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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Heads up re: stage 2 with no cooling upgrades

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    When installing further upgrades on my car today, the shop found a significantly leaking water pump as well as badly leaking coolant crossover pipe seals. This was perplexing because my Q5 3.0t was built in spring 2016 and has only 37k miles, immaculate and maintained by the book. Findings were from top rated APR shop that has done many dual pulley setups etc. These were not small leaks but more of an impending failure and/or overheat soon type scenario.

    Only explanation I can think of is car ran single pulley Stage 2 with stock cooling system, and must have been running a bit too hot that way... even though only for 5 months or so. L.A. traffic I'm sure didn't help with heat soak.

    For those of you with stock cooling, please be careful. I got lucky and had them change the water pump and crossover seals with new OEM ones for relatively low cost because the car was already apart. This could otherwise be a costly repair. FYI

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapan View Post
    When installing further upgrades on my car today, the shop found a significantly leaking water pump as well as badly leaking coolant crossover pipe seals. This was perplexing because my Q5 3.0t was built in spring 2016 and has only 37k miles, immaculate and maintained by the book. Findings were from top rated APR shop that has done many dual pulley setups etc. These were not small leaks but more of an impending failure and/or overheat soon type scenario.

    Only explanation I can think of is car ran single pulley Stage 2 with stock cooling system, and must have been running a bit too hot that way... even though only for 5 months or so. L.A. traffic I'm sure didn't help with heat soak.

    For those of you with stock cooling, please be careful. I got lucky and had them change the water pump and crossover seals with new OEM ones for relatively low cost because the car was already apart. This could otherwise be a costly repair. FYI
    Our SQ5 had a coolant leak as well. It was pulled with an APR tune but the dealer fixed it under warranty as the root cause was a mechanical failure unrelated to the minor mods. I don't recall what happened but a broken crossover or burst control valve sounds familiar. I'll see if I can find the paperwork at home later.

    I think this might be a known issue...whether it's common enough for a TSB I don't know.

    Note: Ours was bad enough to trigger a dash light or alert (wife drives it so I didn't see it) and there was coolant all over the driver's side of the engine bay. Leak was towards the front/top of that side.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    So I just got stuck in terrible traffic that had me mostly idling for 30 minutes and did some observations using Torque.

    First of all, my temps got way higher just idling than they did doing WOT runs. Hit 149f IAT and 228F coolant temp. This is in 77F ambient conditions in mostly shade.

    The first interesting thing about this to me is it implies the primary heat risk for our cars isnt going fast but rather extended standstill. Now this is with the Merc Racing hx installed so keep that in mind.

    The second thing I noticed is when I turned on the AC after a long time having it off, my IAT dropped by 10+F and coolant temp dropped by 20+F over a 5 min period. So the learning is turn on AC if idling a long time! Goes against conventional wisdom but I guess its forcing fans and/or pump to run that weren't doing so even at the high temps.

  4. #4
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    After 15 min with AC on, IAT is now 132 and coolant is 200. So total drop of 15+F IAT and 25+F coolant just from turning AC on.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings SQive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapan View Post
    After 15 min with AC on, IAT is now 132 and coolant is 200. So total drop of 15+F IAT and 25+F coolant just from turning AC on.
    Shut the front door!

    Anyone care to 'splain dis shit?

    I mean, I know the Demon runs AC coolant through it's intercoolers, but not Audi, right?
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  6. #6
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Damon@IE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SQive View Post
    Shut the front door!

    Anyone care to 'splain dis shit?

    I mean, I know the Demon runs AC coolant through it's intercoolers, but not Audi, right?
    AC turns on the electric fans, causing more air to move over the radiators.

    Audi shares the engine coolant with the heat exchangers on the 3.0t, there are aftermarket kits to adapt the AC to the coolant lines and you separate the cooling system for the supercharger from the engine coolant.
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  7. #7
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    It comes down to this IMO (hypothesis): the Audi software thresholds on our cars are set too high for turning the electric fan and coolant pump to a high duty cycle, especially for vehicles with higher pulley ratio than stock. I.e. they are probably calibrated for the heat generated at stock pulley ratio levels, rather than dynamic enough to adapt to the altered conditions. Turning AC on overrides the fan and coolant pump duty cycle in those situations bringing temps back to normal levels.

