What happened to my tires?

[asauter41]

Can someone help me get to the bottom of what made my front tires wear down this way? So the front two tires are both worn down evenly across most of the surface but the very inside in worn down at a very strong angle. I included some pictures to show the tire off and on.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hilmar2k]

Camber way off? Had an alignment recently?

[asauter41]

Camber way off? Had an alignment recently?

That’s what my first thought was too, but I had a alignment right after I put coilovers on. Also the angle it wore off at is just so steep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tar]

I'm no mechanic but I believe this is retaliation from the car because you put a sticker on its paint.

[Reddie]

Alignment was probably off, most likely the camber. Typically happens when lowering cars and will need to dial the camber back into spec.

[asauter41]

I'm no mechanic but I believe this is retaliation from the car because you put a sticker on its paint.

Would have never come to that conclusion but you make a good point haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveYem]

It looks like accelerated wear from too much negative camber and/or too much toe angle. My summer tires are showing the same type of wear (although not as extreme) and I'm fairly certain it's due to too much toe-in on the rears, probably because I've adjusted my coilover ride height without getting the wheels realigned afterwards. In general, excessive toe angle will wear the tire inner edge more rapidly than negative camber alone - however, the combination of the two would lead to the treadwear you have pictured.

EDIT - Do you have your most recent alignment spec sheet handy? Unfortunately, front camber is not adjustable with the stock upper control arms, but toe angle is adjustable.

[asauter41]

It looks like accelerated wear from too much negative camber and/or too much toe angle. My summer tires are showing the same type of wear (although not as extreme) and I'm fairly certain it's due to too much toe-in on the rears, probably because I've adjusted my coilover ride height without getting the wheels realigned afterwards. In general, excessive toe angle will wear the tire inner edge more rapidly than negative camber alone - however, the combination of the two would lead to the treadwear you have pictured.

Yes that makes sense. I’ve done the same thing, raised the height a little to take care of rubbing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hilmar2k]

It looks like accelerated wear from too much negative camber and/or too much toe angle. My summer tires are showing the same type of wear (although not as extreme) and I'm fairly certain it's due to too much toe-in on the rears, probably because I've adjusted my coilover ride height without getting the wheels realigned afterwards. In general, excessive toe angle will wear the tire inner edge more rapidly than negative camber alone - however, the combination of the two would lead to the treadwear you have pictured.

EDIT - Do you have your most recent alignment spec sheet handy? Unfortunately, front camber is not adjustable with the stock upper control arms, but toe angle is adjustable.

That wear looks to be camber, not toe, related.

[asauter41]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ModItNow]

Need to adjust your camber/toe, your coils probably settled. May even need adjustable control arms to get it right depending how low you are

Sent from my S9+

[hilmar2k]

Camber doesn't look far enough off to wear like that..... (at least based on that alignment report, maybe it's changed since)

[SteveYem]

That wear looks to be camber, not toe, related.

It may be both. The negative camber focuses the wear on the inner edge, for sure, but that wear is accelerated if there is any toe angle because then the tire is effectively getting "dragged" across the road as opposed to a pure rolling contact which would theoretically occur at zero toe angle. With that said, if these tires have 30k+ miles on them the apparent wear could very well be solely based on camber. I think the stretch on the tires is also contributing to the narrow focus of the wear.

[SteveYem]

Re: Alignment report - Maybe the suspension gurus can chime in, but I'm pretty sure those toe angles could be reduced without negatively affecting the handling of the car, which would help to reduce this type of wear. Seems to me that -2.0 deg. camber coupled with .15 deg. toe is the culprit. I believe toe angles are typically set a little off from zero (I don't remember whether it's in the positive or negative direction) so that when the suspension is loaded and components deflect a bit under load the effect toe while the car is in motion is closer to zero. I may be wrong.

[hilmar2k]

Re: Alignment report - Maybe the suspension gurus can chime in, but I'm pretty sure those toe angles could be reduced without negatively affecting the handling of the car, which would help to reduce this type of wear. Seems to me that -2.0 deg. camber coupled with .15 deg. toe is the culprit. I believe toe angles are typically set a little off from zero (I don't remember whether it's in the positive or negative direction) so that when the suspension is loaded and components deflect a bit under load the effect toe while the car is in motion is closer to zero. I may be wrong.

