Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2010
    AZ Member #
    55053
    Location
    Lehigh Valley

    Fluid Damper VS ATI VS Stock

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Alright, there's been a lot of damper chatter (pun intended) lately so hopefully this thread ends of consolidating some of that. I'm currently running the stock balancer on my built BEL and want to either run the fluid or ATI damper. I'm leaning toward ATI, as I've heard of a few failures with the fluid damper and haven't been able to find much info on the ATI damper . I don't have built heads and don't plan on building them, so high rpm isn't in question here. I'm just looking to do whatever I can to keep my block in 1 piece.. Some guys say you only need an upgraded damper when running higher than stock rpm, but I feel the benefits would be present throughout the entire rev range. Any input is welcome.

    edit: I put API (company I work with) in the title instead of ATI. Please correct mods. Thanks
    Last edited by CELison; 06-12-2018 at 10:51 AM.
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
    B8 S4- GIAC Stage 2
    150cc Chinese Scooter of Doom

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 07 2011
    AZ Member #
    73609
    Location
    Home of the mighty beaver

    ive heard of only one failure with the fluidampr.. there has been more?

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2010
    AZ Member #
    55053
    Location
    Lehigh Valley

    On other platforms yes.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings FlyboyS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 06 2007
    AZ Member #
    14660
    My Garage
    2001 S4, 2004 MSM MX-5
    Location
    FL

    Quote Originally Posted by S4James View Post
    ive heard of only one failure with the fluidampr.. there has been more?
    When I contacted Fluidampr in December (6 months ago), they said they had received 1 report of a failure.
    Stock -> APR Stg1/2 -> GIAC Stg2 -> K04 -> 605 -> F4H -> K03 -> K04 -> F21MF -> TTE550 -> K04 -> TC Stg1 -> BW RS6 & TiAL 605 & FT F21v3 (On deck)
    MyAudiS4.com

  5. #5
    Established Member Three Rings ReggieNoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 17 2016
    AZ Member #
    388492
    Location
    Fl

    I took a screen shot of both, showing there design Screenshot_20180610-102044.jpegScreenshot_20180610-101948.jpeg

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Audizine mobile app

  6. #6
    Established Member Three Rings ReggieNoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 17 2016
    AZ Member #
    388492
    Location
    Fl

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyS4 View Post
    When I contacted Fluidampr in December (6 months ago), they said they had received 1 report of a failure.
    http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427079

    Five minutes of searching, I found a handful in each forums lol. Go talk to some mustang guys too.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Audizine mobile app

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings FlyboyS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 06 2007
    AZ Member #
    14660
    My Garage
    2001 S4, 2004 MSM MX-5
    Location
    FL

    Quote Originally Posted by ReggieNoble View Post
    http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427079

    Five minutes of searching, I found a handful in each forums lol. Go talk to some mustang guys too.
    I'm referring to the part that was made for our engine.
    Stock -> APR Stg1/2 -> GIAC Stg2 -> K04 -> 605 -> F4H -> K03 -> K04 -> F21MF -> TTE550 -> K04 -> TC Stg1 -> BW RS6 & TiAL 605 & FT F21v3 (On deck)
    MyAudiS4.com

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings Shhmaudi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 16 2009
    AZ Member #
    50819
    My Garage
    R1 ,stg3 S4, 09 wabbit, Porsche 996TT
    Location
    Sandy eggo

    Gonna follow this one
    For sale: I have random engine parts PM me
    Old: 1.8T Stg 3, Noggy stg 3
    Current: Silvaro B5 |1-2 collar W/Carbon Syncros 4:1 diff|AWE DTS BAR|Stern Trans|Vast Motor|034 Poly cage mount|ECS diff mount|PSS9s|Neuspeed sway/RS4 endlinks||Beetle tunes E85/91|AEM W/M|Rods|2.8 Heads/Cams|Ported intake mani|TTV FW|Custom CM B7 RS4 6 puck clutch|SRM K24's/Bi Pipes/Dps/SMIC|custom 3.5in|Fsi coilpacks|17z|Ecodes|

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 07 2011
    AZ Member #
    73609
    Location
    Home of the mighty beaver

    I looked over that thread you posted from the ls1gto page... The guy was hacking at keyways, and his crank cracked.... I dont think he can pin this on fluidampr.... Not saying there are no failures out there, but that example was a poor one.

