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  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Aug 02 2017
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    Columbus, OH

    NEED HELP! Classic S4 Starting/Cranking Problems

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    I've spent a ton of time searching the forums and doing research on this but I'm still not exactly sure which way to go first. Any help would be appreciated.

    When I bought my 2005.5 B7 S4 about 9 months ago it would start up just fine when cold. But if you drove it somewhere and then parked it for a short time, it would have trouble re-starting while hot. I never had to actually wait for it to cool down because it would always still start after a couple attempts at cranking it for about 5 seconds each time. I know I should have addressed the problem then, but I just didn't. It did the same thing for many months but would always start eventually.

    About 3 months ago the problem got a little worse. It would just randomly have trouble firing up. The difference between hot starts and cold starts became much less noticeable. Sometimes it would fire right up and sometimes I'd have to crank it two or three times. The pattern became almost indistinguishable and the problem seemed completely random.

    Now, in the last few weeks, the problem has gotten to the point where I have to address it ASAP. I'm worried one day it won't start at all and I will be stranded somewhere. It now needs multiple cranking attempts whether hot or cold. Every time pretty much. And now it takes sometimes 4 or 5 attempts before it fires. However, the car starts every time eventually. So far. It has also started to kind of burble and sputter a bit when it is about to fire up. I can sometimes give it some gas right then and it will catch and fire up. Other times it won't but it will fire up on the next cranking attempt.

    I have no check engine light on at all. My traction control light occasionally randomly comes on while driving, usually at slow speeds in traffic. I am pretty sure I hear my fuel pump priming when I turn the car on. Today I tried to turn the key on, give it 5 seconds to prime, and then cranking it but it didn't seem to help. The car runs absolutely amazing once it is started. No problems at all and I am actually amazed how good this old car runs! Lots of power and no misfires or even idling inconsistencies. This is purely a starting issue as of right now. I have not checked codes yet but I will do that tomorrow (I had been thinking I wouldn't get any because I wasn't getting a check engine light, but I think I was wrong). My car has a JHM tune, piggy pipes, Magnaflow catback exhaust but all of that was done about 2 months after I bought the car and the problem had already been present and didn't get any worse after the install. Car has 118,000 miles, never had chains done, and has very minimal rattle at start up.

    From my research so far, I'm thinking either Crankshaft Position Sensor, Fuel Filter, or Fuel Pump. Maybe a combination of those. Not sure if I should start with the CPS (how hard to replace?) or the Fuel Filter first, but need to figure this out ASAP. Any suggestions or similar experience? I appreciate any advice very much.

    UPDATE 4/24/2018- I ran up to Advance Auto and borrowed their scanner to see what codes this thing may be throwing. A BUNCH of codes showed up, but I have never scanned this thing so who knows how long some have been there and what is causing them. Anyway, here they are:
    (P0037): O2 Sensor Heater Contr. Circ.(Bank1(1)Sensor 2) Low
    (P0057): O2 Sensor Heater Contr. Circ.(Bank2 Sensor 2) Low
    (P0261): Cylinder 1- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0264): Cylinder 2- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0267): Cylinder 3- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0270): Cylinder 4- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0273): Cylinder 5- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0276): Cylinder 6- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0279): Cylinder 7- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0282): Cylinder 8- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0458): Evaporation Emissions Sensor- Purge Control Valve Circuit Low
    (P0141): O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank- 1 Sensor 2
    (P0161): O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank- 2 Sensor 2
    (P2401): Leak Detection Pump
    (P2257): Secondary Air Injection
    (P0102): Mass or Volume Air Flow
    (P0414)

    UPDATE 5/11/2018

    So the day after my last post my car completely shut off/stalled on the freeway on the way home. It would not restart. I tried MANY times. Stranded and not willing to tow the car back to my house hoping I could figure out the problem, I decided to take it to the pros. Had my car towed to my local indy shop. They called the next day and said it needed a new fuel pump. So I had them install a new OEM fuel pump and fuel filter for good measure.

    I picked it up a few days later and she ran great. But right away I noticed I was still having the same old hot start issues. After stopping briefly at a store or gas station, the car takes a couple cranks to fire up. It is much better than it was and almost always fires up on the second crank. It is almost like my problem has receded back to when I first bought the car, but it's still there. Really weird. I have to think I have always had this undiagnosed problem and then coincidentally my fuel pump also went. Now that that is fixed I am back to my original hot start problem. Problems related? Any ideas? Car runs and drives awesome but I'd like to get this little issue fixed if possible... the car would be perfect then. Thanks, guys.
    Last edited by Hollywood33; 05-14-2018 at 05:46 AM.
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings a4lownslow's Avatar
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    Feb 12 2014
    AZ Member #
    144887
    My Garage
    2007 Audi A4 2.0T
    Location
    Hudson WI

    Crank sensor or fuel filter were the first things that came to my mind. Definitely get your hands on vagcom and do a scan. You can have stored codes and no CEL.

