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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings Jay007's Avatar
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    What are the performance benefits of running 103 octane on mild tune?

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    Iím curious with our cars as to what the performance gains are (in HP or 1/4 mile time improvement) with stepping up from pump 91 octane to VP 103.

    Years back when I was more into strip racing (on other vehicles) I would toss in a few gallons of this at the track (mixed with 91/93 pump) and there were some decent improvements.

    Local dealers are selling 5 gallons at about $140 (CDN) so Iím not sure if itís worth it for a tenth or two.

    Feedback appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Four Rings james12lucy's Avatar
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    Itíll really depend if your car can cope with the added octane. Itís all a timing game; the more octane, the more timing you can add without detonation.

    It really wonít do all that much, other than give you peace of mind if the car isnít tuned for it. Having said that, the same is the case for methanol.

    I run 98 octane in my endurance race car because I get 54 gallon drums fairly inexpensively, because itís easy to transport, lasts fairly well, and because of its antiknock characteristics. Since Iím running 8 hour (minimum) races per day, per weekend, I like knowing the fuel is consistent and safe. I run at RMP above 4500 the entire time, so it makes sense to know the fuel will keep the engine safe. Itís not tuned for more than 93 octane, but 98 is a safety measure.

    I hope this helps.


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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Stock cars have gotten timing pull here on CA's 91 octane so you could see a little gain. If its tuned, more-so. It wont be night and day, but on my 034 91 octane tune some added E85 makes a noticeable difference. My only concern is that I don't think VP makes an unleaded 103?

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings LINDW4LL's Avatar
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    With factory tune (and Chipwerke), you should definitely see a benefit from bringing your octane up a few points- I'd say to aim for a few points over 93 (95-96?), but the timing maps will max out well before you see the full benefit of 100+ octane.
    -Hayden


  5. #5
    Senior Member Three Rings Silverbullet S4's Avatar
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    If not tuned for 103 it's a waste of $$. As Hayden suggested, hit 95-96 oct. To do that, fill up with whatever the highest octane is you have at the pump 91/93 and run 16/32oz of Boostane/Torco/Klotz boosters. Dyno proven boosters that work, cost effective and easy to transport.
    Another option is to run ~4 gallons of corn per tank if you have access to good E85.
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  6. #6
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbullet S4 View Post
    If not tuned for 103 it's a waste of $$. As Hayden suggested, hit 95-96 oct. To do that, fill up with whatever the highest octane is you have at the pump 91/93 and run 16/32oz of Boostane/Torco/Klotz boosters. Dyno proven boosters that work, cost effective and easy to transport.
    Another option is to run ~4 gallons of corn per tank if you have access to good E85.
    This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

    Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

    I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

    Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

    I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.
    Stock cars have seen timing pull on 91 octane, so Iím sure it does help. Mine, for example, felt better with some e85 on a stock tune.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

    Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

    I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.
    They do work but be aware your o2 sensors, pistons, plugs, cats will get deposits...

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  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings Jay007's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback guys. $10 for a Lucas booster VS $140 for 5 gallons of 103 (that will only help so much anyways) is likely a no brainer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
    They do work but be aware your o2 sensors, pistons, plugs, cats will get deposits...

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    Was this from a single bottle use of a booster? Or multiple tanks worth?
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay007 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys. $10 for a Lucas booster VS $140 for 5 gallons of 103 (that will only help so much anyways) is likely a no brainer.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Was this from a single bottle use of a booster? Or multiple tanks worth?
    It was 2 tanks.

    Mike

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    11.482 at 118.70mph - 97 octane - +465DA
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  11. #11
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Chris@EPL's Avatar
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    Skip the octane booster. 8-16oz of a liquid is not going to raise your octane multiple points. Even 104 gas take gals of it to raise the octane. Take 7 gals of 93 and add 3 gals of 104 and your overall octane is now 96.3. That is what 3 gals of it does. 3 gals is about 384 ounces.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings Silverbullet S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@EPL View Post
    Skip the octane booster. 8-16oz of a liquid is not going to raise your octane multiple points. Even 104 gas take gals of it to raise the octane. Take 7 gals of 93 and add 3 gals of 104 and your overall octane is now 96.3. That is what 3 gals of it does. 3 gals is about 384 ounces.
    Chris, I respect your opinion and what you've done on the tuning front but must disagree with you here. You are correct that 8oz wont do much unless you're only adding a few gallons. 16oz will take 93oct to 95ish per tank if using quality boosters which were listed (not the gas station snake oil). I have personally used Torco and Klotz with great results. You can debate the long term effect of MMT in boosters like Torco and Boostane (none in Klotz, which is another plus) but to give a blanket statement of "skip them" is a bit much. Without question there are more crappy fake octane boosters on the market but again, the ones listed are dyno and track proven to work as advertised. It's more cost effective, readily available and most important, does work if mixed properly.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbullet S4 View Post
    Chris, I respect your opinion and what you've done on the tuning front but must disagree with you here. You are correct that 8oz wont do much unless you're only adding a few gallons. 16oz will take 93oct to 95ish per tank if using quality boosters which were listed (not the gas station snake oil). I have personally used Torco and Klotz with great results. You can debate the long term effect of MMT in boosters like Torco and Boostane (none in Klotz, which is another plus) but to give a blanket statement of "skip them" is a bit much. Without question there are more crappy fake octane boosters on the market but again, the ones listed are dyno proven to work as advertised. It's more cost effective, readily available and most important, does work if mixed properly.
    Agree and i believe i recall tony posting the same. I was getting up to 26 degrees of timing using it every once on awhile. Thats prob 97 octane from 93 octane. I could do 21 degrees or so on 93

