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  1. #1
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Why have we not considered this? Design Engineering Cryo2 spray bar kit

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    So during my daily break from life, race car modding/science engineering research I came across this product:

    http://designengineering.com/intercooler-sprayer-kit/

    I emailed them in an attempt to get a dialogue started on how this could be more specifically integrated to our platform and our IAT control needs. Using co2 to cool the heat exchanger, or somehow the SC intercoolers seems like a reasonable consideration, works just like a can of compressed air to freeze the snout of the supercharger when swapping pulleys, very low to zero flammability, and the literal freezing of the intercoolers on a demand basis would be awesome. I know we have a lot of more experienced modders here, and some borderline geniuses, what do you guys think? Option worth exploring?
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  2. #2
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Why have we not considered this? Design Engineering Cryo2 spray bar kit

    USRT and others have spray nozzle kits that spray methanol mixtures onto the heat exchangers. Iím not sure how much it adds in terms of lowering IATs compared to a large heat-exchanger and reservoir on their own though. Cost/benefit would also have to be looked at.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajan01 View Post
    USRT and others have spray nozzle kits that spray methanol mixtures onto the heat exchangers. Iím not sure how much it adds in terms of lowering IATs compared to a large heat-exchanger and reservoir on their own though. Cost/benefit would also have to be looked at.
    How bout in conjunction with an upgraded heat exchanger? That's kind of what I'm thinking. Also I feel like, dont know for sure I'm not a thermal dynamics expert, c02 would provide better cooling than methanol for this purpose at least...

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    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Why have we not considered this? Design Engineering Cryo2 spray bar kit

    I agree but at speed the idea that the CO2 or methanol mixture is adhering to the heat-exchanger enough to allow for an increase in evaporation and hence cooling is where I am skeptical about the whole thing. In the end will it really matter in a 1/4 mile race? I understand that every bit counts but Iím not on board, and I have spoken to a few people at length about this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Understood and appreciate the insight. Kind of hoping they have some thoughts on implementing it elsewhere in the loop as well but still would like to see this in action, especially with a programmable switch to maybe build up the chill in the heat exchanger before a run, so theres not as much catching up to do in keeping the temps down?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  6. #6
    Senior Member Two Rings extratime's Avatar
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    I almost pulled the trigger on one of these last year. I ended up dropping the idea because it would be virtually impossible to avoid sucking CO2 gas into our air intake. I don't even think you could relocate the air intake in anyway to avoid this.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Those systems are designed for air to air intercoolers FYI (think Evo or WRX with a large front mount IC).

    Wouldn't do much good for our vehicles.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Yeah I noticed that it was mainly turbo applications etc... but figured I'd reach out anyways and see what their thoughts were. I cant see how freezing the heat exchanger would be anything but beneficial though honestly, water to air or air to air it has to help somehow. They also have a flow through fuel cooler which could be interesting if it was repurposed into the SC intercooler loop somehow. I also dont know how harmful the co2 over spray would be to our engine, I mean we exhale c02 all day lol. Hopefully they email back with some insight. The little cooling device in the intake is in interesting also not sure if it being in the middle of the airflow is really worth it though.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I don't know but this does look good!
    2012 B8 S4 DSG Sport diff. APR Stage 2 V4.0, APR TCU tune, JHM 187 lower pulley, Modded air box, silicone tube, CR-15.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Yeah that's the intake cooling cone... seems interesting to say the least
    Quote Originally Posted by davesxx01 View Post


    I don't know but this does look good!
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    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings extratime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jroyalty7 View Post
    I also dont know how harmful the co2 over spray would be to our engine, I mean we exhale c02 all day lol. Hopefully they email back with some insight.

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    Yes we exhale C02 we don't inhale it. At least not on purpose. Just like a car we inhale oxygen. What would happen if you inhaled to much C02? You would probably have a pretty bad day.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extratime View Post
    Yes we exhale C02 we don't inhale it. At least not on purpose. Just like a car we inhale oxygen. What would happen if you inhaled to much C02? You would probably have a pretty bad day.
    Hahaa I believe that's a whippit and some people enjoy it very much lol. Anyways I hope you dont think I was trying to be a dick... sometimes text doesnt give off the right tone to what's being said. I legitimately wonder if the amount of excess co2 picked up by the intake would be detrimental or not.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings Aiserock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jroyalty7 View Post
    Hahaa I believe that's a whippit and some people enjoy it very much lol. Anyways I hope you dont think I was trying to be a dick... sometimes text doesnt give off the right tone to what's being said. I legitimately wonder if the amount of excess co2 picked up by the intake would be detrimental or not.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    I don't think the "good" whippets are CO2. CO2 will just make you breathe really fast for a few seconds no "fun" side effects. Don't ask me how I know.

