Audi RS5 - EVAP Emission Contr. Sys - Very Small Leak Detected - P045600 Error Code

[cbwgo4it]

Hi All,

So, I thought it would be cool to get an error/fault code reader (OBDeleven) and be able to see any fault codes, etc.. Well, if it was fault codes I was looking for, it is fault codes that I got!

3 Engine faults:

1) P045600 = EVAP Emission Contr. Sys - Very Small Leak Detected
2) P030000 = Random Cylinder MisFire
3) P030200 = Cylinder 2 Misfire

I'm focusing in on #1 for now, as it could be related to 2 and 3, and 2 and 3 are obviously related. Also note, there are no check engine lights displayed. The car runs great, and there are no other indicators other than a slight rough idle at startup (sometimes), which smooths out very quickly.

I did look at the fuel cap, but the gasket looks like it is in good shape. I next wanted to look at the purge valve, but after looking in the engine bay, I'm not sure where it is...? I tried following the fuel line but it looks like it descends down where the oil filter is, but I could be wrong. Does anyone have a diagram or a picture of where this valve is? When the car is off, this valve should be closed, so it should be easy to test, if I can find it.

In terms of 2 & 3, if number 1 isn't causing it, I suppose it could be low fuel pressure, other vacuum leak..., but one thing at a time.

Thank you in advanced, for any help!

[hcubed]

The purge valve sits to the left of the oil filter housing and just below the left pressure regulating valve for crankcase ventilation (PCV valve). I need to replace the valve but it looks like a real pain to do it without taking off the upper intake manifold.

Has anyone replaced their purge valve without taking off the upper intake manifold? If you did remove the manifold, did you re-use the seals or replace them?

[Ape Factory]

Depends on mileage. If your car is fairly low mileage, can stick with the original seals. It isn't hard, pre se, to get the upper intake manifold off but it can be tricky in that the spacer/grommets (there's 10 of the buggers) can dislodge and go bouncing down into the engine. They're not captured in the intake manifold by other than the rubber grommet at the top. I detail it a bit in the carbon cleaning thread and video.

Personally, I'd probably just remove the upper intake manifold. The other option is to take off the throttle bodies which does give you more room but it may not be enough.

To the OP, yes, definitely take care of the least expensive item first but do not ignore the misfires. It'd be good to know how many misfires you have on cylinder 2. Could be the coil, plug, or the fuel injector. The misfire count, if high enough, could be a warning that injector is going bad. Easiest test is to remove the #2 coil and move it to the next cylinder. See if the misfire moves.

The other thing to check, assuming your warranty has expired, is that the EVAP is part of the emissions system and MAY still be covered by a warranty under Federal law. Dealer may take care of it depending on miles on the car and year. I believe it's 8 years/80,000 miles.

[hcubed]

Depends on mileage. If your car is fairly low mileage, can stick with the original seals. It isn't hard, pre se, to get the upper intake manifold off but it can be tricky in that the spacer/grommets (there's 10 of the buggers) can dislodge and go bouncing down into the engine. They're not captured in the intake manifold by other than the rubber grommet at the top. I detail it a bit in the carbon cleaning thread and video.

Personally, I'd probably just remove the upper intake manifold. The other option is to take off the throttle bodies which does give you more room but it may not be enough.

To the OP, yes, definitely take care of the least expensive item first but do not ignore the misfires. It'd be good to know how many misfires you have on cylinder 2. Could be the coil, plug, or the fuel injector. The misfire count, if high enough, could be a warning that injector is going bad. Easiest test is to remove the #2 coil and move it to the next cylinder. See if the misfire moves.

The other thing to check, assuming your warranty has expired, is that the EVAP is part of the emissions system and MAY still be covered by a warranty under Federal law. Dealer may take care of it depending on miles on the car and year. I believe it's 8 years/80,000 miles.

Thanks! I always forget about the Federal Emissions Warranty and being in California, the California Emissions Warranty. I am sitting at 56k miles so I will check with the dealer. As an aside, I just had the wife's Q7 radiator shutter replaced under the Federal Emission Warranty.

