Sway Bars?

[MrScottFeil]

Hey everybody

Been eye balling sways looked into H&Rs & Eurocodes
I like the fact the EC are thicker

what else is out there?
What are you running?
Any other reviews I can check out?

thank you

[Schmauster]

I dont know about the sway bars but if you get a rear one, make sure it comes with the extra bracing. Ive seen pics of the subframe tearing out with just the regular upgraded bar and hard driving

[MrScottFeil]

Will do!

I dont know about the sway bars but if you get a rear one, make sure it comes with the extra bracing. Ive seen pics of the subframe tearing out with just the regular upgraded bar and hard driving

[Ape Factory]

You can't tell a thing by a sway bar's thickness unless the ones you're comparing are all solid. Some are hollow and the inside diameter has an effect on the roll bar's stiffness. Honestly you'll need to look at it as a package and in relation to the OEM bar's stiffness and make educated judgements based on the numbers and what you think the car needs. I have the H&R front and rear and I'm still able to get the rear to slide and rotate the car when needed.

I'm not sure what the extra bracing Schumauster is referring to. The bar is held on by two U-shaped brackets with rubber or poly bushings as well as the end links. I've not seen any reports of people tearing those out with aftermarket bars on the RS5 (or A/S5). All of the bars offered use the same sort of bracket with their own proprietary bushing.

[MrScottFeil]

Thanks for the input APE!! Seems like its safe to say You can’t lose going with H&R ive noticed in alot of folks sigs thats what they are running

[Sazexa]

I don't understand how that could happen either. As Ape Factory explained, it doesn't really mount to anything it can "rip out."

I have a 034Motorsports rear sway bar. I know, supposedly, these cars have a tendency to understeer. Maybe I don't drive hard enough often enough, but the only time I ever really encounted a concerning amount of understeer was in a Audi A6 with a 3.0T, so, it doesn't really apply here. I did buy this bar though as I believe it's one of, if not, the thickest solid rear sway bar for our cars. I set it to it's more aggresive setting for drastically reduced body roll. There is still some body roll as I only did the rear, but, paired with my coil overs it's very minimal. I have to really be pushing it to get a noticeable amount of roll. 034 supposedly only made a rear sway bar, as, whenever they made a stiffer front it just counteracted the rear in bring understeer back. Having the 4.2L V8 up front compared to a 2.0T or 3.0T, it's heavier, so, I didn't want to chance understeer.

I also chose to only upgrade the rear as, though it's heavy and thick and adding some weight compared to stock (probably twice or almost three times the weight of the stock bar if I had to guess) it will do a slight bit to help bring that weight distribution to 50/50, which, is always nice.

I'm very happy with it. Came with really nice clamps and some bushings. Install was relatively easy. It changed the handling dynamic of the car drastically. Mid turn and turn exit are so much more confidence inspiring now. I'd imagine a stiffer front would make turn in, in most situations, more engaging or feel more confident. But again, I didn't want to risk (severe, anyways) understeer. I probably was over thinking it, as again, I've never ran into that with my car. But I also try to be as safe as possible with my stupid driving when I go fast down windy back roads. For me, to help balance out steering and turn in feel, I just plan to upgrade a few things like get the CR-15 strut bar and the 034 front cross brace.

[MrScottFeil]

Saz
I’m on kw coilivers as well I was under the inpresssion if lowered I need to go with adjustable bars is that not true?

[Ape Factory]

I don't have any experience with any of the other bars so I'm sure they're just fine. Do a bit of research and figure out which diameter bar would be best based on either your current suspension or what you hope to get in the near future. It all works together! I'm actually a bigger fan of going up in spring rate vs. roll bar diameter. We have independent suspension for a reason, LOL.

By going firmer in the rear, you're reducing grip and adding more to the front. This is what helps the car rotate. Switching tire brand/model can change the balance and grip too and the more you mod your suspension, the more important stick tires become in order to take advantage of the increase in mechanical grip. I have a few thoughts on the stability control and dynamic steering in all of this but I haven't formed a set opinion worth sharing yet.

[JamesRS5]

Hey everybody

Been eye balling sways looked into H&Rs & Eurocodes
I like the fact the EC are thicker

Bigger isn’t always better with sway bars, what’s the material used and is it a solid bar or a tube would be the things I’d be asking over just diameter.
Go too large and your inside and outside wheel will act together instead of independently as AF is saying above, this can make the rear feel very nervous/skittish on bumpy corners.

