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  1. #1
    Active Member One Ring in_an_instant's Avatar
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    Aug 22 2018
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    poconos

    TAG > H&R VTF Height Adjustable Springs

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    I ordered the H&R VTF height adjustable springs from Carlos at TAG back on 8/23. Carlos was great, I opted for the H&R's primarily because the K&W's were on an 8 week backorder from Germany. I received the VTF kit within 48 hours.. I then contacted Tom at APTuning in Lebanon PA (amazing shop, I put 40K miles on my 2012 TTRS post I/H/E install with tune and ZERO flaws) for the install. I LOVE THOSE GUYS. TOM, I LOVE YOU. I had zero concerns at this point because I've ran H&R on both our n54 and n55 based cars in the past. Aggressive and a bit stiff? Yes. Total remorse after 6 months sitting on H&R vs. cushy Eibach... None.

    After 2 visits to their shop and easily 16 hours of labor and 15 hours of travel, there was some issues. Tom shared a video with me of the front springs jumping on their lower perch that he immediately sent to H&R. It's very annoying, like a DSM on chopped springs when at a stop. If I turn my wheel left or right, they bind and pop. Having dealt with spring installs on basically everything I've owned, I didn't think much of it at first. Perhaps just a tweak here and there and good. Then I put my S5 on ramps and looked for myself. It's a disaster.

    I called H&R directly and was told their engineers in Germany were notified. That was over a week ago.

    I have a team in Munich on stand-up daily (I'm a software architect) so I know what that means. Ryan from H&R seemed great. I felt like somehow, even though I'm easily 2k into this with alignment, I'd be taken care of.

    Then I found this:

    https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...29098836ea.pngH&

    Of course this was after my debacle.

    So I ask, am I wrong to feel as though TAG duped me (NOT Carlos, TAG) given they've personally experienced the exact same fail from the parts they sold me?

    -Mike
    ---
    2018 S5 SB Prestige in MBM: Bone stock for now

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings NC_Detail_Garage's Avatar
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    Jun 27 2015
    AZ Member #
    339552
    My Garage
    B9 S4
    Location
    Charlotte, NC

    I've been dealing w/ the same pop just from the right front corner on my ABT HAS. It's been back to the tech 3x over the past six months with no luck. At this point, I'm simply rotating the spring (temporary fix) and living with the noise. Fortunately, it only happens at larger turns of the wheel. We contacted ABT after the first install and received the the similar 'we'll talk to the engineers' and get back to you. Of course, no response.

    That said, many others have the same setup as myself and don't have the noise.

  3. #3
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Mops@Nemesis's Avatar
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    Sep 28 2010
    AZ Member #
    64971
    My Garage
    '18 S4, '16 SQ5
    Location
    Boone, NC

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Detail_Garage View Post
    I've been dealing w/ the same pop just from the right front corner on my ABT HAS. It's been back to the tech 3x over the past six months with no luck. At this point, I'm simply rotating the spring (temporary fix) and living with the noise. Fortunately, it only happens at larger turns of the wheel. We contacted ABT after the first install and received the the similar 'we'll talk to the engineers' and get back to you. Of course, no response.

    That said, many others have the same setup as myself and don't have the noise.
    Hey Larry,

    I didn't realize you still had this issue. Let me know if I can reach out to ABT. Simply email me with a description of what's going on, what's been done etc, and I'll jump on it. I've sold at least 25 ABT HAS setups for the B9, and I've not had another report back with issues. Let's get it sorted!
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings will13k7's Avatar
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    Apr 11 2012
    AZ Member #
    91685
    Location
    Bay Area, CA

    crap. I think I have that same issue with H&R VTFs. the front driver's side clunks a lot, was hoping it was just an install mishap. other than that, they were very bouncy for almost a month before they seemed to break in, but now rides nice.



    please update with any resolution from H&R.
    Last edited by will13k7; 09-29-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings will13k7's Avatar
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    Apr 11 2012
    AZ Member #
    91685
    Location
    Bay Area, CA

    Quote Originally Posted by in_an_instant View Post
    So I ask, am I wrong to feel as though TAG duped me (NOT Carlos, TAG) given they've personally experienced the exact same fail from the parts they sold me?
    they probably hoped it was a one-off manufacturing problem.

  6. #6
    Active Member One Ring ukan16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 14 2018
    AZ Member #
    420610
    Location
    Colorado

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Detail_Garage View Post
    I've been dealing w/ the same pop just from the right front corner on my ABT HAS. It's been back to the tech 3x over the past six months with no luck. At this point, I'm simply rotating the spring (temporary fix) and living with the noise. Fortunately, it only happens at larger turns of the wheel. We contacted ABT after the first install and received the the similar 'we'll talk to the engineers' and get back to you. Of course, no response.