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  14. #14
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Chris@EPL's Avatar
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    Not sure about those, but should have skip the parts store octane boosters.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings Silverbullet S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@EPL View Post
    Not sure about those, but should have skip the parts store octane boosters.
    Absolutely agree with that.
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbullet S4 View Post
    Absolutely agree with that.
    Except they sell lucas at parts stores

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  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings Jay007's Avatar
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    Ok so it sounds like the majority here agree that Lucas (which I can get in Canada) is one of the best options at $10-15 VS 5 gallons of VP 103 at $140. Thanks for the feedback and opinions here guys.
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  18. #18
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    I must respectfully disagree with Chris on this one point. I have huge respect for him and Tony in all other areas.

    Lucas and NOS brands have been repeatedly independently tested and do, in fact, raise octane 30 points, which is 3 octane numbers (AKI), when mixed with either 91 or 93 octane as they recommend. Both are available at most auto parts stores. I agree with Chris about most of the other brands of octane boost -- snake oil. Might raise octane one number at best and can be dangerous.

    Lucas and NOS are safe for cats, but not so sure about plugs or 02 sensors. I'm due to pull my plugs, anyway, for inspection, regapping or replacement so I'll take a look. At 25,000 miles, they've never been out. I have no access, zero, to E85 or I'd be adding 3 gallons or so per tank, and can't justify running race gas for daily driving.

    If my plug electrodes and ground straps are red/orange, as I suspect they are, but are staying properly gapped and are not misfiring on data logs, I will probably still run Lucas or NOS on occasion. I've only used it three or four times so far, all when heat is above 90 degrees F. That red/orange color is what the active ingredient, MMT does.

    Logs I've sent to EPL were in cooler weather and were on straight 93 octane.

    Call me an idiot. Maybe I am, but it's hot as hell here and I don't want my engine pulling timing (impending knock retard) when temps are so hot you can fry eggs on the sidewalk.
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    I must respectfully disagree with Chris on this one point. I have huge respect for him and Tony in all other areas.

    Lucas and NOS brands have been repeatedly independently tested and do, in fact, raise octane 30 points, which is 3 octane numbers (AKI), when mixed with either 91 or 93 octane as they recommend. Both are available at most auto parts stores. I agree with Chris about most of the other brands of octane boost -- snake oil. Might raise octane one number at best and can be dangerous.

    Lucas and NOS are safe for cats, but not so sure about plugs or 02 sensors. I'm due to pull my plugs, anyway, for inspection, regapping or replacement so I'll take a look. At 25,000 miles, they've never been out. I have no access, zero, to E85 or I'd be adding 3 gallons or so per tank, and can't justify running race gas for daily driving.

    If my plug electrodes and ground straps are red/orange, as I suspect they are, but are staying properly gapped and are not misfiring on data logs, I will probably still run Lucas or NOS on occasion. I've only used it three or four times so far, all when heat is above 90 degrees F. That red/orange color is what the active ingredient, MMT does.

    Call me an idiot. Maybe I am, but it's hot as hell here and I don't want my engine pulling timing (impending knock retard) when temps are so hot you can fry eggs on the sidewalk.
    Mmt works no doubt. My only caution would be for folks with a warranty of any sort. Using the mmt boosters will leave signs of it everywhere including cats and pistons so if your warranty says not to use aftermarket additives....

    Mike

    2010 Audi A4 Avant 6AT - Unitronic Tuned - Bone Stock Hardware
    13.665 at 97.71mph - 93 octane - +1250DA
    Gone:
    2013 Audi S5 DSG - Unitronic Stage 2++ ECU & TCU, 3.17pr, Revo Charge Cooler, CTS Turbo Intake, ST60 380mm BBK
    11.482 at 118.70mph - 97 octane - +465DA
    --------------------------
    2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  20. #20
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mike. Understood. And, yes I'm still in warranty . . .

    Let's see what the plugs look like.
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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay007 View Post
    Ok so it sounds like the majority here agree that Lucas (which I can get in Canada) is one of the best options at $10-15 VS 5 gallons of VP 103 at $140. Thanks for the feedback and opinions here guys.
    I didnít catch it so sorry if itís in there, but why not any e85?

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by theweebabyseamus View Post
    I didnít catch it so sorry if itís in there, but why not any e85?
    E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotic View Post
    E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada
    Ah, that makes sense then.

    Personally Iíd rather run w/m injection than mess with octane boosters.

  24. #24
    Established Member Two Rings no_money2supe's Avatar
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    To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

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  25. #25
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    Torco is awesome! I carry a couple cans in the trunk when traveling just in case I cant find good gas (min 91 octane).
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  26. #26
    Established Member Two Rings Jay007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by no_money2supe View Post
    To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app
    Thanks for the heads up! I will keep this in mind to try sometime and was not aware of this station.
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  27. #27
    Established Member Three Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotic View Post
    E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada
    And is some parts of the US. I'm only about 30 miles or so from one of the largest petroleum refineries in the US (Chevron, Pascagoula, MS), so high quality 93 octane is plentiful and cheap, but no access to E85. I'd have to drive about an hour and a half each way just to find it.
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  28. #28
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by no_money2supe View Post
    To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app
    Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info!
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