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  1. #81
    Established Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    The sky is falling lol.

    Iím not too worried, tho I understand the frustration from the owners who have to deal with this. You can call it crap engineering or whatever you want but Audi hasnít let me down yet and Iíve owned 5 new cars since 2009. Iíll continue to drive and beat the piss out of my car and if it breaks... then thatís what a warranty is for. 6 months ago the RS3 2.5 rumors were spreading like wildfire, word was that 4 or 5 motors hatched in a short amount of time. Well most seem to still be doing well and now with APR tunes.
    The only variable I can see so far as that all these b9 failures were around or before the first 10k oil change.


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  2. #82
    Senior Member Four Rings 4ringnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    The sky is falling lol.

    Iím not too worried, tho I understand the frustration from the owners who have to deal with this. You can call it crap engineering or whatever you want but Audi hasnít let me down yet and Iíve owned 5 new cars since 2009. Iíll continue to drive and beat the piss out of my car and if it breaks... then thatís what a warranty is for. 6 months ago the RS3 2.5 rumors were spreading like wildfire, word was that 4 or 5 motors hatched in a short amount of time. Well most seem to still be doing well and now with APR tunes.
    The only variable I can see so far as that all these b9 failures were around or before the first 10k oil change.


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    Audi is complete and utter shit.......but itís my kind of shit. Iím on my 3rd and def not last. Will keep buying them as long as they keep fixing them for free.


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  3. #83
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperCar's Avatar
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    B9 S4 blown motor!

    Quote Originally Posted by diabolical1 View Post
    I tend to agree with this, myself. I don't know what Audi's end-stage, long-term R&D protocols entail, but I would imagine if the engine got rushed to market for any reason, something could have been missed. For what it's worth, I share your points of view - with the understanding that I am not a formal engineer.


    Agreed, again. Too many factors out in the real world that can aggravate a possible faulty OEM tune and/or critical sensor.


    I agree wholeheartedly - even with the advancements in oils and engine materials and designs. That said, I'm not one prone to gambling, but I would bet heavily that oil has nothing to do with these engines crapping themselves. Everything earlier posts have described so far points to detonation.


    No maybes about it. It is a hotbed (pun intended) for heat, however, I don't doubt that it can work - and even be reliable. I would be curious to see how many, if any, of the 4.0 cars/engines have shown similar experiences.
    The 4.0tt has serious issues blowing turbos... check the s6 forums... itís the oil screen getting clogged. Design flaw in the oil screen.

    I donít think this is similar here but just an FYI
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  4. #84
    Senior Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleeperCar View Post
    The 4.0tt has serious issues blowing turbos... check the s6 forums... itís the oil screen getting clogged. Design flaw in the oil screen.

    I donít think this is similar here but just an FYI
    Not really widespread/common issue, but definately something to watch for on our platform. Problem is that the oil screen is nearly impossible to get to, so no way to check it unless you have like 8h or $1300 to spend. And as much as Audi doesnít want to admit it, it is clearly shitty design and should have been a maintenance item. Best thing is more frequent oil changes and probably BG flush. With that said, going to rs turbos is so worth it if they do blow.


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  5. #85
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by wangshuo1989 View Post
    I think 0W20 is fine, it all depends on how the engine was designed. My Volvo's twin charged engine calls for 0W20 Volvo special oil and it's doing it just fine.
    So you have a T6 Volvo? We have a new 2018 S90 T6 w/Polestar tune. What do you think about the power train? I think itís generally garbage (pulsating, inconsistent power delivery, etc).


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicotino15 View Post
    I love the sky is falling attitudes in here, reminds me of the mentality on seeking alpha - stock market is crashing!

    Did everyone completely miss the thread starters remark about low oil? If the oil was low to begin with, or somehow became low during driving, it seems logical that it could also cause catastrophic failure. Who knows how low it was, maybe it was half empty? For sure, this engine is already in a lot of cars, S4, S5, SQ5, 2019 A8, it will be in 2019 A6 and A7 as well. From my viewpoint, there is little evidence of a design flaw, and pretty likely outcome that low oil caused catastrophic failure. I for one, bought an ECS dipstick and check mine on a regular basis for peace of mind (and in 2 oil change intervals I've not lost a single drop which can't be said of my thirsty B7 S4).

