Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Cruise Control Diagnosis

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    I recently was having issues with my upper limit clutch sensor in that I was getting random CELs for an improbable sensor position. No big deal, I'll order a replacement. OEM Part# on the stock sensor was 8D0911807A and bought a direct replacement from Europaparts. The replacement I got was a bit shorter in overall length but plugs in just fine and far as I can tell works perfectly - when I push the clutch pedal in, the rev rate slows as it normally should. As well, I am no longer getting any intermittent codes or a CEL for the clutch pedal sensor, which is great.

    The problem now is the Cruise Control - I can't get it to enable anymore. Now, a few years ago I was having some intermittent issues with Cruise where the buttons on the stalk wouldn't work but after a couple weeks it's been fine for the last couple years until I switched out this sensor the other week. With all that being said, where do I go from here? I am considering putting the old clutch pedal sensor in just to see if that somehow makes a difference, but I am skeptical. My thought is it's the stalk itself but I haven't the slightest clue how to diagnose it. Looking for any and all input on how to get this figured out - I have a 1600 mile road trip coming up in a few weeks and I am not looking forward to not having cruise control available for it.
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings Zba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05 2009
    AZ Member #
    50303
    Location
    Denver
    Items for Sale

    I haven't been under the dash in a while, but there should be two clutch switches, one on the upper limit and one for the lower limit. If your upper limit switch isn't adjusted properly, the ECU will think you are depressing the clutch which interrupts cruise operation.

    Alternatively, you should be able to check the switch positions (clutch and stalk) with VAGCOM.

    The fact it started acting up after replacing a clutch switch should give you a clue as to where to look first.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    May 09 2012
    AZ Member #
    93306
    My Garage
    08 A4 Avant, 05 Silver S4 2.7t swap
    Location
    Virginia
    Items for Sale

    Itís still possible they are unrelated. I would take some electronic spray cleaner and blast the cruise switch. Hold a Tupperware or something underneath to catch the dripping.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Zba View Post
    I haven't been under the dash in a while, but there should be two clutch switches, one on the upper limit and one for the lower limit. If your upper limit switch isn't adjusted properly, the ECU will think you are depressing the clutch which interrupts cruise operation.

    Alternatively, you should be able to check the switch positions (clutch and stalk) with VAGCOM.

    The fact it started acting up after replacing a clutch switch should give you a clue as to where to look first.
    Same thoughts I had re: cause/effect. Just didn't add up right away since the RPMs are "held" by the ECU like you'd normally expect when the clutch is depressed. And, as I mentioned, the intermittent CEL for the clutch position went away.

    Any idea where the upper limit sensor (the one in question) should be adjusted to? When I installed the new sensor, I let the clutch pedal sit where it normally would and adjusted the sensor until the plunger was fully depressed against the clutch pedal. Should it be adjusted down further?

    I'll have to dig into VCDS outputs to see where I can monitor those switches.
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Found this. I am assuming this is what you were referring to re: checking switch positions:

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...asuring_Values
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  6. #6
    Senior Member Four Rings christianb5s4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 24 2014
    AZ Member #
    277489
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Items for Sale

    Another thing I've seen happen besides the clutch position switches are the cruise control stalk itself going bad, likely not your issue but if the switches don't do the trick that could be another place to look.
    Imola 2001 Stage 3 S4: 312K - 2.4sec FATs - Completely Refreshed/Built Motor - SRM K24s w/ Custom Turbosmart wastegates - Clutchmasters Stage 4 - Etspec - Cinesnow WG/Oil Lines - SRM V3 Intercoolers - AA built trans - 4:1 Diff - JHM Trio - 034 - H&R Coilovers - FCP - Bosch Motorsports - OZ Racing - SRM/SSAC exhaust - Tons of New OEM parts

    2009 C6.5 A6 3.0T Prestige - stock, daily driver

  7. #7
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 27 2014
    AZ Member #
    291120
    Location
    Flag/Phx, AZ
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaVR View Post
    Found this. I am assuming this is what you were referring to re: checking switch positions:

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...asuring_Values
    Thatís the guide I used for hooking back up cruise control after my 6 spd swap. Just go to block 066, push in clutch and see if one of the values changes from 0-1 or 1-0, canít remember. If nothing changes itís the switch, if it does, Iíd start looking elsewhere

    Another test is to see if you have launch control with clutch pressed in. Let off clutch and see if launch control is still enabled

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant - 6spd swap + BW K04s (Current)
    2001.5 Santorin S4 Sedan - SRM k24 build (Totaled)

    IG: CJ_s4

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings Zba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05 2009
    AZ Member #
    50303
    Location
    Denver
    Items for Sale

    I forgot to mention make sure your brake switch is operating properly. Just because the brake lights aren't on doesn't mean the switch isn't closed. Check MVB for that as well

