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  1. #41
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhanson View Post
    In fact - the ride in dynamic was almost nauseating. I find it hard to describe, basically uncomfortably harsh but also had this artificial floating sensation as well. While itís on rails around corners it otherwise has one of the worst rides Iíve ever experienced.
    I believe turdzi has an RS4. The RS4 is tuned a little different than the RS5 and it's a station wagon. I think the B9s character works well for a station wagon. I agree with you, nobody who buys a 2-door coupe looks for practicality all that much or a sensible car and expects something a little more bonkers than the B9 RS5 I think. I can understand that some like it, because they are probably mostly commuting to work or don't really have fun roads around them, so low end torque street light to street light acceleration and the occasional onramp is about all the fun that can be had.

    Regarding the suspension, I didn't notice the float, but yes for anything other than fast driving, Dynamic mode is super harsh. I do actually kinda like that. It provided great body control flying through the canyons at high speed, but as soon as I hit a slow section it was pretty much unbearable. So my biggest issue wasn't that it was harsh in Dynamic, but that there is no dedicated button to quickly adjust the suspension setting. I love that in the AMGs and Ms. I found myself having to cumbersomely go back and forward between Individual with a softer suspension setting and Dynamic depending on the road.

    The AMG and M cars are pretty harsh in Sport+, too, but it's much easier to adjust the suspension w/o having to adjust the overall mode every time. I also like how with the new C63 S you can just push the drive mode selector dial on the steering wheel and it immediately activates Individual mode and then when you push it again it goes back to the previous mode. With Audi you always have to cycle through the modes and I can never seem to remember which direction is faster to get to the mode I want, especially if I'm flying through the canyons and wanna quickly adjust something and as opposed to the R8 and TTRS, you can't adjust the mode from the steering wheel unless you program it to the * button, but then you end up cycling all the way around to get to the next mode. That's just more thought out in the AMG where now there are buttons and dials on the steering wheel to control all the driving aspects.

    I did read some German magazine reviews about the RS5, and one thing they complained about was that the Dynamic suspension mode on the Autobahn was pretty terrible at high speeds to the point where the car was not very confidence inspiring. You also kinda see that in the Motortrend head to head between the C63 S Coupe and the B9 RS5 where they did a high speed run. The C63 S stayed rock solid at those speeds, where as Lieberman was starting to get scared in the RS5 and had to dial it back as the car was kinda going all over. So, in the canyons the suspension did work for me pretty well, but the lack of ease of adjustability is kind of a show stopper and knowing that it kinda falls apart at higher speeds isn't very confidence inspiring especially since I'm going to do European Delivery and now that's a no-go anyway with Audi killing the program at the end of this year.
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  2. #42
    Veteran Member Three Rings Johnhanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    I believe turdzi has an RS4. The RS4 is tuned a little different than the RS5 and it's a station wagon. I think the B9s character works well for a station wagon. I agree with you, nobody who buys a 2-door coupe looks for practicality all that much or a sensible car and expects something a little more bonkers than the B9 RS5 I think. I can understand that some like it, because they are probably mostly commuting to work or don't really have fun roads around them, so low end torque street light to street light acceleration and the occasional onramp is about all the fun that can be had.

    Regarding the suspension, I didn't notice the float, but yes for anything other than fast driving, Dynamic mode is super harsh. I do actually kinda like that. It provided great body control flying through the canyons at high speed, but as soon as I hit a slow section it was pretty much unbearable. So my biggest issue wasn't that it was harsh in Dynamic, but that there is no dedicated button to quickly adjust the suspension setting. I love that in the AMGs and Ms. I found myself having to cumbersomely go back and forward between Individual with a softer suspension setting and Dynamic depending on the road.

    The AMG and M cars are pretty harsh in Sport+, too, but it's much easier to adjust the suspension w/o having to adjust the overall mode every time. I also like how with the new C63 S you can just push the drive mode selector dial on the steering wheel and it immediately activates Individual mode and then when you push it again it goes back to the previous mode. With Audi you always have to cycle through the modes and I can never seem to remember which direction is faster to get to the mode I want, especially if I'm flying through the canyons and wanna quickly adjust something and as opposed to the R8 and TTRS, you can't adjust the mode from the steering wheel unless you program it to the * button, but then you end up cycling all the way around to get to the next mode. That's just more thought out in the AMG where now there are buttons and dials on the steering wheel to control all the driving aspects.

    I did read some German magazine reviews about the RS5, and one thing they complained about was that the Dynamic suspension mode on the Autobahn was pretty terrible at high speeds to the point where the car was not very confidence inspiring. You also kinda see that in the Motortrend head to head between the C63 S Coupe and the B9 RS5 where they did a high speed run. The C63 S stayed rock solid at those speeds, where as Lieberman was starting to get scared in the RS5 and had to dial it back as the car was kinda going all over. So, in the canyons the suspension did work for me pretty well, but the lack of ease of adjustability is kind of a show stopper and knowing that it kinda falls apart at higher speeds isn't very confidence inspiring especially since I'm going to do European Delivery and now that's a no-go anyway with Audi killing the program at the end of this year.
    Yeah that totally makes sense. The RS5ís dynamics would translate well to a station wagon.

    Iíve had my car at 280kph and the only thing scary was how confidence inspiring it was. The feeling of sinking lower to the road and a tightened steering wheel is amazing. I had the B9 RS5 to (hidden ;) ) kph and I certainly did not feel confident. It actually felt like my old X6 50i when I would hit 230-240 and the front end started to float a bit. Understandable in a 450hp SUV...not in a flagship performance car.


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  3. #43
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    I believe turdzi has an RS4. The RS4 is tuned a little different than the RS5 and it's a station wagon. I think the B9s character works well for a station wagon. I agree with you, nobody who buys a 2-door coupe looks for practicality all that much or a sensible car and expects something a little more bonkers than the B9 RS5 I think. I can understand that some like it, because they are probably mostly commuting to work or don't really have fun roads around them, so low end torque street light to street light acceleration and the occasional onramp is about all the fun that can be had.

