3.0T timing chain guides

[SQive]

I'm going to guess CVU joint.

[vocabsr]

Definitely not the same noise. Chain tensioner noise was only during start up and for 1 to 3 seconds max. Sounded like a playing card in bicycle spokes going around 5 mph but for only a few seconds and it would stop immediately after. Doesn't mean the noise in your vid isn't the chain tensioners, just not the same noise for sure. Could be a chain guide maybe but I'd imagine you'd hear that at most rpms if that failed. And yours sounds very metallic if I'm hearing it correctly, chain guides are plastic afaik.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Audizine mobile app

Do you think it could be a hole in the exhaust or the flex pipe?

[vocabsr]

I'm going to guess CVU joint.

I will research that. Thank you

[varanone]

I will research that. Thank you

Is the noise only when the car is driven or does it come up when free revving the car in park or neutral? Did you have someone listen while you lightly rev the engine higher and lower to see if it is isolated to under car or under hood? Perhaps an exhaust leak of some sort? Is it speed dependent or enfinw rpm dependent?

Sent from my LM-G710 using Audizine mobile app

[SteelCity_S4]

My rattle on my 14 SQ5 is becoming way more noticeable and I must say this might be my last Audi. Love the cars but going through this on my 2004 S4 and now again 10 years later (no change in design or engineering) on a 14 SQ5 is absolutely ridiculous for the price of these cars. I’m going to get in touch with Audi of America and see what those clowns have to say. Got a few lawyer friends too..people filed class action suit about sunroofs so why should this be any different. Audi knows about the issue and did nothing to change design. Didn’t people sue Apple in a class action suit for same kinda thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alphaVR]

I'll throw this into the mix... I recently changed my oil and went with Schaeffer’s 5w-40 full synthetic. My timing chain noise on cold starts was not only greatly reduced in how long they made noise, but how loud it is when they do make noise. Might be worth switching up the oil you're using as that could be contributing to the noise you hear. That said, there's nothing any oil can do if the guides are worn/broken. Just something to consider here

[jpatterson]

My 2015 S5 had developed a cold start timing chain rattle over the last few thousand miles. It was pretty noticeable if the engine had been shut down more than 24 hours before restarting. My warranty was about to end this month so I went ahead and addressed it with the dealer. They agreed that this service bulletin applied and this work needed to be done. It was pretty trouble free. I dropped it off on a Friday. It sat over the weekend. They listened to it on Monday and heard the rattle. They ordered the parts and by Friday it was finished. The coldstart rattle is totally gone. I have driven it two thousand miles since the work was done and have allowed it to sit for over 36 hours a couple of times before restarting. Quiet and solid. I did ask my service advisor whom I have dealt with for years if I could have the most senior tech do the job. She was happy to accommodate me on that and everything went great. Kudos to Audi of Birmingham for taking care of it.

Here is a before and after sound clip.

Before repair
https://youtu.be/VbedET-_HB4

After repair
https://youtu.be/amCkXH1-8n4

[S5-]

Interesting. My 2013 S5 is doing this with 17K miles. I'd almost consider taking it to Birmingham just to have the peace of mind that they completed this successfully. Did they mention if they had to pull the engine? Or did they just disconnect the exhaust to access?

[a1dan_87]

Rattle on cold start is normal, as I believe the tensioners are hydraulic- and as the engine sits, the tensioners lose oil simply to gravity. My A6 has been consistently rattling on winter starts for multiple minutes until it's warm. Any start with ambient below 35 or so degrees, the rattle doesn't go away after a few seconds. 68,000 miles.

Sent from my PH-1 using Audizine mobile app

[jpatterson]

Interesting. My 2013 S5 is doing this with 17K miles. I'd almost consider taking it to Birmingham just to have the peace of mind that they completed this successfully. Did they mention if they had to pull the engine? Or did they just disconnect the exhaust to access?

Sorry to be so long responding. ( I should look here more often). No, the engine does not have to come out on an S5. The exhaust system did have to be removed for access. The only evidence that the car had been worked on that I observed was some popping and snapping from the down pipes and converters on the first drive as they reached operating temperature and expanded and contracted for the first time. Since then not a sound. It’s been nearly 7 months, about 5000 miles. The car often sits for a few days between drives but has not rattled on start up a single time.

