Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Motor pull for timing service - Driveshaft

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Hi All,
    Car is actually an 05 Allroad 4.2 but posting here for ususal reasons. Final steps are now disconnect center driveshaft then shifter (Tip) then motor trans mounts then outski. Trouble is the shaft spins free making removal of the hex bolts from the output of the trans a no go. Cars in park but all axles spin free. Independently, not together. Guessing since all wiring including the ecu connections are disconnected car doesnt know its in park?

    My previous automotive experience tells me thats crap but want to make sure before going backwards in this adventure.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Easiest solution is to block the brake pedal or have someone hold it down for you so you can blow all the bolts free.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    Location
    Oregon

    Use an impact with the correct bit. I had one bolt on a driveline absolutely not come out short of heat and a huge set of vice grips. Impacts are a god send

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S4

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    Texpoops "Correct, but a half inch difference isnít going to accelerate wear by much. Iím sure the front dips that much with a fatty in the front"

  4. #4
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Ah! The plot thickens! The center shaft spins free without any other axles hence rotor doesnít move therefore brakes dont come into play.

    First I thought the parking brake being on didnt help as having no effect on the front wheels. Then reattached both front cvís to the output shells on the front diff/trans. Front axles still dont turn when the center shaft is rotated. I did block the pedal just because but still no effect.

    I feel like im missing something simple. The car did come into the garage running and driving btw.

  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnysS4 View Post
    Use an impact with the correct bit. I had one bolt on a driveline absolutely not come out short of heat and a huge set of vice grips. Impacts are a god send

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    So just hold the driveshaft and give the hex bolts hell with the impact?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    Location
    Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    So just hold the driveshaft and give the hex bolts hell with the impact?
    Yup. Soak them with penetrating oil and heat them with a torch if necessary. You can put the bit on an extension and hit the extension with a hammer to try and break any corrosion off the threads before giving them hell.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S4

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    Texpoops "Correct, but a half inch difference isnít going to accelerate wear by much. Iím sure the front dips that much with a fatty in the front"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    Location
    Oregon

    I had to actually remove the motor with the driveshaft attached and then remove the bolt outside the car. It was horrible lol.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S4

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    Texpoops "Correct, but a half inch difference isnít going to accelerate wear by much. Iím sure the front dips that much with a fatty in the front"

  8. #8
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Roger that. Was just thinking i did something wrong. Time to go hell bent for leather!

  9. #9
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnysS4 View Post
    I had to actually remove the motor with the driveshaft attached and then remove the bolt outside the car. It was horrible lol.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    This sounds like a bad day for sure.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Wait, the center shaft spins freely of both rear axles? That doesn't sound right...

  11. #11
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by 924Carrera View Post
    Wait, the center shaft spins freely of both rear axles? That doesn't sound right...
    Correct. Free of fronts as well. Also car is in park and wheels spin free.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    Correct. Free of fronts as well. Also car is in park and wheels spin free.
    If the prop shaft spins freely of both rear axles, how can it transmit any power? Something sounds wrong there. It spins freely of the fronts because of the center diff, so that's why being in park doesn't help.

  13. #13
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by 924Carrera View Post
    If the prop shaft spins freely of both rear axles, how can it transmit any power? Something sounds wrong there. It spins freely of the fronts because of the center diff, so that's why being in park doesn't help.
    Therein lies my quandry. It ran and drove prior to the start of this project. Thats why i was thinking maybe something tcm related since all the electricals are disconnected. Got me a bit stumped i must say.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    Therein lies my quandry. It ran and drove prior to the start of this project. Thats why i was thinking maybe something tcm related since all the electricals are disconnected. Got me a bit stumped i must say.
    I haven't personally worked on an AllRoad, but there isn't any kind of electronic rear diff, right? It's still a purely mechanical system. Input shaft of diff is connected to the gearset inside. It's an open diff so one wheel can spin freely of the other, but you can't have both wheels blocked and the prop shaft still spinning. That's definitely weird.

