Bad CPO Experience... Tuned, TD1

[Beach girl]

You are aware that Volvo has stated they will only sell EV and Hybrid vehicles starting in like 2020 right? Pass, I like to go on road trips, EVs are worthless and hybrid's are fakers with heavy toxic batteries with compromised performance (unless you spend $250k or so for a McLaren or Ferrari lol). I'm going out to Pike's Peak today, right around a 300 mile round trip, that means I'd either have to stay the night to recharge a worthless EV or get stranded on the highway outside of town on the return trip. Pass LMAO

Volvo is going to start the transition to more electric vehicles in the next few years, but nearly all of their current cars are gas, including the XC40. No reason not to buy that now or in the near future based on what their product mix might be several years from now.

[audrobotic]

To recap this thread: OP buys an Audi with CPO warranty. Audi takes away warranty due to no fault of owner. Audi essentially wants the owner to pay for their own mistake.

This is so wrong and egregious it’s incredible. It’s patently clear that the OP did not tune the engine. The OP has proof from the tuning company (APR) that the car was tuned months before purchased as CPO. The fact that Audi is claming that the owner must have tuned the engine after the CPO purchase is a slap in the face. Audi doesnt want to own up to their mistake. Unbelievable.

[bmoreS4]

To recap this thread: OP buys an Audi with CPO warranty. Audi takes away warranty due to no fault of owner. Audi essentially wants the owner to pay for their own mistake.

This is so wrong and egregious it’s incredible. It’s patently clear that the OP did not tune the engine. The OP has proof from the tuning company (APR) that the car was tuned months before purchased as CPO. The fact that Audi is claming that the owner must have tuned the engine after the CPO purchase is a slap in the face. Audi doesnt not want to own up to their mistake. Unbelievable.

Truth, Audi should be ashamed.

[Beach girl]

Thumb's up. (No "like" button on here?)

[S5droptop]

This thread has halted my search for a CPO. While not typically of a litigious mindset, this case to me is a no-brainer. Your offer to make this go away for $2k was extremely fair, and the fact that they soured the deal over $500 is ridiculous, and that reason alone is enough to make them hurt. The part of this that is most disappointing to me is that Audi is washing their hands of it. It’s their program where they are “certifying” that their “qualified” dealerships have inspected the vehicle to meet high standards. In my mind this is on Audi to make it right with the customer, and for them to deal with the offending dealership as they see fit (like maybe strip them of the ability to sell CPO). Stick to your guns and don’t let them off easy. Get a lawyer, remember you were willing to settle for $2k, anything over that is gravy, even if a lawyer takes a chunk of it. It’s no longer about the warranty, it’s about principal and holding them accountable.

[oaybar007]

Geez this is getting ridiculous. Add me to the list, no more Audi CPO for me. It appears their credibility in the CPO selection process is gone. And they are not operating with integrity.

I already had a bad taste in my mouth after searching for a CPO S4 back in 2016. The dealer that kept getting the cars in stock was one of the worst ever. I actually had it out with their GM over my experience. I had found a car but they are 45minutes away, 1.5hours with DC area traffic. It's a Friday morning, and I make an offer. It's also end of the year. I had to fight them for a $500 loyalty discount but the car was $34,500 or so with CPO. I emailed the sales manager and said I can do $34k even and my only condition is that you MUST hold that car until tomorrow morning. I have a six month old, my wife and I are buying together and I want her to see this car. She's at work, I am at work, the kid is at daycare. Just wait until 10am tomorrow and we've got a deal. So they agree, and send me the deal sheet. Meanwhile I am calling my bank to get a sign off on loan terms so I can show up with a blank check to write to them for the total amount with taxes, gap insurance, etc. All prepared by Friday evening and he calls me back, if you want the car you have to come in now- we have someone here who wants it. I was livid and let them have it, and the GM when he called, but not even an apology. We don't hold cars.

Then another CPO experience a few months later in early 2017. I am having my Subaru serviced, next to Audi. It starts snowing and as I leave the dealer I see an S4 in the Audi lot. So I stop and ask about it. The staff didn't even know anything about the car, as if it magically appeared...literally right in front of the front door! I ask, does it have the sports diff? They have no clue but desperately want me to drive it. It's like I ask a question, and they respond with let's drive it. Rinse and repeat again and again. I say well, it's snowing pretty good now. They say no problem, let's go. So we go and while in the car, the salesman says yeah- a guy has an appointment later today for this car but we don't hold cars, and laughs. I told him, funny, because when I bought my current Audi- from this dealership, the manager held it for me. Not just that, they stuck it in the showroom for me. I told him about the other dealer's behavior and he sort of shrugged it off. So I politely drove the car carefully, returned it and told them to please treat the guy who really wants this car well.

