Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[Mike9292]

Pull the tensioner inspection plug, take a picture and post it

Any chance i can find a guide to do it here, please? I know it is on the front side of the engine and that's pretty much it. I'd like to learn more about the proces, parta and tools neesed before i start disassembly something.

Thanks.

[Theiceman]

Any chance i can find a guide to do it here, please? I know it is on the front side of the engine and that's pretty much it. I'd like to learn more about the proces, parta and tools neesed before i start disassembly something.

Thanks.

lots of threads here on it im sure.. but best bet is getting the service manual ... where is smac with his speech lol ?

[Mike9292]

I managed to pull the plug and tak some pictures. Is it in a good shape or I need to change it immidiatley?

If I remember correctly you count them from the tensioner "body" so in my case it's 4 notches for me. Is that right?

https://freeimage.host/i/dKZPXUb

[old guy]

It is more accurate to count the spring clip notches. You are in the 7th notch. Good to go for quite a while.

[Mike9292]

Thanks a lot! I assume you count them from the top clip, right?
Whats the number of notches I should be worried about?

[old guy]

You should be OK up to 9 spring clip notches. Here is a bit more explanation of the relationship of exposed notches to spring clip notches. Clicky click

[Theiceman]

I managed to pull the plug and tak some pictures. Is it in a good shape or I need to change it immidiatley?

If I remember correctly you count them from the tensioner "body" so in my case it's 4 notches for me. Is that right?

https://freeimage.host/i/dKZPXUb

absolutely nothing to worry about here

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[4xaudi]

2013 allroad 216K miles -4.0 still getting 30mpg on my frequent trips to the finger lakes.

[Koehn]

I'm looking at purchasing a 2013 A4 Allroad with ~188000kms on it. I looked at it and took it for a test drive and everything looks and feels great!

My only concern is the timing chains. I scanned it with VCDS and checked out the intake cam phase and it reported -5.65 degrees after a 10 minute drive and leaving it idling. I didn't have a chance to look at the tensioner through the inspection hole, but I imagine it'll need to be fixed relatively soon. The owner is the second one and he says the chain hasn't been done since he owned it (100k), so I imagine it's original. He's taken it to a local reputable shop and he says that they haven't mentioned that it's a problem yet.

I've been reading as much as I can about potential B8/B8.5's but I'm not super well versed in the platform (I had a TDI-swapped B6 until very recently). At this point in the car's life do most people just do a new balance shaft chain & cam chain and all the guides including the one for the oil pump? Or do you also have to replace the balance shafts themselves? I was looking ECS Tuning to reference their kits, but there are like 10 different options and it's confusing what's all needed/included or what's a good idea to replace "while you're in there".

[silver_tt]

I'm looking at purchasing a 2013 A4 Allroad with ~188000kms on it. I looked at it and took it for a test drive and everything looks and feels great!

My only concern is the timing chains. I scanned it with VCDS and checked out the intake cam phase and it reported -5.65 degrees after a 10 minute drive and leaving it idling. I didn't have a chance to look at the tensioner through the inspection hole, but I imagine it'll need to be fixed relatively soon. The owner is the second one and he says the chain hasn't been done since he owned it (100k), so I imagine it's original. He's taken it to a local reputable shop and he says that they haven't mentioned that it's a problem yet.

I've been reading as much as I can about potential B8/B8.5's but I'm not super well versed in the platform (I had a TDI-swapped B6 until very recently). At this point in the car's life do most people just do a new balance shaft chain & cam chain and all the guides including the one for the oil pump? Or do you also have to replace the balance shafts themselves? I was looking ECS Tuning to reference their kits, but there are like 10 different options and it's confusing what's all needed/included or what's a good idea to replace "while you're in there".

The timing chain needs to be done on the car soon. You could do the balance shafts while you are in there but they are much less frequently a problem so it's not necessarily something you need to do while in there, I suppose it depends on how far you want to go and how risk averse you are. I personally would not use an ECS kit would would just replace the timing chains (one on the balance shaft can be skipped but I have seen that one stretch too), guides, etc with parts from one of the online dealers selling at a discount to retail. I replaced the cam bridge as it has been upgraded but if you are on a budget you can just rip the screen off (it's likely half way ripped off already).

