DSG Tune question

[ne day]

Hey Guys,

I am thinking about getting a eurodyne tune for S4, just had a question regarding the DSG tune, can i get any tunes, or stick to a specific company?

Thanks,

[Works2shoot]

Hey Guys,

I am thinking about getting a eurodyne tune for S4, just had a question regarding the DSG tune, can i get any tunes, or stick to a specific company?

Thanks,

If you check out any of the threads about DSG tunes, the general consensus appears to be that for best results, you should stick to one company for TCU/ECU. This way, you don't have them blaming each other if the car doesn't run right.

[Chris@EPL]

We will only sell our TCU tune if you are running our ECU tune. Plus if the TCU tune shift points are higher than the fueling on the ECU tune the car will not run right.

[PopTart]

Hey Guys,

I am thinking about getting a eurodyne tune for S4, just had a question regarding the DSG tune, can i get any tunes, or stick to a specific company?

Thanks,

IMO, the DSG tune is a waste of money. Unless you want Launch Control. Most people stick with a specific company. Brand Loyalty.

[USAF_Danny]

IMO, the DSG tune is a waste of money. Unless you want Launch Control. Most people stick with a specific company. Brand Loyalty.

Launch control comes stock in the car.

[blackfunk]

Launch control comes stock in the car.

2011 and newer.

[USAF_Danny]

2011 and newer.

Ah, got me there.

[onlyaudis]

yep, a DSG tune is a waste of money unless you care about smoother, faster, better shifting

[Dakkath]

yep, a DSG tune is a waste of money unless you care about smoother, faster, better shifting

Can confirm.

DSG Tune is legit AF.

[TexasDfwS4]

I see what you did and agree lol

[MN Blue S4]

yep, a DSG tune is a waste of money unless you care about smoother, faster, better shifting

And on the B8.5 you get a significantly higher redline.

[GandalfTheIbis]

Don't forget more clamping force on the clutch packs that will prevent slippage and premature wear.

[AudiS4SD]

Does a DSG tune help for daily driving habits (i.e., cruising, light driving) or more for spirited/aggressive driving? I would hate to spend money on a DSG tune if it only benefits hard driving.

[gmurom]

I'm on the EPL DSG tune along with Stage 1 ECU tune.

I've been driving my car since August '17, put like 7k+ miles being full stock and it is hella noticeable how DSG behavior had changed since flashing around 300 miles back.

The most shocking part of course is how gears became so damn long (due to raised redline).

[GandalfTheIbis]

Does a DSG tune help for daily driving habits (i.e., cruising, light driving) or more for spirited/aggressive driving? I would hate to spend money on a DSG tune if it only benefits hard driving.

I can't say for certain if this is real or perceived, but myself and others have noticed that the car downshifts to first less. The 2-1 downshift when rolling to a stop can be kind of harsh. It's a nice change. Also, at dual pulley levels the different ADS maps now make much more significant changes. In comfort mode my car feels very daily-able for an average driver. In dynamic the car is kind of tiring for me to drive around town and holds gears to RPM's where there's too much torque for say, my mom to drive the car comfortably.

[WeeKenny]

Is there much point in this on a B8? As you already have the higher red line and I believe Audi did an update to remove the first gear shunt when slowing down. Mine for example only shifts down when almost at a standstill.

[cjw]

Definitely worth the higher redline. I'm curious how much faster the TCU makes a stage 2 or DP car just from an extra 1k rpm.

4k launch control is great too, though might be too hard to hook with DP.

[97B518TQM]

Does a DSG tune help for daily driving habits (i.e., cruising, light driving) or more for spirited/aggressive driving? I would hate to spend money on a DSG tune if it only benefits hard driving.

I would hate it if someone buys one of the higher performance German cars, like a B8 S4, and never drives it aggressively to its full potential. Isn’t that what a Honda Accord is for. I don’t see the logic.


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[wangshuo1989]

I would hate it if someone buys one of the higher performance German cars, like a B8 S4, and never drives it aggressively to its full potential. Isn’t that what a Honda Accord is for. I don’t see the logic.