    Crank sensor is held in with one bolt and replacement itself is easy, the lack of space can make it a little challenging. I think a telescoping mirror came in handy when I did mine. I was able to get it from above.


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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
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    Nov 12 2015
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    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    There are a couple relays under the ecu that go bad and cause this condition. Not exactly easy to get to on the fly unless you have a long t30.
    A crank position sensor could also cause this condition. Do you have VCDS? You are obviously missing some type of input while this happens. I know it might be hard or inconvenient to do on the fly, but if you could boot up vcds and check for crank position signal when this happens, that would rule that out. Look hard at the RPM gauge, do the RPMs bounce up and down about 100 or 200 RPMs while you're cranking? This usually means you have crank signal. This isn't a foolproof method, but it does work on most cars. Also, does the check engine illuminate when you turn the key on while problem presents itself? I ask because if you are getting a no communication from the ECU, the check engine light will not illuminate when you turn the key on.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Audizine mobile app
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

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    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  4. #4
    Registered User Two Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 03 2018
    AZ Member #
    416545
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA

    Indeed, as already said, get the codes first with VCDS/ODIS/similar, might help a ton.


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  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 02 2017
    AZ Member #
    404187
    Location
    Columbus, OH

    UPDATE 4/24/2018- I ran up to Advance Auto and borrowed their scanner to see what codes this thing may be throwing. A BUNCH of codes showed up, but I have never scanned this thing so who knows how long some have been there and what is causing them. Anyway, here they are:
    (P0037): O2 Sensor Heater Contr. Circ.(Bank1(1)Sensor 2) Low
    (P0057): O2 Sensor Heater Contr. Circ.(Bank2 Sensor 2) Low
    (P0261): Cylinder 1- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0264): Cylinder 2- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0267): Cylinder 3- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0270): Cylinder 4- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0273): Cylinder 5- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0276): Cylinder 6- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0279): Cylinder 7- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0282): Cylinder 8- Injector Circuit Low
    (P0458): Evaporation Emissions Sensor- Purge Control Valve Circuit Low
    (P0141): O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank- 1 Sensor 2
    (P0161): O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank- 2 Sensor 2
    (P2401): Leak Detection Pump
    (P2257): Secondary Air Injection
    (P0102): Mass or Volume Air Flow
    (P0414)

    Ideas?
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  6. #6
    Registered User Two Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 03 2018
    AZ Member #
    416545
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA, USA

    NEED HELP! Classic S4 Starting/Cranking Problems

    It appears that many things have been done to the car with some/ all of the above disconnected and the ECU has stored all the codes. If you have the details of each (eg whether it’s intermittent/confirmed/etc, frequency, first appearance) you can quickly rule some/most out (VCDS shows this for sure). If you don’t have these best would be to clear all codes, start the engine for a minute, check codes again, if none, drive it for a bit until it doesn’t start again and then check the codes and post here (ideally with all details for each code).


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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jdsb6s4's Avatar
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    Aug 27 2016
    AZ Member #
    379456
    My Garage
    GL450, GLA250
    Location
    Seattle

    It almost sounds like you and I have the same issues. When you go to start your car does it make the attempt to turn over with the starter is is it a single click sound in engine bay?

  8. #8
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 02 2017
    AZ Member #
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    Location
    Columbus, OH

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdsb6s4 View Post
    It almost sounds like you and I have the same issues. When you go to start your car does it make the attempt to turn over with the starter is is it a single click sound in engine bay?
    Mine turns over fine but just won't fire up right away. It seems like I have plenty of battery power but engine just won't start right away. Definitely feels like some sort of fueling issue.
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood33 View Post
    Mine turns over fine but just won't fire up right away. It seems like I have plenty of battery power but engine just won't start right away. Definitely feels like some sort of fueling issue.
    This sounds more like an evap iaaue

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

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    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  10. #10
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 02 2017
    AZ Member #
    404187
    Location
    Columbus, OH

    UPDATE 5/11/2018

    So the day after my last post my car completely shut off/stalled on the freeway on the way home. It would not restart. I tried MANY times. Stranded and not willing to tow the car back to my house hoping I could figure out the problem, I decided to take it to the pros. Had my car towed to my local indy shop. They called the next day and said it needed a new fuel pump. So I had them install a new OEM fuel pump and fuel filter for good measure.

