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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Cracked Fuel Pump???

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    I just took my 08 S5 in for the catalytic converter recall, and had my coils and plugs changed while there. After that work (an ordeal I'll detail in another thread, I'm driving home from the shop and the CEL pops on. I took it to get a diagnostic from a local parts store and the code on the reader was for a cylinder 2 misfire. I went home, parked my car in my garage, and woke up to gas fumes throughout my house, and gas on the floor of my garage. I took it back to the shop, and the tech diagnosed it as a cracked fuel pump that was giving out misfire codes for cylinders 2&4. I was told by the service manager that this is a common thing in these cars. Anybody else experience this? The cost to fix this is just over $1000...too much in my opinion for fuel pump replacement. Is it possible this could have been caused by the work I had done (cat recall, coils, plugs)? Of course the dealership says no, and they could be right, but I am suspicious of the dealership. They have tried to get me enough that I am almost done with Audi, as much as I like the cars (this S5 is my second Audi...had a 2002 A6 2.7T before this...another money pit). Just want to know if this whole fuel pump thing is common.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings JoshDub's Avatar
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    Which fuel pump? High pressure pump in the engine bay or the low pressure pump in the tank?
    The Awesome™

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshDub View Post
    Which fuel pump? High pressure pump in the engine bay or the low pressure pump in the tank?
    It is the pump on the passenger side/rear.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings mcbuck's Avatar
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    I would be suspicious, coincidental events are usually not. Leaking fuel pump throwing a misfire code?? I call BS.

    I experienced something similar with fumes and gas on the garage floor. Turns out the LP fuel pump in the tank had a shipping cap on an unused port (on the top, outside the tank). This port has something to do with recirculation on cold weather packages. Anyway, this cap eventually cracked and failed so that anytime I filled up the tank, gas was running out on top of the tank. Soaked into the foam under the back seat and created an overall very dangerous situation.

    Assuming same location, pull the back seat and investigate for yourself. Grab the seat between the bottom and back, pull up and out. Fuel pump should be under the cover on the passenger side with I think 3 screws holding it on. Let us know what you figure out.
    BUCK
    2013 RS5 Daytona Grey Pearl, X-pipe, 20% tint, Arc Audio/Alpine, interior/backup LED, 034 RSB, H&R sport, 10mm, V-FF 103, 285/30 DWS06, Girodisc, Hawk
    GONE - B7 A4 quatro, 2.0T, 6MT, 250K....dropped, tuned, and everything else

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings JoshDub's Avatar
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    Sounds like the low pressure fuel pump in the gas tank.

    I don't see why they would have touched that during the cat service. Your scenario certainly doesn't sound like a coincidence, but I don't see any logical reason for them to be back there to damage it.

    You can access the pump using the access panel under the rear seat. To get to pump you pull up the rear seat, remove the passenger side black access panel (3 screws). From there you will be able to see if the housing is cracked or if it's just the port plug like mcbuck mentioned. The pump replacement shouldn't take more than half an hour, and I believe a new pump is just shy of $400
    The Awesome™

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Buck/Josh...I appreciate your input. I wish I had come to the forum before leaving my car at Audi. The price I was quoted for the parts was somewhere between $400-$500...consistent with what you said Josh. Of course, they claim a bit more than 30 minutes on the labor. They'll probably get me for another $400 or so. I'm officially done with taking my car to the dealership...probably would never have been there anyway if it hadn't been for the recent recalls. This whole ordeal will cause me to either find a reputable mechanic, or get real comfortable with doing my own work again. This repair comes right on top of a mysterious failed starter that I just had replaced 2 weeks ago. I'm trying to hang with Audi, but they are making it hard. Again, thanks guys, for your insight.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings
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    op good luck. too bad you didnt ask sooner. the low pressure (and high pressure fuel pumps) fuel pumps are easy to change. could totally do it with the right tools and about an hour of your time. when i replaced my low pressure fuel pump the old one had a return port blocked off. the new one didnt come blocked off from the factory, and i had a leak there. which sounds like what your describing.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings JoshDub's Avatar
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    You aren't alone. The Audi dealers are awful for service around here. I don't understand how they come up with their pricing. For example, my VW dealer does full alignments for $110 and sometimes runs specials for less. Audi is nearly $400 for the exact same thing.