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Not everyone has to drive aggressively all the time.

[AudiS4SD]

Not everyone has to drive aggressively all the time.

Exactly. I don't drive like a d*** around town, thus my question (though I like courteous canyon runs when I can).

If you need to drive aggressively all the time, you should have gotten a BMW (since we all know how they drive).

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[GandalfTheIbis]

Is there much point in this on a B8? As you already have the higher red line and I believe Audi did an update to remove the first gear shunt when slowing down. Mine for example only shifts down when almost at a standstill.

Hard to say. It still either adds launch control or gives unlimited launches and increases clamping force. It doesn't make as big of a difference as it does on an B8.5, but I'd like to say there are still some worthwhile changes.

[WeeKenny]

Hard to say. It still either adds launch control or gives unlimited launches and increases clamping force. It doesn't make as big of a difference as it does on an B8.5, but I'd like to say there are still some worthwhile changes.

I don’t drag race so launch control wouldn’t sway me.

The APR website doesn’t mention clamping force on the blurb for the S4 application I seem to remember a thread about clamping force and S4 tunes raise the torque limits but don’t alter the clamping force.

[GandalfTheIbis]

Then it sounds like it's probably not worth it for you/to you. I also may just be trying to justify my purchase in my own mind. Hard to say. I recently made an a bunch of additional changes and am feeling relatively underwhelmed with the current state of my car. If I could have learned what I know without spending the money I would probably not have gone dual pulley or TCU. It's hard to know what it's worth to me without some objective measures.

[WeeKenny]

I know what you mean, I previously had a manual S4 with APR tune and a S/C pulley, air box and exhaust. From that I know this time I’ll only go as far as a single pulley tune and I’ve gone drop in filter with silicone intake pipe and a modified air box. I’ve been lucky to get a second go.

[TexasDfwS4]

It does help even on DD. As soon as I got the TCU tune even my wife said WOW buttery smooth. She had the 12 Q5 3.2 six speed auto and the S4 was worse then it before the tune. Her new 17 Q5 3.0 with the ZF8 still isn't as smooth as the S4. and yes it's great if your in the mood for a race as well.

[handruin]

I can't say for certain if this is real or perceived, but myself and others have noticed that the car downshifts to first less. The 2-1 downshift when rolling to a stop can be kind of harsh. It's a nice change. Also, at dual pulley levels the different ADS maps now make much more significant changes. In comfort mode my car feels very daily-able for an average driver. In dynamic the car is kind of tiring for me to drive around town and holds gears to RPM's where there's too much torque for say, my mom to drive the car comfortably.

My stock 2015 holds 2nd gear in stop & go during a rolling stop. For the car to shift to 1st I have to be stopped for roughly 1-2 seconds. This might be a newer software change from Audi.

[Bartlett]

I'm on Unitronic's ECU and TCU tunes and when I was just running the ECU tune, the car was definitely slower overall. I think the TCU tune enables the ECU to run a more aggressive map.

[Audi Advocate]

IMO, the DSG tune is a waste of money. Unless you want Launch Control. Most people stick with a specific company. Brand Loyalty.

I must disagree. I installed a Stage 1+ Unitronic tune last August in my 2012 S4. This car is a different machine. I had no idea that all of us are driving "dumbed down" S4's if they are stock. From the factory they expect the average Joe not to use the full capacity of this engine and to use shitty fuel occasionally. The tune and better octane fuel gives me 414HP from 333. (Canadian model). I wish I had not waited this long. This goes for both street driving and occasional track. It's brought the engine to life with better acceleration, throttle response and gearing. Don't take my word for it - ask others or better yet as a qualified Tuner (mine was PFAFF Tuning in Toronto).

