Sound Dampening - Step 1

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Hey guys,

Ultimately, I'm doing amp/subwoofer install, but I'm doing some of the legwork first as I'm still waiting for custom sub enclosure/brace. Specifically, I received 20 Sq.Ft of Dynamat Extreme today and plan to do the rear deck at 100% coverage to minimize resonance, potential rattles and to partly "seal" cabin from trunk. I also plan to do trunk floor and rear quarters with roughly 25%-33% coverage to minimize potential resonance and rattles; and, I thought I'd do the trunk lid at 25%-33% as well. With only 20 square feet of product, however, I'm now wondering if I'd even have enough to do trunk lid.

That said, do you all - who have done sound deadening in A6/S6 or similar - believe I'm likely missing a high value area if I forgo the trunk lid now in this first go because I'm focused more on ensuring I get speaker deck at 100% and the floor and rear quarters at roughly 25%-30%? I suspect minimal road noise entry at trunk lid and it doesn't seem like it's going to rattle -- but I could underestimate that potential. I'm trying to make the most efficient use of what I've got on hand. Comments appreciated!

Once the amp and sub are in, I'll likely do Luxury Liner Pro (CFF with MLV) over entire trunk floor and as much of the rear quarters as I can access. In that regard, I hope to minimize tire/road noise in the trunk, which then would compete with the subwoofer doing its job efficiently.

I may move onto doors ONCE the sub is all dialed in; we'll see.

As an aside, my wife doesn't understand why I'd take-apart a car with only 2k miles, but it seems to make perfectly good sense in my mind. Clearly I'm not crazy!

[digdah]

I am curious to hear what others suggest. I have the most annoying rattle from the roof almost smack dab in the center of it approximately 5 inches back from the rear of the sunroof heading towards the GPS fin. I need to fix this one ASAP because you clearly hear it inside the cabin. The rest of my rattles seem to be from underneath and I will try to source them this weekend if I have time.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

I am curious to hear what others suggest. I have the most annoying rattle from the roof almost smack dab in the center of it approximately 5 inches back from the rear of the sunroof heading towards the GPS fin. I need to fix this one ASAP because you clearly hear it inside the cabin. The rest of my rattles seem to be from underneath and I will try to source them this weekend if I have time.

Wow; I wouldn’t expect the roof to rattle/vibrate. What’s your set-up like?


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[digdah]

Nothing special. I just added 250x1 Class D Kicker amp pushing a JL Audio 8" ported sub that you gotta hear to believe. I don't even play it that loud.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

That looks cleanly done. I'm working out the details on my install now, but it looks like I'll be using a JL TW3 10" in the deck with some custom bracing. I want a bit more bump, but certainly don't want the roof rattling!

I hope you get that figured-out. Good luck.

By the way, did you use the AudioControl LOC? I'm contemplating ordering an AudioControl AMC 1.300. It looks like a 175 watt (RMS at 4 ohms) amplifier with the L2CI functions built in... Excited to see it in action and to streamline the install. Same output; one less box and pair of cables.. http://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audi...iers/acm-1300/

[digdah]

No LOC but the Bose is making me want one ASAP. It is so annoying how it rolls off mysteriously at highway speeds then it is so friggin strong at the stoplight. It will be the next thing I attack after fixing the more annoying roof rattle.

That is a nifty amp having the LOC built in. I might go that route and just sell the one I have . Thanks for sharing.

[OlyS6]

JWebb,

check out S4Per's audio build thread for his 2013 S6- http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...y-install.html

He fully documents an amazingly thorough sound deadening process with lots of pictures. I plan to start with the rear deck and the trunk as well. An interesting thing he also did was to stuff the space between the aluminum deck and the deck cover (several inch gap) with a cotton batting as well.