    I have been waiting for this and had no idea it was released. Just to confirm is this the one you purchased?

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...954ecs01-02~a/

  7. #87
    Veteran Member Four Rings AllroadCorbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkitect View Post
    So you have a T6 Volvo? We have a new 2018 S90 T6 w/Polestar tune. What do you think about the power train? I think itís generally garbage (pulsating, inconsistent power delivery, etc).


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    I drove one of the V90s and itís gorgeous but holy shit the motor is a dumpster fire. Itís so so so so bad. Some cars are made worse by their lackluster drivetrain.... the this engine actually completely ruins it


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  8. #88
    Senior Member Three Rings nicotino15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -LoneStar- View Post
    I have been waiting for this and had no idea it was released. Just to confirm is this the one you purchased?

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...954ecs01-02~a/
    Yep, that's it. I didn't know it was available either, I just randomly checked one day, saw it and ordered. It fits perfectly. I also have an ECS dipstick for my wife's 2016 Q5 3.0T and I do like that one a bit better for reading (plus it was cheaper), but this one is made with better materials and works well enough for me.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Two Rings Marlon177's Avatar
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    Just curious, the B9 SQ5 has the same engine as B9 S4/5?


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  10. #90
    Veteran Member Four Rings AllroadCorbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlon177 View Post
    Just curious, the B9 SQ5 has the same engine as B9 S4/5?


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    Yes


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  11. #91
    Registered Member One Ring cbagz's Avatar
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    My min oil light came on today @ 7600 miles is this normal?

  12. #92
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    We had a TFM come out today(some guy in business casual that Audi sends out to investigate stuff like this) and he had us disassemble the S4 motor. Scoring in almost every cylinder. #5 rod bearing was spun. Crank was damaged. We had a shop meeting and we all think there are two causes; detonation and the 0w20 oil.

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  13. #93
    Senior Member Three Rings nicotino15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    We had a TFM come out today(some guy in business casual that Audi sends out to investigate stuff like this) and he had us disassemble the S4 motor. Scoring in almost every cylinder. #5 rod bearing was spun. Crank was damaged. We had a shop meeting and we all think there are two causes; detonation and the 0w20 oil.

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    There you go, better recall every B cycle 3.0T in every S4, S5, A8 and SQ5.

  14. #94
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    We plasti-gauged the rod bearing tolerances and they were all (except #5) slightly past of .0015". It's not completely accurate since the engine isn't new anymore, but we just wanted to see. Those tolerances seem to be big for running 0w-20. TFM guy said he'd feel comfortable running a .002" tolerance with 0w20.... 🤷

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  15. #95
    Senior Member Four Rings 4ringnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbagz View Post
    My min oil light came on today @ 7600 miles is this normal?
    Seems premature, but typical for Audi. Mine came on at 9400. And then.......


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  16. #96
    Veteran Member Four Rings jygesq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    We had a TFM come out today(some guy in business casual that Audi sends out to investigate stuff like this) and he had us disassemble the S4 motor. Scoring in almost every cylinder. #5 rod bearing was spun. Crank was damaged. We had a shop meeting and we all think there are two causes; detonation and the 0w20 oil.

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    why would Audi use such a light weight oil? Better mileage? B 8.5 use 30w oil .Maybe boost is set too high to get more HP than B.5 motor? Got to show more power & efficiency in next incarnation of the 3.0 v-6 .? it would have be more prudent to extensively test the new engine , before your customers get stuck with untested engine.
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicotino15 View Post
    Yep, that's it. I didn't know it was available either, I just randomly checked one day, saw it and ordered. It fits perfectly. I also have an ECS dipstick for my wife's 2016 Q5 3.0T and I do like that one a bit better for reading (plus it was cheaper), but this one is made with better materials and works well enough for me.
    Thank you ordering now!
    Quote Originally Posted by cbagz View Post
    My min oil light came on today @ 7600 miles is this normal?
    The digital read out on mine shows its half down and I'm at 5300 miles. I actually viewed the digital read out while driving today and I swear it looked like it was slightly moving up and down depending on drive angle (up incline down incline) so maybe its more accurate then we think? Hence why I'm getting a good old fashioned mechanical dip stick for peace of mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    We had a TFM come out today(some guy in business casual that Audi sends out to investigate stuff like this) and he had us disassemble the S4 motor. Scoring in almost every cylinder. #5 rod bearing was spun. Crank was damaged. We had a shop meeting and we all think there are two causes; detonation and the 0w20 oil.


