OBD Dongle Affecting ECU/TCU signal?

[ecbo0m]

Wondering if it's theoretically possible for a OBD dongle plugged into the OBD port to cause the ECU and TCU to malfunction. Too many read requests? Buried deep in another thread i can't find someone commented that this was possible.

I have a 2002 C5 Allroad 2.7T Tip with an OBD dongle from my insurance carrier (Metromile). The dongle tracks location and miles driven at the minimum.

My symptoms are:
- transmission feels like it 'slips' out of gear or TC unlocks/locks randomly in idle and recovers
- also happens in drive, but feels like transmission slams with a bang before resuming normal operation
- (gear shifts happen quickly and smoothly and car pulls hard/normally other than the above symptoms)
- (drained and filled fluid with new filter following proper 40C procedure)

I've unplugged the dongle and haven't had any symptoms so far, but could be coincidence or not enough time.

Anyone else have engine or transmission performance issues while an OBD dongle is plugged in during driving?

[m_haiser]

ive seen some funky stuff happen with insurance/anti theft/don't pay your bill and we immobilize your car, type things plugged into the obd port on some cars in just the 3 years ive worked at a dealership.

[ecbo0m]

FYI - i've driven 50-100 miles since, and haven't had a problem after taking the dongle off. Curious if anyone else has run into this issue with Torque or other dongles.

My theory is that either a) the dongle pulls enough power to cause ECU interference or b) the read requests are causing ECU interference.

If the OBD port is powered by the same power source as the ECU, then perhaps there's enough data errors to throw off or delay communication with the TCU, causing erratic shifting.

I called the insurance provider and they're providing a cigarette adapter that no longer reads ECU data.

[chris86vw]

The ECU and TCU communicate over their own little powertrain canbus which is not the same communication line/protocol that the dongle talks over. Nor is the power for hte obd2 port shared with the ecu, even if it was it wouldn't make a difference.

This problem seems coincidental and not at all related to the dongle in anyway I can think of.

[m_haiser]

The ECU and TCU communicate over their own little powertrain canbus which is not the same communication line/protocol that the dongle talks over. Nor is the power for hte obd2 port shared with the ecu, even if it was it wouldn't make a difference.

This problem seems coincidental and not at all related to the dongle in anyway I can think of.

that last line sounds like something the insurance company would say lol

[chris86vw]

that last line sounds like something the insurance company would say lol

Why?

Standard communication protocol on these is super slow, same as if you were reading/logging via a dealer scan tool or VCDS, they can't magically do more as they aren't logging the processor. Have you experienced cars that run like crap only when logging them caused by the fact you are logging them at the dealership?

There is nothing that reading this signal can do to alter how the ECU runs or communicates via another protocol with the trans and it certainly isn't causing voltage issues via the OBD2 port (that would be lessened with the cig port adapter).



At least I didn't post nonsense about insurance companies disabling vehicles for non payment...

[m_haiser]

wow defensive much? learn to take a joke man its the internet.
and I suppose I should have been more specific. not insurance companies, but used car lots can and do use such devices. I have seen them installed and seen them wreak havoc on cars.
thanks for posting.

READ this if you don't believe me.

[chris86vw]

wow defensive much? learn to take a joke man its the internet.
and I suppose I should have been more specific. not insurance companies, but used car lots can and do use such devices. I have seen them installed and seen them wreak havoc on cars.
thanks for posting.

READ this if you don't believe me.

wow ignorant much? learn to not make crap up to pretend like you have knowledge on a topic you don't.

You made stuff up for what reason? I'm not the one that threw out tracking devices and OBD insurance devices claiming I witnessed them mess cars up cars when you apparently haven't. How does that help the OP at all?

I'm fully aware that devices that are NOT AT ALL ANYTHING LIKE what the OP is using that have the specific function of disabling cars.. doing their job and disabling cars...

But that has nothing to do with the OPs post or problem, at all.



A much better link would have been to actual insurance devices being used to disable cars.. but that isn't really the device that is causing the problem it is just the gateway for it being hacked and it only works on cars that have the ability to be remotely disabled like with an onstar type system or other vulnerability. That would have been relevant to the post, but you didn't post anything relevant. Those articles do exist..

[m_haiser]

im not making anything up. I was merely saying that I have SEEN obd devices cause problems with cars. I have seen it for myself. I have SEEN a car someone bought 2nd hand, be disabled long after it had been paid off and resold and not by hacking, but by malfunction.
I wasn't at all stating that this is what was happening. I believe my original post even says I have seen these things cause issues. nothing more nothing less. not to mention the fact that not once did I ever mention tracking devices.

