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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    S6 vs my new Macan GTS

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    Picked up my S6 replacement today. Drove home 115 miles from the dealer on highway, mountain highway, and some twisty country roads. Here is the comparison

    Engine: S6. No contest here. The TTV8 easily trumps the TTV6, but I knew this going in. The Macan is quick, but not nail-you-to-the seat fast like the S6. The Macan, however, has no perceptible lag whatsoever, especially in Sports and Sports plus mode.

    Transmission: Macan. No contest here. The PDK is simply magnificent. Works very nicely to keep the Macan making torque. Really nice response to throttle inputs.

    Exhaust: Stock vs. Stock it is a toss up. The S6 has the lower more thunderous sound, but it is simply subdued compared to the growly Macan. Macan has a much bigger difference in sport and non-sport modes than the Audi exhaust

    Interior: Macan, by just by a bit. This however, is not a fair comparison. The Audi interior is basically configured one way. I ordered my Macan with some serious interior upgrades

    Seats: S6 seats are better. Macan seats are tighter and sportier. Very adjustable, but not quite the comfort, for my body, of the S6 seats as a daily driver

    Steering: Macan. No contest here. Steering precision in the Porsche is miles ahead of the Audi

    Suspension/Chassis. Macan. Again, no contest. The overall handling, stability, responsiveness of the Macan in GTS trim just blows the S6 away. Ride quality is more luxurious in the S6, but not glaringly so.

    Brakes: Macan. Much more confidence inspiring feel

    Sound system: Macan. I have the Bang and Olufsen in the S6. Magnificent. I have the Burmester in the Macan. Very comparable to the B&O but significantly better bass response

    Wow factor: In GTS trim, at least, the Macan gets serious attention. The S6 got attention from people "in the know". At least on this one drive, everyone wanted to race me in the Macan. Much more than in the S6 and even more than what I have experienced in my Cayman.

    In the end, a very different vehicle than the S6. Definitely not as fast, but much more dynamic and tight overall. If you want an SUV, and like the sports car feel, this is the ticket for sure.
    Currently: Porsche Macan GTS * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  2. #2
    Established Member Three Rings R3.'s Avatar
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    Very interesting. I felt the DSG lacking and I know they can program it to be better. I honestly prefer my ZF8 from my old A6


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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Porsche doesn't use DSG. it's a PDK and man it shifts hard and quick. nice pick up on the macan gts. 2 different cars but love the comparison.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4nicetry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajee622 View Post
    Porsche doesn't use DSG. it's a PDK and man it shifts hard and quick. nice pick up on the macan gts. 2 different cars but love the comparison.
    Same shit, different pile. They're both dual clutch gearboxes.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s4nicetry View Post
    Same shit, different pile. They're both dual clutch gearboxes.
    In the same way manuals are different, and torque converter automatics are different, so is the case with dual clutch automatics. I have a PDK in the Macan and my Cayman. Have driven DSG in the S6 and my wife's S3. The entire automotive industry will acknowledge the fact that the programming, shifting, and actually the paddle feel of the PDK is the best in the business.
    Currently: Porsche Macan GTS * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  6. #6
    Active Member Two Rings JayNana's Avatar
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    Interesting comparison. Of course one is an executive saloon and the other is the lower end of the brand's SUV range.

    I drive a DSG and test drove a few porches with and without PDKs. Didn't see much of a difference between DSG and PDK especially with the DSG in sports mode. Of course the cars were so different it's difficult to compare

    PDK has a reputation for rock solid reputation I think? Whilst the DSG has the extreme opposite and that's my experience too.




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  7. #7
    Senior Member Four Rings cobrario's Avatar
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    so you found everyone wanted to race your Sport Ute more so than the Sports Sedan...interesting, maybe it's the P label that compelled them. Either way congrats and enjoy!
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4nicetry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    In the same way manuals are different, and torque converter automatics are different, so is the case with dual clutch automatics. I have a PDK in the Macan and my Cayman. Have driven DSG in the S6 and my wife's S3. The entire automotive industry will acknowledge the fact that the programming, shifting, and actually the paddle feel of the PDK is the best in the business.
    I'm just saying the DSG/S-Tronic/PDK gearboxes are pretty much the same with different programming controlling them. There have been many discussions over the years about how similar the two boxes are, PDK's programming is more sports car oriented then Audi's luxury cars are though. I'll bet the reprogrammed S-tronic in the R8 V10 performs just as good as the PDK does. It's not different like manuals are different though, a manual is analog. My Turbo's manual is vastly different from my S4's. Different shifter, shifter gates, linkage, clutch, etc. all manually controlled, besides general operation, totally different.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ze_Nardo6's Avatar
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    I find it borderline hilarious when people compare the DSG to the PDK.