  15. #15
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by 924Carrera View Post
    I haven't personally worked on an AllRoad, but there isn't any kind of electronic rear diff, right? It's still a purely mechanical system. Input shaft of diff is connected to the gearset inside. It's an open diff so one wheel can spin freely of the other, but you can't have both wheels blocked and the prop shaft still spinning. That's definitely weird.
    Not that im aware of but I may need to do some research. There is a guy in the AR facebook group that has done the service on a 4.2 AR. Ill hit him up and report back.

  16. #16
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    I just reread a reply i recíd from a fb member. ďTrans may have not stopped on a pawl. Rotate all 4 (wheels i assume) to catch the next tooth on the gearĒ. That is making some sense now that i read it again.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    I just reread a reply i recíd from a fb member. ďTrans may have not stopped on a pawl. Rotate all 4 (wheels i assume) to catch the next tooth on the gearĒ. That is making some sense now that i read it again.
    Sure, but that shouldn't have any bearing on the rear differential. That part is what's not adding up to me.

  18. #18
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Quote Originally Posted by 924Carrera View Post
    Sure, but that shouldn't have any bearing on the rear differential. That part is what's not adding up to me.
    Thinking out loud.....
    So if the center shaft is rotated, at least one rear wheel should turn as well.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    Thinking out loud.....
    So if the center shaft is rotated, at least one rear wheel should turn as well.
    Correct. Because it is an open differential the wheels are free to turn an unlimited amount relative to each other, but at least one of them will rotate when the prop shaft is turned. If both wheels are unable to move (i.e. with brakes on), the prop shaft should not physically be able to rotate either.

  20. #20
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Eureka. The issue was that the pass side wheel is the dominant. I had the DS wheel on but not the PS. Due to wheel bolts rather than lugs thru the rotor, the axle in fact turns when the center shaft is rotated but not the rotor, and the brakes had no effect. Put a couple wheel bolts in the rotor/hub, driveshaft is now stationary when brakes are applied.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 18 2012
    AZ Member #
    93721
    My Garage
    2005 S4
    Location
    Portland, OR

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    Eureka. The issue was that the pass side wheel is the dominant. I had the DS wheel on but not the PS. Due to wheel bolts rather than lugs thru the rotor, the axle in fact turns when the center shaft is rotated but not the rotor, and the brakes had no effect. Put a couple wheel bolts in the rotor/hub, driveshaft is now stationary when brakes are applied.
    Nice, glad you figured it out. That definitely sounded like a confusing situation. Now, you should be able to use the brakes to hold the driveshaft stationary and blow the bolts out. Penetrating oil is still not a bad call to avoid stripping any bolt heads.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    Location
    Oregon

    Deep creep is a decent penetrating oil. One of my favorites is a home brew mixture of Acetone, and transmission fluid.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S4

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    Texpoops "Correct, but a half inch difference isnít going to accelerate wear by much. Iím sure the front dips that much with a fatty in the front"

  23. #23
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Thanks for helping me talk through it guys. Had a feeling itíd be a ďsmack my foreheadĒ solution in the end.

    Iíve heard that acetone/trans mix works really well. Do you use a pressure sprayer for it?

  24. #24
    Senior Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    Location
    Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by PolskaWagon View Post
    Thanks for helping me talk through it guys. Had a feeling itíd be a ďsmack my foreheadĒ solution in the end.

    Iíve heard that acetone/trans mix works really well. Do you use a pressure sprayer for it?
    I've always used a cheap spray bottle

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S4

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    Texpoops "Correct, but a half inch difference isnít going to accelerate wear by much. Iím sure the front dips that much with a fatty in the front"

  25. #25
    Active Member Two Rings PolskaWagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 26 2018
    AZ Member #
    421340
    Location
    South Bend IN

    Thats good to know. Was thinking the acetone may have an ill effect on the plastic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2018 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.