The toe is within spec, the camber is slightly out.

[SteveYem]

The toe is within spec, the camber is slightly out.

Yep I noticed that, too. That got me thinking that the overall OEM limits for camber and toe are based on having the combination of both the camber and toe within those limits, if that makes sense. In other words, if the wheel is kept within -1.6 degrees camber (or whatever the limit is) then that effectively determines the contact patch of the tire on the road, i.e. the amount of rubber that will take the brunt of the friction. Then I guess they determined that running a wheel+tire at -1.6 degrees rotated up to 0.26 degrees away from straight-ahead was an acceptable threshold for handling and tire wear. But at -2.0 / -2.4 camber, I think all bets are off. Contact patch is reduced meaning less material in contact with the road to do the same amount of work, and any toe angle further accelerates the wear. I think the stretch on the tire exacerbates the issue.

To be clear, I am not criticizing the OP's alignment settings. I'm pretty much in the same boat and my tires are nearing the same condition. I'm going to discuss with my shop the ramifications of setting my toe angles closer to zero to preserve tires, since I'm not really interested in installing adjustable control arms in the front to correct the camber. I think I am also in the -2.0 degree range.

[hilmar2k]

^^ Yeah, I'm sure the toe is compounded by the camber being out of spec. That said, toe wear is usually across the tire, but more pronounced on the inside, whereas camber is confined to the inside of the tire. Just judging by the tires, it looks more like camber wear. But you're right, it's probably a combo of the two.

[SteveYem]

^^ Yeah, I'm sure the toe is compounded by the camber being out of spec. That said, toe wear is usually across the tire, but more pronounced on the inside, whereas camber is confined to the inside of the tire. Just judging by the tires, it looks more like camber wear. But you're right, it's probably a combo of the two.

I completely agree that the location and width of the wear pattern is due to the camber angle.

@OP - About how many miles do you have on those tires, and when were they rotated (if at all)?

[whts4]

I had the same wear type on my STI running coilovers....I was running -1.8 front toe, 0.0 front toe. After chasing this for over a year and trying different toe and camber settings a knowledgeable suspension guru told me that it was most likely due to: 1) lowered suspension altered the suspension travel so that the dynamic toe and castor was "miss aligning " the tires, 2) with the more capable suspension the car/driver was carrying more speed into corners thus triggering the factory stability control (automatic wheel braking) so that the individual tires were being "braked" to reduce push. These to elements create a situation where wear is acclelevated on the inner edges of the front tires. No matter how much "static" alignment specs are changed the suspension dynamic changes and stability control will cause this issue without a well thought out suspension alteration and $$$$.

[Silver Streakin]

Too much toe-in.

When running -2 then you can’t run that much toe. I have mine at almost zero for front and a tiny amount of toe in the rear.

[bhvrdr]

Too much toe-in.

When running -2 then you can’t run that much toe. I have mine at almost zero for front and a tiny amount of toe in the rear.

Absolutely. That is a toe related issue which isn't helped by the camber but the toe settings we'll get rid of that. Just because it shows green doesn't mean its right for your setup. Try .02 or .05

Mike

[s4hype]

I'm going to go with suspension geometry on this one, all your connecting arms aren't parallel with the ground and is causing weird wear. With -2 camber and toe, the tire shouldn't wear that steep on the edge.

[chaos2984]

Your camber is way the hell out. You are over 100% over stock. Stock is usually -1 at max. You are well over -2 Thats your problem right there.

[bhvrdr]

Your camber is way the hell out. You are over 100% over stock. Stock is usually -1 at max. You are well over -2 Thats your problem right there.

Front camber is relatively unadjustable and fixing toe will take care of most of that wear

[TexasDfwS4]

To many corners. Guy like to drive.

[EstorilS4]

Combination of neg camber and too much toe-in (+toe), but that type of wear in general is indicative of too much toe-in, especially with that much -camber). Also, alignment shops can screw up and the actual spec can be different than the sheet they send you home with. Had this happen recently and too much toe in caused my fronts to scrub off about 4/32nd's of tread in about 500 miles of highway driving. Too much toe angle will absolutely DESTROY the tires shoulders.