  10. #10
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    Hi Folks,

    My name is Ivan and I work for Fluidampr. I am happy to answer any questions you may have and hopefully put to rest any false claims about our product. I have been through this on many forums, including the one below which is probably the most detailed response I have put together and is much more accurate than a one off failure of an aluminum damper that had a keyway cut into causing a stress fracture of the material 7 years ago.

    https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...ancer-3187031/

    Please feel to reach out to me directly at ivan@fluidampr.com as there may be lag time messaging through the forum (I just do not get a chance to check them all the time as I am active with 50+ forums).

    -Ivan

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 07 2011
    AZ Member #
    73609
    Location
    Home of the mighty beaver

    Thanks for coming in...
    What was the root cause of the single failure we noted on our platform?
    What changes did the redesign address?
    Should owners (me) of the original design be concerned?
    What is your position on replacing the old design with the new if warranted?

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2010
    AZ Member #
    55053
    Location
    Lehigh Valley

    Thanks for chiming in Ivan. In addition to the questions above ^, if I order a fluidamper, how do I know for sure I'm getting version 2?
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
    B8 S4- GIAC Stage 2
    150cc Chinese Scooter of Doom

  13. #13
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    S4James,

    [S4James] What was the root cause of the single failure we noted on our platform?

    [Ivan] We never 100% determined the root cause, however, one of our dealers who sold the customer the damper stated that it ended up being issues due to some other factor. It is important to add, that this was the one and only failure with this particular application. We now have hundreds of dampers for this application in the field with no other instance.

    [S4James] What changes did the redesign address?

    [Ivan] The change was added following the failure as we identified a way to increase structural integrity of the mounting flange area, at the time not knowing if this was an issue. At design, we do all we can to emulate the design of the OEM unit while providing increased vibration control. We do not like to add weight, unless it is inertia mass (controls harmonics), but in this case it was minimal added weight and we decided that it was best to change mounting flange thickness to add strength when interfacing the crankshaft regardless of whether the failure was related.

    [S4James] Should owners (me) of the original design be concerned?

    [Ivan] Absolutely not. Again, we have hundreds of units in the field prior to the revision and there has been no other known issue(s). Ultimately, it was determined by a 3rd party that there were other issues with this engine not related to Fluidampr suggesting that the engine assembly was not properly balanced (before installation of Fluidampr) which led to a host of other issues not just a damper that came loose (which also could have been installation error - but we did not perform the install and the damper had heavy damage from impact, therefore, we had no sure way to tell if installation error was the cause).

    What is your position on replacing the old design with the new if warranted?

    [Ivan] This is not necessary for reasons above.

    I will also add that we do our best to design dampers to far exceed engine protection, performance and life vs. that of an OEM cheap elastomeric unit. It is important to note that in performance motorsports, we (engine builders/performance enthusiasts, etc.) are constantly pushing new power levels to just get a 'little more'. Enough power and eventually parts will fail, hence the reason many manufacturers will not even warranty any part used for racing/performance purposes. We are a family owned 100% made in the U.S.A. product and company. We take great pride in quality and customer service. If an issue arises we do our best to be as transparent as possible.