I told myself many times, never again. Not so much Audi, but because of the car business and the way it operates. There are many great dealers out there but deal with a few bad ones and it sours everything. Still worse is when the actual brand is not treating you with respect.

[ZaphodBx]

Yeah, it has been incredibly frustrating. I feel like I have really solid proof that the car was tuned before I bought it, and even if they don't believe the screenshot, I'm sure they could contact APR with the VIN like I did to get confirmation. I guess they're apparently thinking it must've been flashed back to stock before being CPO'd and then I subsequently put it back on or something. They're making a much more complicated scenario where I'm the one in the wrong, when it seems like Occam's Razor should apply.

It's certainly not how I expected to be treated, especially from a higher-end brand like this, where a lot rides on their good name.

I emailed Steve Lehto on Friday with the details of what's going on. Hopefully he can either take the case or refer me to someone who can. I'm not looking forward to having to go this route, but at this point, it's more about the principal of the thing than the money.

[audrobotic]

Yeah, it has been incredibly frustrating. I feel like I have really solid proof that the car was tuned before I bought it, and even if they don't believe the screenshot, I'm sure they could contact APR with the VIN like I did to get confirmation. I guess they're apparently thinking it must've been flashed back to stock before being CPO'd and then I subsequently put it back on or something. They're making a much more complicated scenario where I'm the one in the wrong, when it seems like Occam's Razor should apply.

It's certainly not how I expected to be treated, especially from a higher-end brand like this, where a lot rides on their good name.

I emailed Steve Lehto on Friday with the details of what's going on. Hopefully he can either take the case or refer me to someone who can. I'm not looking forward to having to go this route, but at this point, it's more about the principal of the thing than the money.

It’s hard not to take something like this personally. But they are large corporation that’s focused on a bottom line. Try not get too stressed out about this. Any decent laywer will take care of this as a clear contract violation.

You would think any car brand would do the right thing without their hand being forced, but we as the public are hoodwinked into believing that companies actually care about people. They really dont. Yeah they want to present the image that “we care about our customers” but thats only a means to an end. That’s why brand loyalty is such a farce. A brand is just a marketing narrative. Being loyal to any (large) company is just being loyal to random people who could care less about you. I guess that’s awfully cynical but I’ve found it to be true.

[redline380]

I see a lot of blame tossed at AOA. While they probably deserve a little, you need to understand that the Dealership and Audi of America are two totally separate entities. It is my assessment of the facts here that the Dealership is most to blame, and probably engaged in various illegal activities. They misrepresented goods for sale.

If you can show the dealership knew about the tune before selling it to you, that to me would be grounds to return it for refund. A good lawyer should be able to clear this up.

[ZaphodBx]

Yeah, I get that I shouldn't take it personally, but it's a little hard not to. I'm trying to remain as calm as possible. <deep breath>

I agree that the dealership is ultimately at fault, but since AOA puts their name on the CPO program, they should really give the dealership hell to make it right. Seems like pulling their right to CPO at the very least would make sense if they won't. I guess I don't know what all has happened there, but I don't get the impression from how the dealer is acting that they're getting too much pressure from Audi.

With the latest update and Audi saying they show it was scanned as part of the CPO, they're apparently backing the dealer anyway. Obviously I don't know how it could have been scanned and not shown up, but there's clear proof that it was tuned before then, which seems like it's just being ignored.

Still crossing my fingers that I hear back from Steve Lehto, even if just to recommend someone here in CO that could help.

[audrobotic]

Yeah I glossed over the dealership entity. I know well how dealers operate on a business level because I work with them as clients. There is definitely shared blame here.

ZaphodBx - while waiting for Lehto to get back to you - you could try reaching out to some more local lawyers.

[AUDIMAN33]

Yeah I glossed over the dealership entity. I know well how dealers operate on a business level because I work with them as clients. There is definitely shared blame here.

ZaphodBx - while waiting for Lehto to get back to you - you could try reaching out to some more local lawyers.

A Local Lawyer would jump on this.

[oaybar007]

We are Audi customers and dealer customers, but only dealer customers because we are drawn to an Audi product. That is not by choice and brands like Tesla are addressing that with direct sales channels, thankfully. Sure, there is separation in dealer and brand but they work together to deliver and support their end product. As such they are both responsible in representing and warrantying products as promised. AOA is coming off as incredibly arrogant. At least the dealer broke out their checkbook to try to help you in some way. AOA, they are literally putting blame on you, basically accusing you of lying when you have clear evidence that you have not touched the car. It's unreal.