    Regarding the suspension, I didn't notice the float, but yes for anything other than fast driving, Dynamic mode is super harsh. I do actually kinda like that. It provided great body control flying through the canyons at high speed, but as soon as I hit a slow section it was pretty much unbearable. So my biggest issue wasn't that it was harsh in Dynamic, but that there is no dedicated button to quickly adjust the suspension setting. I love that in the AMGs and Ms. I found myself having to cumbersomely go back and forward between Individual with a softer suspension setting and Dynamic depending on the road.

    The AMG and M cars are pretty harsh in Sport+, too, but it's much easier to adjust the suspension w/o having to adjust the overall mode every time. I also like how with the new C63 S you can just push the drive mode selector dial on the steering wheel and it immediately activates Individual mode and then when you push it again it goes back to the previous mode. With Audi you always have to cycle through the modes and I can never seem to remember which direction is faster to get to the mode I want, especially if I'm flying through the canyons and wanna quickly adjust something and as opposed to the R8 and TTRS, you can't adjust the mode from the steering wheel unless you program it to the * button, but then you end up cycling all the way around to get to the next mode. That's just more thought out in the AMG where now there are buttons and dials on the steering wheel to control all the driving aspects.
    Totally agree. Drive Select is find in a regular car not a sports car when you want instant access to adjust suspension or other things.
    Even Giulia QV has a separate button for suspension so you can adjust it in click not several operations.

    When it comes to suspension in Dynamic I actually don't think that it's that bad. In my wife's Fiesta ST it was a lot worse.It was almost unbearable but it might happen that again RS4 has a different calibration.I drive in Auto most of the time and think it is a good compromise but it lacks some body control when you begin to push it to hard than you have to switch to Dynamic.
    I remember some time ago I drove A45 AMG with some AMG pack and I remember that suspension on that car was like a concert. It is the only thing I remember about that car. Dynamic in B9 is definitely not that hard but it is on the hard side so it is not perfectly suitable for day driving.Thankfully Auto and Comfort do the job.
    MY18 B9 Audi RS4 Avant / MY14 Fiesta ST

  4. #44
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Sad to see yesterday's hearo being beaten up badly by a 2.0T It is a bit embarrassing when you consider that the RS4 B7 is not that old and has twice the engine size.
    MY18 B9 Audi RS4 Avant / MY14 Fiesta ST

  5. #45
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post

    Sad to see yesterday's hearo being beaten up badly by a 2.0T It is a bit embarrassing when you consider that the RS4 B7 is not that old and has twice the engine size.
    Again, they are using the B7 instead of the B8 and chose a clearly poor driver. The B7 RS4 can do the 1/4 mile in 13.1 seconds. The B8 RS4 does it in 12.4s. It would have handsomely beaten this S3. The B7 V8 doesn't develop peak torque until 5000 rpm, whereas the B8 V8 does it at 4000 rpm. Then there is the launch control and S-tronic in the B8. Not sure what they are trying to demonstrate here other than S-tronic with launch control can outrun a more powerful, 2 generations old car with a manual gearbox and a mediocre driver.

    The other thing is the second part of the video. I didn't say anything about this on your previous video, but somebody here does not get the high-revving engine concept. The point of high-revving engines is that they make power using revs and use more aggressive gearing to make the wheel torque. One of the main things people miss is that torque is easily manipulated using gearing. Starting both cars in 3rd gear shows incompetence. A high-revving car must generally been driven a gear lower compared to a turbo charged car. Still it pulled on the S3, but had they done it right, it would have pulled even more.

    I like watching this guy's reviews. He's pretty good and entertaining, but this video and your previous were deliberately staged.

    BTW, here's a good video on the physics of torque vs. horsepower and why high-revving, higher horsepower cars can use more aggressive gearing to make the necessary wheel torque and be faster than a car with more torque, but less horsepower if driven properly.

    Last edited by superswiss; 11-05-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Well the essence of a truly fast sports car is that is fast anny time and anywhere. You just step on it and it's goes without thinking about what gear you are in and so on.
    Easy accessible on road performance that's what matters in real live and I'm sorry but V8 N/A in B7 and B8 just don't have it.

    I have no doubt that you probably would keep up from rolling start or be little bit faster if you do not have a lot of carbon build up but that's just a S3 men. RS3 would absolutely demolished you.
    MY18 B9 Audi RS4 Avant / MY14 Fiesta ST

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    Well the essence of a truly fast sports car is that is fast anny time and anywhere. You just step on it and it's goes without thinking about what gear you are in and so on.
    Easy accessible on road performance that's what matters in real live and I'm sorry but V8 N/A in B7 and B8 just don't have it.

    I have no doubt that you probably would keep up from rolling start or be little bit faster if you do not have a lot of carbon build up but that's just a S3 men. RS3 would absolutely demolished you.
    We simply have different expectations from a performance/sport car. Absolute performance is just one side. As I said earlier, I'm going 500+ HP biturbo next. I've placed my order for the '19 C63 S Coupe the other day. The essence of my reasoning couldn't have been stated better as in the following article.

    Best to leave it in Sport for the increased throttle response and sharper steering, because the C63 S actually feels energized and engaged at legal speeds, which is not always the case with the high-output competition.
    http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/223...r-berg-circuit

    The article is an interesting read even if you are not interested in the C63 specifically, but for its musing on the future of the performance car and the appeal of cars like the C63 and the B8 RS5.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    That's good for you.You will see how much more car you will get with low end torque in C63.
    Don't get me wrong 4.2 FSI is a great engine for a mid engine or RWD sports car like R8 especially with 6MT but for a havey coupe or wagon with AWD is such a mist concept.Same applies to 5.2 FSI in S8 D8.
    I just don't understand what thay were thinking.
    MY18 B9 Audi RS4 Avant / MY14 Fiesta ST

  9. #49
    Established Member Four Rings Ape Factory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    Well the essence of a truly fast sports car is that is fast anny time and anywhere. You just step on it and it's goes without thinking about what gear you are in and so on.
    Easy accessible on road performance that's what matters in real live and I'm sorry but V8 N/A in B7 and B8 just don't have it.

    I have no doubt that you probably would keep up from rolling start or be little bit faster if you do not have a lot of carbon build up but that's just a S3 men. RS3 would absolutely demolished you.