    The PDK in the sportier Porsches absolutely shits on the DSG in the sportier Audis, even the R8. Of course there are dialed down versions of both for the "lesser" cars in the lineups.

    If you're comparing top cars from each, say the V10 R8+ to a GT3RS, it's not even close.

    Congrats on the p-car! If you're going to go Macan, it has to be GTS or Turbo so good choice
    Mickey (AKA: AudiS4B8)

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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings wwhan's Avatar
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    The DSG is licensed from BorgWarner by the Audi-VW group

    The PDK was a joint development of ZF & Porsche.
    2016 S6 Sport, EPL stg1 ECU/TCU, Eurocode Sways

  11. #11
    Established Member Three Rings R3.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhan View Post
    The DSG is licensed from BorgWarner by the Audi-VW group

    The PDK was a joint development of ZF & Porsche.
    I never knew that ! Very interesting and it makes sense , ZF makes great stuff.


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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings wwhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3. View Post
    I never knew that ! Very interesting and it makes sense , ZF makes great stuff. ...]
    The PDK in the 911, Cayman & Panamera are definitely from the joint development of ZF & Porsche.

    I am not sure what is in the Macon PDK.

    https://www.just-auto.com/analysis/z..._id101268.aspx
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings wwhan's Avatar
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    Well a little research indicates the Macan PDK is different than the other ZF PDKs in the Porsche lineup.

    It seems the Porsche Macan PDK is a Porsche enhanced version based on the OB5 DL501. It also uses the same G-052-529-A2 oil & filter OB5-325-330-A as the Audi DL501, but different than the other ZF PDKs in the Porsche lineup.

    https://www.macanforum.com/forum/1419378-post60.html
    "For us is always the issue of driving dynamics important. Porsche distinguishes a very high driving dynamics. These are available in several categories: One is the longitudinal dynamics, that is, we have the new V6 engines integrated into the vehicle. Then we have also developed a dual clutch transmission; a derivative of DL501-Audi-gear, with completely new software and a whole new wheel drive system, the Porsche-hang-on all-wheel system. Finally, the suspension was significantly revised and integrated air suspension

    And this is only one of many quotes by Hatz out there on this topic.

    And last, but not least, I have now toured the Macan Factory in Leipzig 4 times (yes, 4 times), and each time I have asked the same question about the PDK and each time the answer has been the same, it is made in a VW factory and shipped JIT to Leipzig."


    https://www.macanforum.com/forum/735874-post34.html
    "According to Porsche when I went to training on the Macan last year, Porsche is using the Audi transmission with improved clutch pack and different control module (programing). the PTM clutch pack is in the transfer case bolted to the back of this transmission, its the same Borg Warner transfer case we use in the Cayenne. This PDK also has a maximum torque rating of 400 lb ft and is why the Macan is detuned compared to the Cayenne and Pananera turbo sixes. .....
    For anyone bothered by the fact that Audi makes our transmissions, just look to the other 50% of the componets on the car also being supplied by VAG as well as the body in white and most of the hard parts on the car sans engine."
    2016 S6 Sport, EPL stg1 ECU/TCU, Eurocode Sways

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ze_Nardo6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhan View Post
    Well a little research indicates the Macan PDK is different than the other ZF PDKs in the Porsche lineup.

    It seems the Porsche Macan PDK is a Porsche enhanced version based on the OB5 DL501. It also uses the same G-052-529-A2 oil & filter OB5-325-330-A as the Audi DL501, but different than the other ZF PDKs in the Porsche lineup.

    https://www.macanforum.com/forum/1419378-post60.html
    "For us is always the issue of driving dynamics important. Porsche distinguishes a very high driving dynamics. These are available in several categories: One is the longitudinal dynamics, that is, we have the new V6 engines integrated into the vehicle. Then we have also developed a dual clutch transmission; a derivative of DL501-Audi-gear, with completely new software and a whole new wheel drive system, the Porsche-hang-on all-wheel system. Finally, the suspension was significantly revised and integrated air suspension

    And this is only one of many quotes by Hatz out there on this topic.

    And last, but not least, I have now toured the Macan Factory in Leipzig 4 times (yes, 4 times), and each time I have asked the same question about the PDK and each time the answer has been the same, it is made in a VW factory and shipped JIT to Leipzig."


    https://www.macanforum.com/forum/735874-post34.html
    "According to Porsche when I went to training on the Macan last year, Porsche is using the Audi transmission with improved clutch pack and different control module (programing). the PTM clutch pack is in the transfer case bolted to the back of this transmission, its the same Borg Warner transfer case we use in the Cayenne. This PDK also has a maximum torque rating of 400 lb ft and is why the Macan is detuned compared to the Cayenne and Pananera turbo sixes. .....
    For anyone bothered by the fact that Audi makes our transmissions, just look to the other 50% of the componets on the car also being supplied by VAG as well as the body in white and most of the hard parts on the car sans engine."
    Wow great info. The DL501 is a beast for being rated at 400 lb ft. It fits the German MO, over-engineered and under-rated hence us stage 3 folks throwing 750+ lb ft (I think closer to 800+) at it without issue.

