Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[Theiceman]

thanks for the heads up i’ll be more inclined to change at -5 to -6 than pushing it to 7

pussy !!!!!

j/k

[Celiot29]

don’t tempt me i’ll go to -8 😂

btw my mechanic just told me he’s seen -9 with updated tensioner and no symptoms so maybe -7 -8 it is!

[Theiceman]

don’t tempt me i’ll go to -8 😂

btw my mechanic just told me he’s seen -9 with updated tensioner and no symptoms so maybe -7 -8 it is!

i changed at -8.3 and had zero problems ( well other than a minor vibration at idle that i didn't know was related ) but i was on the very last notch in the tensioner and got it done damn quick after i saw the -8.3

[Theiceman]

don’t tempt me i’ll go to -8 😂

btw my mechanic just told me he’s seen -9 with updated tensioner and no symptoms so maybe -7 -8 it is!

Audi :

warranty : doesnt matter what the phase is , its fine unless you get a code don't worry about it
Retail : better get it in here as soon as it hits 5 or your car will explode.

[DuckyDok]

So i did a IDE00182/ Camshaft Adaptation Intake Bank 1 and got ..
9.23'

Ye,it's bad,very bad.

The only problem I have it's with turbo, I have a P0299 00 [100] Turbocharger/Supercharger A Underboost Condition. I don't know why.
And ye,another one is that I hear knocking in 5/6th gear from 2500-4000rpm or 130-160km.

Make me happy and don't tell me that those are the valves.

[4xaudi]

200k miles -3.91. oil change, new water pump, oil separator, spark plugs and a carbon cleaning.

[vosadrian]

Hi All,

I have a MY14 (built late 2013) Audi A4 B8.5 (AWD, DSG) in Australia with the EA888 Gen 3 2.0T Engine. I guess it is probably one of the first iterations of that engine. It has 180,000kms (~110,000 miles). The engine is quite rattly on cold start and even has a bit of knock at idle when warm. It seems to run great though when driving once warm. No fault codes. Because if the noise I did some googling and have come to suspect the timing chain. I have a Launch diangostic tool which seem to have access to the cam phaser adaption parameter:

Attachment 315858

I am a bit confused by the positive number. Is a value of +1.5 degrees OK?

I intend to check the timing tensioner shortly as directed in this thread, but I was just a bit confused by the reading I got for the phase adaption, so thought I would post here if anyone can provide advice.

Cheers!

So I got around to checking my tensioner, and photo is attached (Sorry for poor quality! Trying to hold a mirror, my phone and a torch all at once!). Details of my car are above. Looks like mine has 4 outside the body with the clip on the 8th notch. Am I reading that correctly? How bad is this? Does it need urgent work or OK for the time being?

Thanks for your help!

Here is the pic: Tensioner.jpeg

[seanf86]

2013 allroad with 165k km I had a ppi done before I bought it and was told the tensioner was 6 clicks cam phase is only -1.69.

When should I think about changing the chains/guides?

I was planning on doing the chains in the spring but at this point should I just change the leaking timing cover gasket only?

Also this the quietest 2.0t I've ever heard

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[Theiceman]

2013 allroad with 165k km I had a ppi done before I bought it and was told the tensioner was 6 clicks cam phase is only -1.69.

When should I think about changing the chains/guides?

I was planning on doing the chains in the spring but at this point should I just change the leaking timing cover gasket only?

