B7 S4 IM badly peeling

[Euston]

Hi guys, I'm new to the b7 (got a b6 avant) although i know it's similar, this particular b7 is an S4. I know it's a beautiful looking engine, but when i popped the hood on the S4 that is for sale, the Intake Manifold was badly "burnt-looking" and/or peeling.... is this a common thing? What could cause this? I WISH I took a picture but I did not.... It's a B7 S4 Avant 150k as far as the used dealership there are no maintenance records or anything from previous owner...

Your thoughts?

[VinnysS4]

Never seen it on the manifold unless it's someone's shitty paint job lol.

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[Euston]

This is what it looks like. Got a picture.
This isn’t a common problem is it?
Is it easily treated and powder coated or painted?


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[mad70sx]

The IM on my B6 looked very similar and was peeling in pretty much the same spots as yours. Almost looked like it was overheated, causing the paint to peel. I thought it might be due to my timing being out of whack before I did the chain/guide repair.

It was running lean and was getting some detonation and I thought things might have been overheated due to the lean condition. When it was in the shop for the chain/guide repair, I asked the mechanic about it and he said he didn't think it was anything more than just the paint failing and flaking off and had nothing to do with my car running lean.

Never did figure out what caused it to peel but the fact that the paint did look overheated (brownish discoloration) makes me think it was something more than just failed paint. I have a different IM on my car now since the timing chain repair. The replacement IM I put on had factory paint and does not have any discoloration or peeling after approx 2500 mi of run time.

I never got the original, peeling one repainted. If I did, powder coating would be the way I'd go but the IM would have to be removed to do that.

[eurojunkjon]

My b7 looks like that also. Only 86k miles.

[Euston]

My b7 looks like that also. Only 86k miles.

Hmm.. so what did you do? Or are you going to do?


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[eurojunkjon]

I haven’t done nothing as of yet but I’m planning to get it powdercoated at some point.

[jrow26]

Mine was doing the same thing just waiting for it to come back from powder coating


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[Euston]

Mine was doing the same thing just waiting for it to come back from powder coating


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Please post before and after pics.
Any reason WHY this is happening??


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[jrow26]

I’ll have to find before pictures but once I get it back I’ll post the after pics. As far as why it’s happening only thought I had was that when Audi casted the intake they had imperfections and they filled them in with filler or something and then painted them and from the heat over time it’s pealing and flaking off. But that’s just a wild guess


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[Terry.Reese]

Mine did that originally as well, not that extreme though. I sanded mine, sprayed with hi temp ceramic based paint and clear coat, this was my last one,
IMG_20171222_195713438%7E01.jpg

modified my IM flapper for this one.
IMG_20180508_140929979_HDR%7E01.jpg

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[mad70sx]

Mine did that originally as well, not that extreme though. I sanded mine, sprayed with hi temp ceramic based paint and clear coat, this was my last one,
IMG_20171222_195713438%7E01.jpg

modified my IM flapper for this one.
IMG_20180508_140929979_HDR%7E01.jpg

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Interesting color choices.

[Terry.Reese]

Interesting color choices.

Had to leave the Iron man colors... lol

[Euston]

How do you guys like the 4.2? Is it as bad as what you read... if you don’t get to the chain tensioners asap it’ll blow up? Or reg oil changes


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[jrow26]

Lol that’s funny I’m doing my intake gold as well but it’s a lighter gold to Mach the gold rims I’m putting on but my VC ‘s are a different red as well.. I got to say Vth high temp wrinkle paint works amazing. I’m not an professional painter by any means but it was easy and came out flawlessly !


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[jrow26]

Also did the intake flapper


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[Euston]

Lol that’s funny I’m doing my intake gold as well but it’s a lighter gold to Mach the gold rims I’m putting on but my VC ‘s are a different red as well.. I got to say Vth high temp wrinkle paint works amazing. I’m not an professional painter by any means but it was easy and came out flawlessly !


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Pictures!


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[Jake@JHM]

These manifolds are NOTORIOUS for peeling like this. Unfortunately.

[jrow26]

IMG_5057.jpgIMG_5043.JPG here are the VG’s

I pick up my intake Friday I’ll post pictures of it then.


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[Euston]

IMG_5057.jpgIMG_5043.JPG here are the VG’s

I pick up my intake Friday I’ll post pictures of it then.


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Wow!! Looks great man!!!


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[VinnysS4]

I’ll have to find before pictures but once I get it back I’ll post the after pics. As far as why it’s happening only thought I had was that when Audi casted the intake they had imperfections and they filled them in with filler or something and then painted them and from the heat over time it’s pealing and flaking off. But that’s just a wild guess


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This is probably a pretty good guess considering almost all of the valve covers end up this way as well. My valve covers looked very close to this before I blasted and painted them

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[jrow26]

Wow!! Looks great man!!!