    Looks like Porsche has upgraded clutch packs as well, bet that thing can handle a ton of power
    Mickey (AKA: AudiS4B8)

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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Nardo6 View Post
    Wow great info. The DL501 is a beast for being rated at 400 lb ft. It fits the German MO, over-engineered and under-rated hence us stage 3 folks throwing 750+ lb ft (I think closer to 800+) at it without issue.

    Looks like Porsche has upgraded clutch packs as well, bet that thing can handle a ton of power
    Well the Macan PDK is also used in the Macan turbo with the power package with 440hp/442lb-ft. What I am referring to, however, is not what is on a spec sheet, but what one experiences when actually driving the vehicle. In the end, that's what counts...THE ACTUAL DRVING EXPERIENCE. The PDK in the Macan feels no different than the PDK in my Cayman GTS and both feel substantially more responsive and intuitive than the DSG.

    The PDK shifts are more immediate and firm. The shifting characteristics with changes in the throttle position when in automatic modes is better than stock or modified tune DSG.
    Currently: Porsche Macan GTS * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayNana View Post
    Interesting comparison. Of course one is an executive saloon and the other is the lower end of the brand's SUV range.

    I drive a DSG and test drove a few porches with and without PDKs. Didn't see much of a difference between DSG and PDK especially with the DSG in sports mode. Of course the cars were so different it's difficult to compare

    PDK has a reputation for rock solid reputation I think? Whilst the DSG has the extreme opposite and that's my experience too.


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    LOL at thought of executive saloon vs "lower end" of the brands SUV range. I actually have owned 2 Cayennes in the past. I wanted the Macan because I wanted something smaller. Smaller doesn't mean "lower end". Smaller is smaller. A base Cayenne is like $60,000. A top end loaded Macan Turbo is around $130,000. For comparison, my S6 was $88,000. My Macan priced out at $99,000 and there is nothing "lower end" about it. Although I suppose a Continental GT is also a "lower end" Bentley.
    Currently: Porsche Macan GTS * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ze_Nardo6's Avatar
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    S6 vs my new Macan GTS

    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    Well the Macan PDK is also used in the Macan turbo with the power package with 440hp/442lb-ft. What I am referring to, however, is not what is on a spec sheet, but what one experiences when actually driving the vehicle. In the end, that's what counts...THE ACTUAL DRVING EXPERIENCE. The PDK in the Macan feels no different than the PDK in my Cayman GTS and both feel substantially more responsive and intuitive than the DSG.

    The PDK shifts are more immediate and firm. The shifting characteristics with changes in the throttle position when in automatic modes is better than stock or modified tune DSG.
    You donít have to convince me. Iíve spent a lot of time with a lot of different PDK cars and can absolutely attest to what youíre saying. And I understand that while Porsche may use the same DL 501 from our Audis, Porscheís tuning renders the experience entirely different.

    Lots of supercars in the family and nothing matches the PDK in the higher performing end in Porsches lineup
    Mickey (AKA: AudiS4B8)

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  18. #18
    Active Member Two Rings JayNana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    LOL at thought of executive saloon vs "lower end" of the brands SUV range. I actually have owned 2 Cayennes in the past. I wanted the Macan because I wanted something smaller. Smaller doesn't mean "lower end". Smaller is smaller. A base Cayenne is like $60,000. A top end loaded Macan Turbo is around $130,000. For comparison, my S6 was $88,000. My Macan priced out at $99,000 and there is nothing "lower end" about it. Although I suppose a Continental GT is also a "lower end" Bentley.
    Soon after posting I thought I might touch a nerve with that comment, lol

    U have stated the top end macan price and the base cayenne price, among others.. says anything? :)

    Every manufacturer has a range.. for cars, for SUVs, everything - to capture all market segments. In that, 'smaller' cars are OFTEN specced 'lower'. Perhaps the Mecan is an exception.. if that makes u feel better ;)


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  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Porsche doesn't make anything low end. Their original Boxer came close, and actually saved the brand.

    Where Porsche really shines is the suspension, steering, and general handling. It was instantaneously better than the RS7.