    Good call on trying to find a good indy. There is no reason not to.
    The Awesome™

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings
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    So, to update the initial post. Audi replaced my low pressure fuel pump...total cost (parts and labor) $1068. For the effing fuel pump...they even said they got to it through the back seat, which according to reputable posts here, was less than 1 hour of work. Oh, and here is the kicker...1 day later and my check engine light is back on. The code says misfire on cylinder 2, which is what it said when I took it back for the fuel pump. I guess I should start another thread to help me diagnose this issue. You guys seem to know more than the folks at the dealership. I just had the plugs and coils changed 3 weeks ago. I guess I'll start another thread on this issue if I can't find it on other posts.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings JoshDub's Avatar
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    RIP.

    The dealership will just throw your money at the car until the issue or you go away. Their level of diagnosis goes as far as the sales desk.

    Sounds like you have the V8, correct? Since you have replaced the plugs and coil packs, carbon buildup and fuel injectors are a common issue. Neither of which will be cheap. Posting up a thread outlaying what you've done, the details of the code (VCDS printout would be nice), and the symptoms you're experiencing would be a good place to start.
    The Awesome™

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings mcbuck's Avatar
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    Damn! Did you at least get a kiss??

    On stuff like that, anybody here would be more than happy to walk you through basic wrenching.

    As far as the misfire - since you just had coils replaced, I would think that would rule out a bad coil. BUT, you could swap coils around to see if the misfire follows the coil just to be sure. If it was me, I would start with a fuel injector cleaner. There are many options out there, but I have used techron in the past, YMMV.
    BUCK
    2013 RS5 Daytona Grey Pearl, X-pipe, 20% tint, Arc Audio/Alpine, interior/backup LED, 034 RSB, H&R sport, 10mm, V-FF 103, 285/30 DWS06, Girodisc, Hawk
    GONE - B7 A4 quatro, 2.0T, 6MT, 250K....dropped, tuned, and everything else

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshDub View Post
    RIP.

    The dealership will just throw your money at the car until the issue or you go away. Their level of diagnosis goes as far as the sales desk.

    Sounds like you have the V8, correct? Since you have replaced the plugs and coil packs, carbon buildup and fuel injectors are a common issue. Neither of which will be cheap. Posting up a thread outlaying what you've done, the details of the code (VCDS printout would be nice), and the symptoms you're experiencing would be a good place to start.
    I absolutely agree with your assessment on dealer diagnosis. I have horror stories that include being told I needed a new transmission ($6700) in my 02 A6, only to take it to an indy shop for a $250 dollar flush. Anyway...yes, I do have the 4.2 (08 S5). I will get another scan and post the result. As for symptoms, I can feel a slight misfire under moderate acceleration. It's more noticeable when the engine is cold. Acceleration is strong, so I have to be careful not to get into it too much to avoid the flashing CEL. No other symptoms that I can recall. I'll take note when I drive home from work tonight.

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbuck View Post
    Damn! Did you at least get a kiss??

    On stuff like that, anybody here would be more than happy to walk you through basic wrenching.

    As far as the misfire - since you just had coils replaced, I would think that would rule out a bad coil. BUT, you could swap coils around to see if the misfire follows the coil just to be sure. If it was me, I would start with a fuel injector cleaner. There are many options out there, but I have used techron in the past, YMMV.
    Yeah, no kiss, reach around, or nothin' ! I will try the injector cleaner tonight, and probably the coil swap this weekend if the injector cleaner doesn't work. I am definitely open to basic tutoring on some repairs. I figure I probably won't break it more than it is already broken. And repair costs at Audi are gonna put me in the poor house if I don't do something.

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshDub View Post
    RIP.

    The dealership will just throw your money at the car until the issue or you go away. Their level of diagnosis goes as far as the sales desk.