    I often tried to keep AC off thinking it would generate more heat. I suspect this contributed to my coolant leak issues.

  8. #8
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Two Rings Damon@IE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapan View Post
    It comes down to this IMO (hypothesis): the Audi software thresholds on our cars are set too high for turning the electric fan and coolant pump to a high duty cycle, especially for vehicles with higher pulley ratio than stock. I.e. they are probably calibrated for the heat generated at stock pulley ratio levels, rather than dynamic enough to adapt to the altered conditions. Turning AC on overrides the fan and coolant pump duty cycle in those situations bringing temps back to normal levels.

    I often tried to keep AC off thinking it would generate more heat. I suspect this contributed to my coolant leak issues.
    Any tuner that doesn't turn up the coolant pump duty cycle is doing something wrong. ;)
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  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings
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    They must not be, because look how popular the coolant pump constant on mod is (across all tubers including APR)

  10. #10
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    I'm staying with my conservative 179mm crank pulley until I address upgraded cooling to try to avoid undue stress and coolant leaks. I live in a climate that rarely freezes, so I've upped the water to coolant ratio to 80/20 and also adding RP water wetter to the mix. Ok so far.

    Good to know that a/c helps by running the fans and pump more. Just about necessary to run a/c all year here anyway due to high temps.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | aFe Pro 5R (part#10-10121) filter in "modified" stock air box | 034 silicone throttle body hose

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Be careful out there.. 187mm crank is actually higher ratio than I was running with just an EPL SC pulley when I had these issues.

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I mean 179mm.

  13. #13
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    I usually leave my P3 on IAT display so have observed quite a few daily driver (...as well as crazy-man screwing off...) situations the past few months. I installed the P3 at same time as the APR CPS so I have nothing "stock" to compare to tho.

    By far, the highest IAT temps come on a hot humid day where A/C was running, car is shut off, and then restarted ~10 minutes later. Heat soak is way worse due to the hot A/C condensor right behind the cooler being hotter than hell w/no airflow. But, yeah, turning on the A/C on restart can get the IATs to at least in a reasonable range w/the A/C and fan running than not. With A/C off it takes a fair amount of driving >40mph to bring them down. Those fans at max gas must pull a hell of a lot of air!

    As an aside, I never realized how much worse humid air is for IATs than dry. We've had quite a few really muggy, crappy days, and while the CPS works really well for the way I use it, add some heavy humidity, and average reported temp is going to consistently be 15-20F higher even during cruise than a same temp day with low humidity. FWIW
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  14. #14
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapan View Post
    I mean 179mm.
    Our 179mm crank pulley produces the same ratio as most s/c undersized pulleys, which are 57.6mm or so. The ratio for either alone is about 2.8:1. That's as high as I am comfortable for the cats and for coolant leaks in the s/c until I upgrade cooling. Even now, I've reduced antifreeze content to 20% and added water wetter to try to help.

    I was considering CPS simply because it comes from a company that many dealers are friendly to including one close to me. I'm still in warranty. Now I'll probably stay where I am (almost 30,000 miles) until the warranty runs out.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | aFe Pro 5R (part#10-10121) filter in "modified" stock air box | 034 silicone throttle body hose

  15. #15
    Senior Member Two Rings turrifik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapan View Post
    When installing further upgrades on my car today, the shop found a significantly leaking water pump as well as badly leaking coolant crossover pipe seals. This was perplexing because my Q5 3.0t was built in spring 2016 and has only 37k miles, immaculate and maintained by the book. Findings were from top rated APR shop that has done many dual pulley setups etc. These were not small leaks but more of an impending failure and/or overheat soon type scenario.

    Only explanation I can think of is car ran single pulley Stage 2 with stock cooling system, and must have been running a bit too hot that way... even though only for 5 months or so. L.A. traffic I'm sure didn't help with heat soak.

    For those of you with stock cooling, please be careful. I got lucky and had them change the water pump and crossover seals with new OEM ones for relatively low cost because the car was already apart. This could otherwise be a costly repair. FYI
    Thanks for the heads up.
    You have a Q5 right? Is it possible that the extra heat exchanger on the SQ helps with this?

    Iím at Stage 1 and contemplating Stage 2 with a bigger crank pulley (179 or 183mm).
    Is there a consensus so far - any thoughts on the pulley diameter or effective pulley ratio above which upgraded cool is recommended?