    Found this


    Gasoline engines with electronically-operated throttle valve only
    Testing cruise control system
    - Connect VAG1551 scan tool and use "Address word 01" to select engine control module. Refer to "Scan Tool Testing/Scan Tool Connecting and Initial Checks", under "Lighting and Horns"
    The engine should be idling.
    Except for the control lever, there are no system components for the cruise control system. All functions are carried out by the engine control module.
    Initiating "Read Measuring Value Block" scan tool function 08
    Indicated on display
    Rapid data transfer HELP
    Select function XX
    - Press -0- and -8- to select "Read Measuring Value Block" function 08.
    Indicated on display
    Rapid data transfer Q
    08-Read measuring value block
    - Press -Q- button to confirm input.
    Indicated on display
    Read measuring value block HELP
    Input display group number XXX
    - Enter display group number 066.
    The engine should be idling.
    - Press -Q- button to confirm input.
    The measured value block which has been selected will appear in the standard format.
    Display group overview
    Display group number Display fields
    066 1 = Actual vehicle speed km/h
    2 = Switch positions of brake, clutch and cruise control (open or closed)
    3 = Desired vehicle speed km/h
    4 = Control lever switch posit ions
    Indicated on display
    Read Measuring Value Block 66 ->
    0 km/h 1000 0 km/h 0000
    Checking displays in display fields 2 and 4
    Display check, display field 2
    Read Measuring Value Block 66 ->
    0 km/h 1000 km/h 0000
    Test conditions Display field 2
    Cruise control released (activated)1000
    Brake applied(break pedal switch)1011
    Clutch applied 1100
    If the nominal value in display field 2 for "cruise control released" (1000) is not attained:
    - Check engine control module identification.
    - If "G" is not displayed after component name, cruise control is not activated. Activate cruise control system.
    Display check, display field 4
    Read Measuring Value Block 66 ->
    0 km/h 1000 0 km/h 0000
    Test conditions Display field
    Switch -B- in "OFF" (AUS) position0000
    Switch -B- to "ON" (EIN) position0011
    Memory set, switch -B- to "OFF"0001
    (AUS) before engaging
    Button -A- pressed, "SET" (FIX)0111
    Switch -B- to "RES" (AUFN) 1011
    Last edited by Zba; 04-16-2018 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Thanks for the input. I was able to go do some basic "datalogging" of the two measuring values for the switch positions. Unfortunately wasn't able to do a test drive as its really effing cold, snowing, and the car is sitting on band new Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires. Aka no bueno in freezing temps

    Anyways, here's the outputs for the given scenarios:



    Cruise switch off, no pedals pushed
    1100 0000

    Cruise off, clutch pedal pressed
    1000 0000

    Cruise off, brake pedal depressed
    1111 0000

    Cruise ON, no pedals depressed
    1100 0011

    Cruise ON, clutch pedal depressed
    1000 0011

    Cruise ON, brake pedal depressed
    1111 0011

    Cruise ON, cruise set button pressed
    1100 0111

    Cruise ON, Resume button pulled
    1100 1011


    Of the above, the only one that doesn't make total sense is the first one. 1100 of the 1st group correlates to "Clutch Applied", so I am assuming this to mean "clutch engaged" or in other words "clutch pedal not depressed", but its not abundantly clear. I did also see an intermittent code for the switch stalk which is a good thing. Cleared that. I am hoping to get a test drive in later this week once the weather warms up a bit to see if things have corrected themselves.
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  10. #10
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 27 2014
    AZ Member #
    291120
    Location
    Flag/Phx, AZ
    Items for Sale

    Just checked mine,

    Cruise off, no pedals pressed 1000 0000
    Cruise off, clutch pressed 1100 0000
    Cruise off brake pressed 1011 0000
    Cruise off both pressed 1111 0000

    Looks like you got a normally closed clutch switch

    Iíd be willing to bet your anti lag works with the clutch out and disables with the clutch pressed also

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant - 6spd swap + BW K04s (Current)
    2001.5 Santorin S4 Sedan - SRM k24 build (Totaled)

    IG: CJ_s4

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 31 2014
    AZ Member #
    279315
    My Garage
    2002 stage 3 a6 6MT 2004 cavalier
    Location
    Charlotte/Roanoke

    Do you have a "G" in the software code when you pull the engine module up on VCDS? I just went thru this and had to login with the cc number

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Audizine mobile app

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ_ View Post
    Just checked mine,

    Cruise off, no pedals pressed 1000 0000
    Cruise off, clutch pressed 1100 0000
    Cruise off brake pressed 1011 0000
    Cruise off both pressed 1111 0000

    Looks like you got a normally closed clutch switch

    Iíd be willing to bet your anti lag works with the clutch out and disables with the clutch pressed also
    Don't think I have anti-lag/launch control built into my tune. Need to get test pipes first... I paid way too much for my cats so I could pass emissions and don't want to melt them lol

    Interesting on the cruise off, no pedals pressed output. Possible the replacement part that I got, even though its a p/n match (it supersedes the stock p/n), isn't correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robsa6 View Post
    Do you have a "G" in the software code when you pull the engine module up on VCDS? I just went thru this and had to login with the cc number

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Audizine mobile app
    Can't recall honestly. What was the login for?
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Zba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05 2009
    AZ Member #
    50303
    Location
    Denver
    Items for Sale

