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  1. #1
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Bose Front Speaker Impedance

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    Hey guys,

    After having finished up my sound dampening, amplifier and subwoofer installation, I'm thinking about the portion of the Bose system in our C7 A6s that drives me crazy. The front center and door midrange speakers are just to "bright" for my taste. Same goes for the tweeters; and, I was thinking about another experiment. Specifically, I may swap the center midrange (3.5" or 4") and dash mounted (1.5") tweeters to see if I can soften the front "stage" just a bit without buying another amp, sound processor, door 3-way speakers and a center.

    Does anyone know what the ohm rating is on the center channel?

    What about ohm rating for the dash tweeters?

    Most everything aftermarket is 4ohm, but Bose is weird..


    Thanks for your comments!

  2. #2
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWebb_C7_Comp View Post
    Hey guys,

    After having finished up my sound dampening, amplifier and subwoofer installation, I'm thinking about the portion of the Bose system in our C7 A6s that drives me crazy. The front center and door midrange speakers are just to "bright" for my taste. Same goes for the tweeters; and, I was thinking about another experiment. Specifically, I may swap the center midrange (3.5" or 4") and dash mounted (1.5") tweeters to see if I can soften the front "stage" just a bit without buying another amp, sound processor, door 3-way speakers and a center.

    Does anyone know what the ohm rating is on the center channel?

    What about ohm rating for the dash tweeters?

    Most everything aftermarket is 4ohm, but Bose is weird..


    Thanks for your comments!
    I don't the answers to your questions, but am very interested to find out- I'll see if anything is listed on any of my old speakers if I can find them. I'm also interested to see what solution you come up with
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    If they are not blown, simply disconnect them and use a DMM to read the impedance. Usually you round up. Like a 4 ohm speaker normally reads 3.4-3.9. Some as low as 3.2. Your location above sea level and other factors will change the readings a little. I can go into more depth if you'd like.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    The speakers and amp are paired together. The amp does EQ and crossovers that you have no control over.
    In order to get ANY real return on adding new speakers, you need to at least get a line output converter (or go optical and totally bypass the amp) and a separate amp to power the speakers. Bose is pretty much the worst to deal with in these aspects, and that's well known to those that have been doing it for a while.

    JW - I admire your adventurous spirit, but for this one - - just don't (get only different speakers). It's a waste of time and money.

    Decide if you want to upgrade your stereo. If you do - - buy one or more aftermarket amps and speakers (and decide if you want to do active/passive, 2-way/3-way, center channel or no, etc.). I'm begging you on this one :)

    (And here you go: my old tweeters and door speakers measure 3-3.5 ohm.)
    2013 Addict::S6 (Build) // UNITED MOTORSPORT by AMD | Milltek DP's and Valvesonic exhaust | 200 CPSI custom cats | AWE intake | Arc's, Helix and Morel's for sound
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  5. #5
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Per View Post
    The speakers and amp are paired together. The amp does EQ and crossovers that you have no control over.
    In order to get ANY real return on adding new speakers, you need to at least get a line output converter (or go optical and totally bypass the amp) and a separate amp to power the speakers. Bose is pretty much the worst to deal with in these aspects, and that's well known to those that have been doing it for a while.

    JW - I admire your adventurous spirit, but for this one - - just don't (get only different speakers). It's a waste of time and money.

    Decide if you want to upgrade your stereo. If you do - - buy one or more aftermarket amps and speakers (and decide if you want to do active/passive, 2-way/3-way, center channel or no, etc.). I'm begging you on this one :)

    (And here you go: my old tweeters and door speakers measure 3-3.5 ohm.)
    Great comments; well argued and comical. The biggest remaining issue I have is the center channel. Last night, I put a 2" square piece of padding between it and the grill, just to see if that takes the edge off it. Clearly, that is for experiment ONLY. I may replace that center with another unit that has a more mellow sound.

    I hear you on the doors/tweets. It seems I can/should add 1 amp and at least do the doors/tweets with new hardware.

