Initial review: Navtv zen-v digital interface for Audi sound systems

[OlyS6]

For anyone looking to create their own aftermarket sound system in MY2016 and later Audis, navtv just released their zen-v digital interface this past week.

https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT860/zen-v.html

I had a chance to install it this past weekend, and it works extremely well.

This box takes the fiberoptic signal from the MMI, and can send a clean full-range digital fiberoptic signal or 12 different analog outputs to an aftermarket digital signal processor.

Important things to note: This is currently the only digital interface on the market for Audi's/Porsche and VWs with the newer MOST150 fiberoptic system, allowing you to remove the factory amplifier, but to keep full functionality of the MMI.

Installation was pretty simple, and allowed me to use a single fiberoptic toslink cable to send the pure digital signal to my DSP, eliminating my factory amp and the need to send all my speaker out wires from that amp to the DSP.

A great aspect to this setup is that I now have a pure digital signal going from the MMI to the digital interface and to the DSP, without any noise introduced into the setup.

At $1299 it's quite expensive, but allows the flexibility to do whatever you desire with any DSP and your choice of aftermarket amplifiers.

Of note, the owner of Arc Audio recently won an international sound competition using a similar navtv digital interface with his stock Cadillac head unit, an impressive feat.

It's also small, enabling me to fit it in the driver side cubby with both an aftermarket amplifier and my DSP with plenty of room:



If you have a pre-facelift car, you can do many of the same things with either a Mobridge DA1 or Audison Bit-DMI, at half the price.

[Joe'sS6]

Is this still the only real solution for C7.5 cars? Too expensive.

I wonder if other manufacturers will chime in with other products to get rid of the P.O.S. Bose Amp!

[Dirt]

I hope so. I still have most of the components from my S4 sitting in boxes.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Joe'sS6,

I think this is the only plug-n-play solution that allows full digital integration to our MMI at this point. After I did the sub in my car, I started looking into front speaker replacement, power and processing; and, I did a good bit of reading at that time (this spring shortly after I purchased my 2018). I couldn't find anything more simple. Still, if you go this route, you're in for (1) speakers, (2) ZenV, (3) DSP, and (4) Amp/Amp(s).

There are other options, however. Look for S4per's audio build. I don't have the specifics in mind at the moment, but I believe he's using a combination of analog/speaker level connections to LOC/DSP and then to power and then to speakers with great success.

My head was spinning with all the details, and I put the sound system on pause but moved on to other "upgrades". When you get this figured out, please update us all.

[OlyS6]

So, if you have a MY2016 or later car, yes, the navtv zen-v box is currently the only digital integration box available from ANY manufacturer. That said, you can get great sound taking the line-out speaker wires from the OEM amp and plug them into the inputs on a DSP, and then go from the DSP into your aftermarket amp(s). You can use the DSP to correct for the wonkiness of the OEM amp, but still maintain all functionality of your head-unit (MMI) this way. I did this for about 18 months until the zen-v came out. Mostly it was a philosophical thing- I hated the fact that I was going from digital-analog-digital-analog. It still sounded great. I have to say that this zen-v box is outstanding (and yes, expensive)- I was very happy to get rid of my OEM amp, (gave room for other stuff in the driver cubby), and introduces no noticeable distortion or floor noise, and allows you to keep all MMI functionality. Now I have a purely digital signal from the head unit to the zen-v to my DSP, until it is converted to analog and sent to my amplifiers.

Sadly, neither Mobridge nor Audison (who make the bit-DMI, essentially the same product as the Mobridge) have any plans to pursue digital interfaces for our cars.

S4Per has a a MY13 car, and was able to use a Mobridge DA-1 box, which does the same thing as the zen-v, but only works for MY2015 or earlier vehicles. For MY2016, Audi switched to a MOST 150 fiberoptic ring system in all VAG vehicles. They used a different fiberoptic system for all earlier model years.

[wwhan]

So, if you have a MY2016 or later car, yes, the navtv zen-v box is currently the only digital integration box available from ANY manufacturer.....