    Snow? You poor sob

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Aug 31 2014
    AZ Member #
    279315
    My Garage
    2002 stage 3 a6 6MT 2004 cavalier
    Location
    Charlotte/Roanoke

    Screenshot_20180415-191957.jpg check this out. Fixed my no cruise today with it hope it helps

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Audizine mobile app

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Zba View Post
    Snow? You poor sob
    LOL well, yeah relative to Denver a little snow is nothing. We've already had 130" of snow this year... but its the middle of April. We should be having sunny 70-degree days like we had on Friday, not snowy 30-degree days like today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robsa6 View Post
    Screenshot_20180415-191957.jpg check this out. Fixed my no cruise today with it hope it helps
    Thats interesting. I'll check the software code tonight. It was working before I swapped out the switch and I haven't touched the ECU since late Sept so that leads me to believe it should be enabled, and that it may just be the switch is wrong in that it works backwards of what the ECU is expecting.
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings Zba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 05 2009
    AZ Member #
    50303
    Location
    Denver
    Items for Sale

    Just stick your head down there while manually testing all of the switches. Push and pull the plungers and see if the values change. It looks like your switch isn't adjusted properly based on your first set of values, but I'm not sure why your second set acts like "no pedal pressed" does.

    The bit on adjustment
    After installation, the vent valve must be in the following position:

    a - 0-0.7 mm
    1 - Pedal stop surface
    2 - Pedal bracket
    3 - Bracket
    4 - Vent valve

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Zba View Post
    Just stick your head down there while manually testing all of the switches. Push and pull the plungers and see if the values change. It looks like your switch isn't adjusted properly based on your first set of values, but I'm not sure why your second set acts like "no pedal pressed" does.

    The bit on adjustment
    After installation, the vent valve must be in the following position:

    a - 0-0.7 mm
    1 - Pedal stop surface
    2 - Pedal bracket
    3 - Bracket
    4 - Vent valve
    Far as I can tell the values are changing as the pedals are moved, so from an ECU perspective its working correctly there. I think the issue is either the adjustment or the sensor operating opposite of what it should. Youre saying that 1000, which im seeing when I push the clutch pedal down, is what i should see when the clutch pedal is NOT depressed?
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Thought Id give an update... Couldn't get cruise to work even though all the values I am seeing indicate the switches were working correctly. This led me to back to the sensor I pulled out. I had suspected after removal that it was just getting "stuck", causing the CEL, so I soaked the lower end of the plunger in some degreaser. Scrubbed it, cleaned it, and swapped it back into the car. Test values? Surprisingly the exact opposite of what was being shown by the replacement switch, confirming what CJ_ had suspected.

    Took the car out and tested cruise control and everything worked as if nothing ever happened. Values being output via VCDS are all correct, including the switches on the stalk, so I think my suspicions were right that the original issue was just that the plunger on the switch was just getting stuck occasionally. Everything is working great now and my right foot is thankful lol

    Looking into this more closely, it would appear the C5 A6 has the same p/n for its switch, and the switch I ordered says its for the C5 A6. Unfortunately it seems as though they are completely different functional parts, even though theyre physically identical.... way to go Audi.
    Last edited by alphaVR; 04-21-2018 at 03:17 PM.
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver

  19. #19
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 27 2014
    AZ Member #
    291120
    Location
    Flag/Phx, AZ
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaVR View Post
    Thought Id give an update... Couldn't get cruise to work even though all the values I am seeing indicate the switches were working correctly. This led me to back to the sensor I pulled out. I had suspected after removal that it was just getting "stuck", causing the CEL, so I soaked the lower end of the plunger in some degreaser. Scrubbed it, cleaned it, and swapped it back into the car. Test values? Surprisingly the exact opposite of what was being shown by the replacement switch, confirming what CJ_ had suspected.

    Took the car out and tested cruise control and everything worked as if nothing ever happened. Values being output via VCDS are all correct, including the switches on the stalk, so I think my suspicions were right that the original issue was just that the plunger on the switch was just getting stuck occasionally. Everything is working great now and my right foot is thankful lol

    Looking into this more closely, it would appear the C5 A6 has the same p/n for its switch, and the switch I ordered says its for the C5 A6. Unfortunately it seems as though they are completely different functional parts, even though theyre physically identical.... way to go Audi.
    Glad you got it figured out! Crazy that the switches operate differently even w/ the same p/n

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant - 6spd swap + BW K04s (Current)
    2001.5 Santorin S4 Sedan - SRM k24 build (Totaled)

    IG: CJ_s4

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings alphaVR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 12 2012
    AZ Member #
    100390
    My Garage
    Stage 3 F21 B5 S4
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ_ View Post
    Glad you got it figured out! Crazy that the switches operate differently even w/ the same p/n
    Yeah and Im glad it was something simple. ECS sells two parts with the OEM p/n 8D0911807A - One for the B5 S4 and the other for the C5 A6. I bought the cheaper one because its just a switch - why spend 3x more for the "same thing". Welp.....
    FTWLTBDWICTW

    ═══════════════════════════
    01 Audi S4 6MT - Stage 3 | Project Masochism
    14 Q5 S-Line 3.0T | Daily Driver



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2018 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.