What are the performance benefits of running 103 octane on mild tune?

[Jay007]

I’m curious with our cars as to what the performance gains are (in HP or 1/4 mile time improvement) with stepping up from pump 91 octane to VP 103.

Years back when I was more into strip racing (on other vehicles) I would toss in a few gallons of this at the track (mixed with 91/93 pump) and there were some decent improvements.

Local dealers are selling 5 gallons at about $140 (CDN) so I’m not sure if it’s worth it for a tenth or two.

Feedback appreciated.

[james12lucy]

It’ll really depend if your car can cope with the added octane. It’s all a timing game; the more octane, the more timing you can add without detonation.

It really won’t do all that much, other than give you peace of mind if the car isn’t tuned for it. Having said that, the same is the case for methanol.

I run 98 octane in my endurance race car because I get 54 gallon drums fairly inexpensively, because it’s easy to transport, lasts fairly well, and because of its antiknock characteristics. Since I’m running 8 hour (minimum) races per day, per weekend, I like knowing the fuel is consistent and safe. I run at RMP above 4500 the entire time, so it makes sense to know the fuel will keep the engine safe. It’s not tuned for more than 93 octane, but 98 is a safety measure.

I hope this helps.


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[theweebabyseamus]

Stock cars have gotten timing pull here on CA's 91 octane so you could see a little gain. If its tuned, more-so. It wont be night and day, but on my 034 91 octane tune some added E85 makes a noticeable difference. My only concern is that I don't think VP makes an unleaded 103?

[LINDW4LL]

With factory tune (and Chipwerke), you should definitely see a benefit from bringing your octane up a few points- I'd say to aim for a few points over 93 (95-96?), but the timing maps will max out well before you see the full benefit of 100+ octane.

[Silverbullet S4]

If not tuned for 103 it's a waste of $$. As Hayden suggested, hit 95-96 oct. To do that, fill up with whatever the highest octane is you have at the pump 91/93 and run 16/32oz of Boostane/Torco/Klotz boosters. Dyno proven boosters that work, cost effective and easy to transport.
Another option is to run ~4 gallons of corn per tank if you have access to good E85.

[MSq5]

If not tuned for 103 it's a waste of $$. As Hayden suggested, hit 95-96 oct. To do that, fill up with whatever the highest octane is you have at the pump 91/93 and run 16/32oz of Boostane/Torco/Klotz boosters. Dyno proven boosters that work, cost effective and easy to transport.
Another option is to run ~4 gallons of corn per tank if you have access to good E85.

This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.

[theweebabyseamus]

This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.

Stock cars have seen timing pull on 91 octane, so I’m sure it does help. Mine, for example, felt better with some e85 on a stock tune.

[bhvrdr]

This. I have a 93 octane Stage 2 tune and sometimes run a bottle of Lucas or NOS octane boost with a full tank fill-up.

Only those two brands, to my knowledge, give you a true 30 octane points, which is 3 octane numbers increase, while being safe for your cats. In other words, they raise 91 octane to 94 octane, or 93 octane to 96. Royal Purple might. Most of the others are pure snake oil that maybe raise octane a single octane number or may be harmful to you cats.

I have no access to E85. I don't think 96 octane in this manner actually produces more power. Once your tune maxes our boost and timing, more octane does not make more power, but it does reduce likelihood of pulling timing. When the ECU pulls timing advance this will reduce otherwise available power, especially in the hot Deep South weather where I live.

They do work but be aware your o2 sensors, pistons, plugs, cats will get deposits...

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[Jay007]

Thanks for the feedback guys. $10 for a Lucas booster VS $140 for 5 gallons of 103 (that will only help so much anyways) is likely a no brainer.

- - - Updated - - -

They do work but be aware your o2 sensors, pistons, plugs, cats will get deposits...

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Was this from a single bottle use of a booster? Or multiple tanks worth?

[bhvrdr]

Thanks for the feedback guys. $10 for a Lucas booster VS $140 for 5 gallons of 103 (that will only help so much anyways) is likely a no brainer.

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Was this from a single bottle use of a booster? Or multiple tanks worth?

It was 2 tanks.

Mike

[Chris@EPL]

Skip the octane booster. 8-16oz of a liquid is not going to raise your octane multiple points. Even 104 gas take gals of it to raise the octane. Take 7 gals of 93 and add 3 gals of 104 and your overall octane is now 96.3. That is what 3 gals of it does. 3 gals is about 384 ounces.

[Silverbullet S4]

Skip the octane booster. 8-16oz of a liquid is not going to raise your octane multiple points. Even 104 gas take gals of it to raise the octane. Take 7 gals of 93 and add 3 gals of 104 and your overall octane is now 96.3. That is what 3 gals of it does. 3 gals is about 384 ounces.

Chris, I respect your opinion and what you've done on the tuning front but must disagree with you here. You are correct that 8oz wont do much unless you're only adding a few gallons. 16oz will take 93oct to 95ish per tank if using quality boosters which were listed (not the gas station snake oil). I have personally used Torco and Klotz with great results. You can debate the long term effect of MMT in boosters like Torco and Boostane (none in Klotz, which is another plus) but to give a blanket statement of "skip them" is a bit much. Without question there are more crappy fake octane boosters on the market but again, the ones listed are dyno and track proven to work as advertised. It's more cost effective, readily available and most important, does work if mixed properly.