[Theiceman]

I'm looking at purchasing a 2013 A4 Allroad with ~188000kms on it. I looked at it and took it for a test drive and everything looks and feels great!

My only concern is the timing chains. I scanned it with VCDS and checked out the intake cam phase and it reported -5.65 degrees after a 10 minute drive and leaving it idling. I didn't have a chance to look at the tensioner through the inspection hole, but I imagine it'll need to be fixed relatively soon. The owner is the second one and he says the chain hasn't been done since he owned it (100k), so I imagine it's original. He's taken it to a local reputable shop and he says that they haven't mentioned that it's a problem yet.

I've been reading as much as I can about potential B8/B8.5's but I'm not super well versed in the platform (I had a TDI-swapped B6 until very recently). At this point in the car's life do most people just do a new balance shaft chain & cam chain and all the guides including the one for the oil pump? Or do you also have to replace the balance shafts themselves? I was looking ECS Tuning to reference their kits, but there are like 10 different options and it's confusing what's all needed/included or what's a good idea to replace "while you're in there".

Timing chain is worn and needs be replaced.. not super urgent but something you should plan for . The chain you order will come as a new upgraded one.
As Mentioned the balance shafts arent critical but if a guide breaks youa might be in a world of hurt.
For this reason alone i would do both chains, all the guides, guide pins , and the the oil pump tensioner. ( may need a new lower cover too. )

Dont need to replace tensioners as they are new style but that is up to you.

But the question i would be asking before ALL of this is " how is the oil consumption?" and having a look for coked up tail pipes.

[Koehn]

The timing chain needs to be done on the car soon. You could do the balance shafts while you are in there but they are much less frequently a problem so it's not necessarily something you need to do while in there, I suppose it depends on how far you want to go and how risk averse you are. I personally would not use an ECS kit would would just replace the timing chains (one on the balance shaft can be skipped but I have seen that one stretch too), guides, etc with parts from one of the online dealers selling at a discount to retail. I replaced the cam bridge as it has been upgraded but if you are on a budget you can just rip the screen off (it's likely half way ripped off already).

Timing chain is worn and needs be replaced.. not super urgent but something you should plan for . The chain you order will come as a new upgraded one.
As Mentioned the balance shafts arent critical but if a guide breaks youa might be in a world of hurt.
For this reason alone i would do both chains, all the guides, guide pins , and the the oil pump tensioner. ( may need a new lower cover too. )

Dont need to replace tensioners as they are new style but that is up to you.

But the question i would be asking before ALL of this is " how is the oil consumption?" and having a look for coked up tail pipes.

Thank you both so much for the recommendations!

I did ask about the oil consumption, and it sounds like they don't drive the car a ton (around 10k kms a year). The way he described it, it goes in for an oil change every November and they usually have to add a litre sometime in May. Then by the time it's up for it's service the level is low again. So my best guess is about a litre every 5000kms. I could see a slight haze in the rear view mirror under heavy throttle so the PCV might be contributing a little.

[Theiceman]

Thank you both so much for the recommendations!

I did ask about the oil consumption, and it sounds like they don't drive the car a ton (around 10k kms a year). The way he described it, it goes in for an oil change every November and they usually have to add a litre sometime in May. Then by the time it's up for it's service the level is low again. So my best guess is about a litre every 5000kms. I could see a slight haze in the rear view mirror under heavy throttle so the PCV might be contributing a little.

I dont think so ..lol..... but if you do buy it, guys are having success with some treatments these days so come back and check on that .
TT did you do your experiment yet ?? I've been off for a bit so not up on the latest on that

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[Koehn]

Haha fair enough, I did spend my whole break today reading all about the B12 flushes just in case

[silver_tt]

I am still running the Cummins Valvoline Restore. Going to run it for 5,000 total miles but leaving for Europe for a month soon and have not really been driving the car much so only 2,000 miles in. If it's still burning oil after the next 3,000 miles I will probably just say F it and re-piston the engine next summer if the oil consumption continues to increase, which we all know once it starts it ain't getting any better.

[Theiceman]

not going the b12 route ?