I agree that the dealer may be more to blame, but he's had the car for long enough that a simple warranty reinstatement is a good solution. That's on Audi's end to move forward with and cover the recalls needed, etc. Now AOA, sure, they can go ahead and fine the dealer for that hiccup on their end. That sounds like what was in the works until AOA decided OP was to blame... that he must have tuned the car after taking delivery, even though he has proof of when it was tuned.

[vj123]

Just came across this thread and i can only imagine the frustration for OP. Even though Audi is not directly responsible for the mistake, they should take a lead in resolving the issue with OP and the fraud committed by the dealership. AoA could have solved this issue amicable rather than blowing it up. I wish this issue is publicized to the general public through print journals or online portals. I hope OP takes the legal route and resolves this issue.

I wouldnt even think about buying a CPO Audi anytime from now on.

[audrobotic]

Just came across this thread and i can only imagine the frustration for OP. Even though Audi is not directly responsible for the mistake, they should take a lead in resolving the issue with OP and the fraud committed by the dealership. AoA could have solved this issue amicable rather than blowing it up. I wish this issue is publicized to the general public through print journals or online portals. I hope OP takes the legal route and resolves this issue.

I wouldnt even think about buying a CPO Audi anytime from now on.

Yep. I’m thinking about posting this thread on Audiworld and social media. I think the dealer is Audi Denver.

[vj123]

Yep. I’m thinking about posting this thread on Audiworld and social media. I think the dealer is Audi Denver.

I have shared this in other forums where i am active.

[audrobotic]

I have shared this in other forums where i am active.

Nice. It sounds like CPOs are important to Audi... http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...-profitability

[COAvant2.0T]

I work at a body shop near Audi Denver and our production manager actually used to work for them. He was a loyal employee with plenty of benefits lined up on paper such as a large pension, 401k, and more. He told me things went down and the dealership essentially cut a large amount of their loyal employees out as well as taking their rightful benefits! As soon as I saw your location of Colorado, I thought of Audi Denver, I've head these guys are scum.

[vj123]

Nice. It sounds like CPOs are important to Audi... http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...-profitability

Being the middle man, Audi wants the profit but doesnt want to take any responsibility. I am looking forward to see what the “tweaks” to the policy are.

[ZaphodBx]

I do think it's good to get the word out, but I want to be clear that I didn't buy it from Audi Denver - I didn't even buy it in CO. They are where I've been taking it, and they seemingly didn't tell me about the TD1 for 2 years for some reason, but they were not the dealership that sold me the CPO. I'm waiting on getting some legal advice before I say anything about the dealer in question. Sorry to hear that Audi Denver has a bad reputation though... I'm past the Audi Care that came with the car now, so maybe I should look at an independent shop. I think I've heard that there's a good one in Parker.

I thought about cross-posting, but I'm more of a lurker in general, and wasn't sure of the etiquette on that. I also have roughly 0 social media following, so that probably wouldn't do much. ;)

[ZaphodBx]

Maybe I was part of the beta test for the tweaks...

1) Dealer falsifies CPO paperwork
2) Audi voids CPO warranty
3) Profit!

[audrobotic]

I wouldn’t go so far to assume that the selling dealer knowingly made the error. But whether they knew or not, you shouldnt be the one to pick up the tab.

I remember recently when the Civic Type R came out in the US, there was this girl who was promised the car, but the dealer tried to back out of the deal - and the girl made this weepy youtube video and it brought enough interwebs attention that the dealer held their end of the bargain.

[ZaphodBx]

Yeah, I doubt it was intentional, but I've become a little jaded after dealing with both them and Audi basically treating me like a liar...

[Notfast]

I came across this thread and decided to login to voice my support for the OP, and state that I will never (again) look at an Audi CPO vehicle. As an ACNA member, I'm not gonna forget this when I look to buy something new too. This is unacceptable.

[ZaphodBx]

My local cars and coffee is coming up this Sat. While it’s not the best for me family schedule-wise, maybe I’ll try to get the car looking good, but adding a sign warning people based on my experience. Certainly never thought I’d be doing anything like this, but it’s all been so aggravating that I don’t want anyone else to have to go through it.

[vj123]

I thought about cross-posting, but I'm more of a lurker in general, and wasn't sure of the etiquette on that. I also have roughly 0 social media following, so that probably wouldn't do much. ;)

This thread has already gained some momentum in other VAG communities!