It is odd that the webpage lists Audi/S3 2015-2018 2017-2018 S6, but NO listing for 2016 S6 on the webpage

""Audi/S3 2015-2018 USA, Rest of World, Europe AUDI MIB, MIB HS, MIB2
Audi/S4 2017-2018 USA, Rest of World, Europe AUDI MIB, MIB HS, MIB2
Audi/S5 2017-2018 USA, Rest of World, Europe AUDI MIB, MIB HS, MIB2
Audi/S6 2017-2018 USA, Rest of World, Europe AUDI MIB, MIB HS, MIB2
Audi/S7 2017-2018 USA, Rest of World, Europe AUDI MIB, MIB HS, MIB2""

[OlyS6]

Agree. The initial software for our cars in MY2016 has a bit different security that 2017 and later, although it is the exact same MIB2 head-unit. Nav-tv worked with me for a few weeks to update their onboard firmware, so that it works well for MY2016 as well, with no need to update the software/firmware on the car (about an $800 procedure at the dealership, which I was luckily able to avoid- the head programmer at nav-tv was very generous in his time and revising the firmware for the box itself remotely). With the revisions done this past May, it will work right out of the box on MY2016 vehicles. It has been working flawlessly on my 2016 S6 without hiccups since May.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

So, if you have a MY2016 or later car, yes, the navtv zen-v box is currently the only digital integration box available from ANY manufacturer. That said, you can get great sound taking the line-out speaker wires from the OEM amp and plug them into the inputs on a DSP, and then go from the DSP into your aftermarket amp(s). You can use the DSP to correct for the wonkiness of the OEM amp, but still maintain all functionality of your head-unit (MMI) this way. I did this for about 18 months until the zen-v came out. Mostly it was a philosophical thing- I hated the fact that I was going from digital-analog-digital-analog. It still sounds good. I have to say that this zen-v box is outstanding (and yes, expensive)- I was very happy to get rid of my OEM amp, (gave room for other stuff in the driver cubby), and introduces no noticeable distortion or floor noise, and allows you to keep all MMI functionality.

Sadly, neither Mobridge or Audison (who make the bit-DMI, essentially the same product as the Mobridge) have no plans to pursue digital interfaces for our cars.

S4Per has a a MY13 car, and was able to use a Mobridge DA-1 box, which does the same thing as the zen-v, but only works for MY2015 or earlier vehicles. For MY2016, Audi switched to a MOST 150 fiberoptic ring system in all VAG vehicles. They used a different fiberoptic system for all earlier model years.

Super great explanation as always OlyS6..


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[Joe'sS6]

Agree. The initial software for our cars in MY2016 has a bit different security that 2017 and later, although it is the exact same MIB2 head-unit. Nav-tv worked with me for a few weeks to update their onboard firmware, so that it works well for MY2016 as well, with no need to update the software/firmware on the car (about an $800 procedure at the dealership, which I was luckily able to avoid- the head programmer at nav-tv was very generous in his time and revising the firmware for the box itself remotely). With the revisions done this past May, it will work right out of the box on MY2016 vehicles. It has been working flawlessly on my 2016 S6 without hiccups since May.

I ordered the Zen-V, it has not arrived yet, but they have already sent the update software, so I hope it all works out just fine.


OlyS6:

With the Zen-V Did you connect the CENTER front speaker? If not, how does the phone bluetooth work? Just from the Front L&R signals? Also please, do you know if the six FRONT 3R+3L RCA output are all full range?

Thank you.

[OlyS6]

I ordered the Zen-V, it has not arrived yet, but they have already sent the update software, so I hope it all works out just fine.


OlyS6:

With the Zen-V Did you connect the CENTER front speaker? If not, how does the phone bluetooth work? Just from the Front L&R signals? Also please, do you know if the six FRONT 3R+3L RCA output are all full range?

Thank you.

I tossed my center front speaker in the trash. It is embarrassingly awful at reproducing anything. Phone\bluetooth work great via the rest of the car, with all sound images ‘appearing’ front&center. All signals from the zen-v box are full range, whether it be from the rca cables or the single digital output. It would be up to you to use a dsp (i use audiocontrol’s dm8-10, but it is not as popular as the helix dsp) to decide which frequencies you would like to send to which channels.


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[jpruden]

How do you like the AudioControl unit? Just got my Zen-V and now have to make a decision on DSP.

[OlyS6]

It is very good at what it does, but only has graphic eq and not parametric. I love that it has 10 channel outputs. I am also a huge fan that you can ise a single optical digital input into the D8-10 from the zen-v box. I hear that helix has the new helix mini that also does separate center channel programming if you want to use a front center channel. The regular helix with the helix director seem to be the most popular choice out there right now.


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[Joe'sS6]

I tossed my center front speaker in the trash. It is embarrassingly awful at reproducing anything. Phone\bluetooth work great via the rest of the car, with all sound images ‘appearing’ front¢er. All signals from the zen-v box are full range, whether it be from the rca cables or the single digital output. It would be up to you to use a dsp (i use audiocontrol’s dm8-10, but it is not as popular as the helix dsp) to decide which frequencies you would like to send to which channels.