    2014 daily driver. No track days planned here.


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  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings alpineaudi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turrifik View Post
    Thanks for the heads up.
    You have a Q5 right? Is it possible that the extra heat exchanger on the SQ helps with this?

    Iím at Stage 1 and contemplating Stage 2 with a bigger crank pulley (179 or 183mm).
    Is there a consensus so far - any thoughts on the pulley diameter or effective pulley ratio above which upgraded cool is recommended?

    2014 daily driver. No track days planned here.


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    blew my front cross pipe at the water pump recently. dealer repaired under warranty. epl stage 1. only leaked under heavy accel when engine got hot. at idle or low rpms there was no leak. still smelling burning coolant after repair... though after the dealer pressure tested the coolant system they didnt bother to clean up the exploded coolant all over my engine bay so it may still be burning off the excess.

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  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings buggravy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpineaudi View Post
    blew my front cross pipe at the water pump recently. dealer repaired under warranty. epl stage 1. only leaked under heavy accel when engine got hot. at idle or low rpms there was no leak. still smelling burning coolant after repair... though after the dealer pressure tested the coolant system they didnt bother to clean up the exploded coolant all over my engine bay so it may still be burning off the excess.

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    Same here. Went APR stage 1, and had to have water pump replaced within 1K miles. Dealer fixed under warranty, but didn't clean it up, and I still smell it 1,500 miles later. Ive tried taking pics of the splatter to make sure it doesn't change, but it's hard to tell. Coolant level hasn't dropped though, so there's definitely no significant leak, but I'm paranoid there's a smaller leak that could get bigger.
    '16 SQ5 - Sepang Blue w/Black Optics - APR Stage 1 | BC Forged RS45 w/DWS06 295 | Magnaflow | 034 RSB, endlinks, X-brace, trans insert | ROW suspension | TAG blackout badges | Carbon Fiber mirror caps

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings alpineaudi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggravy View Post
    Same here. Went APR stage 1, and had to have water pump replaced within 1K miles. Dealer fixed under warranty, but didn't clean it up, and I still smell it 1,500 miles later. Ive tried taking pics of the splatter to make sure it doesn't change, but it's hard to tell. Coolant level hasn't dropped though, so there's definitely no significant leak, but I'm paranoid there's a smaller leak that could get bigger.
    Keep me updated ill do the same. Going to end up taking mine back in within a month if the smell persists and see what they find. still pissed they left splatter everywhere as it makes it ambiguous. my coolant level hasnt dropped yet either.

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  19. #19
    Senior Member Two Rings turrifik's Avatar
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    Hmm. Sounds like stage 1 is too agressive. Maybe I need to up the ante to stage 2


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  20. #20
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpineaudi View Post
    blew my front cross pipe at the water pump recently. dealer repaired under warranty. epl stage 1. only leaked under heavy accel when engine got hot. at idle or low rpms there was no leak. still smelling burning coolant after repair... though after the dealer pressure tested the coolant system they didnt bother to clean up the exploded coolant all over my engine bay so it may still be burning off the excess.[/URL]

    Quote Originally Posted by buggravy View Post
    Same here. Went APR stage 1, and had to have water pump replaced within 1K miles. Dealer fixed under warranty, but didn't clean it up, and I still smell it 1,500 miles later. Ive tried taking pics of the splatter to make sure it doesn't change, but it's hard to tell. Coolant level hasn't dropped though, so there's definitely no significant leak, but I'm paranoid there's a smaller leak that could get bigger.

    Damn, here I am on the fence trying to decide whether or not to go stage 1 this month before APR's sale ends, and you guys have me scared now. I knew that stage 2 carried some risks for the Q5 along the lines of Stapan's original post in this thread because it doesn't have the same cooling setup that the SQ5 has, but I thought stage 1 was fairly safe without needing any supplemental changes or upgrades.