  14. #14
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    CELison,

    We have not had any of the old revision in well over 9 months. At the time of redesign, I remember our distribution outlets being sold out of the old revision. I do not foresee any problem with receiving the new version. And again, the old version will not cause any issue either.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings CELison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2010
    AZ Member #
    55053
    Location
    Lehigh Valley

    Cool. Thanks Ivan. So I'll paypal you $300 and you'll send me one? Great! But really, this is good information. With the amount of 2.7s that are being built now, the market for products like this I would think will only grow. If this helps protect my motor from eating itself then I'm for it. I would assume that engine imbalance is a bigger issue at high RPM (over 7200) than at lower RPM (under 7200). Can you speak on what your findings are of how the harmonics change while climbing in RPM? Obviously all vibrations are detrimental, but does it really start to be a major issue as you climb up high in rpm?
    B5 S4- K24s, built bottom end, E85
    B8 S4- GIAC Stage 2
    150cc Chinese Scooter of Doom

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 07 2011
    AZ Member #
    73609
    Location
    Home of the mighty beaver

    Thanks Ivan. Nothing you said surprises me, but it was nice to hear it from the horses mouth.

  17. #17
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    You are both very welcome.

    CELison, you will be best purchasing from one of our distribution outlets. Being the manufacturer, we set a MSRP which in almost all cases can be sourced at a better price through online distribution as they will offer a lesser price, run a sale, offer free shipping incentives, etc.

    Thank you and again, do not hesitate to reach out directly if there is anything I can ever help with.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings Yuppie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 14 2005
    AZ Member #
    5283
    My Garage
    S4 Sedan, S4 Avant, IS300 SportCross Wagon, B7 A4 S-Line Cab, Camry
    Location
    Houston, TX/ Richmond, VA

    Ivan,

    Can you provide pictures of the gen 1 and gen 2. Specifically of the area that was revised.

    Thank you
    2001 S4 Silver Sedan Built 2.7 Tial 770-Current
    2001.5 S4 Silver Avant Stage 3-Current
    2001.5 S4 Casablanca Sedan Stage 3-Current
    2002 S4 Pearl White Avant Stock--SOLD
    2000 S4 Nogaro Sedan EPL Stage III--SOLD
    2000 S4 Brilliant Black Sedan MTM Stage III--SOLD
    2001.5 Nogaro Sedan JFonz Tune Franken F21s--SOLD
    2001.5 Nogaro Sedan AWE Stage III--SOLD
    2001.5 Nogaro Sedan AWE Stage III--SOLD
    2001 Brilliant Black Sedan S4-K04/Rs6 Hybrid custom tuned Vast--SOLD

  19. #19
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    Yuppie,

    It would be hard to show this in an image as it is a flat surface that the thickness was changed. Basically the mounting area where the bolts go through to mount to the crankshaft was increased by a little more than 1/8".

    -Ivan

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Sep 07 2012
    AZ Member #
    100064
    Location
    Tampa, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by inc4203 View Post
    Yuppie,

    It would be hard to show this in an image as it is a flat surface that the thickness was changed. Basically the mounting area where the bolts go through to mount to the crankshaft was increased by a little more than 1/8".

    -Ivan
    So what was the before and after thickness of the mounting area? Just curious as I purchased one of your dampers recently and have yet to install it. Thanks

  21. #21
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 30 2014
    AZ Member #
    286150
    Location
    Buffalo, NY

    The original OEM design was about .125" and is now .290" on the latest revision. And again, there is no worry with either thickness. I have received no other reports of the OEM thickness failing with either the OEM unit or our original design with OEM thickness.
    Last edited by inc4203; 06-15-2018 at 05:24 AM.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Three Rings ElementR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 23 2013
    AZ Member #
    131534
    My Garage
    '07 Volvo S60R EFR 7163 Turbo, '93 Mustang Cobra Twin Turbo 347cid, '01 B5 S4 Tial 605's
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, MI

    FWIW - I've run Fluidampers on my mustangs over the years and never had any issues... lots of other mustang owners do as well. No, I'm not getting paid to say this, just my 2 cents.
    2001 Silver/Black S4, Built engine (RPM rods, ARP hardware, Mahle pistons, Supertech valvetrain, etc), Tial 605's @25psi on 93 oct, JHM FMIC, JHM full trans rebuilt/upgrade, 3" SS dp + CBE, Vast intake + bipipes + tune, ST Coilovers, Hotchkis Swaybars, RS4 wheels and interior goodies.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2018 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.