[Venumous]

I must disagree. I installed a Stage 1+ Unitronic tune last August in my 2012 S4. This car is a different machine. I had no idea that all of us are driving "dumbed down" S4's if they are stock. From the factory they expect the average Joe not to use the full capacity of this engine and to use shitty fuel occasionally. The tune and better octane fuel gives me 414HP from 333. (Canadian model). I wish I had not waited this long. This goes for both street driving and occasional track. It's brought the engine to life with better acceleration, throttle response and gearing. Don't take my word for it - ask others or better yet as a qualified Tuner (mine was PFAFF Tuning in Toronto).

Why is there no "fail" emoji...?

[4DOORFUN]

Then it sounds like it's probably not worth it for you/to you. I also may just be trying to justify my purchase in my own mind. Hard to say. I recently made an a bunch of additional changes and am feeling relatively underwhelmed with the current state of my car. If I could have learned what I know without spending the money I would probably not have gone dual pulley or TCU. It's hard to know what it's worth to me without some objective measures.

I appreciate this honest feedback. What is it that you dislike or regret about going dual pulley or TCU?

[TristanT14]

I just tuned my 2014 S4 yesterday with Unitronic Stage 1+ and TCU stage 2. It is amazing! Feels like a completely new car! TCU tune definitely worth it because it just keeps pulling and pulling.

[GandalfTheIbis]

I appreciate this honest feedback. What is it that you dislike or regret about going dual pulley or TCU?

My disappointment is mostly in regard to dual pulley. I went straight from stock to stage 2 and found the additional torque really improved the car. I drove it that way for about a year and a half before going dual pulley. My pulley combo is 189/57 and I have more supporting mods than most and the car just doesn't feel like it has much more torque than it did as a stage 2 car. I wish I would have left it at a pulley and tune and saved the rest of the money towards a better platform. "Stage 2" is kind of the sweet spot and really all the low hanging fruit that you can get before moving on to a different car. Dual pulley and the potentially necessary supporting mods make it a pretty low return per dollar in my opinion. I also have GIAC.

[BozMan-S4]

Seems if you ask the engine to behave different you would want the trans to behave different to sync up. I have EPL ECU/TCU and both performance and shifting has changed for the better after the tune. I’m not going on technical data just observation...but logic leads me to believe ECU/TCU makes sense vs just ECU.


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[BozMan-S4]

My disappointment is mostly in regard to dual pulley. I went straight from stock to stage 2 and found the additional torque really improved the car. I drove it that way for about a year and a half before going dual pulley. My pulley combo is 189/57 and I have more supporting mods than most and the car just doesn't feel like it has much more torque than it did as a stage 2 car. I wish I would have left it at a pulley and tune and saved the rest of the money towards a better platform. "Stage 2" is kind of the sweet spot and really all the low hanging fruit that you can get before moving on to a different car. Dual pulley and the potentially necessary supporting mods make it a pretty low return per dollar in my opinion. I also have GIAC.

What are you considering supporting mods for DP? I haven’t gone DP yet due to many saying they wish they stayed at stage 2. I assume Cooling is one of them. I went with the foundational mods first so I might already be ready for DP.


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[GandalfTheIbis]

Cooling, intake, autotech hpfp, potentially complex lpfp solution, test pipes(insane labor costs), replacement supercharger intercoolers. These are all roads you may find yourself needing to go down unexpectedly. While the buy in cost of dual pulley isn’t much at all, you could potentially need any or all of these things to keep your car’s former level of drivability.

I might even go as far as to say an ethanol content analyzer and ported supercharger if you’re looking to really maximize performance on your setup as a daily driver.

I wasn’t logging on my stage 2 setup so I don’t know if there were benefits I could have seen for anything except cooling, but now that I’m dual pulley I’m engaging in all of those mods except the lpfp and the ECA.


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[BozMan-S4]

Cooling, intake, autotech hpfp, potentially complex lpfp solution, test pipes(insane labor costs), replacement supercharger intercoolers. These are all roads you may find yourself needing to go down unexpectedly. While the buy in cost of dual pulley isn’t much at all, you could potentially need any or all of these things to keep your car’s former level of drivability.

I might even go as far as to say an ethanol content analyzer and ported supercharger if you’re looking to really maximize performance on your setup as a daily driver.