    Could there be other factors involved in your issues besides both having stage 1 tunes? I'm wondering why I haven't read more stories about similar issues considering how many members on this forum have tunes. Either way, thanks for the warnings and glad to hear you both were able to sort things out under warranty. I'm out of warranty with my 2014 Q5 so these stories have me kinda shook about going through with the tune.
    Last edited by Salty Mope; 10-07-2018 at 08:26 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings buggravy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Mope View Post
    Damn, here I am on the fence trying to decide whether or not to go stage 1 this month before APR's sale ends, and you guys have me scared now. I knew that stage 2 carried some risks for the Q5 because it doesn't have the same cooling setup that the SQ5 has, but I thought stage 1 was fairly safe without needing any supplemental changes or upgrades.

    Could there be other factors involved in your issues besides both having stage 1 tunes? I'm wondering why I haven't read more stories about similar issues considering how many members on this forum have tunes. Either way, thanks for the warnings and glad to hear you both were able to sort things out under warranty. I'm out of warranty with my 2014 Q5 so these stories have me kinda shook about going through with the tune.
    Water pump seems to be one of the few weak links on our cars. My dealer says they see them somewhat frequently regardless of tunes. There are plenty more people with tunes and no issues than tunes with issues, and to be fair mine also occurred when we had a stretch of 100+ temps for about 6 weeks straight. Sure, the tune probably puts more stress on it, but if I was out of warranty anyway I wouldn't think twice about the tune.
    '16 SQ5 - Sepang Blue w/Black Optics - APR Stage 1 | BC Forged RS45 w/DWS06 295 | Magnaflow | 034 RSB, endlinks, X-brace, trans insert | ROW suspension | TAG blackout badges | Carbon Fiber mirror caps

  22. #22
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Yeah I'll probably still end up going through with it because so many people have done it without problems, but the possibility of immediately having to do a $1k+ water pump replacement on top of the $1k+ tune, doesn't help push me off the fence that i'm on. I've got too many other upgrades left on my list... don't want to get derailed by creating new repairs that might have otherwise been years down the road.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings SQive's Avatar
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    Mine had a coolant leak from the start. It turned out to be the return fitting on the top of the reservoir.
    I know of other 3.0T engines that had coolant leaks without any aftermarket tune. I wouldn't worry about it. The car tells you if it's getting low.
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  24. #24
    Established Member Two Rings
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    FWIW I was shocked at how cheap the water pump replacement was. I think it was around 200 parts and labor. Thats with a genuine Audi replacement of course.
    The car was already apart for MercRacing hx install so that was a factor but still. I have two years left on warranty but at that price I had the shop go ahead and fix it rather than worry about the dealer seeing my mods and giving a hard time or denying the repair altogether.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Two Rings turrifik's Avatar
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    What could I expect for install cost/time for adding a heat exchanger w/ stage 2?


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  26. #26
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Mope View Post
    Damn, here I am on the fence trying to decide whether or not to go stage 1 this month before APR's sale ends, and you guys have me scared now. I knew that stage 2 carried some risks for the Q5 along the lines of Stapan's original post in this thread because it doesn't have the same cooling setup that the SQ5 has, but I thought stage 1 was fairly safe without needing any supplemental changes or upgrades.

    Could there be other factors involved in your issues besides both having stage 1 tunes? I'm wondering why I haven't read more stories about similar issues considering how many members on this forum have tunes. Either way, thanks for the warnings and glad to hear you both were able to sort things out under warranty. I'm out of warranty with my 2014 Q5 so these stories have me kinda shook about going through with the tune.
    I went Chipwerk Pro Stage 1, then EPL Stage 1, then crank pulley and EPL Stage 2. I realize I'm just a sample of one, but I've had no problem with coolant leaks at all. I'm not sure that the problems with the pipes/hoses and water pump are temperature related. They may be as likely to happen on completely stock cars. I honestly don't know, but I have no leaks, either visible or invisible. Coolant level remains the same.

    FWIW, on the separate subject of cooling efficiency, I have a regular 3.0T Q5 with no upgraded cooling system. I have elected to reduce antifreeze content from 50-50 to 80% water and 20% antifreeze and to also include Royal Purple water wetter. That's enough to deal with corrosion, and distilled water is far more efficient in transferring heat than is antifreeze, so it makes sense to run much higher water content if the weather permits.

    It is 90+ degrees here in South Mississippi, even now in October. We rarely get freezing. My car is garaged in winter and I can go back to 50-50 if it does get cold enough to require that. I doubt any of this has anything to do with coolant leaks, at least not hose/pipe or water pump related leaks.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | aFe Pro 5R (part#10-10121) filter in "modified" stock air box | 034 silicone throttle body hose

  27. #27
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Thanks for the input MSq5. I probably overreacted when I saw a couple guys with stage 1 tunes both post about their coolant/water pump issues.