    So the plot thickens.....Do you think the scoring in all the cylinders was because of the spun bearing releasing mass amounts of tin, copper, lead into the oil?

    What led you guys to conclude it was most likely detonation and the oil weight? Can you look at ECU logs to see timing being pulled due to knock from the detonation? Is this an example of low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that direct injection motors are plagued with? How is the proper road bearing tolerance calculated? Is it based on bore and stroke and overall engine size? Power density output? I really don't know so would be interested in learning.

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  18. #98
    Senior Member Four Rings 4ringnut's Avatar
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    So, AoA was suppose to contact me yesterday. Unfortunately I never got the phone call. Going full nuclear on Monday.


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  19. #99
    Veteran Member Four Rings AllroadCorbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbagz View Post
    My min oil light came on today @ 7600 miles is this normal?
    Nope. 2.0T oil consumption issue part 2, 3.0 edition lol


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  20. #100
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllroadCorbin View Post
    Nope. 2.0T oil consumption issue part 2, 3.0 edition lol


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    You think so? man... you think they would have learned their lesson after that debacle
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  21. #101
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    A few blown engines ....

    I drive my S4 very hard. How hard you ask... at 8k miles i needed all new tires, at 10k brakes, here again around 18k just a the dealer for scheduled maintenance. He said i may want to consider tires and brakes again before the fall. So yes i push the car and not an issue no issues service lights nothing just the boys in blue are really starting to be annoying.

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  22. #102
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    Don't forget the Panamera and Cayenne use the same engine.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnEnglish View Post
    Don't forget the Panamera and Cayenne use the same engine.
    The 2.9L is similar but not the same.

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  24. #104
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    The base models of both use the 3.0.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    We plasti-gauged the rod bearing tolerances and they were all (except #5) slightly past of .0015". It's not completely accurate since the engine isn't new anymore, but we just wanted to see. Those tolerances seem to be big for running 0w-20. TFM guy said he'd feel comfortable running a .002" tolerance with 0w20.... 🤷

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    So the plot thickens.....Do you think the scoring in all the cylinders was because of the spun bearing releasing mass amounts of tin, copper, lead into the oil?

    What led you guys to conclude it was most likely detonation and the oil weight? Can you look at ECU logs to see timing being pulled due to knock from the detonation? Is this an example of low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that direct injection motors are plagued with? How is the proper road bearing tolerance calculated? Is it based on bore and stroke and overall engine size? Power density output? I really don't know so would be interested in learning.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by -LoneStar- View Post
    So the plot thickens.....Do you think the scoring in all the cylinders was because of the spun bearing releasing mass amounts of tin, copper, lead into the oil?

    What led you guys to conclude it was most likely detonation and the oil weight? Can you look at ECU logs to see timing being pulled due to knock from the detonation? Is this an example of low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that direct injection motors are plagued with? How is the proper road bearing tolerance calculated? Is it based on bore and stroke and overall engine size? Power density output? I really don't know so would be interested in learning.
    We believe the scoring is due to detonation (cylinder detonates and knocks the piston into the wall). We believe the 0w-20 is also a factor because other engines that use the oil are having problems as well, like the CZRA engines. I'm honestly not sure if we can bring up ECM data from past drives, if they were on logged with a scan then yes obviously. I looked at freeze frame data when the knock sensor set a code, and it started to detect knock in the higher rpm range.

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  27. #107
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -LoneStar- View Post
    So the plot thickens.....Do you think the scoring in all the cylinders was because of the spun bearing releasing mass amounts of tin, copper, lead into the oil?