    Every car has a usable power band window. I test drove the S3 several times (RS3 wasn't out yet) before purchasing an RS5 and their power band windows are completely inverse. The S3 is flat on top where the RS5 keeps pulling. Both are about half a second within one and other of the 1/4 mile, mostly due to the S3's lower weight, and without a stopwatch, they feel similarly quick albeit in a far different way. But the RS5's window is 4000 rpm and change. No different from a lot of other high performance cars on the market.

    I'm pretty sure that B7 had some miles on it too. And notice from a roll, it was the quicker car. Tthe magic of launch control and a DSG gearbox. Something the B8 RS4/5 has.

    As for the RS3, I've had the pleasure of tailing one on B roads through the countryside (actually it was a TTRS) and I had zero issue keeping up even on the straights. This was a non-passing situation. Now add a tune to one and it'd probably be a different story.

    I had a chance to go over a B9 RS5 yesterday and it was a real "meh" moment. I want to like it because it's an RS but it really does nothing for me. In some ways, aesthetically, it reminds me of a Toyota.
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  10. #50
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    That's good for you.You will see how much more car you will get with low end torque in C63.
    Don't get me wrong 4.2 FSI is a great engine for a mid engine or RWD sports car like R8 especially with 6MT but for a havey coupe or wagon with AWD is such a mist concept.Same applies to 5.2 FSI in S8 D8.
    I just don't understand what thay were thinking.
    Well, I'm guessing you really don't have all that much experience with high-revving engines. I'm well aware of how the C63 is different from my RS5. It's more car, because it's more power, but low end torque vs high end power is just a difference of how the cars are setup. The C63 makes low to mid power/torque, but dies at the top like most turbo/supercharged engines including the B9. Power caves before redline. The RS5 continues making more and more power all the way to redline. I'm generally more about the top end. The C63 is just different. I don't dismiss either one. I take advantage of the strength of each, but I have my preference. There's nothing wrong with the 4.2 in the RS5 or the V10 in S8. It's a very exciting driving experience and they did it deliberately. The Audi Sport Chief Engineer said they deliberately chose this engine for the RS5, because there is nothing more emotional than a high revving V8 or bigger engine. I don't think it fits as well in a station wagon, but a GT coupe is a different story.

    You may not be aware, but I have the privilege of driving many cars. I've driven the entire current RS line up, R8 V10 Coupe and Spyder and the V10 Plus. All for many miles, not just a test drive around the block. I've experienced them in the canyons for 1000s of miles. I've also taken an S3 on a long road trip into the mountains to have some fun and driven other lesser Audis. They each have their strength, but none of them really did it for me like my RS5. I'm still bittersweet about getting rid of it in favor of the C63. I'm actually not even sure yet if I'm gonna sell it.

    To each their own, but every car is designed for a purpose and has its strength and weakness. Each of us has personal preferences, but at the end of the day an enthusiast likes them all and a good, passionate driver makes the best out of every car. They are all fun to drive in their own way, but there are only certain cars I'm willing to spend money on to own. The B9 RS cars are not among them. They just don't give me pleasure like the B8 RS5, the R8 and the C63 do to name a few and I'm not some kind of an outlier. The B9 RS4 is better received, but the B9 RS5 is generally met with lukewarm enthusiasm from many. Some really like it, but generally people don't get all that excited about it.

    Very different if you read reviews of the M and AMGs cars. They are pretty much universally praised. People know and accept what an M and AMG is supposed to be and they are uniquely different from their lesser siblings. The B9 RS5 supposedly being the "GT" conflicts with the S5 that is already fulfilling that mission and with the fundamental definition of a GT and the fact that the M4 and C63 are by definition GTs as well. Being a GT is really not a differentiator in this segment, but Audi Marketing thinks it is.
    Last edited by superswiss; 11-06-2018 at 12:57 PM.
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  11. #51
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Well, I'm guessing you really don't have all that much experience with high-revving engines. I'm well aware of how the C63 is different from my RS5. It's more car, because it's more power, but low end torque vs high end power is just a difference of how the cars are setup. The C63 makes low to mid power/torque, but dies at the top like most turbo/supercharged engines including the B9. Power caves before redline. The RS5 continues making more and more power all the way to redline. I'm generally more about the top end. The C63 is just different. I don't dismiss either one. I take advantage of the strength of each, but I have my preference. There's nothing wrong with the 4.2 in the RS5 or the V10 in S8. It's a very exciting driving experience and they did it deliberately. The Audi Sport Chief Engineer said they deliberately chose this engine for the RS5, because there is nothing more emotional than a high revving V8 or bigger engine. I don't think it fits as well in a station wagon, but a GT coupe is a different story.

    You may not be aware, but I have the privilege of driving many cars. I've driven the entire current RS line up, R8 V10 Coupe and Spyder and the V10 Plus. All for many miles, not just a test drive around the block. I've experienced them in the canyons for 1000s of miles. I've also taken an S3 on a long road trip into the mountains to have some fun and driven other lesser Audis. They each have their strength, but none of them really did it for me like my RS5. I'm still bittersweet about getting rid of it in favor of the C63. I'm actually not even sure yet if I'm gonna sell it.

    To each their own, but every car is designed for a purpose and has its strength and weakness. Each of us has personal preferences, but at the end of the day an enthusiast likes them all and a good, passionate driver makes the best out of every car. They are all fun to drive in their own way, but there are only certain cars I'm willing to spend money on to own. The B9 RS cars are not among them. They just don't give me pleasure like the B8 RS5, the R8 and the C63 do to name a few and I'm not some kind of an outlier. The B9 RS4 is better received, but the B9 RS5 is generally met with lukewarm enthusiasm from many. Some really like it, but generally people don't get all that excited about it.

    Very different if you read reviews of the M and AMGs cars. They are pretty much universally praised. People know and accept what an M and AMG is supposed to be and they are uniquely different from their lesser siblings. The B9 RS5 supposedly being the "GT" conflicts with the S5 that is already fulfilling that mission and with the fundamental definition of a GT and the fact that the M4 and C63 are by definition GTs as well. Being a GT is really not a differentiator in this segment, but Audi Marketing thinks it is.
    I have also driven R8 V10 Plus and it surprise me that you put RS5 B8 and V10 in the same bag. Those are to completely different cars delivering completely different driving experience. Only one common thing for those to is high reving engine.I actually rate second gen TTRS higher than RS5 B8 as well as a more rewording and nimble car to drive with better steering.