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    @s4per. I def don't want to start any kind of argument, but I respectfully disagree with you on some points. I'm just sharing my opinion and not discrediting you or anyone else's thoughts, experience, and knowledge. I do agree with you that the Bose system was designed and engineered as a "system" with those speakers, amps, dsp and eq settings, ect. However, you if you just changed speakers you most certainly can change the sound. Whether or not its the change you are looking for is subjective to the listener. Now with out a lot of audio analyzing equipment, and knowledge of that equipment, and sound in general, yes it's a stab in the dark whether or not said new speakers will make the changes the listener is looking for. Would the best course of action be to replace the amps, speakers, and add a DSP, absolutely. But spending thousands of dollars in quality equipment and quality installation (which is more important than equipment), swapping some speakers for a few $ seems to be a little more reasonable, especially because the original poster only wants to soften the highs. On top of all of that, in this particular case, the owner can simply reinstall the Bose speakers if the replacements do not sound they way he wants them too. The new speakers, assuming he gets relatively the correct impedance, will not do any damage to the rest of the system, only change the sound, which is what he is after. Now they can def sound worse but again that's to be determined by him. Again I'm just debating not arguing. I know things can be taken out of context quite easily through printed word. It's definitely hard to convey thoughts for me in this format.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    Many have replaced the oem sub, and in their opinion, loved the new response from the aftermarket sub. Does that mean they are getting the peak performance out the system, sub, and or amplifier? Probably not. But to them, they achieved the goal of getting a better response compared to the oem sub. Again the perceived "better" response is subjective to them. But that's the beauty of sound. It's each one's own personal taste. On the flip side, there is a risk of doing damage to the new speaker and or oem equipment because of this change. What that percentage is, is determined by an infinite amount of variables such as, the volume they listen to the system at, the quality of the recording (ie CD, mp3, whatever), the parameters of the replacement speaker, and so on. Can it be a waste of time and money, you bet. But I feel, the original poster can definitely achieve what he is after by simply changing the speakers without doing anything else.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    @Snax. No worries, all good :) Everyone should voice their opinion, I take zero exception to your disagreeing with my points, and I can see the value in the points you make. To each their own. I just think turning down the treble is likely to get you as much of a result as buying new speakers to pair with the Bose amp (yes, slightly exaggerated, but..), and having watched the journey that JW is on via a number of other posts, I'm putting my money on him going the distance in terms of full upgrade and think it wiser to make that decision now (or not) and then focus on buying the right equipment for the desired end state vs potentially buying some speakers now that may only suit this particular configuration.

    Rock on!
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  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    @s4per. When you put it like that, I agree with you a 100%. I think it can exceptionally challenging to find the balance of tweaking and rebuilding.

  10. #10
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    OP here,

    First, let me thank you all for the thoughts and comments. I personally take them in the spirit of collaboration. As for the sub installation, for me, it's been a tremendous change. Instead of a typical LOC and AMP, I used a newer AudioControl AMP with built in LOC. It's one box, one power, one ground, a pair of line-in and a pair of speaker out; it's super simple. I've played with crossover and level as well as the Bose treble, bass, surround and fader settings (by input type) such that I feel I have the bass dialed in pretty well. So, in my case, I kept my trunk intact, and got the bass I was looking for. Now, I want to cut a bit out of the highs. I don't know if it's Bose speaker choice, cross-over, or EQ. But, a CHEAP experiment on the center MAY NOT be a bad idea. Next step would be to have the car fully hooked-up and tested to see what it's currently doing, and then to build a plan. If I go the later route, it's not likely to be inexpensive. By the time you select speakers, amp(s) and DSP, I could well be approaching the cost of the stupid B&O option I didn't select because I expected I could have a better solution for less.

    Currently considering (1) swapping out center only to see if I'm satisfied, (2) jumping in with two feet (replacing 6", 4" doors, 1.5" dash and 4" dash center along with necessary electronics, deadening materials and installation....