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Thanks for your response and valuable insight.

One more question please: What did you do about the Can-Bus System noises: alarm bells, turn signals, etc, I suppose these get amplified along with the music, or are those generated from another speaker or channel?

[Joe'sS6]

So, I got this Zen-V for my 2016 S6 MMI2 with Bose, a couple of weeks ago, along with a full audio upgrade.

Updated it, installed it... and... not working. It is not turning on as supposed to, the car is completely mute. I have contacted NAV TV with a request for support, I hope they come up with a solution fast enough.

[wwhan]

Did you read the post above? https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13290936

"Agree. The initial software for our cars in MY2016 has a bit different security that 2017 and later, although it is the exact same MIB2 head-unit. Nav-tv worked with me for a few weeks to update their onboard firmware, so that it works well for MY2016 as well, with no need to update the software/firmware on the car (about an $800 procedure at the dealership, which I was luckily able to avoid- the head programmer at nav-tv was very generous in his time and revising the firmware for the box itself remotely). With the revisions done this past May, it will work right out of the box on MY2016 vehicles. It has been working flawlessly on my 2016 S6 without hiccups since May. "

[Joe'sS6]

Yes, I did read it.

The first thing I did with the Zen-V was to update it's software as NavTV indicated.

[Joe'sS6]

What did you do about the Can-Bus System noises: alarm bells, turn signals, etc, I suppose these get amplified along with the music, or are those generated from another speaker or channel?

In case somebody else wants to know about this, the Alarm Bells and Turn Signal sounds do not come from the amped speakers, it is a separate system.

[OlyS6]

Were you able to get your issues sorted with the navtv box?



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[Joe'sS6]

Not yet, they are still looking into it at NAVTV, it does not seem to be an easy fix.

[Joe'sS6]

Were you able to get your issues sorted with the navtv box?

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The problem was a defective Zen-V unit. I received a replacement yesterday, it works great! Now on to tuning the DSP over the weekend.

[OlyS6]

Glad to hear it. Which DSP did you go with?

[Joe'sS6]

The DSP is a JL Audio Twk D8, connected to the Zen-V via Mosfet Cable.

I am using all JL Audio equipment, a 5 Channel 700 W XV Amp, the C5 made in Germany Component Speakers, 3 way up front, 2 way in the rear doors, and one 10" Sub.

It sounds fine as it is now with just the crossovers set, but I expect the tuning will still make it much better.

[tnjed]

The problem was a defective Zen-V unit. I received a replacement yesterday, it works great! Now on to tuning the DSP over the weekend.

I also have had to ask (repeatedly, until I was no longer patient or good humored) for a replacement Zen-v unit. They insisted on me updating the firmware time and again until my installer went to bat for me and helped facilitate a replacement. Since then - no problema! But customer service is a challenge for NAV-TV.



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[PeteRock]

For anyone looking to create their own aftermarket sound system in MY2016 and later Audis, navtv just released their zen-v digital interface this past week.

https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT860/zen-v.html

I had a chance to install it this past weekend, and it works extremely well.

This box takes the fiberoptic signal from the MMI, and can send a clean full-range digital fiberoptic signal or 12 different analog outputs to an aftermarket digital signal processor.

Important things to note: This is currently the only digital interface on the market for Audi's/Porsche and VWs with the newer MOST150 fiberoptic system, allowing you to remove the factory amplifier, but to keep full functionality of the MMI.

Installation was pretty simple, and allowed me to use a single fiberoptic toslink cable to send the pure digital signal to my DSP, eliminating my factory amp and the need to send all my speaker out wires from that amp to the DSP.

A great aspect to this setup is that I now have a pure digital signal going from the MMI to the digital interface and to the DSP, without any noise introduced into the setup.

At $1299 it's quite expensive, but allows the flexibility to do whatever you desire with any DSP and your choice of aftermarket amplifiers.

Of note, the owner of Arc Audio recently won an international sound competition using a similar navtv digital interface with his stock Cadillac head unit, an impressive feat.

It's also small, enabling me to fit it in the driver side cubby with both an aftermarket amplifier and my DSP with plenty of room:



If you have a pre-facelift car, you can do many of the same things with either a Mobridge DA1 or Audison Bit-DMI, at half the price.

Did the price drop to $749 for this?

I just clicked the link that you posted where you mentioned that it was $1299

I have a 2017 S5 and had the OEM B&O completely removed for Audison Voce’s all around with a Audison BIT One DSP a JL Audio 10W7 and 3- JL Audio HD Amps and I had to leave the B&O Amp in the car because I’m using the OEM Head Unit and MMI

It sounds amazing already so would using this and removing the B&O amp really sound noticeably better?