[Sazexa]

With my current set up I have had no issue with loss of grip in either straight line, nor in turns. The 034 bar does a great job of not over-doing what roll bars are designed to do. The car in my opinion with just that rear bar feels as though it should have been that way from the factory. Grip can be lost, but, even with all these aftermarket solutions for our car any rear sway bar should he an upgrade. I don't think you'll be able to kill the rear grip completely, just like you won't kill the front either with upgraded sway bars.

As far as lowering and needing front clearance, I haven't had an issue with my 2.5" drop and the stock front sway bar. I've put about 600 miles on my kit with the 2.5" drop, and the only issue as far as clearance is one of my friends driveways. The driveway dips from his heavy truck, leaving seriously deep tracks, which were a bit of an issue on my stock suspension anyways.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with either an H&R kit all around, or something like the 034 rear bar.

Both companies take time to get to know the car a bit (I personally believe 034 takes a bit more care and time, since they specialize in VAG cars) and I've had parts from both companies, both being great.

[Ape Factory]

You're not killing grip, you're shifting it front or rear. BUT, on uneven surfaces, thicker bars can actually cause a loss in mechanical grip as James mentioned. Just look at everything as a total package. His advice on going with the smallest bar possible to achieve the desired result is spot-on.

Later, if you go with higher spring rates, you may find the need to shift back to the OEM rear bar. Just depends on a lot of factors. If you're just using the rear bar with the OEM suspension for a bit more attitude, go for it! Fiddle with alignment a bit to get the best feel for initial turn-in. I find this car very planted mid-corner and on exit (while accelerating). Took me a bit to get the initial turn-in feel I wanted.

I have upgraded front and rear bars and if I'm aggressive enough coming round a corner, I can still get the rear to drift out momentarily. It's actually a good thing. Definitely makes you giggle.

[Ape Factory]

Forgot to mention, the H&R's come with a bushing that never needs lube and will never squeak (according to them) if that's a priority. Mine have been silent.

If any of you still have the OEM sways, it'd be good to start a database for the entire model line, A5, S5 and RS5. Maybe we can get the manufacturers to cough up a bit more info like torsional stiffness percentage increase over stock, construction, etc...so we can all make an educated decision.

[chekraze]

I want that flatter feeling on more winding roads and wide sweepers at higher speeds but want to mod car as little as possible. I also want car to sit a little lower especially after my spacers are put on. Car is totally stock and I have on order ECS spacers (20/15) and CR-15 brace. Would adding the rear sway bar give me much extra?

And slightly off topic but am looking for advice on best value b/w new spring/shock combo vs ST coilovers? Car won't be tracked or anything.

[MrScottFeil]

x-brace and diff solid mount inserts on order I may look into just doin the rear sway....

[Sazexa]

You're not killing grip, you're shifting it front or rear. BUT, on uneven surfaces, thicker bars can actually cause a loss in mechanical grip as James mentioned. Just look at everything as a total package. His advice on going with the smallest bar possible to achieve the desired result is spot-on.

Later, if you go with higher spring rates, you may find the need to shift back to the OEM rear bar. Just depends on a lot of factors. If you're just using the rear bar with the OEM suspension for a bit more attitude, go for it! Fiddle with alignment a bit to get the best feel for initial turn-in. I find this car very planted mid-corner and on exit (while accelerating). Took me a bit to get the initial turn-in feel I wanted.

I have upgraded front and rear bars and if I'm aggressive enough coming round a corner, I can still get the rear to drift out momentarily. It's actually a good thing. Definitely makes you giggle.

I have been doing the suspension over all with the entire package in mind. I've made some alignment tweaks as well. We do have a lot of really rough and cracked roads here in the North East, given our weather, and I haven't run into any issues with the rear end losing grip or being skittish. My FR-S, which is stock, much more easily loses it at the rear. Then again it is rear wheel vs. all wheel, but, that is a car where a stiffer rear I can see seriously hurting mid corner and corner exit acceleration. It has issues even on straights from the factory sometimes with loss of grip when one tire bounces.

Over all, unless you're tracking the vehicle, I don't think any of the aftermarket sutions will be disappointing or net an undesired result. The 034 bar is also adjustable. I have mine on the stiffer setting. Similar to you, corner exit it has made the most noticeable change in thrust. If I turn traction off, I'll probably break the rear loose as well. But I need new tires before attempting that lol

On a related note, I think if I just had something like the CR-15 and 034 sub brace or the alu-kreuz one, it'd really bring my front end turn in to a feel I want. I don't mind the turn in now, it just could use a little more precision/responsiveness. I have fiddled with the idea of maybe doing a front roll bar, but, I don't want to kill my suspension's independence too much. As it is right now I am really happy with how it feels for everyday road use and the times when I'm ripping down the back roads, even with not so good road conditions. Maybe I'll try and do some rough terrain tests and put up a video, we can compare how our cars handle the road in some aspects.