I wasn’t logging on my stage 2 setup so I don’t know if there were benefits I could have seen for anything except cooling, but now that I’m dual pulley I’m engaging in all of those mods except the lpfp and the ECA.


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Or maybe not ready then. I was considering the HPFP already but only read LPFP on GIAC threads. I forgot about the SC intercoolers, I’ve read a few threads about that now that you mention it. To your point 2-3k in additional mods (not including SC Hx) and depending on who does the work. Then up to $700.00 for crank Pulley plus for me $250 tune upgrade. That paints a pretty good picture. If you don’t have suspension mods, braking upgrade or SC Hx you could be talking 6-7k+ all in. Good call out!

I have been modding fast sense I bought the car 5-6 months ago. I try not to look at the receipts but I bet I’m 12-14k in already....which is crazy when I read that. So to drop another 3K+ on top of my current mods the gains would have to be pretty great.

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[BozMan-S4]

I’m driving a 40k 2011 car lol.... I actually bought this as a winter car for AWD and still want to hold on to my cool factor. I fell in love with it and now I need a winter car again haha


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[GandalfTheIbis]

Yes, the LPFP is something that I think you’ll get away without if you stay to a lower pulley ratio or don’t port the charger. Both those things increase airflow which of course requires more fuel.

I’m not saying “oh you definitely need all this stuff.” But if you set out with a goal to max out your tune... you could probably benefit from all that stuff. And frankly, you need to be prepared to do some of it just in case. Intercoolers and cats are both failure points at any stage, so one could then argue that those are “maintenance” costs on these cars the way one could argue that the timing chain guides on the 4.2L v8 are maintenance costs.


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[MSq5]

Cooling, intake, autotech hpfp, potentially complex lpfp solution, test pipes(insane labor costs), replacement supercharger intercoolers. These are all roads you may find yourself needing to go down unexpectedly. While the buy in cost of dual pulley isn’t much at all, you could potentially need any or all of these things to keep your car’s former level of drivability.

I might even go as far as to say an ethanol content analyzer and ported supercharger if you’re looking to really maximize performance on your setup as a daily driver.

I wasn’t logging on my stage 2 setup so I don’t know if there were benefits I could have seen for anything except cooling, but now that I’m dual pulley I’m engaging in all of those mods except the lpfp and the ECA.


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I thought the upgraded Autotech HPFP was only needed if running high ethanol levels, above what you might get from 3 gallons of E85 added to 93 octane. I'm stage 2 with relatively low pulley ratio (single pulley 179 crank pulley). I was considering upping the ratio with a bigger crank pulley and more efficient cooling, but will be sticking with 93 octane. Do I really need the Autotech HPFP upgrade?

[GandalfTheIbis]

I almost wrote a supplemental post on that but decided to delete it earlier as I’m truly not sure at what point the autotech rod for the hpfp could be needed. You are correct that the most common use for the autotech is by those blending ethanol content.

If you are sticking with a pump file and 93 then I don’t think you’d need the HPFP mod. I’m running a 189/57mm combo on the GIAC race file with Sunoco 260 GT and my fuel pressures are fine and I’ve not yet installed my autotech rod.

If you are running e85 mixes and are wondering if you need the HPFP mod I really think the best way to determine this is through logging. Do your pulley ratio increase and then log with e85 mixes to determine how much you need to run to minimize your timing correction. Then if your fuel rail pressure actual is within a healthy range of your fuel rail pressure actual for the amount of ethanol you want to run you don’t need the HPFP mod. If you are running an ethanol content that causes larger fluctuations between actual and specified then I think the HPFP is the first logical step.



If you are only planning to run a pump file and keep a relatively conservative ratio then I think you can nix a lot of those “supporting upgrades” from your list. That is mostly an “I want to max out my tune” list for guys who are caught up in chasing these high trap speeds that we see from some of the hero cars on this forum.

With a more conservative pulley ratio I think you could get by with just cooling and an intake, but I’d still recommend you be financially prepared to handle any issues that arise from your supercharger intercoolers or catalytic converters.


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