I plan on embarking on the sound deadening process as soon as my stuff arrives. Check out sounddeadenershowdown.com when you get a chance. I went with a bunch of their stuff (CLD tiles, CFF, MLV)- can't wait to get started.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

JWebb,

check out S4Per's audio build thread for his 2013 S6- http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...y-install.html

He fully documents an amazingly thorough sound deadening process with lots of pictures. I plan to start with the rear deck and the trunk as well. An interesting thing he also did was to stuff the space between the aluminum deck and the deck cover (several inch gap) with a cotton batting as well.

I plan on embarking on the sound deadening process as soon as my stuff arrives. Check out sounddeadenershowdown.com when you get a chance. I went with a bunch of their stuff (CLD tiles, CFF, MLV)- can't wait to get started.

Thanks OLYS6. I'll check the build log. I started dampening today. 4 sheets of Dynamat extreme in trunk floor, rear quarters and covered PART of the deck. Clearly only the first of a multi-layered process!




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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Everyone reading this thread should look at S4Per's audio build thread for his 2013 S6: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...y-install.html

As OlyS6 said, it's amazingly thorough!

[ohhhmy]

Everyone reading this thread should look at S4Per's audio build thread for his 2013 S6: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...y-install.html

As OlyS6 said, it's amazingly thorough!

Link doesn't work

[wwhan]

Link doesn't work

Copy and paste sometimes does not copy the full link: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...y-install.html

6 pages and not done with tuning yet....big project.

[S4Per]

Hi All!

Glad my build thread is providing some use for others! Let me know if you have any questions on anything; I'm happy to answer.

I haven't updated that in a while and missing from the build log are:

1. I did add another amp for a center channel speaker up front. That kind of put the icing on the cake in terms of stage.
2. I let someone else have first crack at tuning (Systems Unlimited in Redmond) because I figured even though there are great tutorials out there, I'd lose myself in all the options. It's still my plan to tweak tuning over time, while having the safety net of getting back to something solid.

Right now, I'm having fun with 3D printing to finish my mounting of the Director remote, the exhaust valve button, and 2 USB ports (one for Director and the other to update ALP). It's been really interesting learning simple 3D modeling via tinkercad.com, and more than awesome to have access to 3D printers at work. There's a ways to go with it, but I'll post some pics soon.

Cheers,
Per

[S4Per]

Yesterday's print:


One more print today and I think it'll be perfect (it's been a challenge to get all the external dimensions straight since that compartment pretty much angles on its way down on all sides, and since I wanted it angled forward for better visibility). Holes for USB ports and exhaust are perfect now (obviously don't have them fitted in the pic). Then it's sanding time and seeing if I need to paint it a matte black to fit in perfectly with the rest.

But back to the topic on hand: I actually have NOT dampened the trunk lid, lol....which is kind of amazing to me now that I think about it. Why didn't I? I simply didn't get to it at the end, and it wasn't rattling (surprising). I'm sure I'll do it some time down the road. Note, the license plate is a killer (it was for me), so putting some CLV on the back of it is something I recommend.

@Andre - sounds like time's approaching...text me a couple of dates that you'd prefer to do the work on for your car.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Sorry about the bad links guys! Thanks for getting that fixed. S4per's log is a must read!

I figured I'd share some before and after shots of my step 1. I've done Dynamat Extreme to trunk floor, rear quarters and PART of the speaker deck. I'll ultimately have 100% on the deck, but I wanted to leave room for working with the subwoofer before I finish-up with the CDL/Dynamat.

[OlyS6]

Per, did you use CLD tiles on both the top and bottom surfaces of the aluminum rear deck? And CCF and MLV on both surfaces? Or just the top?

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Per, did you use CLD tiles on both the top and bottom surfaces of the aluminum rear deck? And CCF and MLV on both surfaces? Or just the top?

Interested in that answer too!

For what its worth, when you're "inside" the rear quarters, you can access both the interior and exterior sides of the metal you can side. I used constraint damping (Dynamat) on both sides. I may be closer to 50% in some areas, but I don't see a problem besides a couple pounds - which can be mitigated by MORE POWER..

[S4Per]

Per, did you use CLD tiles on both the top and bottom surfaces of the aluminum rear deck? And CCF and MLV on both surfaces? Or just the top?