    I'll keep you all posted. By the way, if you haven't seen the pictured of my sub installation, check them out. It's pretty impressive what a talented shop can do with a properly motivated, if somewhat crazy client. In the end, I gave up VERY little trunk space and I think my trunk - with the sub - looks better than it does stock. One of my neighbors watched as I messed with the car and when it was done said "wait, which panel is new versus stock....?"

    Now, I'm on to curbing the highs that are to "shrill" for my taste in music.

    Anyone compare Audio Frog, Focal and Morel..? those are my top contenders if I go full on replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snax View Post
    Many have replaced the oem sub, and in their opinion, loved the new response from the aftermarket sub. Does that mean they are getting the peak performance out the system, sub, and or amplifier? Probably not. But to them, they achieved the goal of getting a better response compared to the oem sub. Again the perceived "better" response is subjective to them. But that's the beauty of sound. It's each one's own personal taste. On the flip side, there is a risk of doing damage to the new speaker and or oem equipment because of this change. What that percentage is, is determined by an infinite amount of variables such as, the volume they listen to the system at, the quality of the recording (ie CD, mp3, whatever), the parameters of the replacement speaker, and so on. Can it be a waste of time and money, you bet. But I feel, the original poster can definitely achieve what he is after by simply changing the speakers without doing anything else.
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings quattroism25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWebb_C7_Comp View Post
    OP here,


    I'll keep you all posted. By the way, if you haven't seen the pictured of my sub installation, check them out. It's pretty impressive what a talented shop can do with a properly motivated, if somewhat crazy client. In the end, I gave up VERY little trunk space and I think my trunk - with the sub - looks better than it does stock. One of my neighbors watched as I messed with the car and when it was done said "wait, which panel is new versus stock....?"
    Where the pictures of your sub build?

    The stock bose is so disappointing. Even my old B6 S4 sounds better. The bass is flat and muddy, while the highs are just irritating.

    I have very little knowledge of car audio. How can I get that clarity at all levels?
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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    Quattro: short answer = replace whole system

    JWebb - try out the tweeters first. No idea how they mix the center channel but when done right, you barely know it's even there; hence - try the tweeters as you're more likely to hear a difference.


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    2013 Addict::S6 (Build) // UNITED MOTORSPORT by AMD | Milltek DP's and Valvesonic exhaust | 200 CPSI custom cats | AWE intake | Arc's, Helix and Morel's for sound
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  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    @JWebb very nice and clean. I do have the B&O system and although not bad def not worth the 6k option. However I do love the tweeters motorizing up out of the dash every time I start the car. I plan on doing something in the deck later this summer myself. I blew the oem sub a month or so ago. It never had enough output for me, plus it had no real bottom end. If I can find the time I wanna do a IB setup with something like (3) 10-12's or maybe (2) 15's if I can find something shallow enough. As they say "there is no replacement for displacement". That holds true especially goin IB. I was installer for about 16 years. Things were booming in the mid to late 90's. I have a stash of some old school US Amps and OZ Audio stuff. I think I also have some MTX thunder subs too. Now if I can only find the time. That always seems to be the hang up.

  14. #14
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    I dragged one of the final job here. posted above. I've got about 15 total at various stages. let me know if you want to see anything specific..

    EDIT: added a few here.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by JWebb_C7_Comp; 06-11-2018 at 05:56 AM.

  15. #15
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Given this is old hat for you, it should be no problem to get that car bumping. I wrestled with finding a THIN 10" to fit into stock hole (with little dremel work on my part). I wanted to keep the interior portion of the deck completely stock, so I had to get a slim enough sub to fit under the Bose mount bracket that attached to both the metal deck and the interior grill frame, etc.. AND, I didn't want to use much trunk space; I have kids and have sports gear and other stuff in the trunk all the time. In the end, I chose the JL 10TW1. I test fit and braced it; the real installers did final bracing, rerouting of wires, more sound deadening and, as you can see, a custom fiberglassed and carpeted beauty panel (complete with stock light) to finish off the look.