[cspcrx]

Toe
Toe
Toe
Toe
You have too much toe out. If they tell you it’s in specs tell them you want it at the low end of the specs.

[u2nelson]

Unless you have adjustable UCA, your camber and castor is fixed. Too much toe is the problem either way, it will eat tires. As for alignment shops and the print out of your final settings, I carefully watched a shop tech adjust everything, but he did not tighten anything down, so it was easy for him to center things up and get the readings he new I wanted. He took the computer reading for the print out, and THEN tightened everything down. Totally cheating on how good a job he did or did not do and the print out was not worth the paper he used. I never went back to that place.

[Jay@JXB]

That’s way the heck up on the shoulder. Maybe could be camber, but before you go paying for another alignment, make sure there’s no signs of rubbing on the uprights at the inside top of the tire. If you have big wheels and a decent offset, you could be just rubbing your tire on the inside there. My 345s rub the upright a little....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RyanJon]

You need to drive harder and corner faster to combat excessive camber and wear your tyres more evenly.

[Silver Streakin]

Your camber is way the hell out. You are over 100% over stock. Stock is usually -1 at max. You are well over -2 Thats your problem right there.

Nope. Stock specs aren’t the end all to alignment specs.

I’ve run -2.X on my B5, B7, B8 and my CTS-V and never had this tire wear , because I dialed out the toe as any good alignment / race shop would do. But good luck finding someone willing to do that for you. Most of these corporate chains and dealers will try to put the car into spec, which is wrong with a lowered car that is no longer in stock spec.

[richardm0025]

Adjustable upper control arms or set toe closer to 0. The alignmemt spec sheet may say that your in the green and good to go however that is for a stock car.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Audizine mobile app

[SteveYem]

Nope. Stock specs aren’t the end all to alignment specs.

I’ve run -2.X on my B5, B7, B8 and my CTS-V and never had this tire wear , because I dialed out the toe as any good alignment / race shop would do. But good luck finding someone willing to do that for you. Most of these corporate chains and dealers will try to put the car into spec, which is wrong with a lowered car that is no longer in stock spec.

Do you recall what you specified for your toe settings? I've heard that there should be small amount of toe-in so that the toe is effectively as close to zero as possible when the car is in motion. I'm due for an alignment and want to make sure I get it right this time.

[ElectroMike]

How many miles did you ride after the coilovers were installed? General rule is to get at least a few hundred miles before an alignment is done, this way it settles (as others mentioned above).

[01northernS4]

I'm no mechanic but I believe this is retaliation from the car because you put a sticker on its paint.

lol love this response

+1

[01northernS4]

Do you recall what you specified for your toe settings? I've heard that there should be small amount of toe-in so that the toe is effectively as close to zero as possible when the car is in motion. I'm due for an alignment and want to make sure I get it right this time.

+1 I'm having the same wear problem and would like to know the proper total toe setting for our vehicles at these approx. specs (-2 camber)

guessing approx. +0.0 to +0.08 per side?

[asauter41]

How many miles did you ride after the coilovers were installed? General rule is to get at least a few hundred miles before an alignment is done, this way it settles (as others mentioned above).

Ya I don’t think it was quiet that long, around 2-3 weeks so 500-1000 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveYem]

Ya I don’t think it was quiet that long, around 2-3 weeks so 500-1000 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Were the tires new at the beginning of that 500-1000 miles? If so, I'm surprised it would eat through them that quickly. I've been driving for a couple years now at similar alignment specs and haven't fully eaten through the inner tread like that yet, although it's getting close.

[theweebabyseamus]

+1 i'm having the same wear problem and would like to know the proper total toe setting for our vehicles at these approx. Specs (-2 camber)

guessing approx. +0.0 to +0.08 per side?

total toe
0.33° ± 0.17

[Silver Streakin]

Do you recall what you specified for your toe settings? I've heard that there should be small amount of toe-in so that the toe is effectively as close to zero as possible when the car is in motion. I'm due for an alignment and want to make sure I get it right this time.

-2 front with 0 toe
-1.5 rear with 0.03 toe

That might be a little too free for some people... but I track my cars (not the B8...yet) and like it loose.

You may want to do .03 front and rear. Or a touch more in the rear. If the shop won’t take it out of spec, tell them the lowest settings... that readout shows .05 and .08. Do that.