on the other hand, are not -- but usually won't result in stalling. But like I said, I'd start air, then go fuel, before going to spark given the symptoms, but that's me. The number of times i've blown boost hoses causing those exact symptoms (although strong fuel smell in the cabin is possibly from rich, it's also possible you got a fuel issue).

[destrolock]

g28 crankshaft sensor

[bshanna]

every car's got the same crap under the trunk floor. Just grab a tow strap, you can get it wherever you need just reversing and using any car whatsoever to tow it to a spot you can get a proper tow truck to. My miata's yanked 240s out of ditches from that hook.

And yes usually CPS' are all or nothing, and accompany a code. Maf's, egts, 02s on the other hand, are not -- but usually won't result in stalling. But like I said, I'd start air, then go fuel, before going to spark given the symptoms, but that's me. The number of times i've blown boost hoses causing those exact symptoms (although strong fuel smell in the cabin is possibly from rich, it's also possible you got a fuel issue).

g28 crankshaft sensor

I see no codes relating to the crankshaft sensor - my b6 threw pretty explicit codes and wouldn't start? I think i'm just going to call a tow truck tomorrow, i don't really have time to deal with this honestly :( ... hopefully can tow it out of this garage without issues. Turns over but doesn't catch anymore at all...

[low3.slow]

I’m a AAA roadside tech and believe me, those tow drivers can get a car out of anywhere haha but just from my experience I had an old Nissan that I was chasing a problem just like that for EVER and it ended up being a coolant temp sensor that would completely freak out and tell the computer it was EXTREMELY cold causing the car to flood the engine with gas, thus stalling it out. Also came across this again when I was a Mitsubishi tech once. Neither car threw temp sensor codes but both had misfires, sounds similar, that’s just my experience


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[bshanna]

I see you're in denver, any suggestions for a good tow driver who can get the car out? :P

Interesting on the coolant temp sensor. I'm really not up for trying to repair much in the garage at this point though and i'd rather get this car on the road :/

[low3.slow]

Not off the top of my head, I can really only vouch for the AAA guys I work with, a lot of them have been doing it for 20+ years. If the car is on a lower level of the garage I think they send out 2 trucks. An F150 to pull it up and out, and a flat bed to actually tow it, because the flatbeds clearance is 8ft I believe. If it’s on a top level, they’ll neutral bomb it down the garage.


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[bshanna]

Yeah, i've got the reference of one place, Wes's Towing in Arvada, was going to give them a call.

I have a couple friends who have offered to help pull the car out as you described but i really don't want to put the stress on friends in case something happens :/

[bshanna]

i've also yet to locate the actual front tow hook, as far as i can see behind the fog grille covers is the intercoolers and shrouds :/

[low3.slow]

Yeah most tow truck drives should be able to get it without any problem. I’ve heard stories of cars in underground parking lots with no way of getting the car in neutral but they were able to get it out haha. I think behind the pass side grill cover there should be a little empty area you can thread the tow hook, your car came with, into. I’m from a b6 so mines a little different, hopefully a b5 guy can chime in. On another note, whenever the cars up and running again, I’d love to come and check out a real b5 RS4 sometime!


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[armageddon-]

To check cps see with vcds if rpms climbs when cranking.
To check cts compare with vcds the temperature between ecu and cluster using the correct groups on vcds.

Check fuel hose from pump to tank lid.

[bshanna]

Fuel pump was bad. After more shenanigans with town trucks that came and couldn't fit into the garage even though i specifically told them the height, we pulled it out with a truck and got it on a flatbed to the shop. After a fuel pump swap and a nasty ass fuel filter change as well, back to running. We'll see what's next on this car

I did successfully find my tow hook and place to screw it in behind the passenger fog vent as suggested :)

[JustManson]

How bad was the fuel pump swap?




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[bshanna]

How bad was the fuel pump swap?

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About 900 bucks bad parts, labour, and tow lol... i sadly don't have the time to work on these things myself these days :( The actual job doesn't look bad and is pretty quick IMO (Based on youtube videos i had watched deciding whether or not i wanted to try to do it in the work garage). Had to retrofit a S4 pump (which should be okay.. i know people obviously run pretty high hp on the stock S4 pump) but the RS4 pump is a 6-8 week wait from Germany...

[poor.decision]

I had a feeling it would’ve been fuel pump related. Wish I saw this sooner. Most of the time you’d be able to get away with light taps on the fuel tank with a rubber mallet to get the pump going again for a bit. Hopefully to get you out of a sticky situation like being stuck in a parking garage. I drove 90+ miles home from CT to NYC pulling over every so often and banging the tank. Good times. Good times.


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[bshanna]

i wish too :( Where is the fuel tank on these things?

[poor.decision]

In the rear directly under the rear seat. You can’t really see much of it because it’s tucked up behind the rear subframe. You can see a bit of the left side and a bit of the right side.


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