    Happy with results for my car, but with two 12" in a real IB set-up, you'll be light years ahead of where mine is. Check-out SUBTERFUSE S6 install. It's super impressive and he's got an incredible IB wall in his. That may give you an idea or two to start with. Please keep us posted.

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings Snax's Avatar
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    I'll check that out for sure. Yeah just getting ideas right not. Something simple and close to factory looking. I do need to make sure my seats still fold down for my hockey sticks. Hopefully I'll get started before summer is over. I have a side project taking all my spare time. But thanks for the pics. Would like to see the rest of them. Thanks!!

  17. #17
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    @OlyS6
    @S4Per

    Purely as a hypothetical exercise, of course, if I were to ditch the FANTASTIC AudioControl LOC/AMP combination unit i just installed in favor of the start to a full-on Bose by-pass, would I need (A) something to take optical out of the Bose (Mo-Bridge if supported, NavTV like OlyS6 used) or (B) a combination of devices that take line-out such as JL Fix, (C) digital processor to handle as many as 12 channels (1 dash, 3x2, for the front, 2x2 for rear, 1 sub, ignored "rear surround"), (D) likely 2 power amps, and (E) which ever speakers I want....

    Trying to get my mind around the potential scope of that project and whether, if I jump, whether I can make use of the AC 1.3000 I just got or I should be looking to replace it while still within in 60 period with Crutchfield with something I'll definitely need down the road.

    If I go this route, I'd want EQ, HI/LOW pass, Time and separate level control on everything such that someone who knows how to manage this stuff could dial my car in for my taste and all I'd need to do would be to select music and turn up (or down) the volume on my steering wheel.

  18. #18
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    Don't see why you'd need to ditch the JL unit, although I'm not familiar as to whether you can feed it low level input or not.

    You CAN simply get a DSP that takes high level inputs form your BOSE amp and get excellent results. You'd need to splice into all your speaker OUTs from your amp and deliver them to the high level inputs of your DSP. You can then then do whatever you want with the signals in the DSP (set your frequency crossovers, timing, levels via 30 band EQ, etc...), and then out to your amplifiers.

    To remove the Bose amp altogether you will NEED the navtv zen-v box, since your car has a MOST 150 digital fiberoptic system. (True for all Audis 2016 and later). The Mobridge will only work with MY15 and earlier, as these vehicles have a MOST25 fiberoptic system (completely different ways of verifying communication and security)
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  19. #19
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Bose >> several line level out >> DSP>> multiple amps >> speakers of choice

    Seems I could get a DSP and a 6 to 8 channel amp to replace my existing mono amp/LOC (AC 1.300) and I'd be on my way when I select speakers up front.

    or

    Bose >> FIBER out >> NavTV >> DSP>> multiple amps >> speakers of choice

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Great thread, I detest the Bose and am planning a winter project to get rid of the speakers and bypass the Bose amp.

    Does anyone have instructions on how to get to the tweeters and centre speaker in the dash?
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  21. #21
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavpsire View Post
    Great thread, I detest the Bose and am planning a winter project to get rid of the speakers and bypass the Bose amp.

    Does anyone have instructions on how to get to the tweeters and centre speaker in the dash?
    Super easy- the speaker grilles all pop out with a small pry tool or small screwdriver, and the speakers up front are held in with 2 small hex bolts each. The wires are all color coded for each speaker, so it is then easy to identify them as they go into the Bose amp, so that you can identify which is which.
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  22. #22
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWebb_C7_Comp View Post
    Bose >> several line level out >> DSP>> multiple amps >> speakers of choice

    Seems I could get a DSP and a 6 to 8 channel amp to replace my existing mono amp/LOC (AC 1.300) and I'd be on my way when I select speakers up front.