I only did CLV on the top (CLV is there to lower the resonance frequency so I think it's 'side agnostic'), and I did not use any CCF/MLV on the deck at all as sound travel to/from trunk is fine for my setup. I think with an infinite baffle setup that approach would be different. So, YMMV on that last piece, but I suggest trying without first, and if you want to experiment, then putting CCF/MLV on top of the deck. I've read reports that using MLV on the deck has helped some installs, and hurt others.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Hi All!

Glad my build thread is providing some use for others! Let me know if you have any questions on anything; I'm happy to answer.

I haven't updated that in a while and missing from the build log are:

1. I did add another amp for a center channel speaker up front. That kind of put the icing on the cake in terms of stage.
2. I let someone else have first crack at tuning (Systems Unlimited in Redmond) because I figured even though there are great tutorials out there, I'd lose myself in all the options. It's still my plan to tweak tuning over time, while having the safety net of getting back to something solid.

Right now, I'm having fun with 3D printing to finish my mounting of the Director remote, the exhaust valve button, and 2 USB ports (one for Director and the other to update ALP). It's been really interesting learning simple 3D modeling via tinkercad.com, and more than awesome to have access to 3D printers at work. There's a ways to go with it, but I'll post some pics soon.

Cheers,
Per

Per, rather than paint, could you cover your stealth switch plate in something like suede or Alcantara, matching door card? Just a thought.

Super impressive use of 3-D printing!


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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Per, did you use CLD tiles on both the top and bottom surfaces of the aluminum rear deck? And CCF and MLV on both surfaces? Or just the top?

It seems that foam/MLV with 1/4 to 1/4 coverage under the deck, particularly if topped off with trunk colored carpet facing into the trunk would work nicely..

I may try that with a TON of Velcro to see if I can make that work.


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[S4Per]

Per, rather than paint, could you cover your stealth switch plate in something like suede or Alcantara, matching door card? Just a thought.

Super impressive use of 3-D printing!


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Thanks!
And, well, I could, but not sure I should ;) I don't have any other suede/Alcantara in the car so I don't think that'd be it, matching the door card - maybe. I've also thought about CF wrapping (though not too confident on that looking good). I'm going to first see what it's like when it's fully sanded (wet sanded) and go from there.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Looking forward to the final product!!

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

I only did CLV on the top (CLV is there to lower the resonance frequency so I think it's 'side agnostic'), and I did not use any CCF/MLV on the deck at all as sound travel to/from trunk is fine for my setup. I think with an infinite baffle setup that approach would be different. So, YMMV on that last piece, but I suggest trying without first, and if you want to experiment, then putting CCF/MLV on top of the deck. I've read reports that using MLV on the deck has helped some installs, and hurt others.

Per - have you considered or tried Hydrophobic Melamine Foam (HMF)? I thought that might be helpful in combatting road noise from the rear-end. Specifically, I'm thinking about stuffing it behind the trunk carpet "wall" above and around the wheel wells and up in that corner, which is below the window and above the 1/4 panel..

[Phantom75]

Are you vibration dampening for the sub, or sound dampening for road noise because they aren't the same thing. I'd assume you already know that since you've already mentioned mass loaded vinyl. My brother does sound dampening in every car he buys for whatever reason, and by far the most beneficial thing he does is use MLV on the wheel wells and floor boards. In his corvette C7 he's gone as far as added it to his door panels and hatch area, with a vibration dampening material as well in the open hatch area for vibrations through the sub woofer.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Are you vibration dampening for the sub, or sound dampening for road noise because they aren't the same thing. I'd assume you already know that since you've already mentioned mass loaded vinyl. My brother does sound dampening in every car he buys for whatever reason, and by far the most beneficial thing he does is use MLV on the wheel wells and floor boards. In his corvette C7 he's gone as far as added it to his door panels and hatch area, with a vibration dampening material as well in the open hatch area for vibrations through the sub woofer.