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[Theiceman]

repiston is a fun project though

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[silver_tt]

Ya I am not sure about the B12, maybe I will do it but my view is it's sort of a Band-Aid, not really a permanent solution, and I always like to do things the right way and just put it to bed. Plus by next summer when I would do it the engine will have close to 150K miles on it. Would not be a bad time to do other stuff like pull it and overhaul it with things like a new RMS. Still hoping the Restore will come through and work, many knowledgeable pros I have talked to think it's a very good shot... but one thing I have learned about engines is that they are all different. Once I am back from vacation the car will start getting driven much more and on longer trips and then I should know within 2-3 months.

[Koehn]

Well I bought the car, and now that I've checked out the tensioner I can add to the data!

2013 Allroad - 187823km
-5.65 degrees in VCDS
6 grooves exposed, clip in the 9th position

Gonna start ordering parts soon.

[Theiceman]

Well I bought the car, and now that I've checked out the tensioner I can add to the data!

2013 Allroad - 187823km
-5.65 degrees in VCDS
6 grooves exposed, clip in the 9th position

Gonna start ordering parts soon.

yup you are fine, not at the end of travel at all... time for a long weekend project in the coming months

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[Justinuky]

I recently bought a 2013 8.5. ~45k miles. I had read that you can check timing deviation in OBD11. Either I’m doing something wrong, or my engine will explode at any moment. I’m assuming there is a glitch with the device because the live data it gives me is “Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position: 24.8°F”

Anyone have any insight they could share?

[Theiceman]

we have run into this before .. it is determining degrees to be temp.
if you convert this to celcius you get -4 degrees which is your actual adaption


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[Justinuky]

we have run into this before .. it is determining degrees to be temp.
if you convert this to celcius you get -4 degrees which is your actual adaption


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Thank you!! Although not what I was hoping to see with such low miles lol.

[Theiceman]

Thank you!! Although not what I was hoping to see with such low miles lol.

if you get an opportunity..throw vcds on.. remember.we are just guessing . do you have an option to change units to celcius ?.try it and do it again . remember it's a German car . so it's all metric ..

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[Justinuky]

if you get an opportunity..throw vcds on.. remember.we are just guessing . do you have an option to change units to celcius ?.try it and do it again . remember it's a German car . so it's all metric ..

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Can’t see myself having a chance to put it on VCDS in the foreseeable future, but I did change my settings over to metric.

Reading -4.13° which at least seems to be a normal reading now. Will have to keep an eye on it.

[Theiceman]

yup that sounds about right. i think you have a the new tensioner so you should be fine.. id double check just in case though, i didn't know when they cut those in.

im sure someone on here will know, you will also be able to get a pic of the tensioner and see how extended it is

[old guy]

2013 will have the updated tensioner. But still worth a physical inspection.

[Theiceman]

2013 will have the updated tensioner. But still worth a physical inspection.

wasnt sure

[GVW10-4]

Approximately 8 months post-timing chain replacement on my 2013 allroad and it seems to be holding steady at just about -1.30. Potentially stupid question that I'm going to ask anyway: I just changed the oil and noticed what looked like a small leak from the front of the engine, but figured it might have been residual oil from a leak that occurred when the shop failed to seat the front seal properly during one of the three visits it took for them to get the job done. I wiped everything down to see if I could trace a source, and noticed one of the lower timing chain cover bolts is missing (it would be the #1 bolt if you follow the tightening pattern specified by Audi). I haven't had a chance yet to do a closer inspection to see if any others are missing, but is it possible to remove/replace the lower cover without pulling the bumper and putting the car into "service position"? I really don't want this shop touching the car again, but I also don't want to pay someone else an exorbitant sum to fix shop #1's mistake. I'm hoping I can sneak my relatively small hands (insert small hands joke here) in to do it myself without a ton of disassembly.

Edited to add that a closer inspection has revealed 5 missing bolts out of the 15 that hold the lower timing chain cover in place. They're #s 1, 5, 9, 10, and 6 in the diagram.

[CTBob]

You probably could but it is SO much easier to take the nose off. The missing bolt is probably broken off due to not being replaced the first time. The balancer is mega critical on it's position at install, that deserves a "head on look" before You torque down the NEW damper bolt- with a ton of torque. I'm new here too, so this is just MHO. Good Luck!

