Why are flash tunes so expensive on this platform?

[AFR1485]

I disagree. I ran the CW for a year before I flashed the ECU and it was very good for the money. Stage 2/ single pulley. I even tracked it 4 times that year (road course)

Bought it used on our forum and when I was done with it, I resold it on the forum. Curious, did you ever run the CW?

Not on my car, but it was on my buddies car for a while. I drove it and saw the over boost errors from it. It’s certainly a cheaper way to get more power, but when you have ~$40-$50k car it seems silly complain about the price difference between the piggy and a flash tune.

Piggy will make power, but a flash tune will perform better. The piggy is fine for the money.



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[SteveYem]

Not on my car, but it was on my buddies car for a while. I drove it and saw the over boost errors from it. It’s certainly a cheaper way to get more power, but when you have ~$40-$50k car it seems silly complain about the price difference between the piggy and a flash tune.

Piggy will make power, but a flash tune will perform better. The piggy is fine for the money.



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I used a Chipwerke S for a little while before I sold it and flashed to EPL Stage 1. In a way, the Chipwerke piggyback was a more apparent performance boost than the ECU flashed tune, because of how relatively crudely it integrates with the stock programming. In other words, I could regularly feel the Chipwerke "kick in", whereas the ECU tune feels like a much smoother torque curve.

[SR7D1]

I used a Chipwerke S for a little while before I sold it and flashed to EPL Stage 1. In a way, the Chipwerke piggyback was a more apparent performance boost than the ECU flashed tune, because of how relatively crudely it integrates with the stock programming. In other words, I could regularly feel the Chipwerke "kick in", whereas the ECU tune feels like a much smoother torque curve.

Unless you have a GIAC flash, it's still not smooth! LOL. But I agree totally on the throttle tip in with the CW.

[steampunkjunker]

Not on my car, but it was on my buddies car for a while. I drove it and saw the over boost errors from it. It’s certainly a cheaper way to get more power, but when you have ~$40-$50k car it seems silly complain about the price difference between the piggy and a flash tune.

Piggy will make power, but a flash tune will perform better. The piggy is fine for the money.



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Would you spend $100 on tire valve caps because you have an expensive car. I totally don’t agree with this logic on S4 tunes. And my 2013 S4 certainly isn’t worth $60k. Next time I’d consider a piggyback unit for sure.


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[badazzstang]

Would you spend $100 on tire valve caps because you have an expensive car. I totally don’t agree with this logic on S4 tunes. And my 2013 S4 certainly isn’t worth $60k. Next time I’d consider a piggyback unit for sure.


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I agree. It blows my mind that part companies have zero push back about not putting out coupon codes and what not. My company wouldn't make as good of numbers without coupon codes flying around. ECS does a good job with putting new items on sale but I am surprise that there is not even an option for a coupon anywhere. Not even an option for one. My company is very similar to ECS as far as manufacturing our own parts, and the type of items we sell.

[TEB]

I agree. It blows my mind that part companies have zero push back about not putting out coupon codes and what not. My company wouldn't make as good of numbers without coupon codes flying around. ECS does a good job with putting new items on sale but I am surprise that there is not even an option for a coupon anywhere. Not even an option for one. My company is very similar to ECS as far as manufacturing our own parts, and the type of items we sell.

Unitronics is 10% off right now, FWIW.

[AFR1485]

Would you spend $100 on tire valve caps because you have an expensive car. I totally don’t agree with this logic on S4 tunes. And my 2013 S4 certainly isn’t worth $60k. Next time I’d consider a piggyback unit for sure.


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Sorry I wasn’t clear with my “expense car point”. I paid $24k for my 2014 S4.

The expensive car refers to the higher cost of maintenance and parts. The parts for my car will be more than parts for a $25k Honda. This includes the work to create a tune for this platform. EPL already explained the work it took to crack the VAG ECU.

Everyone loves capitalism until they need to pay the price.


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[steampunkjunker]

You mean other than the competing piggyback devices that cost 1/3 the price for stage 2?

[MSq5]

You mean other than the competing piggyback devices that cost 1/3 the price for stage 2?

I realize I am in an S4 thread. I have a Q5 3.0T (mods in my sig). I ran, or TRIED to run CW. It made good power, but was abrupt, jerky and did not play well with the 8 speed ZF we run, especially causing huge lag at random times and always on part throttle upshifts.

EPL's tune is smooth and consistent everywhere, every gear, every throttle position, not just at WOT. A lot of R&D to get that, on top of cracking the ECU and making great max power. I'm sure APR, GIAC, Unitronics, 034 and other real tuners have similar time invested in making their tunes work well for daily driving with all transmissions available for the engine.

Maybe if you have a 6MT CW should work fine, as you are controlling gear selection and shift points. CW is blind about such things.

[blackfunk]

I realize I am in an S4 thread. I have a Q5 3.0T (mods in my sig). I ran, or TRIED to run CW. It made good power, but was abrupt, jerky and did not play well with the 8 speed ZF we run, especially causing huge lag at random times and always on part throttle upshifts.

EPL's tune is smooth and consistent everywhere, every gear, every throttle position, not just at WOT. A lot of R&D to get that, on top of cracking the ECU and making great max power. I'm sure APR, GIAC, Unitronics, 034 and other real tuners have similar time invested in making their tunes work well for daily driving with all transmissions available for the engine.

Maybe if you have a 6MT CW should work fine, as you are controlling gear selection and shift points. CW is blind about such things.

Being devils advocate here - and I also run EPL. I'm not sure that the OP's question is being addressed. CW should really have no bearing on this discussion. The question is should tunes cost as much as they do on a mature platform on an engine that is EOL for all intents.

[MSq5]

Being devils advocate here - and I also run EPL. I'm not sure that the OP's question is being addressed. CW should really have no bearing on this discussion. The question is should tunes cost as much as they do on a mature platform on an engine that is EOL for all intents.

My point is that CW is cheaper because no attempt is made to provide part throttle and daily drive shifting smoothness. Good ECU tunes (and TCU tunes) take a lot of R&D time and resources to crack our complex code and not only tune for WOT power but for smoothness under all operating conditions. We also have had more than one type of ECU, and Audi keeps reflashing them with changes, making tuners have to adjust, especially those who provide flash back to stock capability.

[PopTart]

Why don't you complain about Exhaust prices? $1400 for an extra 80HP is worth it.

[mercedesinfarct]

It's cheaper than that. During a sale you can get a GIAC flash at home kit for less than $1100. The people who are shitting on these tunes better not have any sort of full catback exhaust system. That would be..you know..hypocritical.