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Thank you


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[Euston]

How do you guys like the 4.2? Is it as bad as what you read... if you don’t get to the chain tensioners asap it’ll blow up? Or reg oil changes



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[VinnysS4]

How do you guys like the 4.2? Is it as bad as what you read... if you don’t get to the chain tensioners asap it’ll blow up? Or reg oil changes



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Love my 4.2 s4.
Yes it's as bad lol

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[Euston]

Love my 4.2 s4.
Yes it's as bad lol

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Lol. That’s funny. But it’s worth it isn’t it? On the verge of pulling the trigger on a b7 S4...


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[VinnysS4]

Lol. That’s funny. But it’s worth it isn’t it? On the verge of pulling the trigger on a b7 S4...


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In my opinion, I wish I would have started with a different platform. I wrote this yesterday replying to somebody looking for purchasing an S4. I just copied it from the other thread:

If you are trying to reduce your bills, I would not suggest a b6/b7 S4. While they are great cars, they can be very needy at times and when those times come around, its not cheap to fix.
100% agree that maintenance is a far better seller to me than mileage is.
If you buy a B6 or B7 (2003-2008) S4, make sure it has had the timing chains done with upgraded RS4 guides, or you will be doing the job again when the KNOWN faulty OEM S4 guide breaks again. The RS4 does not have timing chain issues because their guide's bodies are made of metal, not plastic. (The ones in question )
Some cars never have the guide issue, more noted in the later years. But ask any shop who specializes in b6/b7 s4 4.2 engines how many s4 engines with 100,000 miles come in with broken timing chain guides. A guy on here just posted that his 130k mile s4 is in need of its 2nd chain service. That's a tough cookie to swallow when you don't do the work yourself. Book time is 40 hours. Any reputable shop near me is $100+/hr for labor. Parts get expensive too. Just food for thought.
Some guys have massive oil consumption issues as well. As bad as adding a quart every 200-300 miles. A proper PPI before purchase is a must. Doesn't matter what dealer or lot it's at. It needs the cylinders boroscoped for scratches. When people "get on" their cars when they're cold, the Pistons swell faster than the bore does and can push the piston rings into the cylinder walls causing a path for oil and air pressure to get by. A lot guy at the Local "reputable" Audi dealership drove my car through the lot like he stole it. Cold. Right in front of me. If they do that to my car, just imagine what they do when people don't see them.
And if you drive a lot and put good oil in your car, and/or change it often, it holds like 10 quarts of not cheap oil. I dailyed my S4 for a while from Oregon to Washington. The round trip was like 180 miles. Even doing the oil changes myself, it still got expensive dumping the oil every 2 weeks.

Bad control arms are common as well. My car was owned by some lady before me and was 100% stock when I got it. It had bad upper control arms on both sides, and bad motor mounts that caused a horrible popping sound when pushed hard. I didnt push it hard on the test drive. Also a huge common cause for popping or creaking is the steering rack. It is held in the car with 3 12 point 10mm bolts. They come loose often. 2 are accessible from above and 1 from below.

Oil leaks. All cars develop them eventually. The S4 develops a leak at the valley pan gasket and/or oil filter housing gasket. Expect a shop to quote several hours labor and "while you're in there" expect your bill to be a good grand.

Hope this helps.
And BTW, I absolutely LOVE my S4. But after almost $10,000 in parts in 3 years, I wish I would have kept my RS6. Maintenance cost was right on par with that.


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[mad70sx]

How do you guys like the 4.2?

Still in love with mine and have had it for about 10 years but I have also already gone through the timing chain/guide issue and made the appropriate repairs.

Is it as bad as what you read... if you don’t get to the chain tensioners asap it’ll blow up?

Short answer...no, imho, but the issue will probably come up at some point. Not all have this issue but many have, myself included. Well worth the cost of the repair to save a B6/7 S4 if the issue does come up though, again imho. And it's not likely to "blow up" if the chain guide issue does arise, unless you continue to drive it once it has been diagnoses as such.

Make sure you change your oil regularly with a high quality synthetic, don't beat on it until it's warmed up, etc and for the most part, the BHF engine is stronger and more reliable than most naysayers will give it credit for.

[jrow26]

Love my B7 S4.. but it can be bad haha but it does help when you can do the work yourself and enjoy it.. I can say it’s a love hate relationship..but wouldn’t change my choice of buying it.


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[mad70sx]

I can say it’s a love hate relationship..but wouldn’t change my choice of buying it.

lol this, exactly.

[Euston]

All very very valuable information. Thank you!!

I’m pretty handy when it comes to working on my own engines/cars. Done a few timing belts on a variety of sports cars and lots of other stuff too. I’m sure I can tackle most of the immediate needs. However the ‘removal of the 4.2’ to do chain tensioners has me puckered. I’m fortunate to have my b6 a4 Avant while the S4 would be in my garage for allllllllll the work from engine to control arms.