Also this the quietest 2.0t I've ever heard

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sounds like it's just been done , wonder if they tried to reuse timing cover and it leaked. won't need chains for another 50-75k miles I would think with good OCI

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[Celiot29]

just got back from my mechanic today after oil change i am now between 5.8 and 6.2 deg depending on what engine is doing with original updated tensioner and original chain, he said start thinking about it and so i have now decided to use my tax refund in feb to do the full genuine kit replacement from FCP which is $1,063 😤just 6 months ago i saw it at like 900 crazy how much prices are going up. i knew this was coming and at 208k miles if im doing one big job a year im still saving massive amount in monthly payments keeping this car that’s how i look at it

[Theiceman]

just got back from my mechanic today after oil change i am now between 5.8 and 6.2 deg depending on what engine is doing with original updated tensioner and original chain, he said start thinking about it and so i have now decided to use my tax refund in feb to do the full genuine kit replacement from FCP which is $1,063 just 6 months ago i saw it at like 900 crazy how much prices are going up. i knew this was coming and at 208k miles if im doing one big job a year im still saving massive amount in monthly payments keeping this car that’s how i look at it

yup that's like a couple monthly car payments these days if you are lucky.


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[a4lownslow]

2012 64kIMG_2806.jpg
IMG_2804.jpg


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[Theiceman]

2012 64kIMG_2806.jpg
IMG_2804.jpg


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lucky bastard ,,,,,,

I was half way through counting the notches before i realized ........... HOLY CRAP !!

[a4lownslow]

lucky bastard ,,,,,,

I was half way through counting the notches before i realized ........... HOLY CRAP !!

Yup! Old style tensioner and it was fully extended. The plunger wasn’t even touching the guide


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[old guy]

Yup! Old style tensioner and it was fully extended. The plunger wasn’t even touching the guide

Someone is definitely watching out for you....

[a4lownslow]

Someone is definitely watching out for you....

I buy a lot of these cars at auction and it’s the first thing I check. A lot of times they’re right on the brink

I’ve got a 2014 q5 2.0t up next. 125k sitting at 8.7ish degrees


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[Theiceman]

That's what mine was 2014 133k 8.7 or so , new tensioner though..

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[Fr8ty]

I have done a ton of research about the timing chain on the 3.2L and not too much info is out there, I have a 2009 A4, but I am fairly sure the engine is the same as the A5/Q5 B8. I just purchased an OBDeleven scan tool today to check the phase of the timing chain. My car only has 63k miles on it however due to the age i wanted to check the angle to start planning in the next 20k miles to get the chain done. Is the angle the same as the 2.0T in the sense of if it is around 4-5 degrees get it changed? I havnt found any info on if the scanning process is the same (bank 1 of cam shaft adaptation) and what the angle should be on the 3.2.
I appreciate it.

[Theiceman]

I have done a ton of research about the timing chain on the 3.2L and not too much info is out there, I have a 2009 A4, but I am fairly sure the engine is the same as the A5/Q5 B8. I just purchased an OBDeleven scan tool today to check the phase of the timing chain. My car only has 63k miles on it however due to the age i wanted to check the angle to start planning in the next 20k miles to get the chain done. Is the angle the same as the 2.0T in the sense of if it is around 4-5 degrees get it changed? I havnt found any info on if the scanning process is the same (bank 1 of cam shaft adaptation) and what the angle should be on the 3.2.
I appreciate it.

we have no data regarding the v6. Others have come on before asking about this. I think your best bet would be to go to a forum that has this engine as the base engine and ask. Thee may even be a post on this forum that specifically caters to 3.2 engines.

There is so many 2.0t out there , it was easy for us to form some statistical data around this as there are so many enthusiasts willing to submit their data and add to the collective knowledge. Your only real chance is to find a 3.2 community that has done the same, or start one.

Good luck.

[silver_tt]

the only help i can offer is that if you do figure out what the measuring value is for your 3.2, most German cars like that I have worked on are all about the same (Porsche etc many models)... once you get to 5 degrees or so it's time to get it done

[a4lownslow]

I have done a ton of research about the timing chain on the 3.2L and not too much info is out there, I have a 2009 A4, but I am fairly sure the engine is the same as the A5/Q5 B8. I just purchased an OBDeleven scan tool today to check the phase of the timing chain. My car only has 63k miles on it however due to the age i wanted to check the angle to start planning in the next 20k miles to get the chain done. Is the angle the same as the 2.0T in the sense of if it is around 4-5 degrees get it changed? I havnt found any info on if the scanning process is the same (bank 1 of cam shaft adaptation) and what the angle should be on the 3.2.
I appreciate it.