    The Macan is certainly not lower end. The interior pretty much looks like a more compact Cayenne, with a little bit less extra trim. The later model Audi interiors are really nice though. I loved the seats and the general style of the RS7. My Panamera is definitely better and more expensive, but not really justified by the original msrp difference. I would argue that for $140,000 the RS7 should have a bit nicer trim than its brothers and sisters. My experience of the switch was pretty much the same, other than I didn't lose any power!
    2012 Panamera Turbo S Basalt Black Metallic and $186,000 worth of goodies (thank you depreciation)
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    We get more "hey sweet car" in the RS7 than we do in the Panamera. Could be because Minneapolis is basically Audi's beacon of the north, so people are in the know. Or maybe its because the wife's Panamera turbo is "amethyst" color
    2017 Audi RS7 Glacier White w/ Black Optics
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings socialpro's Avatar
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    Great writeup and comparison, and congrats on the new ride!

    After being sorely dissapointed in the 2015 Cayenne Turbo I owned for a month, I strongly considered getting into either turbo or GTS version of the Macan. But no matter how many times I looked at one, or tried to 'love it'...it just never left a good impression on me on what the car is or trying to be.

    The interior felt 'tight' all around to me for an SUV (and I'm not a big guy), never seemed like a relaxed drive, and interior always left me something to be desired (even though I think the GTS trim can be speccd out great). Even in turbo trim the car did not feel fast to me.

    Any time I walked away from test driving or looking at one (and I've looked at several) - it felt more like a toy rather than a car. No doubt the car has a specific buyer and it does fill a niche, I just couldn't transform from going from the C7 platform into the macan.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayNana View Post
    Soon after posting I thought I might touch a nerve with that comment, lol

    U have stated the top end macan price and the base cayenne price, among others.. says anything? :)

    Every manufacturer has a range.. for cars, for SUVs, everything - to capture all market segments. In that, 'smaller' cars are OFTEN specced 'lower'. Perhaps the Mecan is an exception.. if that makes u feel better ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was merely commenting on your statement about an "executive saloon" vs "lower end". That's all. Look at this way....Which is a "lower car", an executive saloon A6 or the small RS3? I would say it is the executive saloon A6.
    Currently: Porsche Macan GTS * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  23. #23
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by db12 View Post
    We get more "hey sweet car" in the RS7 than we do in the Panamera. Could be because Minneapolis is basically Audi's beacon of the north, so people are in the know. Or maybe its because the wife's Panamera turbo is "amethyst" color
    Hopefully phaphaphooey won't see this thread, he might get angry that your comparing Porsche to Audi and still hanging around on Audizine!!!!

    I love that amethyst color. Its fairly rare, but it is different an not everyone is going to like it. I think Porsche is for sure more polarizing on looks for sure, which means probably more people are comfortable liking the Audi's styling. I don't think the Panamera looks better than that Audi anyway to be honest. I think they are pretty on point with each other. That RS7 front end is very mean looking.....and Audi did a really good job with the body lines of the A7,S7,RS7. The RS7 rear diffuser and exhaust area was exquisitely done. If you're wife has and trim of Panamera, than a GTS or Turbo the Audi RS7 DOES look better, as the base models have kind of boring wheels and ride too high.

    Nothing Porsche makes is low end, and most of their pricing is pretty inflated with options and simply because of that crest on the hood. Its either worth it to you or not, but certainly you get SOME of what you pay for!
    2012 Panamera Turbo S Basalt Black Metallic and $186,000 worth of goodies (thank you depreciation)
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    "Love lots of cars, and one good woman"

  24. #24
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by socialpro View Post
    Great writeup and comparison, and congrats on the new ride!

    After being sorely dissapointed in the 2015 Cayenne Turbo I owned for a month, I strongly considered getting into either turbo or GTS version of the Macan. But no matter how many times I looked at one, or tried to 'love it'...it just never left a good impression on me on what the car is or trying to be.

    The interior felt 'tight' all around to me for an SUV (and I'm not a big guy), never seemed like a relaxed drive, and interior always left me something to be desired (even though I think the GTS trim can be speccd out great). Even in turbo trim the car did not feel fast to me.

    Any time I walked away from test driving or looking at one (and I've looked at several) - it felt more like a toy rather than a car. No doubt the car has a specific buyer and it does fill a niche, I just couldn't transform from going from the C7 platform into the macan.
    I don't think the 2015 Cayenne Turbo's are that fast, right around 4.0 0-60. I mean that still pretty fast but in current hp wars and available Audi tuning options, that's probably not going to impress anyone. The X5 M of that vintage is quite a bit faster in a straight line, but the interior is kind of boring. I haven't driven a Cayenne so I can't comment on the handling, though I would think like any Porsche its pretty good. The Cayenne and Macan are "different" looking just like the Panamera, and I can see the "toyish" look thing. The Porsche has always had the frog face look, and this is emphasized in the SUV and Panamera trim for sure lol!
    2012 Panamera Turbo S Basalt Black Metallic and $186,000 worth of goodies (thank you depreciation)
    (previous cars)
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    "Love lots of cars, and one good woman"



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