    When it comes to M and AMGs cars I do agree that they are positioned better in the model range with less confusion but that's mainly because B9 gen is a better all rounder with better comfort on day to day basis.If thay would differentiate it more thay probably would destroy its biggest strength - comfort.With that being said there are differences between S and RS models in B9 range , you just have to push the car a little bit more to see it.

    Overall all comes to preferences I guess.You buy a Merc course current Audi Sport products are not good enough for you at the other end I could not be more happy course after some 10 years of waiting I finally could buy RS wagon.Life goes on and everybody wins.
    MY18 B9 Audi RS4 Avant / MY14 Fiesta ST

  12. #52
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    I have also driven R8 V10 Plus and it surprise me that you put RS5 B8 and V10 in the same bag. Those are to completely different cars delivering completely different driving experience. Only one common thing for those to is high reving engine.I actually rate second gen TTRS higher than RS5 B8 as well as a more rewording and nimble car to drive with better steering.

    Take it from professional race car driver Randy Pobst who put it best in the following article:

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/merc...07-comparison/

    Given how high Randy was on the 507, we figured the less powerful, heavier RS 5 had no shot. We couldn't have been more wrong. Posting a best lap of 1:42.97, it was 0.48 second quicker, but Randy's comments suggested more like 4.8 seconds. "The R8 should be half this good! This car is fantastic. I adore it. It does such a great job utilizing all-wheel-drive traction off the corner, with zero push. You just drive in there and you think it's too early, but you just floor it and you're like, man, I should've gotten on the gas sooner. And no push, no oversteer -- it just drives right out of there, beautifully carving an exit line, using all the power. The gearbox is also very friendly. I just got more confident with carrying speed in and trusting the grip."
    Yes, the RS5 and R8 are different cars, but they share DNA. The V8 is based on the V10 and the engine is what largely defines the character of a car. It's actually 80% of the V10, but there are really two main issues with the R8 for me other than the obvious every day and road trip practicality of the RS5. The first issue is what Randy is describing. The quattro system in the R8 pretty much kinda sucks. He is specially talking about the Gen 1, but the Gen 2 isn't really any better. It has terrible understeer and trying to get it to oversteer results in sudden snap oversteer with little to no warning. The base Lamborghini Huracan suffers unsurprisingly from the same issues. Lambo fixed it with the Performante and the R8 V10 Plus is also a bit better thanks to the fixed suspension and the Performance mode. The MagRide is actually part of the problem.

    The other issue with the R8 is usable power/performance. As with most supercars, their limits are so high that outside of the track you find yourself having to hold back and can never really experience the full potential of the car. Many folks including me think that about 450 hp is the sweet spot for a usable street performance car. I can take my RS5 to the limits in the canyons, where as with the R8 I have to hold back and it results in a somewhat disappointing experience. There is a good saying that captures this. "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is to drive a fast car slow". If I were to get an R8, it would have to be the R8 RWS.

    As for the TTRS I have two main issues as well with it and by extension the RS3. First issue is the turbo lag. This 5 cylinder engine has quite the turbo lag. On the tight, windy canyon roads where I like to have fun with my cars, it doesn't quite get going. As opposed to my RS5 and the R8, which immediately respond thanks to their NA engines, by the time the TTRS turbo is finally spun up, it's time to slow down for the next corner, so it never quite gets going other than brief surges between corners. With both the RS5 and the R8 I can dive into a corner, downshift at 6000 rpm to keep the engine in the powerband and then immediately power out with no delay or lag. It's intoxicating quite frankly. This is something I'm a little worried about with the C63, but the Hot Vee design with the smaller turbos is almost as responsive as a naturally aspirated engine. The second part is also the quattro system. The car is nimble thanks to its lighter weight, but the FWD biased Haldex system is overall disappointing. It drives like an FWD car with tons of grip. You can't rotate it under power and if you try, it just starts to push over the front wheels. So the MQB platform is in general not my cup of tea. I prefer a car that's being pushed around the corner (RWD or rear-biased AWD) and not pulled (FWD or FWD-biased AWD). Very different driving dynamics between the two.
    Last edited by superswiss; 11-06-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Take it from professional race car driver Randy Pobst who put it best in the following article:

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/merc...07-comparison/
    Thats not necessarily tell much a part of again personal presence.

    Chris Harris on the other hand hates B8 RS chassis for all the same reasons as me and as we all know he is a excellent journalist , driver and a par time racing driver as well.





    But it has to be said that I like Randy Pobs as well :)

    When it comes to FWD , RWD of rear biased AWD I'm with you on that one but there are some FWD cars which can give a lot of fun as well.
    One of them is Fiesta ST and I would actually claim that it gives more fun than half of Audi Sport product even though it has half HP in most cases and it is only FWD.Key to that is light body, super quick steering and very adjustable chassis. A kind of chassis that also TTRS and RS3 has.
    Yes you can not rotate them with the throttle a part of wet and snow but you can rotate them using balance and lift of oversteer.Thay won't oversteer in traditional way but thay are fun to drive as well.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    Thats not necessarily tell much a part of again personal presence.

    Chris Harris on the other hand hates B8 RS chassis for all the same reasons as me and as we all know he is a excellent journalist , driver and a par time racing driver as well.

    But it has to be said that I like Randy Pobs as well :)

    When it comes to FWD , RWD of rear biased AWD I'm with you on that one but there are some FWD cars which can give a lot of fun as well.
    One of them is Fiesta ST and I would actually claim that it gives more fun than half of Audi Sport product even though it has half HP in most cases and it is only FWD.Key to that is light body, super quick steering and very adjustable chassis. A kind of chassis that also TTRS and RS3 has.
    Yes you can not rotate them with the throttle a part of wet and snow but you can rotate them using balance and lift of oversteer.Thay won't oversteer in traditional way but thay are fun to drive as well.
    Chris Harris doesn't like Audi, period. He pissed all over the R8 and doesn't have much good to say about them in general. I don't think I've seen him do a review on the B9 yet, though. He tweeted this last year, though.