[djn876]

Keep in mind you still have to pull the trans too, is not just exhaust. Probably easier to let the engine a bit as well.

From reading on the S4 forum, seems that a fair amount have the rattle come back after a while too.

For a 2013 with 15k miles, yours may just be related to the fact that the car just doesn't get driven all that often.

Personally unless it is really bad I wouldn't touch it, that's a pretty major job and a lot that could be wrong after if the guy doing it is having a bad day if you aren't doing the job yourself

[jpatterson]

Negative on dropping the trans. At least on my 6spd man S5. For upper tensioners the tech told me he only moved exhaust components for access. Did say it was a tedious job.

[djn876]

Yeah I guess I was thinking of the guides and all the lower stuff. Looked at the manual and yeah for those there is a bunch of crap to take out of the way, but the trans can stay in place. Doesn't look like a fun job.

[S5-]

Sorry to be so long responding. ( I should look here more often). No, the engine does not have to come out on an S5. The exhaust system did have to be removed for access. The only evidence that the car had been worked on that I observed was some popping and snapping from the down pipes and converters on the first drive as they reached operating temperature and expanded and contracted for the first time. Since then not a sound. It’s been nearly 7 months, about 5000 miles. The car often sits for a few days between drives but has not rattled on start up a single time.

Thanks, I apparently don't get a notification about replies either, so I am also late on responding. Anyway, my independent shop quoted me $3200 for the job. The foreman said what most have described here. I could have it done, but it's major surgery and there's no guarantee the issue won't happen again. For that price, I'm keeping my eye out for a 2016 or 2017 to just trade mine in on.

[roamingnick]

I recently payed to have the tensioners replaced on the S5. The rattle is completely gone! The dealership that did the work did not drop the engine or transmission. They just took the exhaust off along with a few other things. [/URL]

In which case what they actually did was the cam sprockets only, right?

[arjun90]

Even with the updated tensioners some folks claim to still hear a intermittent rattle on the Gen 2 3.0T motor as well Audi dumped the supercharger in favor of the twin scroll turbo. The new SQ5 and Q7 motors have switched to the turbo-aided motors

[ILVTRANCE]

still no failures just noise, so there's that.

[snowzach]

I have owned probably 6-7 Audi's now since my first 1998 B5 A4 2.8 30V V6 which I fell in love with... I always buy higher mile cars and work on them. Almost all of them have been V6's and every single one has had a noisy rattle on startup when they have sat for a minute. I am convinced it's just a product of how Audi does valve trains. The oil driven tensioners and lifters need to pump up to pressure. I have never owned any of the mid-2000 Audi models with all the timing chain failures. My understanding is a lot of those were related to crappy chains that stretched and guides that wore out prematurely. I had a 2007 Touareg with a stretched chain that jumped a tooth.

My previous car was a 2010 A6 3.0T that I bought with about 90k miles.. It rattled on startup. I sold it at 140k miles and it rattled the exact same the day I sold it as when I got it. It ran perfect. One of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

I just got this 2013 Q5 with 80k miles, it rattles when it's sat for a few days. I doesn't worry me in the least. It's still possible to have tensioner failures, but I don't believe that rattle should worry you unless it rattles for longer than a second or two when you start. I firmly believe the 3.0T is one of the best motors Audi has ever built.

[arjun90]

I strongly recommend Liqui-Moly's 0W-40 Synthoil Oil. Also, make sure your oil level is always to the max. Even a slight drop in oil pressure doesn't lube the timing components well at cold start; its at that point when oil pressure is building up. There was a third-party solution that was on the internet but was a very involved process. Nonetheless, you are absolutely right, the 3.0T is one of better motors Audi has built in addition to the virgin 3.0L engines found in many V6 C5 generation vehicles which were naturally aspirated mostly problem-free. Most people that leased these vehicles couldn't care less. But when it comes to long-term ownership, you want to make sure that the vehicle has had its oil changed during normal service intervals- which in the case of Audizine members here, stands at every 5,000 miles.