[hcubed]

I followed up on Ape's suggestion regarding the Federal emission warranty and for me, the California emissions warranty as well. My local dealer and Audi NA were not helpful so I went down the path of just replacing the valve.

My ah ha moment was noticing that if the right side hose was moved off the top of the valve, the valve could be lifted out and moved away. I pulled up the parts diagram and it does a good job of showing how things fit together.

The valve and its hoses, #32[1] on the diagram, fit nicely under the rear of the upper intake manifold (UIM) beneath where the left throttle body connects to the UIM. The valve has a square rubber grommet that fits over a tab on a bracket, #43 in the parts diagram.

There is enough room between the left rear side of the UIM and the firewall to get your hand in and manipulate the valve and hoses. The steps to get things out are roughly:

1. Remove right side hose from UIM
2. Remove left side hose from UIM
3. Remove gray connector from sensor right behind the oil filter. This will allow you to move the right side hose out of the way of the purge valve.
4. Disconnect the purge valve electrical connector. This is one of the lovely Audi electrical connector that having the special removal tool makes a snap to remove. As mentioned earlier, there is enough room to get your hand and the tool into the space.
5. Move the right side hose so it is not on top of the purge valve thus allowing you to pull up on the purge valve and remove it from the mounting bracket tab.
6. Pull out the purge valve and hoses (#32) and you end up with the photo attached.
7. Disconnect the hose from the hard line (yellow arrow)
8. Mark the purge valve and hoses so that you can re-orient the new valve correctly.
9. Replace the valve and ensure proper alignment of new valve with hoses.

Assembly is the reverse of removal

A couple of things I ran into. The clamps on the hard line (yellow arrow) and at both ends of valve were a real PAIN. My frustration overcame me and I ended up breaking all three of the clamps and cutting the hose at the three locations to get the valve out. Breaking the clamps is not a big deal as you can just put nice new worm driven ones on. The problem with cutting the hose from the output of the valve to the tee (#24 on parts diagram) is that that hose is molded to ensure a nice fitment under the UIM. These hoses are marked as 7.5x14.5 (mm) so 5/16" fuel line hose is needed.

Originally, I went with just some 3/8" fuel line because that was all I had on hand but the hose did collapse a bit where it bent. I *think* that 5/16" hose won't collapse. But I ended up getting lucky and picking up the valve and hose assembly (#32) off of Ebay cheap for the final install.

The connection from the hard line to the input of the purge valve is easily replaced with a straight piece of 5/16" fuel line.


[1] #32 is part number 079133240G

[BuyTheWarranty]

I’m having this exact code pop up on my 2015, thanks for the info!

[Ape Factory]

Nice job hcubed!

[mikyxmp]

Thanks for the instructions, @hcubed!

I understand that you removed the left and right crankcase ventilation hoses, aka pressure regulator valve, pressure control valve PCV, or Engine Crankcase Vent Valve.
See numbers 12 and 16 in the attached figure.

The part number for those hoses should be 79103210E. Just to double-check we're talking about the same thing.

Audi maintenance guidelines say to always replace the o-rings (numbers 11 and 17 in attached figure) when re-assembling 12 and 16.
However, I can't find those o rings nowhere as separate parts.

My questions:
1. is it really a 'must' to replace them?
2. does anyone know where to find those, either OEM or third-party?

Thanks in advance. I'll report how my repair went.

Michael

[Ape Factory]

Those come with the PCV valves. Honestly, don't spend the money on the OEM pieces. They're way overpriced and will simply go bad eventually. Get this instead:

[mikyxmp]

Those come with the PCV valves. Honestly, don't spend the money on the OEM pieces. They're way overpriced and will simply go bad eventually. Get this instead:

Thanks! Will consider it when it's time to replace the PCV. For now, I'm just looking for replacement PCV valve o rings.

[mikyxmp]

Hi everyone,

I finally had the time to do my 2015 B8.5 RS5 CFSA V8 4.2L EVAP purge valve replacement.