    Looking at the new RS5, wondering why it looks like it's just crashed through a cheap jewellery shop. Then remembered who the new boss is
    Yes, there are some great FWD cars with smart AWD systems that allow drifting. Audi generally believes in stability. It was surprising the first time I found myself sideways in the RS5 after taking delivery in Germany. The B9 is much less tail happy, so they reign the sport differential back in to the Audi business suit attitude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Chris Harris doesn't like Audi, period. He pissed all over the R8 and doesn't have much good to say about them in general. I don't think I've seen him do a review on the B9 yet, though. He tweeted this last year, though.



    Yes, there are some great FWD cars with smart AWD systems that allow drifting. Audi generally believes in stability. It was surprising the first time I found myself sideways in the RS5 after taking delivery in Germany. The B9 is much less tail happy, so they reign the sport differential back in to the Audi business suit attitude.
    Not in RS4 B9 at least. Its very tail happy ( as for an Audi ) on both power oversteer and lift off oversteer.
    I can put it properly sideways on both wet and dry but that's probably due to different calibration and slightly different settings between RS4 and RS5 and main reason why most of journalists prefer handling characteristic of RS4.
    That's also a main reason I assume why I absolutely love it an RS5 didn't do it for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Chris Harris doesn't like Audi, period. He pissed all over the R8 and doesn't have much good to say about them in general. I don't think I've seen him do a review on the B9 yet, though. He tweeted this last year, though
    He did like some of them and actually owned RS4 B7

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    Quote Originally Posted by turdzi View Post
    He did like some of them and actually owned RS4 B7
    Yes, I know. He isn't quite the Jeremy Clarkson Audi hater. Him owning a B7 RS4 is kinda puzzling, though, given how an understeering pig the B7 chassis is and all the DRC leaking issues they had. I've owned a B7 S4, but passed on the RS4. Not to mention the awful carbon deposit issues of those first generation direct injection engines. I like him, but you definitely have to factor in his bias. At least in the later part of his life he's been a sucker for the M3/4 and the 911. He also loves AMGs equally, especially the C63, so he's my kind of guy there . It's all for the same reasons. These cars go properly sideways. In what recent video hasn't he been at least trying to drift every car he reviews and complaints if it doesn't want to go sideways? His opinions kinda come down to "car going sideways = good car, car not going sideways = bad car". I'm pretty sure he won't like the B9. It'll be too clinical for him. I am somewhat leaning his way more and more. The RS6/7 were monsters. Large pigs, but monsters and that made them stand out. Hard to find anything with the current RS models that stands out and is truly innovative, whereas the B8 RS5 introduced a whole new generation of quattro system with crown gear center diff and torque vectoring on top of the B8 S4 introducing the sport differential. Audi hasn't come out with anything lately that furthers driving dynamics. They just tweaked what they already had and dialed it back. The latest quattro invention was quattro ultra which is not at all about furthering driving dynamics, but to reduce fuel consumption by a tiny amount.

    I'll admit, I've definitely become quite cynical lately with Audi. Emissions cheating, the B9, cancelling the European Delivery Program and then Audi on Demand here in the USA. The brand has definitely soured me, which is a shame. I've owned Audis longer than any other brand.
    Last edited by superswiss; 11-07-2018 at 03:41 PM.
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    Well many if not all journalist that tested both B9 RS4 and C7 RS6 means that RS4 is even more enjoyable to drive due to its lover weigh smaller size and more agile handling.
    Taking in consideration that Chris Harris liked RS6 I can not see a reason why he wouldn't like RS4.
    I've drove both and despite lover figures went with RS4 even though i could get RS6 in the see $$$.Thay dropt like rocks lately but for me as for the others RS4 givs more fun.I do not like big and fat wehicels like RS6 but it's a great car as well. Probably one of the best RS products of all time and despite age still looks like a boss.

    But over all if you are after a fast family wagon with all weather performance and AWD course where yuo live either snows or reins a halv of year there are not many cars to choose from.
    If you are gÚing to use your car where is worm and dry most of the time and you want a coupe honesty RS5 wouldn't be my pick as well.In that segment there is plenty of choice.


    And again some fresh thoughts from "BMW" guy

    Last edited by turdzi; 11-08-2018 at 02:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    ..... He also loves AMGs equally, especially the C63, so he's my kind of guy there . ....
    Autoweek (Oct 8) had a very nice review of the 2019 C63 coupe, but the tail end, what was Mercedes thinking? It looks like a Toyota Solara (2 door Camry), except they fixed the tailights. The 2019 C63 sedan a looks a bit better.





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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhan View Post
    Autoweek (Oct 8) had a very nice review of the 2019 C63 coupe, but the tail end, what was Mercedes thinking? It looks like a Toyota Solara (2 door Camry), except they fixed the tailights. The 2019 C63 sedan a looks a bit better.
    I haven't read/seen a bad review yet. Universal praise pretty much from all corners. Design is always personal taste I suppose. Have you seen them in person? Like with many cars, the pictures don't really do it justice. Looks very low, wide and menacing in person. For some reason it looks taller and bigger to me in pictures for example. The sedan looks a bit like a shrunk S-Class and it's lacking the wider track and fenders, which sets the coupe apart visually. The coupe has much more road presence and you won't mistake it for a Toyota . I'm also getting the new AMG Aerodynamics Package, which is exclusive to the coupe and sets it visually apart even more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    The sedan looks a bit like a shrunk S-Class and it's lacking the wider track and fenders, which sets the coupe apart visually. The coupe has much more road presence and you won't mistake it for a Toyota . I'm also getting the new AMG Aerodynamics Package, which is exclusive to the coupe and sets it visually apart even more.
    Jepp totally agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhan View Post
    Autoweek (Oct 8) had a very nice review of the 2019 C63 coupe, but the tail end, what was Mercedes thinking? It looks like a Toyota Solara (2 door Camry), except they fixed the tailights. The 2019 C63 sedan a looks a bit better.