    I picked it up a few days later and she ran great. But right away I noticed I was still having the same old hot start issues. After stopping briefly at a store or gas station, the car takes a couple cranks to fire up. It is much better than it was and almost always fires up on the second crank. It is almost like my problem has receded back to when I first bought the car, but it's still there. Really weird. I have to think I have always had this undiagnosed problem and then coincidentally my fuel pump also went. Now that that is fixed I am back to my original hot start problem. Problems related? Any ideas? Car runs and drives awesome but I'd like to get this little issue fixed if possible... the car would be perfect then. Thanks, guys.
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    I'd smoke the evap system. Check the solenoids with a scanner. You could also throw an inline fuel pressure tester to see if you completely drop fuel pressure when this happends

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4ski's Avatar
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    Jul 01 2013
    AZ Member #
    118188
    My Garage
    2005 S4 Avant, Skiis
    Location
    Anchorage, AK

    I'm having a similar problem and has been dogging me for months. Car starts every time in the morning, but idles a little rough. Then intermittently afterwards starts hard. Temperature doesn't seem to matter. It's never failed to start. Like OP, thinking fuel system. Had single event of cutting out while driving with low tank in cold weather, but may have been condensation, codes showed low fuel mixture.

    Fuel pump and filter replaced, twice. Shop did the second on warranty. We're thinking to check pressure as Vinny suggested. Any chance it is contamination in the fuel tank?

  13. #13
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by s4ski View Post
    I'm having a similar problem and has been dogging me for months. Car starts every time in the morning, but idles a little rough. Then intermittently afterwards starts hard. Temperature doesn't seem to matter. It's never failed to start. Like OP, thinking fuel system. Had single event of cutting out while driving with low tank in cold weather, but may have been condensation, codes showed low fuel mixture.

    Fuel pump and filter replaced, twice. Shop did the second on warranty. We're thinking to check pressure as Vinny suggested. Any chance it is contamination in the fuel tank?
    Interesting. It's just such a weird, sporadic issue. My car is starting 10X better now with the new fuel pump and filter, but occasionally still has issues. When I first picked it up from the shop, it would need a couple cranks on every hot start. The last couple days it has been starting up just fine every time whether hot or cold. I'm hoping for a miracle and it is just gone now, haha. I freaking love this car though and I'll keep it forever.
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  14. #14
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 02 2017
    AZ Member #
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    Location
    Columbus, OH

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnysS4 View Post
    I'd smoke the evap system. Check the solenoids with a scanner. You could also throw an inline fuel pressure tester to see if you completely drop fuel pressure when this happends

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    Appreciate all the help. I will try these things soon and report back. I have to admit though, I am less motivated to find the problem now that the car runs fine and the issues are so sporadic and minor. Would obviously still like to get it fixed though if possible.
    Brilliant Red B7 S4- JHM tune, RS4 Magnaflow exhaust, piggie pipes, peelers
    Brilliant Black B8 S4- Neuspeed RSe14

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
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    Oct 05 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood33 View Post
    Interesting. It's just such a weird, sporadic issue. My car is starting 10X better now with the new fuel pump and filter, but occasionally still has issues. When I first picked it up from the shop, it would need a couple cranks on every hot start. The last couple days it has been starting up just fine every time whether hot or cold. I'm hoping for a miracle and it is just gone now, haha. I freaking love this car though and I'll keep it forever.
    Mine as well, but on my 2.7 allroad, new pump (2nd) fuel filter, fuel line inside engine bay, plugs and packs all new. Always starts, just occasionally really long at times, sometimes right away, temperature has nothing to do with it. New battery..

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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4ski's Avatar
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    Jul 01 2013
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    2005 S4 Avant, Skiis
    Location
    Anchorage, AK

    Just for the books, checked pressure and it was indeed off. Replaced filter/pressure regulator and runs like a top now.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
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    Nov 12 2015
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    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
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    Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by s4ski View Post
    Just for the books, checked pressure and it was indeed off. Replaced filter/pressure regulator and runs like a top now.
    Soo.... 3rd time is a charm then? What's different with the 3rd filter that went in?



    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings s4ski's Avatar
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    Jul 01 2013
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    My Garage
    2005 S4 Avant, Skiis
    Location
    Anchorage, AK

    The tech didn't do the filter the second time, so my misunderstanding. Second filter replacement fixed it.

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