[MN Blue S4]

Being the middle man, Audi wants the profit but doesnt want to take any responsibility. I am looking forward to see what the “tweaks” to the policy are.

This has been discussed quite a bit in the S4 forum. It appears they are changing the CPO program from 6 years 100,000 miles to 5 years unlimited miles. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...arranty-change

[vj123]

This has been discussed quite a bit in the S4 forum. It appears they are changing the CPO program from 6 years 100,000 miles to 5 years unlimited miles. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...arranty-change

Thanks for the link. I see that Audi is matching their policy with their rivals and the change is not good for the buyers.

If i am in the used car market, i would prefer a well maintained vehicle (with complete service history) private buyer than buying a premium for a CPO from the dealer (with an unknown history).

[vbrad26]

I was linked here by a thread on the GolfMK7.com forum.
So word is definitely going around...

[itsmatt33]

I was linked here by a thread on the GolfMK7.com forum.
So word is definitely going around...

just post this in all the FB groups.

[BrewDude]

Note to self...

Before purchasing a CPO'd Audi again, take my VCDS with me and scan the ECU

[vj123]

I was linked here by a thread on the GolfMK7.com forum.
So word is definitely going around...

If Audi wants to sit back and relax even after bringing up the issue with the right department, they are denting their own image (especially among the brand loyals).

Personally, I would not buy any CPO VAG vehicles anytime in the future.

[Skyler@Achtuning]

Note to self...

Before purchasing a CPO'd Audi again, take my VCDS with me and scan the ECU

Not quite so easy as there is no "flag" in VCDS that will show if the car has been tuned, however:
If the car has been tuned, and is currently in a tuned state, and switched to the tuned mode (if so optioned). You can use VCDS to log the boost levels during a full throttle run. On the S6 (other cars will differ) the stock boost will peak a bit above 10 PSI assuming the engine is operating properly, on a tuned car you would see that go to about 20 PSI.

Unfortunately if the car has been flashed back to stock or switched to "Stock" mode this test would not reveal anything.

[vbrad26]

Yeah I'm not sure I will ever buy a CPO car.
Without getting too much into it, my wife bought a CPO 2012 Bug in 2014 and after looking at the checklist, and then noticing things on the car, I feel like they did not do a very good inspection.
I ended up going to the dealer 2 more times to have things addressed, that should have been addressed from the beginning.

With APR's new "Plus" program, I wonder if there is any way they can help at this point.
I am not sure of all the details, but I wonder if you could switch to the APR+ tune and then basically have a powertrain warranty again...
Again I could be totally wrong, but it may be worth looking into.

EDIT: Just looked and they do not offer it for the OP's motor.
Not yet at least...

[COAvant2.0T]

See you at the vehicle vault!

[bmoreS4]

I just posted this in a few FB groups and PM'd it to the Audi USA FB account.

Let's not let this die, make Audi answer to it.

[tsitalon1]

Looking for some thoughts/advice on what I should do here. I bought a <1YO 2014 CPO S6 over three years ago, and have been enjoying it ever since. I brought it in for the 21F2 recall (this was a few months ago now), and when I went to pick it up, I was told that the work wasn't done because the car had been flashed and is in a "TD1" state.

I've since confirmed with APR that the car is indeed tuned, and it was done 7 months before I owned it (so about 1 month after it was bought new). As far as I can tell, that means it never should have been sold as a CPO, and now I can't have the recall work done, and I effectively lose the rest of the factory warranty and the entire CPO warranty on what are surely the most expensive parts of the car.

I called Audi of America, and they say that it's between me and the dealer, and as far as they're concerned my warranty is void on the engine/transmission. (Way to stand by your customers there...)

I'm working with the dealership on some sort of resolution, but I'm not even sure what what I think is fair. Maybe a 3rd-party warranty (they scare me though) or some restitution for the price difference between CPO and non?

I think Audi not standing by the CPO warranty when clearly the dealership didn't properly do their part is the most frustrating. How is a consumer to know that the CPO warranty will turn out to be void through no fault of their own?

Anyway, just looking for some thoughts, and hoping maybe another set of eyes at Audi on this will result in a better outcome.

Thanks!

Take them to court

[ZaphodBx]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the support and help spreading the word!

[audrobotic]

#audicposcam

[jibberjive]

Checking in from a Facebook post. Word is getting spread far and wide.

I just bought a CPO VW literally last week, and if I had seen AOA's corporate response to this beforehand, I probably wouldn't have made the purchase. I won't likely purchase another because of this.

This is clearly and demonstrably deceptive sales practice at best, and fraudulent at worst. Keep up the energy with the legal pursuit.

#audicposcam