    C63 sedan:
    That sedan definitely looks better than the coupe to me. I don't care for the back end of the coupe. From that view the sedan looks more aggressive and sporty. The coupe almost looks feminine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanseric21 View Post
    That sedan definitely looks better than the coupe to me. I don't care for the back end of the coupe. From that view the sedan looks more aggressive and sporty. The coupe almost looks feminine.
    These things are totally subjective. I saw and drove a white '18 coupe and a white '18 sedan. Both were C63 S and the coupe looks way more sporty and aggressive overall. The Areo package will set it apart even more, especially the rear. There are a number of things that pull me over to the coupe. Being the GT, at least up till the '18, the coupe is deliberately and noticeably more comfortable in comfort mode than the sedan. Quite noticeably so. Not sure if that's still gonna be the case with the '19. The suspension is retuned and made even more conformable and they may have brought the sedan in line with the coupe. But the coupe continues to have a wider track and is lower, so better handling overall. However, most importantly for me, the sedans are made in Alabama, so no European Delivery and I'm not very keen on buying a German car assembled in the USA anyway. The coupe is still made in Affalterbach, Germany.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    These things are totally subjective. I saw and drove a white '18 coupe and a white '18 sedan. Both were C63 S and the coupe looks way more sporty and aggressive overall. The Areo package will set it apart even more, especially the rear. There are a number of things that pull me over to the coupe. Being the GT, at least up till the '18, the coupe is deliberately and noticeably more comfortable in comfort mode than the sedan. Quite noticeably so. Not sure if that's still gonna be the case with the '19. The suspension is retuned and made even more conformable and they may have brought the sedan in line with the coupe. But the coupe continues to have a wider track and is lower, so better handling overall. However, most importantly for me, the sedans are made in Alabama, so no European Delivery and I'm not very keen on buying a German car assembled in the USA anyway. The coupe is still made in Affalterbach, Germany.
    You don't have to try and convince me. I think the sedan looks better. I'm not a fan of coupes. I'm not sure where the car was built really matters given the manufacturing process is the same regardless of where it's located as Mercedes has to approve it.
    I don't care for any of the C class AMGs honestly. I hate the ipad infotainment system just like I hate it inside the RS5. That's my only complaint about the Audi though. I have other complaints about Mercedes. I prefer Audi's interior over the Mercedes. If I was to go that route I would get the AMG E53 as the E63s is more then I would want to spend.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HVv5m1vqvs

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanseric21 View Post
    You don't have to try and convince me. I think the sedan looks better. I'm not a fan of coupes. I'm not sure where the car was built really matters given the manufacturing process is the same regardless of where it's located as Mercedes has to approve it.
    I don't care for any of the C class AMGs honestly. I hate the ipad infotainment system just like I hate it inside the RS5. That's my only complaint about the Audi though. I have other complaints about Mercedes. I prefer Audi's interior over the Mercedes. If I was to go that route I would get the AMG E53 as the E63s is more then I would want to spend.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HVv5m1vqvs
    Not trying to convince you at all. Some like sedans, others like coupes and each brand tries to capture part of a segment. Not everybody likes AMG and BMW M and Audi Sport. The only sedan I've ever owned was my '07 S4 and I only got it because Audi didn't sell a coupe in North America at the time. Regarding assembly location, it does indeed matter. I've had this conversation before many times. I've managed teams from different cultures in my professional live. You can teach hard skills (using a tool), but you can't teach soft skills (recognize that something doesn't look right). Germans are very detail oriented. Somebody once posted a line from his dad, who was a builder. It went something like this. You can teach somebody to use a hammer, but if they don't see that the staircase is crooked, they can't be helped. Germans have an eye for detail. That's not an American mentality at all, nor a Mexican given Audi's factory in Mexico for the Q5. I am from the German part of Europe. There's a huge difference in detail orientation and you can see it in the build quality of things. The chassis and body are built by robots, so there won't be much difference, but final assembly of the interior etc. is all done by humans. Some cultures tend to care more if something is put together properly than others.
    Last edited by superswiss; 11-13-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Not trying to convince you at all. Some like sedans, others like coupes and each brand tries to capture part of a segment. Not everybody likes AMG and BMW M and Audi Sport. The only sedan I've ever owned was my '07 S4 and I only got it because Audi didn't sell a coupe in North America at the time. Regarding assembly location, it does indeed matter. I've had this conversation before many times. I've managed teams from different cultures in my professional live. You can teach hard skills (using a tool), but you can't teach soft skills (recognize that something doesn't look right). Germans are very detail oriented. Somebody once posted a line from his dad, who was a builder. It went something like this. You can teach somebody to use a hammer, but if they don't see that the staircase is crooked, they can't be helped. Germans have an eye for detail. That's not an American mentality at all, nor a Mexican given Audi's factory in Mexico for the Q5. I am from the German part of Europe. There's a huge difference in detail orientation and you can see it in the build quality of things. The chassis and body are built by robots, so there won't be much difference, but final assembly of the interior etc. is all done by humans. Some cultures tend to care more if something is put together properly than others.
    Can you show me some proof of what you speak of? To say Americans lack attention to detail when building German cars to their specifications sounds a bit extreme. If what you say is true then there should be a lot of complaints about all these American/Mexican built Mercedes. Can you point me to such a thing? German engineering is definitely top notch but those "engineers" are top notch and how they put together the manufacturing process. Not the regular German workers in the factory. I'm not buying that German workers are more capable then American workers at following instructions. Do you honestly believe that Americans/Mexicans are incapable of building something to the same level of detail as Germans following the Germans guidance? For all you know there can be Germans working in the American factory. If that's your preference then fine but to speak as if your preference is coming from a place with factual evidence to back it up is showing your bias.

    And by the way the interior is also done by robots with guidance by humans. There are very few parts that are built by a human completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evanseric21 View Post
    Can you show me some proof of what you speak of? To say Americans lack attention to detail when building German cars to their specifications sounds a bit extreme. If what you say is true then there should be a lot of complaints about all these American/Mexican built Mercedes. Can you point me to such a thing? German engineering is definitely top notch but those "engineers" are top notch and how they put together the manufacturing process. Not the regular German workers in the factory. I'm not buying that German workers are more capable then American workers at following instructions. Do you honestly believe that Americans/Mexicans are incapable of building something to the same level of detail as Germans following the Germans guidance? For all you know there can be Germans working in the American factory. If that's your preference then fine but to speak as if your preference is coming from a place with factual evidence to back it up is showing your bias.