[JoshDub]

I have a stasis rear sway. It really made the car feel more neutral and the bushings don't squeak. I have stock metal endlinks.

[Sazexa]

No bushings should squeek, if you use the right lube (or if they're designed to not need lube.)

[Ape Factory]

Most bushings are poly and they'll eventually squeak without proper maintenance (ie lubing them). The H&R bushings are poly with a teflon coating on the inside hence they're maintenance free and don't require lube. Some sways come with a zerk fitting on the bracket (none for the Audi as far as I know) making it easy. Not hard to lube them, just one less thing to worry about.

My BIG problem is each sway bar manufacturer (or suspension kit for that matter) makes one bar for the B8/8.5 series regardless if it's an A5, S5 or RS5. There are enough differences between the three in terms of track, tire size, weight, traction control logic, spring rate, etc. that the bar is not optimal for all three models. I don't know which one it is optimal for.

The sway end links, adjusted properly, actually made a noticeable difference in front end turn-in. I have had the CR-15 for a while. It's cheap but 20/20 hindsight, I might have tried the Alu Kruez first. I really didn't notice a huge change in front end feel with it. I'm sure you noticed a difference with the ST coilovers. I'm "assuming" they use a higher than OEM spring rate but who knows. No one ever publishes usable data on their Audi products. Super frustrating.

[Sazexa]

Most bushings are poly and they'll eventually squeak without proper maintenance (ie lubing them). The H&R bushings are poly with a teflon coating on the inside hence they're maintenance free and don't require lube. Some sways come with a zerk fitting on the bracket (none for the Audi as far as I know) making it easy. Not hard to lube them, just one less thing to worry about.

My BIG problem is each sway bar manufacturer (or suspension kit for that matter) makes one bar for the B8/8.5 series regardless if it's an A5, S5 or RS5. There are enough differences between the three in terms of track, tire size, weight, traction control logic, spring rate, etc. that the bar is not optimal for all three models. I don't know which one it is optimal for.

The sway end links, adjusted properly, actually made a noticeable difference in front end turn-in. I have had the CR-15 for a while. It's cheap but 20/20 hindsight, I might have tried the Alu Kruez first. I really didn't notice a huge change in front end feel with it. I'm sure you noticed a difference with the ST coilovers. I'm "assuming" they use a higher than OEM spring rate but who knows. No one ever publishes usable data on their Audi products. Super frustrating.

The 034 rear bar has Zero fittings, actually.

How would one adjust turn in feel with the front end links, make it tighter, or give it some "pre-load?" I'd like to give that a shot. I've been considering 034's rear sway links but I heard they click after a while.

I would say the ST's have a higher spring rate but, I also have them basically as low as you can go to keep even with the rear. It does become a bit bouncer when travelling around 100+, but, I wouldn't say it feels nervous or ready to lose traction. It just has some more spring back probably because it dips harder at that speed. You know, physics and what not. Some people would probably find it more comfortable for real high speed movement a bit higher but I'm comfortable with it.

I will definitely eventually get either the Alu Kreuz or 034 sub brace, but, I might try and make my own custom solution for the CR-15.

[Ape Factory]

Will have to make this short for now but sways are what you do last based on your other suspension mods and how they change the car’s characteristics.

Concerning the end links, because your car is lowered a great deal vs stock, the adjustable end links will allow you to run zero preload which is ideal. They also won’t deflect nearly as much and the sway. We will have it’s intended effect sooner and more consistently. More later when I’m in front of a computer!

[ColtS5]

There is a lot of information out here on the subject of ARB's. There are a lot of good options, with those you mentioned, and 034, and some others. I used H&R, and Eurocode and both were very good. I switched to 034, because I do like the brackets and bushings they have. No huge difference in feel over the others, and no noise either, though I had no noise with any of the brands I used. I am using 034 rear end links too. I know at some point the rear links may need to be re-greased, or rebuilt, but i have boots on them too, which should help.

I'm firmly in the rear bar only camp for most Audi's. This is a personal preference, and I've used this on B5, B6, B8, and B8.5 chassis. If you like the balance front to rear of the stock setup, do fronts and rears. If you prefer to dial out some understeer (my goal) use the rears only. In doubt, find a friend and give their setup a go, but make sure you know exactly what they are running. I'm running the stock suspension, with spacers 15f/20r.