    What led you guys to conclude it was most likely detonation and the oil weight? Can you look at ECU logs to see timing being pulled due to knock from the detonation? Is this an example of low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that direct injection motors are plagued with? How is the proper road bearing tolerance calculated? Is it based on bore and stroke and overall engine size? Power density output? I really don't know so would be interested in learning.
    I would log misfire activity not timing pull. Youre going to see timing pull on every audi engine since 2009. Thats how they prevent dangerous knock. Id look at misfire, afr, and egt. This will tell u about detonation. Youd probably want to use a logger with much better resolution than vcds as well to catch this activity thst can be ms long

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  28. #108
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    Everyone needs to chill the F out a little bit on this thread. Audi/VW group make great products that are far above averages in the industry. Much better then most other companies.

    ALL CARS (and products for that matter)... German, Japanese, American and every other country of origin, have a % of engine (or parts) failures that happen.
    Cars/Engines are machines, they work on extremely tight tolerances, and although as time goes on and products and manufacturing improves, and failures start to effect smaller and smaller %'s of engines, they will continue to exist. Whether you change the oil at 1000 mile or 15000 mile intervals . Whether you run 6 pounds of boost, or 25 pounds of boost, beat the hell out of the car daily or drive 1000 miles a week at 1800 RPM on the highway...... there are going to unfortunately be failures. It's part of this industry like every other industry in the world. Also, on a message forum or on the internet, you are always going to hear a lot more of peoples problems and complaints..... because human nature is just that if you don't have an issue with your car/engine, people will not likely post online... "oh I have a fantastic 2018 S4 that I am putting 3000 mils a month on and haven't had one issue"... It's always the horror stories we hear often on AZ and the rest of the internet. If everyone saw the actual % of failures, rather then just a problem thread when someone had a failure, I assure you guys that everyone would feel MUCH BETTER about things.

    That's why Audi (and other manufacturers) stand behind their products in almost every case unless there is serious negligence. This will be the case forever (or until someone figures out how to make absolutely bulletproof, consistent products that don't vary in manufacturing, tolerances, and wear..... and last forever without failure (which is impossible in this day and age and in our lifetimes).)

    The likelyhood that any of us are going to have an issue with our cars, especially with a catastrophic engine failure, is very low.

    People shouldn't be so worried #1, and #2 shouldn't be so eager to bash Audi especially if you haven't had a personal issue with them, that Audi hasn't had a chance to fix yet.

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    .

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  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    The 2.9L is similar but not the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exescshot View Post
    The base models of both use the 3.0.
    Yeah the base models of the Cayenne and the Panamera use the single turbo 3.0L. The higher versions (and the Macan) use the twin turbo 2.9L.

    Anyway, until we start seeing wide spread failures in Audis and Porshces I'm thinking it's just regular defects. There's always a couple of people posting on the BMW boards about how their new N63 V8 had to be replaced for one reason or another but it's just one of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnEnglish View Post
    Yeah the base models of the Cayenne and the Panamera use the single turbo 3.0L. The higher versions (and the Macan) use the twin turbo 2.9L.
    Did not know that haha. Learn something new everyday. I just assumed they all had the 2.9

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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by casey_tuzziano View Post
    .

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    A new engine should not be released w/o extensive testing by AUDI. Customers should not be field testers
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  33. #113
    Senior Member Two Rings vdubtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jygesq View Post
    A new engine should not be released w/o extensive testing by AUDI. Customers should not be field testers
    Do we know extensive testing was not conducted by Audi? With any model of car, there are a percentage that have issues. Unfortunately for the OP, he is part of that percentage. We just don't know if this is a more widespread issue than a few vehicles.
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  34. #114
    Veteran Member Four Rings Dr GP's Avatar
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    Leave it to Audi, to stop using the bulletproof 3.0 supercharged engine in the B8 S4/ S5 and replace it with a different 3.0 engine just because they changed the forced air induction system It would have been really easy to just tweak the supercharged 3.0 to get the same level of performance as the newer turbo 3.0. Can't wait for them to blame the owners for an improper break in technique.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr GP View Post
    Leave it to Audi, to stop using the bulletproof 3.0 supercharged engine in the B8 S4/ S5 and replace it with a different 3.0 engine just because they changed the forced air induction system It would have been really easy to just tweak the supercharged 3.0 to get the same level of performance as the newer turbo 3.0. Can't wait for them to blame the owners for an improper break in technique.
    I am not 100% but about 95% sure that the new 3.0 has the same if not stronger components then the B8 3.0L engine had.

    It would be unlike Audi, and cost them more money in the long run to regress and have issues with the motors in these cars.