I have owned probably 6-7 Audi's now since my first 1998 B5 A4 2.8 30V V6 which I fell in love with... I always buy higher mile cars and work on them. Almost all of them have been V6's and every single one has had a noisy rattle on startup when they have sat for a minute. I am convinced it's just a product of how Audi does valve trains. The oil driven tensioners and lifters need to pump up to pressure. I have never owned any of the mid-2000 Audi models with all the timing chain failures. My understanding is a lot of those were related to crappy chains that stretched and guides that wore out prematurely. I had a 2007 Touareg with a stretched chain that jumped a tooth.

My previous car was a 2010 A6 3.0T that I bought with about 90k miles.. It rattled on startup. I sold it at 140k miles and it rattled the exact same the day I sold it as when I got it. It ran perfect. One of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

I just got this 2013 Q5 with 80k miles, it rattles when it's sat for a few days. I doesn't worry me in the least. It's still possible to have tensioner failures, but I don't believe that rattle should worry you unless it rattles for longer than a second or two when you start. I firmly believe the 3.0T is one of the best motors Audi has ever built.

[djn876]

The sump level isn't going to make any appreciable difference in delivered oil pressure. Once the lines bleed pressure down it is what it is as the sump is the low point, the oil pump is a PDP (unless this one for some reason isn't?), as long as it has a good suction, it's going to make pressure just fine. It's not a centrifugal pump where suction head is more impactful.

It will flow a constant volume and make whatever pressure it needs to based on what's in the lines. The oil level in the pan isn't really going to change that.

[mkornegay2]

I have a 2015 (early) Q5 3.0T that I just got 2 mos. ago with 110,000 miles. Changed the oil 1,000 miles ago and now I'm getting this clacking/ticking on startup for a few seconds. It was on cold starts, now it seems to be when it sits for a number of hours. Definitely sounds like the timing chain guides unfortunately. I wish I would have known this was an issues with Audi's in general. Apparently, then didn't update them as good as some said. This seems to be a huge job and something to be done by a expert mechanic, but I just don't have $3-4K for someone (not the dealer) to do it.

First, how can I tell which side is making the noise if I only want to replace one side? It looks like there is a Bank 1 and 2 and they are separate OR do you have to remove the entire back cover to reveal both simultaneously. The emission control valve on both sides has to be removed and both cats. I saw on a vid where if those bolts are seize and you round them off you're in trouble. A whole other issue then. This supposedly can be done in car, but with very limited room, not to mention the probability of getting the timing off is huge event with the tools. I just don't know what to do. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but this is a huge undertaking and I have limited resources/tools, I can't be dropping trannies and engines. I also have a PCV body code which is a whole other issue that plagues Audi's (lucky me). I don't like the clicking, and the TSB even says it won't damage anything... well until it does. I don't see how something like this won't cause problems. It's just to cover their butt until it's out of warranty and then you're on your own.

I bought a freaking lemon! Please help.

[mkornegay2]

I strongly recommend Liqui-Moly's 0W-40 Synthoil Oil. Also, make sure your oil level is always to the max. Even a slight drop in oil pressure doesn't lube the timing components well at cold start; its at that point when oil pressure is building up. There was a third-party solution that was on the internet but was a very involved process. Nonetheless, you are absolutely right, the 3.0T is one of better motors Audi has built in addition to the virgin 3.0L engines found in many V6 C5 generation vehicles which were naturally aspirated mostly problem-free. Most people that leased these vehicles couldn't care less. But when it comes to long-term ownership, you want to make sure that the vehicle has had its oil changed during normal service intervals- which in the case of Audizine members here, stands at every 5,000 miles.

So I have noticed the ticking more since my oil level has dropped 1/4 after 1,200 miles since my last oil change. When I changed it it was muddy and bad looking, like it hadn't been changed in 20K miles. I used Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 Full Synthetic as I read. I was looking at Liquid Moly too. Also was told to change every few thousand and not wait 10K like the service interval suggests. Thoughts?

[mkornegay2]

I have owned probably 6-7 Audi's now since my first 1998 B5 A4 2.8 30V V6 which I fell in love with... I always buy higher mile cars and work on them. Almost all of them have been V6's and every single one has had a noisy rattle on startup when they have sat for a minute. I am convinced it's just a product of how Audi does valve trains. The oil driven tensioners and lifters need to pump up to pressure. I have never owned any of the mid-2000 Audi models with all the timing chain failures. My understanding is a lot of those were related to crappy chains that stretched and guides that wore out prematurely. I had a 2007 Touareg with a stretched chain that jumped a tooth.