    And by the way the interior is also done by robots with guidance by humans. There are very few parts that are built by a human completely.
    Objective evidence is probably hard to obtain. I don't think Consumer Reports, JD Powers etc. break out their data by manufacturing location. So my opinion is definitely mostly based on first hand personal experience. I admit, the German car industry has been hugely influential to the American car industry. Chrysler has immensely benefited from their Daimler partnership for example, so there is indeed evidence that the knowledge can be transferred successfully. Honestly, while I do have reservations about US built German cars, the bigger issue for me personally is that I can't do European Delivery with a C63 S sedan built in Alabama. For me that's a big factor of buying German cars. I'll be spending 8 weeks in Europe with the new car for example. I spent 4 weeks with my RS5. Audi has killed their European Delivery program effective end of this year and it's effectively already killed for RS models as Audi doesn't do deliveries between November and April for cars that come with summer tires from the factory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Objective evidence is probably hard to obtain. I don't think Consumer Reports, JD Powers etc. break out their data by manufacturing location. So my opinion is definitely mostly based on first hand personal experience. I admit, the German car industry has been hugely influential to the American car industry. Chrysler has immensely benefited from their Daimler partnership for example, so there is indeed evidence that the knowledge can be transferred successfully. Honestly, while I do have reservations about US built German cars, the bigger issue for me personally is that I can't do European Delivery with a C63 S sedan built in Alabama. For me that's a big factor of buying German cars. I'll be spending 8 weeks in Europe with the new car for example. I spent 4 weeks with my RS5. Audi has killed their European Delivery program effective end of this year and it's effectively already killed for RS models as Audi doesn't do deliveries between November and April for cars that come with summer tires from the factory.
    Fair enough. I can never debate personal preference with someone. Who am I to tell you what you should like? My point was if the build quality was lacking then there would be a trend and they could narrow it down to the American built Mercedes. If this was truly an issue. I don't believe one exists. Again you are entitled to your opinion I would just be more open that it is your opinion instead of placing it as fact.

    European delivery sounds like a blast. Not something that would sway me towards or away from a car but the idea of taking a vacation and having my brand new car waiting for me is definitely intriguing.

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    Speaks for itself

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    What if the new RS5 had a 5 cylinder?

    Sounds like itís dying. Iíve spoken with my BMW dealer and I can get into an M850i, a car superior in literally every aspect, for under $120CAD, while a fully specíd RS5 is over $110CAD and dealers wonít budge despite them not moving. When I purchased my RS5 it was simply the best 4 seat coupe on the market, and it was $85CAD.

    Nobody disputes the RS4/5 is a great car, but it has priced itself into a league where it simply cannot compete. One of these is a $100k car. One is not.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhanson View Post
    Sounds like itís dying. Iíve spoken with my BMW dealer and I can get into an M850i, a car superior in literally every aspect, for under $120CAD, while a fully specíd RS5 is over $110CAD and dealers wonít budge despite them not moving. When I purchased my RS5 it was simply the best 4 seat coupe on the market, and it was $85CAD.

    Nobody disputes the RS4/5 is a great car, but it has priced itself into a league where it simply cannot compete. One of these is a $100k car. One is not.


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    Yes but then you have to drive a BMW. You bring up a good point on what's being offered for the money (engine size & hp/dollar ratio). That company has lost the plot more than Audi. I like the M850i but it's huge and fat. Pretty sure an RS5 would take it handily in the twisties. I'm trying to talk my father out of a new M5. Their cars have had too many issues in the past for me to ever consider one again. I had to lemon law one a few years back.

    Edit: I just looked at price and the BMW STARTS at about $120K here in the states where the RS5 starts at $70K. I see you're not in the states so the pricing structure is different. Someone is getting hosed if those two cars are equal in price.
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  32. #72
    Veteran Member Three Rings Johnhanson's Avatar
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    What if the new RS5 had a 5 cylinder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape Factory View Post
    Yes but then you have to drive a BMW. You bring up a good point on what's being offered for the money (engine size & hp/dollar ratio). That company has lost the plot more than Audi. I like the M850i but it's huge and fat. Pretty sure an RS5 would take it handily in the twisties. I'm trying to talk my father out of a new M5. Their cars have had too many issues in the past for me to ever consider one again. I had to lemon law one a few years back.

    Edit: I just looked at price and the BMW STARTS at about $120K here in the states where the RS5 starts at $70K. I see you're not in the states so the pricing structure is different. Someone is getting hosed if those two cars are equal in price.
    M850i starts at $123CAD and between loyalty discounts and usually a starting negotiated discount of 3-4% off msrp it can be had below $120. No options though - but the only ones available are essentially intrusive extra driver assist options. A base M5 starts at $114CAD. Most lost for $130 but include ceramics and extended leather which I donít find necessary (granted, ceramics are what drive up the RS5s mark). I donít care for the looks of the new M5 however the interior, tech and performance is not even comparable to an RS5....but the price is. I think you will have a hard time convincing your father out of an M5 - especially after driving both cars. One is disappointing and one is completely mind blowing. The new M5 makes an RS7 feel slow.

    They are different cars for different purposes, but they are aimed at essentially the same demographics and are close enough in price points that their buyers are certainly cross shopping.




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    2013 Audi RS5 Coupe | Phantom Black | Everything except ceramics | Capristo | Eventuri | 15/10 H&R | Rotors when it's cold | V-Spokes when it's warm
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  33. #73
    Veteran Member Four Rings superswiss's Avatar
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    I guess this thread keeps coming back. I have to agree with @Johnhanson. Audi wants too much money for the RS5 even vis-ŗ-vis its direct competitors. A fully loaded '19 RS5 minus the Dynamic Plus package, because I don't want CCBs comes out to ~92USD. That's with black optics and the exterior carbon bits. As decked out as it gets w/o the CCB's. No potential European Delivery discount on that since Audi stopped their program and other discounts are scarce, so one has to assume MSRP or a small discount at best. My current fully loaded '13 RS5 w/o CCBs but everything else stickered for 82USD!