    Like I said in my other post... just because you are hearing that a few people had a few problems with their cars, doesn't mean that there are widespread problems. You always tend to hear only the horror stories about engines breaking.... and not the success stories or problem free cars.

    Every company has a small % of failure in their motors. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it. You just hear more about it nowadays then you did 10-15 years ago because of the internet and message forums.

  36. #116
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy19 View Post
    I am not 100% but about 95% sure that the new 3.0 has the same if not stronger components then the B8 3.0L engine had.

    It would be unlike Audi, and cost them more money in the long run to regress and have issues with the motors in these cars.

    Like I said in my other post... just because you are hearing that a few people had a few problems with their cars, doesn't mean that there are widespread problems. You always tend to hear only the horror stories about engines breaking.... and not the success stories or problem free cars.

    Every company has a small % of failure in their motors. It happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it. You just hear more about it nowadays then you did 10-15 years ago because of the internet and message forums.
    All valid points, but itís still concerning to hear about this so early on... and certainly should be something that we all follow to see resolution and hopefully some root cause analysis to better understand the pitfalls of this platform.


    In 2009 the a4 (also a first model year) is a perfect example of this.... people thought it was just normal defect, it took a class action lawsuit for Audi to acknowledge it was a serious defect and cough up a covered engine fix for the oil consumption issue.
    2013 A4 Scuba Blue Metallic | APR stage 2 | AWE | Milltek | GFB+ | Suntek | Solo-Werks | Eurocode | Blesk | 034 | ECStuning | CR-15 Strut brace | Apikol | R8 Coilpacks | NGK | Akebono | Hawk |MRR-GF07 19x9.5 ET38 | 18x8.5 peeler reps ET 40 (winter)

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleeperCar View Post
    All valid points, but itís still concerning to hear about this so early on... and certainly should be something that we all follow to see resolution and hopefully some root cause analysis to better understand the pitfalls of this platform.


    In 2009 the a4 (also a first model year) is a perfect example of this.... people thought it was just normal defect, it took a class action lawsuit for Audi to acknowledge it was a serious defect and cough up a covered engine fix for the oil consumption issue.
    His points are COMPLETELY valid. What he's trying to say is that whether there is a problem or not, it isn't statistically determined by TWO random people on an enthusiast internet board frequented by a bunch of hacks (me included). Statistics and perspective people. Sheesh.

  38. #118
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkitect View Post
    His points are COMPLETELY valid. What he's trying to say is that whether there is a problem or not, it isn't statistically determined by TWO random people on an enthusiast internet board frequented by a bunch of hacks (me included). Statistics and perspective people. Sheesh.
    Yea Iím not arguing that, just acknowledging that itís concerning.

    especially considering my plan was to tune this car if/when purchased (as soon as viable tune is released) which would void engine warranty and make you a sitting duck if this occurred.

    All Iím saying is this isnít cause for not buying a b9 s4 but rather just a concern to be followed up on and Iím curious to see if others chime in.
    2013 A4 Scuba Blue Metallic | APR stage 2 | AWE | Milltek | GFB+ | Suntek | Solo-Werks | Eurocode | Blesk | 034 | ECStuning | CR-15 Strut brace | Apikol | R8 Coilpacks | NGK | Akebono | Hawk |MRR-GF07 19x9.5 ET38 | 18x8.5 peeler reps ET 40 (winter)

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleeperCar View Post
    Yea Iím not arguing that, just acknowledging that itís concerning.

    especially considering my plan was to tune this car if/when purchased (as soon as viable tune is released) which would void engine warranty and make you a sitting duck if this occurred.

    All Iím saying is this isnít cause for not buying a b9 s4 but rather just a concern to be followed up on and Iím curious to see if others chime in.
    Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily directing my comment to you (though I did quote your post, ha!), but rather all of the hand-wringing by so many previous posters.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkitect View Post
    His points are COMPLETELY valid. What he's trying to say is that whether there is a problem or not, it isn't statistically determined by TWO random people on an enthusiast internet board frequented by a bunch of hacks (me included). Statistics and perspective people. Sheesh.
    Let's not forget that the earlier versions of the supercharged 3.0 (and DSG) had their own problems that were addressed later on.

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