    Seeing somebody say that he had water pump failure within 1k miles of his tune made me start having second thoughts, but it sounds likely that these are simply known issues or areas of concern on our Q5's, and any correlation to tuning is probably coincidental.

  28. #28
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    @SaltyMope grab the deal on the APR sale, it's a great price and it is really the only mod that you MUST DO to this car. Everything else is either small potatoes, incremental, or involves tradeoffs.

    I haven't logged temperature but when I look at the coolant temp gauge it is always half way. I've never seen it get hot so I'm assuming the coolant system is pretty well designed and can take the added engine heat of occasional runs. If you track it all bets are off because you are WOT so much and all sorts of issues may arise.

    APRs numbers for 93 Stock 3.0T Q5 271HP, stock SQ5 361HP, APR Stage 1 444HP, APR Stage 2 458HP. Riddle me this - if Audi adds an extra intercooler going to SQ5 levels with 90HP bump over Q5, while APR adds 173HP over Q5, why would you want to run all that more power with less cooling than the SQ5, and why does adding that extra 14HP to Stage 2 all of the sudden necessitate added intercooler cooling?

    Clearly you can get away with running without a better intercooler. But for reliable power and to minimize long term effects to other elements in the system you should just add the intercooler as early as possible. If you are eventually going to do it you should just do it. It is the one thing you are doing only for your car's interests that provides limited tangible payback other than keeping your car happy!

    Personally I like the APR CPS V 3.0 with it's auto bleed; for daily use it is really plug and play without any fussing. Also it is their third iteration - they've been trying to engineer this thing for a while and it seems like they considered the first two iterations to be problematic for one reason or another. Compared to any alternatives, I would bet that this has way more engineering/development time put into it.

    Last Black Friday you could find it for maybe 20% off so keep an eye out for sales. You could always do the MercRacing for $400 and DIY as an alternative but you need to be handy there.

  29. #29
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Bullet View Post
    @SaltyMope grab the deal on the APR sale, it's a great price and it is really the only mod that you MUST DO to this car. Everything else is either small potatoes, incremental, or involves tradeoffs.

    I haven't logged temperature but when I look at the coolant temp gauge it is always half way. I've never seen it get hot so I'm assuming the coolant system is pretty well designed and can take the added engine heat of occasional runs. If you track it all bets are off because you are WOT so much and all sorts of issues may arise.

    APRs numbers for 93 Stock 3.0T Q5 271HP, stock SQ5 361HP, APR Stage 1 444HP, APR Stage 2 458HP. Riddle me this - if Audi adds an extra intercooler going to SQ5 levels with 90HP bump over Q5, while APR adds 173HP over Q5, why would you want to run all that more power with less cooling than the SQ5, and why does adding that extra 14HP to Stage 2 all of the sudden necessitate added intercooler cooling?

    Clearly you can get away with running without a better intercooler. But for reliable power and to minimize long term effects to other elements in the system you should just add the intercooler as early as possible. If you are eventually going to do it you should just do it. It is the one thing you are doing only for your car's interests that provides limited tangible payback other than keeping your car happy!

    Personally I like the APR CPS V 3.0 with it's auto bleed; for daily use it is really plug and play without any fussing. Also it is their third iteration - they've been trying to engineer this thing for a while and it seems like they considered the first two iterations to be problematic for one reason or another. Compared to any alternatives, I would bet that this has way more engineering/development time put into it.

    Last Black Friday you could find it for maybe 20% off so keep an eye out for sales. You could always do the MercRacing for $400 and DIY as an alternative but you need to be handy there.
    Well, to answer your question from my perspective: The Q5 3.0 TFSI tune is purposefully very mild. It's target users may not appreciate or need the extra power on tap just by tune. The extra heat exchanger may be important, but would be marginal in the overall scheme. Bumping up to APR Stage 1 (or EPL) for those of us with the Q5 is mostly just correcting the very conservative stock tune, bringing it up to SQ5 level and then matching the SQ5 Stage 1 bump. Audi corporate has to have a reason to keep the power down on the Q5 or people might not have a reason to buy an SQ5! I was fully aware of the potential of the 3.0 engine when I chose the Q5 and knew I could match SQ5 power just with tune and some minor attention to cooling. Not that I don't like the SQ5. It's fantastic. But the Q5 with tune and a few small mods meets my needs nicely.