The first step I’ve taken was damping for vibration/resonance. Hopefully, the sub will be more efficient and not cause rattles, buzzes, etc as a result. I will do a bit more in this regard as the sub goes in as well.

Next, will be foam and MLV, to keep road noise out.

Thanks for the information about MLV. I’m glad to hear it’s most beneficial. Does your brother “de-couple” the MLV with a foam to get the good results?


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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Hey guys, I'm about to move onto stage 2, combating road noise at the rear of the car in advance of sub-woofer installation. I looked at SoundDeadenerShowdown, who likely has all the products I could need given I've already done the Dynamat discussed above. It looks to me like an order like the list below should get the trunk, quarters/wheel wells and potenially under rear seat. Do you all think I'm missing anything?

(1) 9" lineal feet of MLV (9*12"*54" = roughly 40 square feet)
(2) 3 of the 36"x54" CCF
(3) 1 bottle of HH-66 Glue
(4) 20 Velcro Strips
(5) 4 square feet of the 1.5" Hydrophobic Melamine Foam, which I plan to tuck-up into the cornders between wheel well and seat back... It's just a large void that can be filled-up.

Thoughts/comments appreciated.

[OlyS6]

Looks like a really good start- I've got similar quantities of all that plus some CLD tiles arriving from SDS in the next few days. I've got the rear deck fully exposed, (turns out it's not too bad to remove the rear deck cover, although you do need to remove a torx screw from underneath the deck, which unfortunately was covered by my plywood brace, so I had to entirely remove the sub) and about to start with some dynamat extreme, on the deck and then cover that in MLV, and do a similar job throughout the trunk and rear deck. If you haven't yet, I'd also consider the trunk lid and rear license plate, as those tend to rattle the most with a subwoofer in the trunk or rear deck.
Are you gonna add any CLD tiles as well, or are you calling the dynamat extreme your equivalent of CLD tiles to minimize resonance of exposed metal surfaces?

I'm also considering adding dynamat extreme to the plywood brace for my sub before re-installing it- should help remove some additional resonance from the deck and minimize the potential for vibration/rattles.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Hey OlyS6,

I've been assuming that the Dynamat Extreme serves approximately the same purpose as the tiles, though I wouldn't be surprised if the tiles perform a bit better. In any event, I can certainly hear the improvement with Dynamat Extreme; knocking on the larger sheets of metal with and without treatment makes clear Dynamat reduces audible resonance. And, it was very easy to use, as I'm sure are the CLD tiles. I suggest you wear gloves. And, for what it's worth, I stopped by the dealer this weekend and ordered a couple of the rear seat clips, half dozen "omega clips" and a half dozen of the plastic push in rivets as it drives me crazy when crap like that breaks, bends or flies across the garage and I don't have everything I need when putting it all back together. I've got it all buttoned up now, but I'll be taking it apart once - or twice - more since I have to finish the sound deadening work and do the sub/amp work.

For what it's worth, I started with 20 sq.ft. of Dynamat but quickly ordered and additional 12 sq.ft. I now have enough for 100% coverage on the deck and should have plenty to also do the trunk lid. My rear plate frame has rubber (sort of like Dynamat) in a couple places already, so MAYBE I'll get lucky on won't need further treatment. I will, however, make certain to save some good scraps just in case! Thanks for the reminder.

Meanwhile, my 20" summer wheels have been washed twice, had iron removal and I've done Geyon prep (twice). I'll test coat the wheel barrels over the next couple days and once I've got the application down well, I'll treat the face of the wheels. I hope to take winters off this weekend or next, but it was snowing here today!