    If I were to speculate, it looks like the CO2 would flow through the pipe and the plumb bob looking thing, and not actually flow in to the intake itself. I could be wrong though.
    2014 S4 Prestige; CR-15 | Moog End Links | 034 Cross Brace | 034 Rear Sway Bar | EPL Stage 2 & TCU | AMS Alpha HX

  14. #14
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiserock View Post
    I don't think the "good" whippets are CO2. CO2 will just make you breathe really fast for a few seconds no "fun" side effects. Don't ask me how I know.

    If I were to speculate, it looks like the CO2 would flow through the pipe and the plumb bob looking thing, and not actually flow in to the intake itself. I could be wrong though.
    Ehhh theres co2 and n20 whippets but yes I think the latter is better lol... that's no way saying that I would know ;) but yeah theres 2 different things, the air intake thing which is cooled by c02 internally and air is supposed to be cooled as it flows over it. And then the spray nozzle which sprays co2 onto the heatexchanger and freezes the fins, but that's where there would be some over flow of co2 that could end up being taken in through the intake

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings Aiserock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jroyalty7 View Post
    Ehhh theres co2 and n20 whippets but yes I think the latter is better lol... that's no way saying that I would know ;) but yeah theres 2 different things, the air intake thing which is cooled by c02 internally and air is supposed to be cooled as it flows over it. And then the spray nozzle which sprays co2 onto the heatexchanger and freezes the fins, but that's where there would be some over flow of co2 that could end up being taken in through the intake

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    Gotcha,

    I wonder if straight nitrogen could be used (over nitrous oxide) the heat capacity is higher than CO2 iirc and it's inert.

    I work for a cryogenics company, we build stuff for cooling super conducting magnets and vacuum jacketed stuff for colliders and rockets, I've pondered ways of cooling hot stuff that I'm interested in (computers/cars) but we mainly play around with liquids and that shit is cost prohibative for a general market product.
    2014 S4 Prestige; CR-15 | Moog End Links | 034 Cross Brace | 034 Rear Sway Bar | EPL Stage 2 & TCU | AMS Alpha HX

  16. #16
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiserock View Post
    Gotcha,

    I wonder if straight nitrogen could be used (over nitrous oxide) the heat capacity is higher than CO2 iirc and it's inert.

    I work for a cryogenics company, we build stuff for cooling super conducting magnets and vacuum jacketed stuff for colliders and rockets, I've pondered ways of cooling hot stuff that I'm interested in (computers/cars) but we mainly play around with liquids and that shit is cost prohibative for a general market product.
    See your exactly the type of person I was searching for looking this stuff up today lol... I was thinking about cooling blankets with liquid cooling circuits for the supercharger or intercoolers... kind of like what's used in gaming computers. Or electric auxillary pumps filled with liquid nitrous or some other better thermal conducting/dissipating liquid etc... just to think outside the box

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  17. #17
    Senior Member Two Rings extratime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jroyalty7 View Post
    Hahaa I believe that's a whippit and some people enjoy it very much lol. Anyways I hope you dont think I was trying to be a dick... sometimes text doesnt give off the right tone to what's being said. I legitimately wonder if the amount of excess co2 picked up by the intake would be detrimental or not.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    Nah I didn't think you were being negative. Btw if you did want to test this save yourself some money and just go buy a cheap C02 fire extinguisher and spray your IC. I think N20 might be a better option and if that didn't work you could just turn it into a 50 shot or something.

    I looked at all these things. I even put a water mister on my I.C. for awhile and it didn't do a thing.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by extratime View Post
    Nah I didn't think you were being negative. Btw if you did want to test this save yourself some money and just go buy a cheap C02 fire extinguisher and spray your IC. I think N20 might be a better option and if that didn't work you could just turn it into a 50 shot or something.