I now notice I posted the wrong type of device, but there are those that are hardwired in or installed via obd that can disable a vehicle from starting. my apologies for the confusion

[chris86vw]

im not making anything up. I was merely saying that I have SEEN obd devices cause problems with cars. I have seen it for myself. I have SEEN a car someone bought 2nd hand, be disabled long after it had been paid off and resold and not by hacking, but by malfunction.
I wasn't at all stating that this is what was happening. I believe my original post even says I have seen these things cause issues. nothing more nothing less. not to mention the fact that not once did I ever mention tracking devices. what are you talking about?

You keep claiming you have but even this example isn't one.

You saw an OBD insurance device disable a vehicle? You saw an anti theft device that works via an OBD port do this? (these are things you claimed) Or you saw a device that is NOT an OBD device like this in anyway that's purpose is to disable a vehicle for none payment malfunction and end up disabling it?

I believe you have seen the third one.. That has nothing to do with the OP or his problems AT ALL. There is a very important distinction that needs to be made there whether it be to assist the OP solving his problem or just preventing utter nonsense from being spread because you want to pretend you have a clue but really can't help the OP or future posters in anyway.



Sorry I typed tracking instead of anti theft, 100% on me there.. But still, no, you haven't seen an anti theft device do this either apparently, only one completely unrelated device.

[m_haiser]

ok well you can believe whatever you like. but again, I stated that I have seen obd devices cause problems. my example may have been a poor one ill admit, since I don't recall specifically if that example was obd or not but regardless. I stand by my FIRST statement in this thread.
that I have seen obd devices cause issues. the starter interrupt was merely an example

[02 A6 2.7T]

You keep claiming you have but even this example isn't one.

You saw an OBD insurance device disable a vehicle? You saw an anti theft device that works via an OBD port do this? (these are things you claimed) Or you saw a device that is NOT an OBD device like this in anyway that's purpose is to disable a vehicle for none payment malfunction and end up disabling it?

I believe you have seen the third one.. That has nothing to do with the OP or his problems AT ALL. There is a very important distinction that needs to be made there whether it be to assist the OP solving his problem or just preventing utter nonsense from being spread because you want to pretend you have a clue but really can't help the OP or future posters in anyway.



Sorry I typed tracking instead of anti theft, 100% on me there.. But still, no, you haven't seen an anti theft device do this either apparently, only one completely unrelated device.

There are plenty of documented cases of insurance OBD devices causing serious issues. Per this article from a few years ago,
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/1...r-on-the-road/

"However, buried in the court documents, the I-Team found a deposition with a Progressive claims specialist. Through February 2014, the claims specialist testified Progressive Snapshot had tallied 8,121 customer complaints and $582,009 in claims payouts"

I have read many similar articles, and suspect it is still an issue with some car / device combinations.

As an aside, OBD scanners may also cause issues ... see post #10 ... the OP was able to replicate the issue with the device installed ... https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...?highlight=OBD

[chris86vw]

There are plenty of documented cases of insurance OBD devices causing serious issues. Per this article from a few years ago,
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/1...r-on-the-road/

That isn't documentation of anything.

guy installs device on 10 year old car, has a battery failure.

That doesn't mean the device caused serious issues as the story claims.

Is it possibly that the device put a load on it that finally killed it? absolutely, that doesn't mean it was the cause. But in that case the cig lighter one that the OP also got would have done the same thing.. Heck charging his cellphone could have resulted in the same thing.


This is no different then when someone gets a tune on their car and a week later their has a coil failure. The tune did NOT break the coil, the coil was already failing and on its way out. The tune may have put the vehicle into some sort of situation where now the load on the coil was greater and it showed its weakness.

But of course there are thousands of posts about people getting a tune that "killed their coils", just because something is claimed doesn't mean that it is true or the cause.


The tip one with the torque device is interesting, but also not actually confirmed by any means it was the cause, and the person can't even confirm if the problem existed prior to it. Definitely an example ACTUALLY related to the OP though.

[02 A6 2.7T]

That isn't documentation of anything.

guy installs device on 10 year old car, has a battery failure.

That doesn't mean the device caused serious issues as the story claims.