[Prh]

Hey OlyS6,

I've been assuming that the Dynamat Extreme serves approximately the same purpose as the tiles, though I wouldn't be surprised if the tiles perform a bit better. In any event, I can certainly hear the improvement with Dynamat Extreme; knocking on the larger sheets of metal with and without treatment makes clear Dynamat reduces audible resonance. And, it was very easy to use, as I'm sure are the CLD tiles. I suggest you wear gloves. And, for what it's worth, I stopped by the dealer this weekend and ordered a couple of the rear seat clips, half dozen "omega clips" and a half dozen of the plastic push in rivets as it drives me crazy when crap like that breaks, bends or flies across the garage and I don't have everything I need when putting it all back together. I've got it all buttoned up now, but I'll be taking it apart once - or twice - more since I have to finish the sound deadening work and do the sub/amp work.

For what it's worth, I started with 20 sq.ft. of Dynamat but quickly ordered and additional 12 sq.ft. I now have enough for 100% coverage on the deck and should have plenty to also do the trunk lid. My rear plate frame has rubber (sort of like Dynamat) in a couple places already, so MAYBE I'll get lucky on won't need further treatment. I will, however, make certain to save some good scraps just in case! Thanks for the reminder.

Meanwhile, my 20" summer wheels have been washed twice, had iron removal and I've done Geyon prep (twice). I'll test coat the wheel barrels over the next couple days and once I've got the application down well, I'll treat the face of the wheels. I hope to take winters off this weekend or next, but it was snowing here today!

That Dynamat is some heavy stuff.

I just did my wheel swap. Like you, I cleaned and got the iron and tar off barrels. I’ve been using Gtechniq C5 wheel coating last 2 seasonal swaps and seems to hold up well, brake dust and dirt rinses off easily. Just tried a new product during the last wash, Geyeon WetCoat - spray on wheels and immediately powerwash off. Great beading and easy. Will see how it holds up between washes. Good luck.


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[OlyS6]

Got a fair bit done today. I pulled out the subwoofer box under the deck, installed a new digital interface for the sound system, I'll post an initial review thread shortly.

I also pulled of the top cover from the deck, and started soundproofing:



I started with CLD tiles from sound deadener showdown, and likely did some overkill by placing tiles on both the top and the underside of the deck, followed by a layer of soundskin both above and below:



Photos of the soundskin both above and below the deck:





I then started bolting the plywood brace for the subwoofer back onto the rear deck:



I also spent a fair bit of time cleaning up the wiring by wrapping what I could in cloth harness tape. Next will be the rest of the trunk and trunk lid. Once the MLV comes in, will use closed-cell-foam and MLV on the top of the deck before re-installing the deck cover.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Got a fair bit done today. I pulled out the subwoofer box under the deck, installed a new digital interface for the sound system, I'll post an initial review thread shortly.

I also pulled of the top cover from the deck, and started soundproofing:



I started with CLD tiles from sound deadener showdown, and likely did some overkill by placing tiles on both the top and the underside of the deck, followed by a layer of soundskin both above and below:



Photos of the soundskin both above and below the deck:





I then started bolting the plywood brace for the subwoofer back onto the rear deck:



I also spent a fair bit of time cleaning up the wiring by wrapping what I could in cloth harness tape. Next will be the rest of the trunk and trunk lid. Once the MLV comes in, will use closed-cell-foam and MLV on the top of the deck before re-installing the deck cover.

Ha; I don’t think that deck is going to rattle anytime soon!

How much space do you think is on the top of the deck immediately around the sub-woofer cut-out BEFORE the metal begins to slope upward at front, back and/or sides? It doesn't look like there's more than an inch of flat real estate up top!


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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

That Dynamat is some heavy stuff.

I just did my wheel swap. Like you, I cleaned and got the iron and tar off barrels. I’ve been using Gtechniq C5 wheel coating last 2 seasonal swaps and seems to hold up well, brake dust and dirt rinses off easily. Just tried a new product during the last wash, Geyeon WetCoat - spray on wheels and immediately powerwash off. Great beading and easy. Will see how it holds up between washes. Good luck.


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Glad to hear that the Ceramic Coating works nicely on wheels. Can't wait to get the coating on mine and take off my winter wheels/tires. It was snowing when i picked-up my car and I never really got a chance to drive it on summer tires..