My previous car was a 2010 A6 3.0T that I bought with about 90k miles.. It rattled on startup. I sold it at 140k miles and it rattled the exact same the day I sold it as when I got it. It ran perfect. One of the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

I just got this 2013 Q5 with 80k miles, it rattles when it's sat for a few days. I doesn't worry me in the least. It's still possible to have tensioner failures, but I don't believe that rattle should worry you unless it rattles for longer than a second or two when you start. I firmly believe the 3.0T is one of the best motors Audi has ever built.

Do you feel this could do major damage? While I love the car I also have a PCV body controller issue on scan. I'm not seeing in oil in the coolant (yet), but I know this seems to also be an common major maintenance issue with Audi's which is also not a cheap or easy fix as it intels replacing other parts while the supercharger is removed. I have 111K but I don't/wasn't planning on selling anytime soon. I was hoping to keep it for 200K+ unless it becomes a money pit. Thx.

[Fast4esT]

the pcv is likely why your losing oil though a 1/4 in 1200 miles is not bad it should get worse. I just recently helped a friend pull the chain covers off a b8 s4 to reseal them and it really wasn't that difficult. I looked at mine afterwards while I was chaining my oil and we have lots more room. if you like working on cars much you can do the guides. there really isn't much all in the way aside from the combi valves. the cats do not need to be removed. there is a heat shield above each cat that you can bend out of the way enough to get your hand in there. the tensnioners are at the top

[NikolaZ]

I have a 2015 (early) Q5 3.0T that I just got 2 mos. ago with 110,000 miles. Changed the oil 1,000 miles ago and now I'm getting this clacking/ticking on startup for a few seconds. It was on cold starts, now it seems to be when it sits for a number of hours. Definitely sounds like the timing chain guides unfortunately. I wish I would have known this was an issues with Audi's in general. Apparently, then didn't update them as good as some said. This seems to be a huge job and something to be done by a expert mechanic, but I just don't have $3-4K for someone (not the dealer) to do it.

First, how can I tell which side is making the noise if I only want to replace one side? It looks like there is a Bank 1 and 2 and they are separate OR do you have to remove the entire back cover to reveal both simultaneously. The emission control valve on both sides has to be removed and both cats. I saw on a vid where if those bolts are seize and you round them off you're in trouble. A whole other issue then. This supposedly can be done in car, but with very limited room, not to mention the probability of getting the timing off is huge event with the tools. I just don't know what to do. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but this is a huge undertaking and I have limited resources/tools, I can't be dropping trannies and engines. I also have a PCV body code which is a whole other issue that plagues Audi's (lucky me). I don't like the clicking, and the TSB even says it won't damage anything... well until it does. I don't see how something like this won't cause problems. It's just to cover their butt until it's out of warranty and then you're on your own.

I bought a freaking lemon! Please help.

I changed my guides last year and the job can be done without getting the engine out. There is enough space when the shielding is removed. The only big issue is when putting the heatshileds for the cats. Now I live in eastern europe and here there is a shop that does this pretty often.
The only issue that I had was that they forgot to keep the intake valves open when putting the intakes, which lead to the flaps being stuck close. So I had to go again to the shop. They fixed it in 40-50 mins.

The Error for the PCV is probably the brether hose.
My q5 is at around the same mileage and the only issue that I am having now is: blocked SAI passages and abnormal oil consumption, which started occuring after my last oil change.

[q5 dave]

So I have noticed the ticking more since my oil level has dropped 1/4 after 1,200 miles since my last oil change. When I changed it it was muddy and bad looking, like it hadn't been changed in 20K miles. I used Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 Full Synthetic as I read. I was looking at Liquid Moly too. Also was told to change every few thousand and not wait 10K like the service interval suggests. Thoughts?

I don't have experience with timing chain guides but at that mileage it's worth replacing the PCV/thermostat/waterpump/timing belt. Oh and run 5w-40. 30 is too light.

[NikolaZ]

And clean the carbon deposits from the intake valves. At this milege I bet it will be dirty.