    For comparison, my ordered fully loaded '19 C63 S comes out to ~93USD. That's also minus CCBs, but everything else such as black optic night package, all the exterior carbon bits and also the $1800 Aero package for which Audi has no equivalent and 5% ED discount. It also includes a free AMG Driving Academy track day at one of several tracks in the USA, 180 mph top speed w/o having to buy the CCBs (nice to have this top speed since I'm doing ED) and speaking of ED, I get to drive it for two months all over Europe and truly experience what the car is capable of.

    Similarly a fully loaded M4 Competition package with all the carbon bits, DCT, full leather interior and everything comes out to ~88USD before discounts. BMW also still offers European Delivery. Keep in mind, the latter two are a notch above their base models. There is a ~8USD price difference between a base C63 and C63 S for example and the BMW's competition package is 4800USD option.

    The RS5 currently is the base RS5. There's supposed to be an RS5 Performance that would be more in line with the C63 S and M competition, but even the current RS5 commands pricing above those. At this price, the RS5 doesn't even have full leather interior like the M and C63. Thanks to the AWD advantage, it keeps up performance-wise in a straightly line, but still.

    As I said in the past, by itself the RS5 is not a bad car at all, but next to its competitors and other options out there, it is overpriced and the lack of sales shows it. The B8.5 RS5 was flying off the shelves, the M4 at least last time I checked was selling out. No dealer around here had one just sitting around and the '19 C63/S is also selling like hotcakes. I bought my current RS5 w/o test driving, because I couldn't find one that wasn't already sold, but now I could walk in to several dealers around here and buy a B9 RS5 from the lot. At some point I think, everyone has to agree that Audi doesn't exactly have a winner with this one. I have a feeling that the RS5 SB might end up doing better and I think it's quite telling that it priced exactly the same as the coupe in the US. Think about that. Bigger car, two more doors, more practicality but same price as the coupe. My guess is the coupe sales are gonna rock bottom. I think Audi realized that they priced the coupe wrong, but stopped short of a price cut.
    Last edited by superswiss; 12-16-2018 at 05:16 PM.
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  34. #74
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Mops@Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    Audi wants too much money for the RS5 even vis-ŗ-vis its direct competitors. A fully loaded '19 RS5 minus the Dynamic Plus package, because I don't want CCBs comes out to ~92USD. That's with black optics and the exterior carbon bits. As decked out as it gets w/o the CCB's.
    No argument there. Even with a massive discount, my lease number is pretty ugly. Oh well. The program only dropped Saturday eve, and should come down a bit soon. I'm right there at the $92K mark too.
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  35. #75
    Senior Member Two Rings JD23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    I have a feeling that the RS5 SB might end up doing better and I think it's quite telling that it priced exactly the same as the coupe in the US. Think about that. Bigger car, two more doors, more practicality but same price as the coupe. My guess is the coupe sales are gonna rock bottom. I think Audi realized that they priced the coupe wrong, but stopped short of a price cut.
    RS5 coupes have sat on the lots of several dealers in my area for 3-4 months before selling. I see dealers nearly discontinuing ordering the RS5 coupe for inventory and focusing on the SB instead.

  36. #76
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    I have a feeling that the RS5 SB might end up doing better and I think it's quite telling that it priced exactly the same as the coupe in the US. Think about that. Bigger car, two more doors, more practicality but same price as the coupe. My guess is the coupe sales are gonna rock bottom. I think Audi realized that they priced the coupe wrong, but stopped short of a price cut.
    The 2018 S5 Coupe was priced around $200 more then the 2018 S5 Sportback. The 2019 S5 Coupe and the S5 Sportback are the same price. I think this is just how Audi prices their Coupe and Sedan companions nothing to do with sales.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhanson View Post
    Sounds like itís dying. Iíve spoken with my BMW dealer and I can get into an M850i, a car superior in literally every aspect, for under $120CAD, while a fully specíd RS5 is over $110CAD and dealers wonít budge despite them not moving. When I purchased my RS5 it was simply the best 4 seat coupe on the market, and it was $85CAD.

    Nobody disputes the RS4/5 is a great car, but it has priced itself into a league where it simply cannot compete. One of these is a $100k car. One is not. [tIMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181216/d83197a65c935a1b2cd1c9a48fbf1639.jpg[/tIMG][tIMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181216/ab23cdaf2e93085be52b83305adfc879.jpg[/tIMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    In Canada I can lease a fully loaded BMW M550i xDrive for less than a fully loaded RS5 Sportback. Next year BMW is upgrading the M550 with a 530 HP V8 and a full digital dash (like the 8 series has).
    Last edited by JohnEnglish; 12-18-2018 at 02:20 PM.

  38. #78
    Veteran Member Four Rings wwhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
    .......Audi wants too much money for the RS5 even vis-ŗ-vis its direct competitors. A fully loaded '19 RS5 minus the Dynamic Plus package, because I don't want CCBs comes out to ~92USD.......
    The carbon black optic option is overpriced @ $5500.

    The standard black optic is not too bad @ $1500.

    2019 Audi RS SB 5 2.9T Nardo grey, MSRP $87,345
    RS Driver Assistance Package$3,700
    Dynamic Package$3,350
    Fine Nappa Leather Package$1,500
    Black Optic Package$1,500
    Dynamic Steering $1,150
    Bang & Olufsen Sound System w/3D Sound $950
    2016 S6 Sport, black optic

  39. #79
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhan View Post
    The carbon black optic option is overpriced @ $5500.

    The standard black optic is not too bad @ $1500.

    2019 Audi RS SB 5 2.9T Nardo grey, MSRP $87,345
    RS Driver Assistance Package$3,700
    Dynamic Package$3,350
    Fine Nappa Leather Package$1,500
    Black Optic Package$1,500
    Dynamic Steering $1,150
    Bang & Olufsen Sound System w/3D Sound $950
    Bingo! my build came out to MSRP $87,995

  40. #80
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    car is way too GT oriented for the 5 banger.

    Would need to go on extreme diet and shift focus and at that point Audi would be better off with an entirely new model.

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