Performance Alignment Chat

[Spinnetti]

At some point we need a "suspension and handling myths busted" discussion as there is so much wrong info on the net, but for now let's talk performance street alignment. Auto-x or Road Racing would also be interesting, and all 3 require different setups. From a "what matters" to alignment specs, my hardware baseline is the 034 catalog of springs, camber plates, shock mounts, all bushing inserts, and heim jointed trailing arms. No spare tire, stock 19x8 wheels and 235 conti tires with 15mm spacers up front and 20mm in the back.

I just finished all my chassis mods and got it aligned with the following starter specs today:
- Tire Pressure 39F 36R
- Total Toe F0 R5/32" - I asked for 0, but the tech insisted it would be too squirly. Might go back and have him re-do to zero toe in the back and put in a bit more negative camber up front after I flog it a bit.
- Camber F-2.1 R-1 - Based on lowering plus the camber plates, I expected more like -2.6 in front. Maybe just because I pulled out the play in the shock tops to the positive direction when installing? Really nice to see that after the subframe collars went in, camber is same both sides without any adjustment.

From doing the alignment I learned that in roll, the outside wheels will toe-in which matters to the static settings, and means you should be able to run 0 toe or even toe out (which enhances turn-in) and still be stable as the suspension loads up as the outside wheel toes in.
Once I get some experience with this setup I'll report back results. I'm interested in others with similarly modded cars feedback also (Philly, Hunter, Racerx etc.)

Peace.

PS, planning to run 18x9 ET35 with the reverse stagger setup of 255F/235R and firestones at some point - Anybody else do this? 17's probably even better for accel & ride, but I like the ride/cornering/looks balance of the 18"s on this car the best. I also have a 18x8.5 ET35 and 255 Firestones square setup off my bug I'll probably try out too.

[Chaoscreature]

I would think you would be better off with the square setup, you can always adjust the tire pressures a bit to dial in the right amount of oversteer. My limited experience with VW/Audi cars show that you want to rotate the tires frequently.
My best recommendation would be to chalk the tires and take some very hard corners so you can monitor the tire rollover. Every tire also has its sweet spot for camber, where you get the right rollover without scrubbing. I’m assuming you know about the little triangles on the edge of the tire tread? I ran stock camber in my aggressively driven Jetta (98% Street with a few DE events spreckled in) with 280 tread wear tires and the tire wear was perfect.
Too much camber will make the car tram line and negatively affect braking/acceleration.
For most people I wouldn’t really recommend 0 toe in the rear, but you might like it. It can make the car feel darty, but it’s also reversible :)

[Spinnetti]

Thx. I've got a tire pyrometer, alignment tools etc. but not going "full science" for street tires and not concerned with tire wear. I swapped my spacers after lowering/camber plates, so the front track is now 10mm wider and the rear is 10mm narrower (20mm spacers F, 15mm R). Its extremely well balanced now and I would say perfect for 99% of the people 99% of the time. its absolutely rock solid at any speed and it doesn't feel jittery at any speed, but turn-in is "right now" when you do move the wheel. I'll likely go back and have them pull the rear toe out to zero (which is what I asked them to do in the first place). I want a bit more "activity" at the rear - I tend to throw the car in the corner, and when the trail braking causes the rear end to rotate, pull it straight with the throttle for a quite satisfying exit... can't quiiiiite do that; it'll drift evenly but its harder to pull it through that way under power. Basically it just needs more tire in the front; I'm used to much higher cornering loads so am always surprised when the tires give up. I'll burn these up then throw on my 255 square setup and see how those do. Balance would be the same, but the limit higher.

[Chaoscreature]

I would try bringing the rear tire pressures up to 39 psi (or lower the fronts to 36 if the tires aren't scrubbing or rolling over excessively). That should help get the back end out more.

The tire pyrometer works great, but its best to have a buddy run the pyrometer and jot down the numbers. I tried doing this myself at an AX once and it was a nightmare trying to get all 4 tires done quickly enough after a run to get good numbers.

034 only makes the "dynamic plus" non-adjustable camber plates, right?
https://store.034motorsport.com/dyna...-ttrs-mqb.html

[Spinnetti]

Yeah, pyro only works at high temp and it fades fast so limited use except in the hot pits on the race track. The tire pressures are a good idea but are at odds with the load they are bearing (based on load, 39/36 is about right, but for rotation, probably the other way around)... I did say I didn't really car about tire wear, but if I did that with toe rather than tire pressure, it would also reduce drag.. I'll do toe to zero, then tire pressures if that's not enough. I did get the fixed camber plates from 034 (adjustable not needed on the street). I pulled the slop out which reduced the -camber. I might just push those in and increase that some. More front end bite will also make the rear rotate more too. Its all down to nuances now anyway as its now better than I expected in the first place. I just love to fiddle with this stuff.

[Chaoscreature]

Spinnetti,
Which sway bars are you running? Sounds like you got the whole 034 catalog except their sway baars
I just ordered the 034 Motorsports rear sway bar because of the 10% off sale (and their nice brackets), and I bought their dogbone mount based on your recommendation too. I can't wait for those to show up, they will be my first mods for the A3. I'm hoping the sway bars reduce the body roll in my car, my wife got carsick the last drive we went on because the car leans so much!

[Spinnetti]

Spinnetti,
Which sway bars are you running? Sounds like you got the whole 034 catalog except their sway baars
I just ordered the 034 Motorsports rear sway bar because of the 10% off sale (and their nice brackets), and I bought their dogbone mount based on your recommendation too. I can't wait for those to show up, they will be my first mods for the A3. I'm hoping the sway bars reduce the body roll in my car, my wife got carsick the last drive we went on because the car leans so much!

lol... I got the rear bar but not the front as I didn't want any more understeer. The S3 is set up surprisingly well for a stock street car and didn't actually need much. The A3 sits a whole lot taller and is a lot softer all around. For VAG products in general, I'd have to say the rear bar is the #1 purchase for all of them followed by the dogbone insert. Did you get the endlinks too? They are really too spendy for what they are. Neuspeed links are pretty much identical but I got them $30 cheaper if memory serves. Eurocode has a couple rod ends back to back for theirs that work as well and a lot less expensive but just don't look as nice. I ran the Bug rear bar on full stiff with the stock endlinks, and they actually worked fine. The 034 springs are just about spot on for a street car and aren't too stiff IMO (though I would like just a wee bit lower). That would be a good next purchase followed by a stage 1 tune. That's where sensible people would stop spending for best bang for the buck. :)

[Chaoscreature]

Thanks for the tips!
I bought my car CPO'd so I will probably get the JB4 tuner since I have read good things about it and it won't void my "unlimited mileage" warranty :)
I did get the "Sport Package" which still sits higher than an S3, but supposedly has the S3 sway bars. I only test drove 1 S3 and it was quite a bit stiffer than the A3, even with the Sport Package.
I have H&R Sports sitting in the garage, but am hesitating to install them because my wife likes how "plush" the car rides currently (but not the body roll)... so I bought a sway bar.
The rear sway bar should be delivered this week, I am pretty excited to try it out. I will get some measurements off the endlinks when I remove them and will make my own a bit later.

Normally some good summer tires are my first upgrade, but the tires on the A3 are in great shape and have about $0 street value.