The only issue I ever encountered was on the B6, where the end ling bolt to the lower control arm would back out. I ended up drilling a hole through the side of the and using safety wire.

[Ape Factory]

I'm firmly in the rear bar only camp for most Audi's. This is a personal preference, and I've used this on B5, B6, B8, and B8.5 chassis. If you like the balance front to rear of the stock setup, do fronts and rears. If you prefer to dial out some understeer (my goal) use the rears only. In doubt, find a friend and give their setup a go, but make sure you know exactly what they are running. I'm running the stock suspension, with spacers 15f/20r.

This is very dependent on which model you have, A5, S5 or RS5. The RS5, if driven properly, doesn't understeer. I have front and rear bars and I can get the rear to slide. We also don't know if the ratio front to rear, is the same on all three models. Changing the ratio in any way will affect handling. One shouldn't assume that going with a two sway bar combo will keep that ratio the same.

This is why we need a swayer database. We'll all be able to make a more educated decision on which sway setup is best.

[ColtS5]

This is very dependent on which model you have, A5, S5 or RS5. The RS5, if driven properly, doesn't understeer. I have front and rear bars and I can get the rear to slide. We also don't know if the ratio front to rear, is the same on all three models. Changing the ratio in any way will affect handling. One shouldn't assume that going with a two sway bar combo will keep that ratio the same.

This is why we need a swayer database. We'll all be able to make a more educated decision on which sway setup is best.

The RS5's I have driven, still understeer. Yes, if you use the extra power, you can get the rear out, even stock, but the RS5 still has more weight at the front which causes t it to plow through corners, especially low and mid speed corners. So, again, if you lock the stock balance, front to rear, then use front and rear bars. If, like most, you don't like the front to rear balance, stick with a rear bar. The biggest difference I have found from chassis to chassis, is not the HP (A5, S5, RS5) but if the car has the sport diff. W/O sport diff, I found you could really tell the difference with a rear bar. With the sport diff, the change is not as pronounced.

[Ape Factory]

You're not driving it correctly then. Use positive throttle just before the apex and it rotates quite nicely and quite predictably. Run a neutral throttle or no throttle and yes, it'll understeer. I definitely have first hand experience with that. It's all in the technique and trusting the electronics. You should read what Randy Pobst said about the RS5's handling. Also, if you run adjustable dampers, you can influence how the car rotates with just a few clicks. This is why you do roll bars last. They're cheap and relatively easy to install.

When I get the rear out, it's being aggressive around a sharper corner in first or second gear. I'm provoking it. It's otherwise planted as can be. But the differentials need power in order to work their magic and be most effective.

Each of the three variations has a different track and different weight distribution as well as tire and damper packages that are different. All that adds up. And again, there's no evidence aftermarket sway bar f/r combos maintain the same torsional stiffness ratio as the OEM bars front to rear. The A5 doesn't use the same size bars as the S5 and the RS5's bars are different yet. So if you have a set of calipers and a few spare moments, get measuring!

[wkhanna]

front to rear weight distribution of the specific model would have some influence, too, i would think.
wouldnt there be less weight out front on a A5 2.0t than on V6 or V8?

[Ape Factory]

Yep, sure does and I mentioned that. That's why I'm so perplexed we've all bought the one swaybar for all theory. I get why the manufacturers do it (cost) but it doesn't necessarily mean it was designed for your car. I think the S5 guys probably have it lucky as they're halfway in between. Unless of course, it's the pre-2013 V8 model. So maybe the B8 S5 and RS5 guys are lucky!

[wkhanna]

i have a set of f&r Eurocodes with their hemi end links i am dying to put on...... just wish the weather would cooperate...
will be interesting to see how they work out on my A5 2.0t.....

[Ape Factory]

i have a set of f&r Eurocodes with their hemi end links i am dying to put on...... just wish the weather would cooperate...
will be interesting to see how they work out on my A5 2.0t.....

Can you measure the old bars when they come out and post the data in this thread? I unfortunately don't have the OEM RS5 bars to measure otherwise I'd add my data.

[wkhanna]

absolutely!!!!
happy to contribute to the greater cause!!!

#wiki5bars

[JamesRS5]

Can you measure the old bars when they come out and post the data in this thread? I unfortunately don't have the OEM RS5 bars to measure otherwise I'd add my data.