The point I was making and highlighted in my post was the fact that, at the time the article was written, Progressive paid out over $580,000 on over 8,000 claims.
This is not anecdotal, as you keep implying ...

[chris86vw]

The point I was making and highlighted in my post was the fact that, at the time the article was written, Progressive paid out over $580,000 on over 8,000 claims.
This is not anecdotal, as you keep implying ...

Where exactly does it say that 8k claims were paid out for anything related to what the OP is experiencing? Or even drivability or communication issues at all?

It is extreme and very interesting and definitely indicates that something was up, but that could have been as simple as the device blew the fuse.. you realize that the avg claim would be about 70 bucks right?



My main comments however were regarding the alleged experience of a previous poster.. which were by definition anecdotal and I certainly didn't even imply that, I spelled it out.

[ecbo0m]

There are plenty of documented cases of insurance OBD devices causing serious issues. Per this article from a few years ago,
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/1...r-on-the-road/

"However, buried in the court documents, the I-Team found a deposition with a Progressive claims specialist. Through February 2014, the claims specialist testified Progressive Snapshot had tallied 8,121 customer complaints and $582,009 in claims payouts"

I have read many similar articles, and suspect it is still an issue with some car / device combinations.

As an aside, OBD scanners may also cause issues ... see post #10 ... the OP was able to replicate the issue with the device installed ... https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...?highlight=OBD

Yes - thank you for sharing that old thread. The problems that the OP describes are exactly the same symptoms that i have. Also on a 2002 Allroad 2.7 Tip. Probably not a coincidence that the devices cause a jolt/shudder.

The fact is that the insurance dongle isn't just drawing power - it's also functioning as an OBD scanner communicating with the ECU to at the minimum pull diagnostic codes that i can access in the mobile app. So there is some data relay there.

When i called customer service, they admitted there were issues that affected newer BMW I3s, causing the alarm to go off. Different issue than driveline symptoms, but still shows the OBD scanner can have some potential impact.

[glennda5id]

I have an 02 allroad TIP

When my Actron OBDII scanner is plugged in I get some nasty things like hard shifts from the trans here or there. I have experienced it on mutiple occasions. The OBDII data is a separate data stream from the VAG data. I think it's best to think of it as another language and when you are asking for the OBDII data you are asking the ECU to spend some CPU cycles translating VAG to OBDII. This might lead to some hiccups in the ECU performance. Could also be noise on the bus when the scanner is plugged in. Either way, there is some sort of issue.

[chris86vw]

When i called customer service, they admitted there were issues that affected newer BMW I3s, causing the alarm to go off. Different issue than driveline symptoms, but still shows the OBD scanner can have some potential impact.

That is a common problem on just about anything plugged into the OBD2 port of certain late model cars, especially BMWs. It's related to the device attempting to communicate after the alarm is armed and the car sees the activity on the can bus and sets off the alarm. That is 100% on BMW.. if you left a BMW scan tool plugged the alarm could be set off.

Like the coil issue described above, just because something is involved when a problem occurs doesn't mean it is the cause of the problem. In the case of the I3 it is BMWs anti tamper system doing exactly what its supposed to do.

[ecbo0m]

Like the coil issue described above, just because something is involved when a problem occurs doesn't mean it is the cause of the problem. In the case of the I3 it is BMWs anti tamper system doing exactly what its supposed to do.

I agree with you on the BMW point, where that's normal behavior from the manufacturer. That being said, it's clear from my experience (and those of post 12 and 17) that OBD dongle + 2002 Allroad tip causes some shifting problems.

[chris86vw]

That being said, it's clear from my experience (and those of post 12 and 17) that OBD dongle + 2002 Allroad tip causes some shifting problems.

There does seem to be something there yes.

[audinutt]

FYI - i've driven 50-100 miles since, and haven't had a problem after taking the dongle off. Curious if anyone else has run into this issue with Torque or other dongles.

My theory is that either a) the dongle pulls enough power to cause ECU interference or b) the read requests are causing ECU interference.

If the OBD port is powered by the same power source as the ECU, then perhaps there's enough data errors to throw off or delay communication with the TCU, causing erratic shifting.

I called the insurance provider and they're providing a cigarette adapter that no longer reads ECU data.

I have absolutely 100% experienced the same problem with the automatic transmissions with dongles in the OBD Port including torque that happened on both my A4 that had the Tiptronic and my A8 as well as my S8. Third-party doggles just don't seem to play well with the automatic transmissions

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