[bhvrdr]

Chris, I respect your opinion and what you've done on the tuning front but must disagree with you here. You are correct that 8oz wont do much unless you're only adding a few gallons. 16oz will take 93oct to 95ish per tank if using quality boosters which were listed (not the gas station snake oil). I have personally used Torco and Klotz with great results. You can debate the long term effect of MMT in boosters like Torco and Boostane (none in Klotz, which is another plus) but to give a blanket statement of "skip them" is a bit much. Without question there are more crappy fake octane boosters on the market but again, the ones listed are dyno proven to work as advertised. It's more cost effective, readily available and most important, does work if mixed properly.

Agree and i believe i recall tony posting the same. I was getting up to 26 degrees of timing using it every once on awhile. Thats prob 97 octane from 93 octane. I could do 21 degrees or so on 93

[Chris@EPL]

Not sure about those, but should have skip the parts store octane boosters.

[Silverbullet S4]

Not sure about those, but should have skip the parts store octane boosters.

Absolutely agree with that.

[bhvrdr]

Absolutely agree with that.

Except they sell lucas at parts stores

[Jay007]

Ok so it sounds like the majority here agree that Lucas (which I can get in Canada) is one of the best options at $10-15 VS 5 gallons of VP 103 at $140. Thanks for the feedback and opinions here guys.

[MSq5]

I must respectfully disagree with Chris on this one point. I have huge respect for him and Tony in all other areas.

Lucas and NOS brands have been repeatedly independently tested and do, in fact, raise octane 30 points, which is 3 octane numbers (AKI), when mixed with either 91 or 93 octane as they recommend. Both are available at most auto parts stores. I agree with Chris about most of the other brands of octane boost -- snake oil. Might raise octane one number at best and can be dangerous.

Lucas and NOS are safe for cats, but not so sure about plugs or 02 sensors. I'm due to pull my plugs, anyway, for inspection, regapping or replacement so I'll take a look. At 25,000 miles, they've never been out. I have no access, zero, to E85 or I'd be adding 3 gallons or so per tank, and can't justify running race gas for daily driving.

If my plug electrodes and ground straps are red/orange, as I suspect they are, but are staying properly gapped and are not misfiring on data logs, I will probably still run Lucas or NOS on occasion. I've only used it three or four times so far, all when heat is above 90 degrees F. That red/orange color is what the active ingredient, MMT does.

Logs I've sent to EPL were in cooler weather and were on straight 93 octane.

Call me an idiot. Maybe I am, but it's hot as hell here and I don't want my engine pulling timing (impending knock retard) when temps are so hot you can fry eggs on the sidewalk.

[bhvrdr]

I must respectfully disagree with Chris on this one point. I have huge respect for him and Tony in all other areas.

Lucas and NOS brands have been repeatedly independently tested and do, in fact, raise octane 30 points, which is 3 octane numbers (AKI), when mixed with either 91 or 93 octane as they recommend. Both are available at most auto parts stores. I agree with Chris about most of the other brands of octane boost -- snake oil. Might raise octane one number at best and can be dangerous.

Lucas and NOS are safe for cats, but not so sure about plugs or 02 sensors. I'm due to pull my plugs, anyway, for inspection, regapping or replacement so I'll take a look. At 25,000 miles, they've never been out. I have no access, zero, to E85 or I'd be adding 3 gallons or so per tank, and can't justify running race gas for daily driving.

If my plug electrodes and ground straps are red/orange, as I suspect they are, but are staying properly gapped and are not misfiring on data logs, I will probably still run Lucas or NOS on occasion. I've only used it three or four times so far, all when heat is above 90 degrees F. That red/orange color is what the active ingredient, MMT does.

Call me an idiot. Maybe I am, but it's hot as hell here and I don't want my engine pulling timing (impending knock retard) when temps are so hot you can fry eggs on the sidewalk.

Mmt works no doubt. My only caution would be for folks with a warranty of any sort. Using the mmt boosters will leave signs of it everywhere including cats and pistons so if your warranty says not to use aftermarket additives....

Mike

[MSq5]

Thanks, Mike. Understood. And, yes I'm still in warranty . . .

Let's see what the plugs look like.

[theweebabyseamus]

Ok so it sounds like the majority here agree that Lucas (which I can get in Canada) is one of the best options at $10-15 VS 5 gallons of VP 103 at $140. Thanks for the feedback and opinions here guys.

I didn’t catch it so sorry if it’s in there, but why not any e85?

[eurotic]

I didn’t catch it so sorry if it’s in there, but why not any e85?

E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada

[theweebabyseamus]

E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada

Ah, that makes sense then.

Personally I’d rather run w/m injection than mess with octane boosters.

[no_money2supe]

To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

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[davesxx01]

Torco is awesome! I carry a couple cans in the trunk when traveling just in case I cant find good gas (min 91 octane).

[Jay007]

To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

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Thanks for the heads up! I will keep this in mind to try sometime and was not aware of this station.

[MSq5]

E85 is almost non-existent in many parts of Canada

And is some parts of the US. I'm only about 30 miles or so from one of the largest petroleum refineries in the US (Chevron, Pascagoula, MS), so high quality 93 octane is plentiful and cheap, but no access to E85. I'd have to drive about an hour and a half each way just to find it.

[Tangerined]

To the OP, I noticed you're located in Calgary also. FYI, we have quality E85 (tested by our local car gurus at least once a month at exactly 85% ethanol each time) available at ONE pump. It's called G&B fuels located on 17th Ave SW, about 5 blocks west of Crowchild Tr. It's easier to purchase that than any boosters here. It's also cheaper too! Not quite as cheap as in the States, but same price as 87, so with a 80/20 mix of 94/e85, it'll still be cheaper than a full tank of 94!

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Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the info!