[OlyS6]

There's about an inch and a half in front of the sub cutout, and about 3 inches behind it. There's about 8 inches towards the driver's side, and obviously the entire expanse of the deck off to the passenger side.

On to the trunk lid and rest of the trunk tonight...

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Thanks for the details! Good luck with the remaining deck and trunk work.

There's about an inch and a half in front of the sub cutout, and about 3 inches behind it. There's about 8 inches towards the driver's side, and obviously the entire expanse of the deck off to the passenger side.

On to the trunk lid and rest of the trunk tonight...

[S4Per]

Nice work all!
Since you mentioned it JWebb, here's follow up on my Director/ALP USB/exhaust button work: dry and wet sanded, painted with black matte paint, and that still didn't look good. Finally wrapped it with same wrap that is on roof, splitter and spoiler of the car. Looks great installed (waiting on Director to get back from repairs will post final pic then).

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Nice work all!
Since you mentioned it JWebb, here's follow up on my Director/ALP USB/exhaust button work: dry and wet sanded, painted with black matte paint, and that still didn't look good. Finally wrapped it with same wrap that is on roof, splitter and spoiler of the car. Looks great installed (waiting on Director to get back from repairs will post final pic then).

That looks really cool!


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[OlyS6]

Just completed the trunk and rear deck sound deadening project. I used Soundskins in the trunk as well on top of CLD tiles.



I also modified a foam fastring to surround the sub face, that compresses nicely against the deck, ensuring the soundwaves fire directly into the cabin:



Everything turned out great! Zero rattles at all with the bass turned up.

[JWebb_C7_Comp]

That looks very tidy; nice work! Does your sub attach to the metal deck or is it only attached to the braces Jesse made underneath? Foam ring is a great idea!

Have you noticed when driving with stereo off that the rear of the car is a bit more quiet?




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[Phantom75]

The first step I’ve taken was damping for vibration/resonance. Hopefully, the sub will be more efficient and not cause rattles, buzzes, etc as a result. I will do a bit more in this regard as the sub goes in as well.

Next, will be foam and MLV, to keep road noise out.

Thanks for the information about MLV. I’m glad to hear it’s most beneficial. Does your brother “de-couple” the MLV with a foam to get the good results?


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I believe he's just use a pretty thick MLV and glued it right up. No backing or additional layers. Its amazingly heavy stuff.

[OlyS6]

That looks very tidy; nice work! Does your sub attach to the metal deck or is it only attached to the braces Jesse made underneath? Foam ring is a great idea!

Have you noticed when driving with stereo off that the rear of the car is a bit more quiet?




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Hey- the sub box bolts directly to the plywood brace, which has some CLD tiles and soundskins between the brace and the deck. The brace is bilted to the deck using 1 1/2 x 1/4” maxhine screws, with washers and nylon locking nuts on thr top side of the deck. There.s also a layer of CLD tiles and soundskins on top of the deck which the washers and nuts are on top of.
The rear is definitely much quieter, although it now makes me more aware of the road noise from other parts of the car. Still waiting on my MLV before I get started on the main cabin floor.
My primary objective seems to be met- I have no rattles within the car or external to the trunk with high levels of bass firing directly into the cabin from underneath the deck.


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[JWebb_C7_Comp]

Hey- the sub box bolts directly to the plywood brace, which has some CLD tiles and soundskins between the brace and the deck. The brace is bilted to the deck using 1 1/2 x 1/4” maxhine screws, with washers and nylon locking nuts on thr top side of the deck. There.s also a layer of CLD tiles and soundskins on top of the deck which the washers and nuts are on top of.
The rear is definitely much quieter, although it now makes me more aware of the road noise from other parts of the car. Still waiting on my MLV before I get started on the main cabin floor.
My primary objective seems to be met- I have no rattles within the car or external to the trunk with high levels of bass firing directly into the cabin from underneath the deck.


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Mission accomplished; glad to hear that. My MLV, CCF and HMF for trunk have been shipped. I hope to start install this weekend..




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