[CTBob]

I would try and thread a m6x16? Bolt into those holes- standing by my earlier guess of them being broken.
Note you posted this issue in the Thread: Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.
This really isn't the place to garner many comments/opinions for the timing cover leak issue you're having. Good Luck!

[GVW10-4]

I would try and thread a m6x16? Bolt into those holes- standing by my earlier guess of them being broken.
Note you posted this issue in the Thread: Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.
This really isn't the place to garner many comments/opinions for the timing cover leak issue you're having. Good Luck!

Thanks, appreciate it. You're probably right about the appropriate thread. I was initially just going to update an earlier post regarding my pre- & post-chain replacement numbers, then piggybacked this additional problem without really thinking about it since I had previously mentioned the issues this shop seemed to have getting the job done in the first place.

I've thought about just trying to squeeze the missing bolts in, which seems like it'll be a bit of a PITA in and of itself, plus the general consensus from other sources is the cover should be replaced and resealed with all of the bolts and tightened in the proper sequence. The missing bolts aren't broken off in the block at any rate. I'm in a back and forth with the shop owner as it stands, having to email him pictures of the empty threaded holes in the block because he thinks I'm just confused and that I have an older 8-bolt configuration that now uses the same 15-hole (plus 2 more for the locator studs/dowels) cover.

[maRS5]

Damn, that's just an astounding lack of mechanical acumen. You don't need to be a master level tech to figure out if you take out 15 bolts, you should probably put back 15 bolts. I'm pretty sure someone who doesn't even know what a timing cover is could figure that out.

If they don't do right by you, definitely let everyone know what shop that is so they can avoid it. Hell, even if they, you should let people know because that sounds like a shop people should avoid altogether.

[GVW10-4]

Damn, that's just an astounding lack of mechanical acumen. You don't need to be a master level tech to figure out if you take out 15 bolts, you should probably put back 15 bolts. I'm pretty sure someone who doesn't even know what a timing cover is could figure that out.

If they don't do right by you, definitely let everyone know what shop that is so they can avoid it. Hell, even if they, you should let people know because that sounds like a shop people should avoid altogether.

The owner's final position on the matter is that he spoke at length with the technician who performed the service, and he insists there weren't 15 bolts holding the timing chain cover on when I brought the car in. I've spent a ton of time underneath the vehicle. All 15 bolts were definitely 100% there prior to bringing the car in.

[Theiceman]

his job is to fix it. why wouldn't he put them in even if they weren't there ?

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[GVW10-4]

That's a great question, and one that the owner didn't feel inclined to answer.

[audrobotic]

Super stoked today. A few years back my value was -2.66 at 75K miles (2013 B8.5). I had the shop check it today (100K miles) and it's -2.81. That's basically just a rounding error. So I may never have to change my timing set, planning to run this car until it at least 150K, which could take me about more 10 years to hit.

But I should probably do a carbon clean sometime soon, never been done.

[rusky04]

2014 Allroad 123k miles, just finished carbon cleaning my intake valves and decided to check my timing chain tensioner, this where it’s at, checked my cam phase couple thousand miles ago and it was around -4.87 or so, looking at the tensioner I think I need to purchase all the parts and get the job done.
Car is not consuming any oil, maybe due to the fact that I’ve done piston soak for the third time since purchasing the car.




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[a4lownslow]

2014 Allroad 123k miles, just finished carbon cleaning my intake valves and decided to check my timing chain tensioner, this where it’s at, checked my cam phase couple thousand miles ago and it was around -4.87 or so, looking at the tensioner I think I need to purchase all the parts and get the job done.
Car is not consuming any oil, maybe due to the fact that I’ve done piston soak for the third time since purchasing the car.




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Nice. With your current phase value and tensioner extension you can comfortably make it another 10k miles but of course doesn’t hurt to do it sooner than later


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[Theiceman]

Nice. With your current phase value and tensioner extension you can comfortably make it another 10k miles but of course doesn’t hurt to do it sooner than later


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I was thinking same thing.. that looks fine for another year easy

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