When it comes to timing on the v6 motors (3.2 and 3.0T) it isn’t considered a preventative maintenance item. Typically it’s the upper tensioner that go out. I’ve replaced dozens of them. Never has one failed catastrophically. They always come in with a check engine light and timing correlation codes. 9/10 times it’s the drivers side tensioner. About $1500 at an independent to replace one upper tensioner. Unless you have a check engine light for timing or a rattle that doesn’t go away there really is no concern. The v6 motors are fairly stout and reliable


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[a4lownslow]

2014 q5 125k miles
IMG_2870.jpg
IMG_2874.jpg


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[Theiceman]

2014 q5 125k miles
IMG_2870.jpg
IMG_2874.jpg


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lol..... think that chains done ..

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[a4lownslow]

lol..... think that chains done ..

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Yup. And it was the old style chain


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[GVW10-4]

2013 allroad here with just over 100k miles and original chain. Updated tensioner is fully extended or close to it, with phase readings between -7.xx and -9.xx. No other signs/symptoms at all.

Dealership says get the timing chain etc changed asap. Indy Audi shop #1 says don't worry about it until codes start getting thrown, and keep up 5k oil changes and annual induction service until then. Indy Audi shop #2 takes the middle road but leans toward agreeing with the dealership, the rationale being you don't want to get caught with your pants down.

Going with shop #2 and getting the job done the first week of the new year.

FWIW, all three agreed they've never seen a chain actually break without fair warning in terms of DTCs/MILs (not that it can't/doesn't happen, just that none of the three had personally seen it).

[old guy]

It isn't an issue of the chain breaking. The damage occurs when the adjuster can no longer keep the slack out of the chain. Consequently the chain skips a few teeth on the cam gear and pistons begin smacking the valves.

[Theiceman]

or the chain starts banging the chain cover throwing all kinds of glittery metal into your engine. the chain never breaks as pointed out, that's not your worry..
also I have zero idea what induction service is or why it would affect chain " stretch"

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[GVW10-4]

Understood regarding chains not breaking. An earlier comment mentioned chains exploding, a notion I’ve read elsewhere as well. Perhaps they were being hyperbolic. As far as the induction service, I’m largely at the mercy of the shop and can only relay what I was told after explaining the status of the tensioner and the mileage on the vehicle: “Usually chains are not changed unless there is a problem, which would include a check engine light. Best thing is to prevent timing issues by continuing to change the oil every 5000 miles, and doing an annual induction service, which includes an additive that cleans all oil gallies that lubricate the timing components.” 🤷*♂️

[Theiceman]

yeah 5k OCI is good.. the chain tensioner is what explodes on older cars with poor designed tensioner,not the chain itself..

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[Lloyd533]

I read my adaptation a couple of days ago. After seeing where it is at now, the car is only driven when needed and I plan on doing my chain and tensioner within the next month.
2014 Allroad 2.0 TFSI 93K miles
IMG_1897.jpg

[a4lownslow]

IMG_3146.jpg
94k miles 13 Tiguan. Old style chain updated tensioner


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[Ringsby4]

Understood regarding chains not breaking. An earlier comment mentioned chains exploding, a notion I’ve read elsewhere as well. Perhaps they were being hyperbolic. As far as the induction service, I’m largely at the mercy of the shop and can only relay what I was told after explaining the status of the tensioner and the mileage on the vehicle: “Usually chains are not changed unless there is a problem, which would include a check engine light. Best thing is to prevent timing issues by continuing to change the oil every 5000 miles, and doing an annual induction service, which includes an additive that cleans all oil gallies that lubricate the timing components.” 🤷*♂️