    I looked at all these things. I even put a water mister on my I.C. for awhile and it didn't do a thing.
    Yeah your absolutely right. Hahhaa how funny would I look at the track though spraying the ic down with a fire extinguisher... I'm sure that would raise some eyebrows, but for testing purposes I may be game lol. I like the multi use of nitrous too, hmmm back to the drawing board

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    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings Aiserock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jroyalty7 View Post
    See your exactly the type of person I was searching for looking this stuff up today lol... I was thinking about cooling blankets with liquid cooling circuits for the supercharger or intercoolers... kind of like what's used in gaming computers. Or electric auxillary pumps filled with liquid nitrous or some other better thermal conducting/dissipating liquid etc... just to think outside the box

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    After I had some time to sleep on it (the wine wore off) CO2 is much warmer than N2, so you don't have to worry about freezing your coolant. That's probably why you wouldn't want to use LN2 (Liquid) you'd freeze your coolant which would be counter productive.

    The thing you have to worry about with computer cooling is that cryogenic piping/tubing/valves etc. sweat and freeze up. One way to combat this is use vacuum jacketed items. You add an annular space on everything and evacuate that space. All that stuff is expensive. I'd say 10k for a simple setup at least. That's all good but then you have to supply the system with a cryogen constantly so that's an additional cost. There is the possibilty of making a loss-less system but to buy a cryocooler would be upwards of (best off the top of my head guess) 15k just for the cryocooler.

    Most of our customers are government in nature NASA/Universities/Military because they have the budget...

    I won't give up thinking about it, maybe a light bulb moment will occur, maybe I should try out the good whippets and see what happens :D
    2014 S4 Prestige; CR-15 | Moog End Links | 034 Cross Brace | 034 Rear Sway Bar | EPL Stage 2 & TCU | AMS Alpha HX

  20. #20
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiserock View Post
    After I had some time to sleep on it (the wine wore off) CO2 is much warmer than N2, so you don't have to worry about freezing your coolant. That's probably why you wouldn't want to use LN2 (Liquid) you'd freeze your coolant which would be counter productive.

    The thing you have to worry about with computer cooling is that cryogenic piping/tubing/valves etc. sweat and freeze up. One way to combat this is use vacuum jacketed items. You add an annular space on everything and evacuate that space. All that stuff is expensive. I'd say 10k for a simple setup at least. That's all good but then you have to supply the system with a cryogen constantly so that's an additional cost. There is the possibilty of making a loss-less system but to buy a cryocooler would be upwards of (best off the top of my head guess) 15k just for the cryocooler.

    Most of our customers are government in nature NASA/Universities/Military because they have the budget...

    I won't give up thinking about it, maybe a light bulb moment will occur, maybe I should try out the good whippets and see what happens :D
    Lmao hey they're micro dosing lsd in silicone valley for "creative" purposes, why cant we as a car community enjoy the benefits of anoxic brain cells once and a while. But yeah that's all way to expensive for the end result. It's way to easy to warm things up than it is to cool them down, I think I need a drink lol

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    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177

  21. #21
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Thermodynamics 101... Lowering the iat will increase the fluids specific volume, in turn allowing more work to be accomplished... I'm a proponent of liquid to air it heat exchangers, specifically refrigerant to air since cars have air conditioning nowadays. Check out the Dodge demon supercharger cooler with an ac system bypass to accomplish this, why not apply this to most vehicles? Or, maybe a water to air heat exchanger for the iat with a split colder water source. More heat transfer... The calculations on justifying the HP draw for the use of an ac compressor and benefits of lowering the iat get pretty cplex though

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  22. #22
    Senior Member Four Rings Jroyalty7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hessen View Post
    Thermodynamics 101... Lowering the iat will increase the fluids specific volume, in turn allowing more work to be accomplished... I'm a proponent of liquid to air it heat exchangers, specifically refrigerant to air since cars have air conditioning nowadays. Check out the Dodge demon supercharger cooler with an ac system bypass to accomplish this, why not apply this to most vehicles? Or, maybe a water to air heat exchanger for the iat with a split colder water source. More heat transfer... The calculations on justifying the HP draw for the use of an ac compressor and benefits of lowering the iat get pretty cplex though

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Audizine mobile app
    Right, I saw an explanantion of the hellcat system which is what prompted to start investigating more options for our platform. Some kind of better/improved cooling loop compared to the killer chiller. I think the killer chillers great but theres more that could be had from that type of system.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Crapatalk
    EPL Stage II DP Tune | EPL 57.60mm SC Pulley | 183mm Fluidampr Crank Pulley | Jokerz Ported SC| Aquamist WMI 375cc Jet @ TB| AMS Alpha Heat Exchanger | Milltek Sport Non-Resonated CBE | ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Teknik Intake | Alu Kreuz | CR-15 | 034 Drive Train & Trans Inserts | Bilstein PSS10 | SPC Upper Control Arms | TSW Bathurst 20x10 | Pulley Ratio=3.177



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