    or

    Bose >> FIBER out >> NavTV >> DSP>> multiple amps >> speakers of choice
    Correct- although expensive, I went with the navtv box simply so I could have a pure digital signal up until the aftermarket amplifiers. You can get great sound having the bose amp line outs going to a DSP, (I did this for over a year until the navtv box became available), but it bothered me that I was going digital-analog-digital-analog. That's just me though, and up to you if you think $1300 for the navtv box is worth it. I'm really happy with it, and there are no other alternatives on the market yet for MY2016 and later VAG vehicles.
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  23. #23
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlyS6 View Post
    Correct- although expensive, I went with the navtv box simply so I could have a pure digital signal up until the aftermarket amplifiers. You can get great sound having the bose amp line outs going to a DSP, (I did this for over a year until the navtv box became available), but it bothered me that I was going digital-analog-digital-analog. That's just me though, and up to you if you think $1300 for the navtv box is worth it. I'm really happy with it, and there are no other alternatives on the market yet for MY2016 and later VAG vehicles.
    I appreciate the OCD on the pure digital signal... That said, if I go down this road, I may go Bose >> line out >> DSP >> AMPs.

    If you know, can I generally do the following for channels:

    (1) Front Mid-Bass (L/R)
    (2) Front Mid-Range (L/R)
    (3) Front Tweeers (L/R)
    (4) Rear fill -- using passive cross over on door
    (5) Front "Center" full range
    (6) Subwoofer?


    If so, an Audio Control DM 608 would do nicely. I think I can get: flattening of BOSE output, time alignment, EQ, level control, and cross-over (both hi and low) out of that device. They've got an amplified version of that coming out soon too!! I only lean in that direction because the only hardware I have used even remotely recently is theirs and I'm somewhat comfortable with it. Plus, you can use windows, android and iOS to control it.... Seems the swiss army knife of DSPs.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    What channels are you referring to there? Input to DSP?
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    -----------------------------------------
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  25. #25
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Yes; I've seen a few DSPs there are "8 channel" an a few that are "6 channel." If I can take all speakers into a 6 channel until, do DSP, then do AMP, then send out, seems I'd be good with ONE DSP and ONE more amplifier.

  26. #26
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    Depends on how you use your channels. One way to 'conserve' them is to use passive crossovers for your three-ways up front, so that the front left 3 way is channel 1 and the front right 3 way is channel 2. If you did the same for the rears, then you could have the rear doors as channels 4 and 5, the sub as channel 6, and your front center as channel 7. What really matters is the number of channels 'out', because you can always copy signals internally and send them to other channels. (For instance, I'm using one full range frequency stereo signal into my DSP, but then copying that full signal to every channel to be processed differently).

    The other approach is to actively control everything, at the expense of using more channels. For instance, my tweeters are channels 1 and 2, my front door mid-range speakers are 3-4, and my front door woofers are 5-6. My rear doors have passive crossovers in them and are channels 7-8. My subwoofer is channels 9-10 (redundant). I don't use the front center currently. I still have some unused outputs on one of my multi-channel amplifiers. Speaking of multi-channel amplifiers, make sure each channel you use has the correct wattage and resistance for each speaker. I've not done much research on this, as I quickly landed on JL HD multichannel amps, but many people use on high powered amp for their sub, and then a multichannel (or more than one multichannel) amp to run all their other speakers. There may very well be other amplifiers out there that have more than 4 or 5 channels, but I'd suggest researching this carefully. I think you could get away with a 5 channel amp (one high powered channel for your sub) and one channel for each door. If you want to actively control everything, you may very well need more than on multi-channel amplifier.

    Yet another approach to somewhat simplify things is to use 2 way coaxials upfront, so that the woofers control everything that the tweeters don't- this way your tweeters could be channels 1 and 2, your front woofers 3-4, and you have multiple channels left to mess with other things.

    It is SUPER important to note that the LEFT and RIGHT speakers are each on separate channels, and that your tuner should tune the left side of the car separately from the right side of the car. This is the best way to get a central 'image', and then the appropriate left and right sounds across your soundstage.