    Sounds like you have the V8, correct? Since you have replaced the plugs and coil packs, carbon buildup and fuel injectors are a common issue. Neither of which will be cheap. Posting up a thread outlaying what you've done, the details of the code (VCDS printout would be nice), and the symptoms you're experiencing would be a good place to start.
    I had a scan done at my local auto parts store last night. The only code detected was a P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire detected. As I stated earlier, I had plugs and coils replaced 3 weeks ago. Also had the CATs and ECU replaced under the recall during that same period. I do recall getting a Cylinder 2 misfire code even before having my coils and plugs replaced (that reading was back in March). Just had the low pressure fuel pump replaced (still smelling gas though). I'm treating the fuel now with Techron. I'll do two tanks back to back, but don't expect much of a result. I'll find a schematic to figure out which cylinder is #2 (I'm not sure which anymore), and see if juggling the coil packs around produces a different result. If it isn't a coil or sparkplug, what else could it be? I'm at a loss.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Three Rings mcbuck's Avatar
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    Pretty sure #2 is passenger side, second one from the front. If not plugs or coils, then carbon buildup or injector are about the only other culprits, as JoshDub said. Just thinking out loud, possibly fuel filter but that doesn't jive with only one cylinder misfire, and I would think you would get a bank lean CEL code also.
    Maybe pull the #2 plug and compare with the adjacent plugs to see if there is a difference. You can find plenty of pics diagnosing cylinder issues by plug condition.
    BUCK
    2013 RS5 Daytona Grey Pearl, X-pipe, 20% tint, Arc Audio/Alpine, interior/backup LED, 034 RSB, H&R sport, 10mm, V-FF 103, 285/30 DWS06, Girodisc, Hawk
    GONE - B7 A4 quatro, 2.0T, 6MT, 250K....dropped, tuned, and everything else

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings mcbuck's Avatar
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    update?
    BUCK
    2013 RS5 Daytona Grey Pearl, X-pipe, 20% tint, Arc Audio/Alpine, interior/backup LED, 034 RSB, H&R sport, 10mm, V-FF 103, 285/30 DWS06, Girodisc, Hawk
    GONE - B7 A4 quatro, 2.0T, 6MT, 250K....dropped, tuned, and everything else

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbuck View Post
    update?
    So, the low pressure fuel pump was replaced, but the check engine light came back on almost as soon as I left the shop. Bottom line, they still didn't know what the CEL was all about. They were guessing, really...I guess I kinda expect the Audi Techs at the dealership to be able to find the reason for a misfire, and not assume it's the first thing that they come across. They think NOW that it is probably a fuel injector...which is what I suggested when I brought the car back in.

    BTW, while I had the car in for the cat converter recall, I asked them if my clutch was in need of attention. They told me that it had some rust on it from clutch/brake fluid leaking on it from a leaky slave cylinder, but didn't recommend changing it. So, 2 days after the fuel pump was replaced (I was leaving work and on my way back to the dealership) my clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed there, so I had the car towed back to the dealer, where they promptly told me that the clutch failed from corrosion caused by the slave cylinder leak. They just tried to charge me almost $5K to replace the clutch kit. I told them that they were dishonest for not having given me a complete diagnosis after I initially asked them about the clutch. A good bit of the labor would have been covered with the cat work they were already doing if they had been forthcoming when I asked. They offered me a 10% discount on labor and 25% on parts "for my troubles"...that's it...I told them never again. I've since found an independent mechanic that I have a good feeling about, so I'm done with these bozos at the dealership. He has told me that labor on that should be no more than $1100 plus parts...and if he could do it quicker than the 13 hrs it called for, he would charge me less. I'm optimistic.

    I'm so glad I don't care for the looks of the new A5/S5...makes it an easier decision if things don't work out with this car. I need this to work out, because as much as I enjoy driving this car (whenever the hell I can get it on the road), I am on my last piece of patience with this car and this brand.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings JoshDub's Avatar
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    That is awful.

    If you do go down the path of replacing injectors, JHM has tested and cleaned injectors for half the price of new, they just require your bad set. This is significantly more cost effective than a brand new injector set.
    https://jhmotorsports.com/products/e...2l-fsi-v8.html
    The Awesome™

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basileus View Post
    So, the low pressure fuel pump was replaced, but the check engine light came back on almost as soon as I left the shop. Bottom line, they still didn't know what the CEL was all about. They were guessing, really...I guess I kinda expect the Audi Techs at the dealership to be able to find the reason for a misfire, and not assume it's the first thing that they come across. They think NOW that it is probably a fuel injector...which is what I suggested when I brought the car back in.

    BTW, while I had the car in for the cat converter recall, I asked them if my clutch was in need of attention. They told me that it had some rust on it from clutch/brake fluid leaking on it from a leaky slave cylinder, but didn't recommend changing it. So, 2 days after the fuel pump was replaced (I was leaving work and on my way back to the dealership) my clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed there, so I had the car towed back to the dealer, where they promptly told me that the clutch failed from corrosion caused by the slave cylinder leak. They just tried to charge me almost $5K to replace the clutch kit. I told them that they were dishonest for not having given me a complete diagnosis after I initially asked them about the clutch. A good bit of the labor would have been covered with the cat work they were already doing if they had been forthcoming when I asked. They offered me a 10% discount on labor and 25% on parts "for my troubles"...that's it...I told them never again. I've since found an independent mechanic that I have a good feeling about, so I'm done with these bozos at the dealership. He has told me that labor on that should be no more than $1100 plus parts...and if he could do it quicker than the 13 hrs it called for, he would charge me less. I'm optimistic.