I can measure mine but I’m not sure you could use the numbers accurately, my car is DRC so any tendency to roll is eliminated by the dampers cross flowing oil from one side to the other. I think the sway bar size may have been adjusted to work with the dampers or maybe the DRC just works with the original size sway bars? I’ll get some readings anyway to compare and contrast.

[Ape Factory]

Actually I think it would be, at the very least, interesting to see the difference between DRC and non-DRC.

[ColtS5]

You're not driving it correctly then. Use positive throttle just before the apex and it rotates quite nicely and quite predictably. Run a neutral throttle or no throttle and yes, it'll understeer. I definitely have first hand experience with that. It's all in the technique and trusting the electronics. You should read what Randy Pobst said about the RS5's handling. Also, if you run adjustable dampers, you can influence how the car rotates with just a few clicks. This is why you do roll bars last. They're cheap and relatively easy to install.

When I get the rear out, it's being aggressive around a sharper corner in first or second gear. I'm provoking it. It's otherwise planted as can be. But the differentials need power in order to work their magic and be most effective.

Each of the three variations has a different track and different weight distribution as well as tire and damper packages that are different. All that adds up. And again, there's no evidence aftermarket sway bar f/r combos maintain the same torsional stiffness ratio as the OEM bars front to rear. The A5 doesn't use the same size bars as the S5 and the RS5's bars are different yet. So if you have a set of calipers and a few spare moments, get measuring!

Sorry, I'll bet my engineering degree and racing experience, against your "superior" driving, any day.

The B8 and B.5 chassis are front heavy, the RS5 more so. Has to do with physics, not driving and in fact the A5 is actually better balanced.. Again, if you like the stock balance, use front and rear bars. If not, rear bar only if using the the stock suspension. With other suspensions, other factors are certainly come into play; lower center of gravity, roll center and weight transfer, etc. As a rule, for under steering condition, the ARB fix is going to a stiffer rear bar. There are certainly other things you can do, but the discussion here is on sways.

[Sazexa]

I have my OEM sway bar still if you guys want me to "measure it" for some data base. But, I'd like to know how exactly I measure it for what specific value.

I'm in agreeance with Colt, personally, that typically the rear bar is most likely all that's needed, for my preference in car feel and driving. I never ran into significant or worrying understeer with my S5, but, I also don't take it to a track. I do drive pretty spirited in back roads, but, I always kept it's understeer tendency in mind. The rear bar gave me a lot more confidence to push it harder. Of all the Audi's I've driven, stock and modded, the only one I ever had a concerning amount of understeer in was an A6 with the 3.0T, coming into a real sharp bend, way too hot.

[Ape Factory]

Sorry, I'll bet my engineering degree and racing experience, against your "superior" driving, any day.

The B8 and B.5 chassis are front heavy, the RS5 more so. Has to do with physics, not driving and in fact the A5 is actually better balanced.. Again, if you like the stock balance, use front and rear bars. If not, rear bar only if using the the stock suspension. With other suspensions, other factors are certainly come into play; lower center of gravity, roll center and weight transfer, etc. As a rule, for under steering condition, the ARB fix is going to a stiffer rear bar. There are certainly other things you can do, but the discussion here is on sways.

Ok. That's great but you're not "listening" to what I'm saying. I have about 16 years of tracking at Sebring, Homestead and PBIR plus building countless cars with my own skills, no degree necessary, with both two and four wheeled vehicles. I'm no Alain Prost but I can hold my own and can definitely sort a car out whether it be engine or suspension dynamics. I've been rebuilding various engines since before I could drive, tuned countless high hp cars that other people own, worked towards Motech certification and was even featured in a Japan-only auto magazine.

I fully understand the weight distribution of the RS5 (have mentioned it several times and my bone of contention) and how to drive it. I actually own one and drive it every day. As an engineer, you make decisions based on facts, hard data and numbers. My grandfather was an engineer for Allison (in Indy btw..., P38 Lightning) and my father is also an engineer. I get the methodology. You don't have any hard numbers or at least haven't shared them (but please share if you do!). I'm really, really not trying to get into another pissing match. I'm a humble guy who is very grateful to have what I have and share any and all knowledge that I can to the benefit of our small community. The RS5, if driven correctly, doesn't plough or understeer to the point where one would automatically want to upgrade the rear sway bar. But don't take my word for it, let's hear what Randy has to say...