    Finally, most purists would recommend that you don't run speakers in your rear doors at all, as they take your attention away from the front sound stage, 'shrinking' the overall 'depth' of your soundstage (with the ultimate goal of the singer's voice being in the center of your soundstage, and various instuments 'appear' to be behind the singer from left to right, as though you're sitting in the front row of a concert, with the instruments seemingly somewhere on the hood of your car.)
    A trick that can be used to make things sound bigger is to only use the rear door woofers, and to give them a large time delay (like 20ms), which makes the 'room' you're sitting in sound bigger than it is.

    Of course factors to consider are cost, time you want to spend tuning (with an all active system taking more time, since you can tweak every single speaker), and whether you want to use all factory locations or not.

    You can get excellent sound quality by simply placing a DSP just after your factory amp, and do just fine. My OCD-ness was going nuts over it, especially because the wiring alone looked like a rat's nest.
    Last edited by OlyS6; 06-13-2018 at 03:00 PM.
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlyS6 View Post
    Depends on how you use your channels. One way to 'conserve' them is to use passive crossovers for your three-ways up front, so that the front left 3 way is channel 1 and the front right 3 way is channel 2. If you did the same for the rears, then you could have the rear doors as channels 4 and 5, the sub as channel 6, and your front center as channel 7. What really matters is the number of channels 'out', because you can always copy signals internally and send them to other channels. (For instance, I'm using one full range frequency stereo signal into my DSP, but then copying that full signal to every channel to be processed differently).

    The other approach is to actively control everything, at the expense of using more channels. For instance, my tweeters are channels 1 and 2, my front door mid-range speakers are 3-4, and my front door woofers are 5-6. My rear doors have passive crossovers in them and are channels 7-8. My subwoofer is channels 9-10 (redundant). I don't use the front center currently. I still have some unused outputs on one of my multi-channel amplifiers. Speaking of multi-channel amplifiers, make sure each channel you use has the correct wattage and resistance for each speaker. I've not done much research on this, as I quickly landed on JL HD multichannel amps, but many people use on high powered amp for their sub, and then a multichannel (or more than one multichannel) amp to run all their other speakers. There may very well be other amplifiers out there that have more than 4 or 5 channels, but I'd suggest researching this carefully. I think you could get away with a 5 channel amp (one high powered channel for your sub) and one channel for each door. If you want to actively control everything, you may very well need more than on multi-channel amplifier.

    Yet another approach to somewhat simplify things is to use 2 way coaxials upfront, so that the woofers control everything that the tweeters don't- this way your tweeters could be channels 1 and 2, your front woofers 3-4, and you have multiple channels left to mess with other things.

    It is SUPER important to note that the LEFT and RIGHT speakers are each on separate channels, and that your tuner should tune the left side of the car separately from the right side of the car. This is the best way to get a central 'image', and then the appropriate left and right sounds across your soundstage.

    Finally, most purists would recommend that you don't run speakers in your rear doors at all, as they take your attention away from the front sound stage, 'shrinking' the overall 'depth' of your soundstage (with the ultimate goal of the singer's voice being in the center of your soundstage, and various instuments 'appear' to be behind the singer from left to right, as though you're sitting in the front row of a concert, with the instruments seemingly somewhere on the hood of your car.)
    A trick that can be used to make things sound bigger is to only use the rear door woofers, and to give them a large time delay (like 20ms), which makes the 'room' you're sitting in sound bigger than it is.

    Of course factors to consider are cost, time you want to spend tuning (with an all active system taking more time, since you can tweak every single speaker), and whether you want to use all factory locations or not.

    You can get excellent sound quality by simply placing a DSP just after your factory amp, and do just fine. My OCD-ness was going nuts over it, especially because the wiring alone looked like a rat's nest.
    Great info, Andre!