Pete

[OlyS6]

It did drop to $749.

It will allow you to completely remove the amp that came with your car and the native wonky digital signal processing that came with it, providing an unadulterated digital signal from your headunit, that you can then tune with your DSP. You are correct that you can make it sound awesome with the amp that came with the car. I happen to really like the idea of having a purely digital signal until your DSP sends an analog signal to your amplifiers, rather than going digital-analog (your current amp)- digital-analog. Just a preference, but the true benefit is to completely remove the DSP/equalization that comes with the amp in your car so you don’t have to fight against it.


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[PeteRock]

It did drop to $749.

It will allow you to completely remove the amp that came with your car and the native wonky digital signal processing that came with it, providing an unadulterated digital signal from your headunit, that you can then tune with your DSP. You are correct that you can make it sound awesome with the amp that came with the car. I happen to really like the idea of having a purely digital signal until your DSP sends an analog signal to your amplifiers, rather than going digital-analog (your current amp)- digital-analog. Just a preference, but the true benefit is to completely remove the DSP/equalization that comes with the amp in your car so you don’t have to fight against it.


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Ok cool....thanks for the response and explanation....sounds like something I’ll be picking up soon after a few other projects are completed


Pete

[Manual2018A5]

Recently bought a 2018 A5 (B9). The sound system is horrendous. It is barely audible at max volume when I am at max volume, doing 70 MPH on the freeway (with windows UP!).

This is the base sound system (not Bose or B & O). Does this system even HAVE an amp or all the speakers powered by head unit? I cannot find a wiring diagram anywhere. I am really just looking to increase the volume.

Does anyone know if this model (A5 B9) has an amp (it has the cd/sd card slots in glove box) if so, where is it?

Can I just swamp out the amp (if there is one) with a more powerful one that won't blow the speakers? I looked at the subwoofer in the back and there are no specs printed on it so who knows its RMS.

If need be: I will go the ZEN X, DSP, AMP, New speakers route, but I am really just trying to increase the volume - not gut and rebuild the entire system,

Any advice? Thanks again.

[Manual2018A5]

Does anyone know if the base audio system in a 2018 A5 (B9) has an actual amplifier or does just the head unit (cd/sd/sim box in glove compartment) powers all of the speakers?

I looked in the driver side trunk cubby hole and there doesn't appear to be an amp, just a black bolted piece of plastic with with wires coming from under it. Would the amp be anywhere else?

[Muji79]

Did the price drop to $749 for this?


I just clicked the link that you posted where you mentioned that it was $1299

I have a 2017 S5 and had the OEM B&O completely removed for Audison Voce’s all around with a Audison BIT One DSP a JL Audio 10W7 and 3- JL Audio HD Amps and I had to leave the B&O Amp in the car because I’m using the OEM Head Unit and MMI

It sounds amazing already so would using this and removing the B&O amp really sound noticeably better?


Pete

Hi Pete. I’m glad I’ve met someone with a near identical situation as mine. I have the B&O in my A4 B9 2017 and absolutely hate it.

I’ve installed the same speakers as your in the front and rear door, but have them running on the factory B&O amp.

I had originally planned cut the wires of the speakers I don’t want to use, and to take a speaker level output from the B&O amp into my Audison Bit-10 DSP, however I realised that it’s not clear which outputs I should use (there’s 18 frikkin speakers in this car), and more so, those outputs will be coming through in a variety of frequencies since the B&O amp has crossover settings internally for each speaker. So my DSP would not be getting full range signals.

Not in a mood to spend $750 on a Zen-V. So how did you overcome this problem?

Heeeeelp!!!

[Rickytownsend2]

Does anyone know if the base audio system in a 2018 A5 (B9) has an actual amplifier or does just the head unit (cd/sd/sim box in glove compartment) powers all of the speakers?

I looked in the driver side trunk cubby hole and there doesn't appear to be an amp, just a black bolted piece of plastic with with wires coming from under it. Would the amp be anywhere else?

Did you find a solution? I just bought a 2016 A6 with the base sound system and I can't find the amp either.
I'd like to add a sub and upgrade the door speakers.

[tnjed]

Andre,

Sorry to bring up such an old thread. I’ve been working with Jesse, and he says that the digital output only supports two channels - and, thus, we need to use RCA outs to the Helix to get full capability. (Part of the the problem is also the build quality of the Zen-v harness, which is loose and can lead to cut-outs).