    Stage 2 tunes are not so much about raising maximum hp, although they do somewhat, over stage 1. What they really do is bring the boost, timing and fueling changes down into the lower part of the power band and broadly across it. Spinning the s/c faster brings that power on sooner and for a longer portion of the power curve. This DOES cause increased heat. You can see this datalogging IATs, especially on repeated pulls without recovery time.

    Stage 2 tunes that are below 3.0:1 pulley ratio do handle this heat relatively well so long as you don't do a lot of back-to-back pulls or sit in the staging lanes at the drag strip and heat soak without a way to drop temps. I'm not drag racing the car and don't typically do back-to-back WOT pulls of long duration.

    There are ways to help with cooling other than a larger heat exchanger. One way is to increase cooling efficiency by increasing the water ratio and adding water wetter. It may not be as good as a larger or secondary heat exchanger, but it does help. Another way is to increase the exchanger pump duty cycle so that it is pushing moving air through the exchanger when the car is not moving, or when IAT's rise, letting it run longer. If you monitor IATs at idle or when driving slow with the AC or heater running so that the fans stay on, you can see the IATs drop.

    Water/meth injection at the throttle body (if you take care to not try to push timing and focus on just lowering IAT's) is another safe option that has been shown to work extremely well. That's a bit more complicated than I care for at the moment.

    So, it really depends on how you are using your car. I will probably upgrade cooling at some point. I will definitely do it if I increase the supercharger pulley ratio above its present 2.8:1. But, for my use, at my tune level and blower ratio, I do not consider a heat exchanger upgrade mandatory.

    I'm still in warranty and I do consider that upgrade to be a likely TD1 with my dealer if I show up that way. It will be instantly detected. I can presently flash my tune back to stock and swap crank pulleys back to stock very easily and quickly for dealer visits. I can't do that with an aftermarket heat exchanger.

    Once the warranty expires, then I will probably increase pulley ratio to something in the low side of the "dual pulley" range and at that point upgrade the cooling. That's my reasoning.
    Last edited by MSq5; 10-09-2018 at 02:56 PM.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | aFe Pro 5R (part#10-10121) filter in "modified" stock air box | 034 silicone throttle body hose

  30. #30
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2017
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    404060
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    Brooklyn NY

    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    I'm still in warranty and I do consider that upgrade to be a likely TD1 with my dealer if I show up that way. It will be instantly detected. I can presently flash my tune back to stock and swap crank pulleys back to stock very easily and quickly for dealer visits. I can't do that with an aftermarket heat exchanger.
    This. I think this is a key reason people steer clear of the cooling upgrade. Which I can appreciate. I bought a car with a year of warranty left and did nothing with it before expiration - I just wanted to assess the car and make sure it didn't have any problems before modifying anything.

    When I started looking at tuning options I told my brother I could boost the HP a huge amount from just the software. With engineering backgrounds we then bandied about the issues an aggressive tune might cause elsewhere throughout the various systems and the problems people were reporting. Surprisingly it looked like the drivetrain could handle it well with the ZF8 and Quattro. Also the engine seemed stout from the experiences of various tuners. But the sore thumb that stood out were the reported heat soaking effects and inadequate intake cooling, with uncertain impacts on components and exhaust. It seemed like an obvious problem with an easy solution. And a big enough issue that Audi felt a need to address it in the SQ5. So I got a deal on the APR Stage 1 and APR CPS and now I have more power and better cooling than a stock SQ5.

    Can you live without it? Certainly. Will parts (such as cats) wear more than otherwise? Of course. Much of an issue? Maybe not, but who knows. The early versions of tunes were not making the same power as the current generation, so a 2013 stage 1 experience doesn't tell you much about a 2017 stage 1 experience. We will know in a few years!

    But I like my cars to be pretty bulletproof, so I have a bias that keeps me more conservative. This setup is power and reliability and consistency, and to be honest I think I'll square away the TCU for 7200 RPM AMAX type shifts before I bother with more power. And who knows - maybe I can run it on the track and take the Stage 1 Quarter record!



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