TL/DR:
- yes, the valve is inconveniently hidden. But that doesn't have to bother you
- you do NOT need to buy the whole tube-and-valve combo.


I. Condition:

Check Engine Light ON

Scan revealed:

4219 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 00 [11101101] - Incorrect Flow

Symptoms noticed:
With a full tank of gas, the engine started up but died down soon thereafter. Only when I gave it a few revs immediately, I could keep it alive.
Hence, I assumed the evap purge solenoid valve is not blocking off. Either it is stuck open or the valve seat is disintegrated. If the valve doesn't block off, gasoline vapor enters the cylinders at all times, causing incorrect air/gas mixtures.

II. Preparation

I cannot emphasize enough how important the following tools are:
1. Audi/VW hose clamp pliers
2. Hose removal pliers (the one with the Y-shaped arms that spread open when handle is squeezed)
3. DW40

III. Replacement parts needed:

1. Vapor Canister Purge Solenoid - Audi (06E-906-517-A)
2. Replacement clamps/ worm gear hose clamps (in case you prefer those over the classic clamps)

IV. Parts that need to be removed for access

Only the left and right crankcase ventilation hose including their PCV valves.

V. Process

1. Remove ventilation hoses from the crankcase housing (red) by gently squeezing the lowermost black plastic ring and removing the hose.
2. Remove the PCV valve (other end of the ventilation hose) by unscrewing the torx screw
3. Understand the tubing coming in and out of the purge solenoid valve. It's quite simple. You'll see that it does not matter how deep the solenoid valve is hidden below, because you don't have to go there. Instead, you'll simply remove the hoses coming in and out of the valve with the valve still attached to them.
That's one line coming in from the back of the firewall, where the metal tube is clipped to the wall and adapted into an elastic hose (1st tube, inlet tube), and then there's two more tubes, the outlet tubes (2nd and 3rd tube). One goes into the left crank case, the other one into the right crank case.
So you simply remove the hoses that are connected to the evap valve on their end facing away from the valve, since those ends are conveniently accessible.
You'll need the pliers mentioned above for that. Possibly some DW40, too.
4. Once the hoses are disassembled, release the electrical connector. It might help to pull the valve up to get a better grip. These connectors release by pushing them together wile lifting that little tab in the opposite direction (up). Some DW40 might help.
5. Now, pull the entire construction out of the engine bay.
5a. My valve wasn't connected to any other holder. Yours might be. You might need to reach down and disconnect it. Reach from the driver-side along the firewall for best access.
6. Once you have the valve/hose assembly completely out, mark the tubes and old valve to remember how they were connected
7. Remove all hoses from the old valve, assemble to new valve. You should end up with the same 'sick octopus' looking construction.
8. Fumble it back into the engine bay and mount the outlet tubes to their associated crank case fitting.
9. Connect the inlet tube with the inlet fitting. You might have to unclip the metal rod to get a better angle and hold of it.
10. Connect the electrical connector
11. Connect left and right crank case ventilation hoses.
12. Delete error codes.

VI. Inspect the old valve

In my case, I can blow through the valve (not much, but still) in its disassembled state. This shouldn't be possible, since the evap purge solenoid is 'normally closed' and should only open when 12V are applied. This might confirm my fault theory. Time will tell if that error comes up again. I'll update this post if it does.

Hope this helps!
Let me know if you have any questions.

The image below shows how I pulled out the entire valve/hose assembly from the engine bay. It's the same way back down for assembly.

IMG_7619.jpg

[Belialith]

So I got the old one out and when I install the new one it spins freely on the hose. Anyone else have this issue? I struggled to get the old valve separated from the hose and then putting it back on is easy, seems odd. It didn't come loose or move when I reinstalled it back in the car on its bracket.
I did also notice that some of the hoses have some weird wear. Might be from the original owner having issues with it as well but judging by the dust/grime buildup on it I think it is original as I am nearing 100k miles.