    To double down on a couple of things:
    1. DSP after the factory amp and you'll get results that the layman would likely have a hard time to distinguish from a signal that stays straight digital (i.e. an easy place to be easier on the wallet)
    2. Rear fill: is it important to you to have speakers in the back for other passengers? I ask that question very specifically as I'm one of those that firmly believes that rear fill is not worth the investment and has the potential to make things harder / 'worse' vs just having a front stage. I've upgraded the audio system in my last 3 cars (all Audi's :) ) and have not included rear fill in any of them. I don't miss it one bit. So, my recommendation here: skip it unless your family would write you off if you didn't ;) If they wouldn't - then you're also set with 8 output channels on your DSP (3 each side for tweet/mid/woofer, 1 for sub, 1 for center channel)
    3. On center channel again: that should be your lowest priority. You can have an awesome sounding system without it.
    4. As mentioned by Andre, and as I elude to in point 2 here: if you're going this far, I'd highly recommend separate out channels for each speaker. See here for how that all comes together in my car (and note how the center channel pushed me over the edge in terms of needing another amp). I run all Arc Audio amps.




    Finally - it can be intimidating to tune your first system by yourself, and you can spend a lot of time and money on all of the other pieces and come out with something sounding crappy if you can't get the tune right. You could consider having a shop spend 3-5 hours to give you a base tune, something that you'd be very happy with even long term. Then, you can take all the time in the world to develop your own tune, or build off of that one, while still being able to switch back to the one the shop did for when you're not working on getting yours great and just want to enjoy the system. That's what I did with this last one and I'm very happy with that decision.
    2013 Addict::S6 (Build) // UNITED MOTORSPORT by AMD | Milltek DP's and Valvesonic exhaust | 200 CPSI custom cats | AWE intake | Arc's, Helix and Morel's for sound
    2018 Q7 3.0T Prestige | Glacier White Metallic | Titanium Black Optic | Adaptive chassis | Drivers Assistance | Tow | Cold Weather
    -----------------------------------------
    Never forgotten:
    2008 Addict::RS4 (Build)
    2002 S4 Stage 3 Tip

  28. #28
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Per View Post
    Great info, Andre!

    To double down on a couple of things:
    1. DSP after the factory amp and you'll get results that the layman would likely have a hard time to distinguish from a signal that stays straight digital (i.e. an easy place to be easier on the wallet)
    2. Rear fill: is it important to you to have speakers in the back for other passengers? I ask that question very specifically as I'm one of those that firmly believes that rear fill is not worth the investment and has the potential to make things harder / 'worse' vs just having a front stage. I've upgraded the audio system in my last 3 cars (all Audi's :) ) and have not included rear fill in any of them. I don't miss it one bit. So, my recommendation here: skip it unless your family would write you off if you didn't ;) If they wouldn't - then you're also set with 8 output channels on your DSP (3 each side for tweet/mid/woofer, 1 for sub, 1 for center channel)
    3. On center channel again: that should be your lowest priority. You can have an awesome sounding system without it.
    4. As mentioned by Andre, and as I elude to in point 2 here: if you're going this far, I'd highly recommend separate out channels for each speaker. See here for how that all comes together in my car (and note how the center channel pushed me over the edge in terms of needing another amp). I run all Arc Audio amps.




    Finally - it can be intimidating to tune your first system by yourself, and you can spend a lot of time and money on all of the other pieces and come out with something sounding crappy if you can't get the tune right. You could consider having a shop spend 3-5 hours to give you a base tune, something that you'd be very happy with even long term. Then, you can take all the time in the world to develop your own tune, or build off of that one, while still being able to switch back to the one the shop did for when you're not working on getting yours great and just want to enjoy the system. That's what I did with this last one and I'm very happy with that decision.

    Many, many thanks guys!