    That said, many others have the same setup as myself and don't have the noise.
    I have the ABT HAS as well, but haven't installed them yet. Is there anything during the install that can be tried to help avoid the issue or is it just a random problem for some?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings NC_Detail_Garage's Avatar
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    Jun 27 2015
    AZ Member #
    339552
    My Garage
    B9 S4
    Location
    Charlotte, NC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mops@Nemesis View Post
    Hey Larry,

    I didn't realize you still had this issue. Let me know if I can reach out to ABT. Simply email me with a description of what's going on, what's been done etc, and I'll jump on it. I've sold at least 25 ABT HAS setups for the B9, and I've not had another report back with issues. Let's get it sorted!
    I hear you, it's not terrible. I'll draft an email this week.

  8. #8
    Active Member One Ring in_an_instant's Avatar
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    Aug 22 2018
    AZ Member #
    425098
    Location
    poconos

    H&R sent me not only a pre-paid return label for the VTF kit but also a brand new set of their standard sport springs for free. The adjustable spring design is for a MacPherson style strut assembly which naturally wants to rotate. Our car's suspension simply doesn't operate like that, it pivots instead. The tricky thing is the problem only presents itself under certain configurations. At the end of the day, everyone I've been involved with during this process has been awesome. I naturally wanted to blame installation and then TAG, but I was dead wrong. I just couldn't fathom an actual design issue but it's real.

    I'll say this, after +500 miles the bind then pop behavior eats at the plastic (teflon maybe?) lower perch washer and gets much worse. Before I had it swapped back to stock (long story, I'm trading the car in and selling the replacement standard sport springs) it started clunking while going perfectly straight over slight bumps.
    ---
    2018 S5 SB Prestige in MBM: Bone stock for now

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring in_an_instant's Avatar
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    Aug 22 2018
    AZ Member #
    425098
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    poconos

    Quote Originally Posted by will13k7 View Post
    crap. I think I have that same issue with H&R VTFs. the front driver's side clunks a lot, was hoping it was just an install mishap. other than that, they were very bouncy for almost a month before they seemed to break in, but now rides nice.



    please update with any resolution from H&R.
    Wow, yeah. Yours sound exactly how mine sounded before I had them swapped back out. At first it was just the binding on turns but they degraded to exactly this very quickly. One weird thing I noticed is that the spring seemed to have compressed itself. I don't even know if thats possible but maybe after twisting so many times while compressed (before the boooonnngg release) it actually reduced its own height. Try this man, jack up that left front to where your wheel is just off the ground. Then get a good grip on the spring and yank on it. In my case, just before the swap there was actually a slight wiggle! The only piece in the equation that could possibly allow for that is the spring compressing itself over time, the perch certainly didn't move and I can't imagine the upper bushing suddenly wearing thin. The plastic/teflon washer did take a beating with the binding but it's only 1/16" or so to begin with. The wiggle is ever so slight and you really have to yank on it for it to present, but normally a spring should be incredibly tight even with the weight off it. IMO it's this wiggle that is causing the clunking over moderate bumps.
    ---
    2018 S5 SB Prestige in MBM: Bone stock for now

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings will13k7's Avatar
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    Apr 11 2012
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    Bay Area, CA

    Quote Originally Posted by in_an_instant View Post
    The adjustable spring design is for a MacPherson style strut assembly which naturally wants to rotate. Our car's suspension simply doesn't operate like that, it pivots instead.
    damn. that sucks. did they mentioned anything about a redesign and what they are going to do with all the ones already on cars?

  11. #11
    Active Member One Ring in_an_instant's Avatar
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    Aug 22 2018
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    poconos

    Quote Originally Posted by will13k7 View Post
    damn. that sucks. did they mentioned anything about a redesign and what they are going to do with all the ones already on cars?
    They didn't though I also didn't get the sense that they were trying to look the other way. Someone above nailed it, if anything I think they chalked it up as an anomaly or small batch QC problem. If engineering ends up taking their time with it, I think they'll take care of anyone currently experiencing these issues.

    The easiest way to get straight to the point, omitting any cause for install related error, would be to have someone record the spring winding & popping. Just have someone focus on the bottom of the driver's (seems to be worse) side spring while you turn the steering wheel back and forth. Start at full lock so you have a decent angle to capture it. It jumps like 3 times per fully steering rotation. Upload and have that link ready to email H&R.
    ---
    2018 S5 SB Prestige in MBM: Bone stock for now



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