    I'm so glad I don't care for the looks of the new A5/S5...makes it an easier decision if things don't work out with this car. I need this to work out, because as much as I enjoy driving this car (whenever the hell I can get it on the road), I am on my last piece of patience with this car and this brand.
    First off, assuming the check engine light is flashing and the engine is running very rough (when the light is on), you may have the dreaded carbon buildup. The codes that it throws is exactly what you're saying (misfires), and it's an intermittent thing that is tough for an untrained tech to diagnose. Some dealers will run you in circles trying to diagnose this issue, but if you google "S5 Carbon Buildup", you will have a ton of info on it. Even if the dealer does figure it out, they will quote you $2K+ like they did for me, and you'll need to find an independent shop to do it.

    Second, I think we are both at the same frustrating point. I've had my car for 7 years now, and literally everything is falling apart. I've put over $5,000 into it in the past 3 months, and I'm realizing that it may be best to part ways. The worst part is that I keep it because "I just put X amount of dollars into it, so I need to drive it to get my money's worth", and then a month later something else breaks.

    One of the main reasons I bought this car was because I thought it would be reliable, but Audi is proving me wrong.

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelers501 View Post
    First off, assuming the check engine light is flashing and the engine is running very rough (when the light is on), you may have the dreaded carbon buildup. The codes that it throws is exactly what you're saying (misfires), and it's an intermittent thing that is tough for an untrained tech to diagnose. Some dealers will run you in circles trying to diagnose this issue, but if you google "S5 Carbon Buildup", you will have a ton of info on it. Even if the dealer does figure it out, they will quote you $2K+ like they did for me, and you'll need to find an independent shop to do it.

    Second, I think we are both at the same frustrating point. I've had my car for 7 years now, and literally everything is falling apart. I've put over $5,000 into it in the past 3 months, and I'm realizing that it may be best to part ways. The worst part is that I keep it because "I just put X amount of dollars into it, so I need to drive it to get my money's worth", and then a month later something else breaks.

    One of the main reasons I bought this car was because I thought it would be reliable, but Audi is proving me wrong.
    The thing is, since I had the coils and plugs changed, the misfire is there, but not that noticeable until under load. I was careful not to accelerate hard, so that even when the light flashed, I could come off the gas until the flashing stopped. Still, I was taking it back when the whole clutch thing happened. I will definitely ask my indy mech about the carbon build up. He has the car now, and will systematically diagnose the car's issues.

    As for Audi's reliability, I should have learned from my first Audi (2002 A6 2.7T), but the S5 was just so stunning to look at, that I told myself the first car was just a lemon. Well, that car as it turns out, was not a lemon. Nor is this one. They are excellent riding cars that just really sensitive. On top of that, they are unnecessarily expensive to fix...and on top of that, when you go to the dealership to get them fixed, the already high maintenance prices double...even triple, and the mechanics have no idea how to diagnose an issue and they have absolutely no desire to help their customers find the most price effective fix for their issue. If you have, for example, an issue with your car stereo and take it to Audi, they'll just try to replace the stereo, instead of first checking to even see if the fuse for the stereo unit is blown (that's a true story BTW...). I have had 4 manual transmission cars before this S5. Out of 4 cars, each of which I had at least 250,000 miles on before I stopped driving them, I only changed one clutch, and that was on a Porsche 944T that had 200,000 miles on the original clutch...drove that car really hard too. I am about to be on my third clutch in the S5...less than 130,000 miles.

    You are so right about wanting to drive the car to get my money's worth...but that might be a fools errand. I was just teaching my son about making business decisions that are best for him. I might need to teach him by showing him I can make one. We'll see how this whole thing goes. I'm still optimistic, and I do love this car, but I really can't take many more bloody noses.

    I'll update later this week after my new mechanic fiddles around with the car. I need a win...C'MON RUSTY!!! (my mechanic's name)

  21. #21
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshDub View Post
    RIP.

    The dealership will just throw your money at the car until the issue or you go away. Their level of diagnosis goes as far as the sales desk...
    JoshDub,

    This, BTW, is probably the best quote I have heard all year; both in truth and snark level (). Full disclosure...I have co-opted it for my own use...I'll send a check later!



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