    I think I'm finally getting this into perspective. And, it's clear to me that I want control of my speakers and sub in a more detailed manner than I have now. I'd really like to move that right onto the dash with time delay, etc... Hence, I think a DSP is in my future. Also, based on what I'm reading here, I'll shoot to make each driver a separate output of the DSP/separate input to an AMP. Ideally, I'd have separate channels for front tweeters (2), front mid (2), front mid bass (2), driver rear door (1), passenger rear door (1), Sub (1), and front center (1). By my count, I'd need a total of 10 outputs from a DSP, assuming I ignore the rear surrounds in the rear deck, which I'll most likely do.

    If I do this in phases, I think can first get a 10 channel (output) DSP and one 6 (or 8) channel output amp to start. That way, I can first get full control the front tweets, front doors and subwoofer all together, making time delay meaningful. Then, I can fiddle with (perhaps) another amp and add in rear fill as well as the center dash if/when I decide to.

    As for programming, I'm absolutely going to have the shop who finished-up my subwoofer install get this car dialed in (at least at first) and then I'll tweak if I have something specific I "need."

    Now that I have half a plan, I'll start looking at gear and talk with the installers. Speaker choices are a whole other dilemma. MY initial list to consider include Focal, Morel and Audio Frog. Between those, I'm sure I can find very solid performance and a tweeter the suit my old a^$ ears.

  29. #29
    Established Member Four Rings OlyS6's Avatar
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    All great choices, so you won't go wrong with any of them. There are various levels within those brands that can range from about $1000 to about $5000 for a set of 3 way speakers for both sides. I chose the Focal KX3- while expensive, sort of 'middle of the road' for high end speakers.
    Also of note, there are some newer multichannel amps out there- I'm eyeing the Focal 6 channel amp that has 150 watts per channel, which would meet the power requirements for all 6 of my front speakers. My current JL HD900/5 is delivering 4 channels of 100 watts each and 500 watts to the sub.
    I think a 10 channel 'OUT' DSP gives you the most flexibility you can find right now. I'm not aware of any with more channels than that, but would love to learn about it if there are any out there.
    2016 S6, mythos black, RS7 turbos, MRC inlets |AWE touring exhaust| APR downpipes| Eventuri intake| AMS cooler| Eurocode sways, end-links, and AK | Audi CCB| HRE P103, 20x10 | RS6 grille| Neidfaktor CF mirrors, diffuser, and steering wheel| Blackvue dashcams| Escort Max CI 360 | RS6 LED headlights |Sound: Navtv Zen-v, Audiocontrol DM-810 DSP, JL HD900/5 driving JL10W3 sub and Focal KX3 up front. Rear; JL HD600/4 driving Focal KX2.

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4Per's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlyS6 View Post
    I'm not aware of any with more channels than that, but would love to learn about it if there are any out there.
    The new Alpine PXE-0850S has 12 outputs, but not a lot of data on it yet. Doesn't seem to be positioned above the flagship PXA-H800 either.
    @JWebb - - go listen to speakers, as many as you can. Every install shop has / should have a display area where you can A/B speakers all day long. Pick the ones that sound the best to you!
    2013 Addict::S6 (Build) // UNITED MOTORSPORT by AMD | Milltek DP's and Valvesonic exhaust | 200 CPSI custom cats | AWE intake | Arc's, Helix and Morel's for sound
    2018 Q7 3.0T Prestige | Glacier White Metallic | Titanium Black Optic | Adaptive chassis | Drivers Assistance | Tow | Cold Weather
    -----------------------------------------
    Never forgotten:
    2008 Addict::RS4 (Build)
    2002 S4 Stage 3 Tip

  31. #31
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    Thanks OlyS6. Seems you're changing parts so fast on your car that I'll be able to pick-up the spares faster than I can get an order into Crutchfield.. The 10 channel DSP you have and the one S4Per identified both look like pretty good options.

    I could even use the Pioneer unit S4Per identified before swapping speakers because it would send 25 Watts RMS to the stock Bose speakers if I wanted it to. Super tempting.

  32. #32
    Established Member Three Rings JWebb_C7_Comp's Avatar
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    S4Per - your comment about going the distance in post #8 was spot on!



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