This particular S4 is stock which gets me excited but worried because it hasn’t been used by a fast n furious kid but the scheduled maintenance has probably fallen through cracks... it has 150k so I’m worried I’ll get to 152k before I have to rip it apart $$




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[Terry.Reese]

All very very valuable information. Thank you!!

I’m pretty handy when it comes to working on my own engines/cars. Done a few timing belts on a variety of sports cars and lots of other stuff too. I’m sure I can tackle most of the immediate needs. However the ‘removal of the 4.2’ to do chain tensioners has me puckered. I’m fortunate to have my b6 a4 Avant while the S4 would be in my garage for allllllllll the work from engine to control arms.

This particular S4 is stock which gets me excited but worried because it hasn’t been used by a fast n furious kid but the scheduled maintenance has probably fallen through cracks... it has 150k so I’m worried I’ll get to 152k before I have to rip it apart $$


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I am at 172k on original clock, doing mine in a month or two. Here is some help if you need.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...V9zODlGbW9mMzQ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...ldtSERMWEp6ZWM

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...jFKcG9qRzEwX2M

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ATED-July-2017

[mad70sx]

it has 150k

2 things to consider....

1) Early build B6's (10/04 date code or earlier, iirc) were much more likely to have chain/guide issues than the B7. I believe by the time the B7 came about, the guides and timing components were upgrade due to the wear issues associated with the plastic guides on the early B6's.

2) @ 150K, I would hazard to guess the issue would have come up already. The one you are looking at could (and I heavily stress "could") be one that might never have this issue.

[mad70sx]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ew-PLEASE-READ

^^^ Good reading material for new B6/7 S4 owners.

[Euston]

2 things to consider....

1) Early build B6's (10/04 date code or earlier, iirc) were much more likely to have chain/guide issues than the B7. I believe by the time the B7 came about, the guides and timing components were upgrade due to the wear issues associated with the plastic guides on the early B6's.

2) @ 150K, I would hazard to guess the issue would have come up already. The one you are looking at could (and I heavily stress "could") be one that might never have this issue.

Interesting.. is there a certain VIN or something to what are the odds that it “could” be?


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[Euston]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ew-PLEASE-READ

^^^ Good reading material for new B6/7 S4 owners.

Thanks!!


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[VinnysS4]

For what it's worth, my car is a late 05 build B7. Bought it with 92k. At 100k, I had a broken chain guide.

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[Euston]

For what it's worth, my car is a late 05 build B7. Bought it with 92k. At 100k, I had a broken chain guide.

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Thanks. Did you do the work or Audi?
What did you replace? Only the guides and gaskets?


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[VinnysS4]

I did all the work.
Torque converter failed, had bad motor mounts, control arms, shocks, broken timing chain guide, bad valve seals, leaky valve cover gaskets, and a quiet exhaust, just to name a few. I ended up doing head gaskets, all chains, guides and tensioners. My mechanical camshaft adjusters looked fine except for some little spring retainers I had to replace. The control housings don't seem like a good item to throw money at because the important part is the solenoid that can be swapped for far less than what replacing the housing costs. Jhm sells different levels of timing chain kits, all are pretty spendy due to the cost of the timing chain components. I sourced all my parts from different companies for much much cheaper
The heads looked like they could benefit from a port n polish so I spent a good 60 hours doing that. I swapped it to a manual transmission in favor of replacing the torque converter and "while I was in there" rebuilding the transmission for good measure. I wanted to replace the piston rings and bearings (didn't need it, just for good measure) but they were quite spendy.

Thanks. Did you do the work or Audi?
What did you replace? Only the guides and gaskets?


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[Euston]

I did all the work.
Torque converter failed, had bad motor mounts, control arms, shocks, broken timing chain guide, bad valve seals, leaky valve cover gaskets, and a quiet exhaust, just to name a few. I ended up doing head gaskets, all chains, guides and tensioners. My mechanical camshaft adjusters looked fine except for some little spring retainers I had to replace. The control housings don't seem like a good item to throw money at because the important part is the solenoid that can be swapped for far less than what replacing the housing costs. Jhm sells different levels of timing chain kits, all are pretty spendy due to the cost of the timing chain components. I sourced all my parts from different companies for much much cheaper
The heads looked like they could benefit from a port n polish so I spent a good 60 hours doing that. I swapped it to a manual transmission in favor of replacing the torque converter and "while I was in there" rebuilding the transmission for good measure. I wanted to replace the piston rings and bearings (didn't need it, just for good measure) but they were quite spendy.

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Sweet Jesus. Did you skip Christmas for all this??


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[VinnysS4]

Hahaha pretty much. I've dumped almost 10k into it

Sweet Jesus. Did you skip Christmas for all this??


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