[OlyS6]

No worries- those 2 channels are complete full spectrum, so contain clean digital copies of all signals. From your DSP you can than copy whatever signals you want to send to whichever channels you want. I’d be happy to give a demo bit right now my car is torn apart while my dash is getting reupholstered. What DSP are you sending the signals to? If it accepts a digital in, I would totally use that to minimize any noise being introduced into the system. You can text me at 253-301-8352 to discuss pretty much anytime. Don’t worry if it takes awhile for me to get back- I’ve been getting crushed at work lately. Jesse is amazing, but I also think my car is the only other one he’s used a navtv box for.


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[massboykie]

Hey OlyS6

I went through the whole effort of buying (from the UK) the SDMI25 (MOST25) module for my 2016 S6 (build date looks like 02/15), but found out today I need the ZEN. Yet, on the ZEN site they state 2017> WTF

SO pissed I did not ask them first.... Who would have thought when the unit says 3G+ on the screen its actually and MIB2!

I am not sure what I will do with the MOST25 one now.. I can hopefully sell it here..

Anyway, so you have the ZEN-V running? All the factory features working etc? I don't care about the noise cancellation, turned that and the fake car sound off, right after I got the car ;-)

I will be running it into a DS18 DSP with 3X 4 channel amps. Not sure about using the optical though, as it sound like you may lose the surround sound with the optical? Then again, not sure if I really need that anyway...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry for the highjack and the rambling on.. long day

Cheers
Massboykie

[OlyS6]

Hey. As long as you can confirm that your MMI is an MIB2 unit, then your car should be using the MOST 150 fiberoptic system, which would indeed mean that you need the Navtv zen-v box. 2016 was a strange model year, as it seems there are several software variations. The folks at navtv have worked out most kinks as far as I know. For my 2016 S6, I do have the navtv zenV box, and I do have complete functionality of my MMI, including all Nav and voice features. I am now using a Helix ultra dsp (amazing piece of equipment), and have a single optical cable sending the digital output from the zenv box to my dsp. From there, I use RCA cables to send analog signals to all of my JL amplifiers (2 different 900/5 HD and 1 600/4 HD) to power all of my speakers.
Navtv guarantees compatibility with MY2017 and later. MY2016 should generally work, but depending on your build date/software, may need some tweaking still.


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[OlyS6]

Forgot to address the digital/optical issue. The zenv box will give a 2 channel digital out (left and right) which is the original signal from the mmi. These are full spectrum signals across all frequencies. You can then take these signals in your dsp and copy them to any/all channels that you want, at the desired frequencies for each channel/speaker. In essence, you have full flexibility to send whatever you want to any channel. You can opt to use the RCA outputs instead, which will split all the channels for you. I prefer the simplicity of having one cable deliver the pure digital signal to the dsp, and then use the tuning software in the dsp to get my desired results.


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[lees7]

Fwiw, the fiber optic is how I use mine as well. I wasn’t keen on using the dsp in the zenv to my audison dsp... plus, I don’t use rear speakers (only like using channels the sound engineer mixed). using the zenv in bypass mode and just using preouts 1&2 works well too, but I prefer fiber to my audison processor.

[vsaudi]

Just a note to confirm she of the above dialog.

I have had good luck (mostly) with the NAVTV Zen V.
Sound is really awesome using direct optical links.

have had some issues lately with overheating of Zen V during hot summer months.
and now some issues with clipping at half volume or above that I haven't sorted out cause of yet.

The system I set up runs the
MMI stock headhunt source. music from SD Card at high bit rate encoding
MOST150 into NATV Zen
TOSLINK from Zen to Mosconi 8-12 DSP
RCA (x9) out to Mosconi 5/30 (5ch) and 4/10 (4 ch)

set up with 3 way active fronts Focal KX3
2 way component rears Focal 165 flax
subwoofer Focal kx25

[OlyS6]

Very cool- how did you confirm it was the zen-v overheating and not one of the other components?


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[sandjunky]

I'm fighting this very itch right now. Was going with the NAV and then I get lost. BIT 8.9 forza or Helix V12. Anybody have an honest experience with the V12, since this thread seems mostly Audison. My other struggle is finding a dealer that knows anything about four ring cats or has experience. If im going to drop 4k on the sound system, it needs to be right the first time.

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[vsaudi]

Very cool- how did you confirm it was the zen-v overheating and not one of the other components?


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Head unit screen locks up. Volume control won’t work. Also did some temp tests on units. When navtv hits 100C it shuts off

Have some fans ready to install. So will see if they can cool it down a little.


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