"The R8 should be half this good! This car is fantastic. I adore it. It does such a great job utilizing all-wheel-drive traction off the corner, with zero push. You just drive in there and you think it's too early, but you just floor it and you're like, man, I should've gotten on the gas sooner. And no push, no oversteer -- it just drives right out of there, beautifully carving an exit line, using all the power. The gearbox is also very friendly. I just got more confident with carrying speed in and trusting the grip." So if what Randy says is true, why would we want to change the roll bars at all let alone just one?

So put the hatchet away, we're saying similar things in different ways. I've said countless times the A5 is different from the RS5 in the weight distribution dept. That's part of my issue. One sway bar (or two) does not fit all of the B8/8.5's. What's good for the A5 may not be of greatest benefit to the RS5. I've driven the RS5 hard with the TC off and on. There's a difference due to the way the TC and stability control works (with brake input). The various differentials can only work effectively under power and you can actually feel them working when on the throttle in slow, tight turns as well as faster sweepers. If one changes everything out, can they still cope? What sort of effect do the mods have on how the TC and stability react? I want to know all of that before making a decision on parts. Now what if you move to wider wheels and better tires? What if you don't? Can the tires you're using actually take advantage of larger sways? It's part of a package and you have to think that way. I'm very much tire limited at this point and I know it.

Sway bars are a cheap mod that can absolutely be effective. If you plan on keeping the OEM dampers/springs, it's a good way to make a noticeable difference (better or worse) for very little money. If you plan on modding the wheel/tire package, dampers and spring rate, figure that out first before deciding on sways. But again, in the end, we have independent suspension and I generally like to go up in spring rate and run the smallest bar I can. If you're running uber sticky rubber and wider wheels, you'll be better equipped to take advantage of larger sways, coil-overs, etc...

[Ape Factory]

I have my OEM sway bar still if you guys want me to "measure it" for some data base. But, I'd like to know how exactly I measure it for what specific value.

I'm in agreeance with Colt, personally, that typically the rear bar is most likely all that's needed, for my preference in car feel and driving. I never ran into significant or worrying understeer with my S5, but, I also don't take it to a track. I do drive pretty spirited in back roads, but, I always kept it's understeer tendency in mind. The rear bar gave me a lot more confidence to push it harder. Of all the Audi's I've driven, stock and modded, the only one I ever had a concerning amount of understeer in was an A6 with the 3.0T, coming into a real sharp bend, way too hot.

You'll need a decent measuring caliper. You don't really have to spend a ton of money. You're basically measuring the diameter of the bar. Pretty easy to do but do it in the middle of the bar, not at the ends as some bars taper.

And if you're really bored, I'd be interested in the weight too. Some aftermarket bars "might" be hollow and that has a very definitive effect on how "stiff" the bar is.

[Ape Factory]

This is what I'd like to build here on this forum, a database of all available sways whether OEM or aftermarket.
http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspen...diameters.html

[S5Pilot]

H&R Rear is all you need.

[u2nelson]

I agree with Ape Factory, the throttle has allot to do with the balance. I feel that my S5 is now a very balanced car, feels planted and stable with a direct front wheel steering wheel connection, something it lacked when all parts were OEM. The car will now push when cornering under light throttle or less, but will rotate under strong throttle, its very predictable and fun. I find the grip to be high enough that finding the limits is hard to do and probably ridiculous on a public road. The biggest changes in the handling department came from the EC USS front and rear system with solid end links and the Bilstein PSS10 coilovers. This combo really makes the car feel planted and solid. The CR-15 upper brace has little effect on the balance of the car, the biggest thing it helps with is the turn in response. The time it takes from moving the steering wheel to when the car reacts is reduced, think avoid that pot hole type input. It also helps on those long sweeper type corners you might find on the freeway, or the on ramp. Once established in the turn, the amount of adjusting to hold the line is reduced, particularly when the surface is uneven. I also notice less interior creaking at slow speed entering the driveway. The CR-15 works well with an underbody brace, the effects are about the same and additive. Shameless plug, if interested in a CR-15 brace send me a Email, or PM, I have them in stock. Thanks

[wkhanna]

........The CR-15 upper brace has little effect on the balance of the car, the biggest thing it helps with is the turn in response........ It also helps on those long sweeper type corners ........... the amount of adjusting to hold the line is reduced...... I also notice less interior creaking at slow speed entering the driveway. The CR-15 works well with an underbody brace, the effects are about the same and additive................

this mimics my experience....

the first thing i did to my A5 2.0t purchased last may was to add the CR-15 last july.
then the Alu Kreuz a few months later.

[Sazexa]

I can find out about weight but, the 034 B8 rear bar is 25.4mm thick. It's solid to my understanding. Also adjustable.