"which includes an additive that cleans all oil gallies that lubricate the timing components.” 🤷*♂️[/QUOTE]"

Yep,I'm a believer.Heidi has had Liqui Moly Mos2 Friction Reducer added every 7K Km oil service.
Checked phase adaption yesterday, -3.67 deg @ 138,000 Km.Not outstanding but good.
What's probably more telling is at the last check it was -2.50 , 43,000kms ago

[GVW10-4]

To complete my data: just got my chain replaced at 10 years/100k miles. Phase readings averaged -8.xx and tensioner (updated) was fully.extended. No symptoms other than *maybe* slightly rough idle and reduced mpg. Phase is -.92 after replacement. Dropped $2700 at the local Indy Audi shop to get it done. Too old, arthritic, and frankly probably not quite knowledgeable enough to do the job myself at this point.

Unfortunately, as soon as I got home I popped the hood and discovered oil leak Armageddon. Oil was slung all over the front of the engine, radiator fans/frame, and pooling on the engine shield and then dripping out along the edges onto the driveway. In addition, I checked the oil level with both dipstick and dashboard monitor, the latter of which read "Please drain oil," suggesting someone had over filled it. Eventually enough oil leaked out/and or settled into the pan that the dash monitor dropped to "Oil level ok" with a full bar (It was at 1/2 to 3/4 when I dropped the car off at the shop). Not that I'm convinced that was the cause/source of the leak regardless. It looked like one or both of the timing chain covers to be honest, although there was so much oil it was too hard to tell.

This was as a particular kick in the teeth because a) I consider it a luxury to pay someone to fix or maintain something for me, and b) when I do things myself I keep it neat, clean, sealed, and properly torqued.

I'm not sure what happened, but after two days in the shop the allroad is now off the road, sitting right back at the shop for the weekend awaiting inspection Monday morning. I've been pleasant but clear regarding my expectations about how to resolve things. So far I've only been assured there will "of course be no charge for the inspection..."

This is why I like to do things myself.

[Quattroking101]

To complete my data: just got my chain replaced at 10 years/100k miles. Phase readings averaged -8.xx and tensioner (updated) was fully.extended. No symptoms other than *maybe* slightly rough idle and reduced mpg. Phase is -.92 after replacement. Dropped $2700 at the local Indy Audi shop to get it done. Too old, arthritic, and frankly probably not quite knowledgeable enough to do the job myself at this point.

Unfortunately, as soon as I got home I popped the hood and discovered oil leak Armageddon. Oil was slung all over the front of the engine, radiator fans/frame, and pooling on the engine shield and then dripping out along the edges onto the driveway. In addition, I checked the oil level with both dipstick and dashboard monitor, the latter of which read "Please drain oil," suggesting someone had over filled it. Eventually enough oil leaked out/and or settled into the pan that the dash monitor dropped to "Oil level ok" with a full bar (It was at 1/2 to 3/4 when I dropped the car off at the shop). Not that I'm convinced that was the cause/source of the leak regardless. It looked like one or both of the timing chain covers to be honest, although there was so much oil it was too hard to tell.

This was as a particular kick in the teeth because a) I consider it a luxury to pay someone to fix or maintain something for me, and b) when I do things myself I keep it neat, clean, sealed, and properly torqued.

I'm not sure what happened, but after two days in the shop the allroad is now off the road, sitting right back at the shop for the weekend awaiting inspection Monday morning. I've been pleasant but clear regarding my expectations about how to resolve things. So far I've only been assured there will "of course be no charge for the inspection..."

This is why I like to do things myself.

Are you located in California by any chance? That price sounds like how much they would charge here


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[a4lownslow]

To complete my data: just got my chain replaced at 10 years/100k miles. Phase readings averaged -8.xx and tensioner (updated) was fully.extended. No symptoms other than *maybe* slightly rough idle and reduced mpg. Phase is -.92 after replacement. Dropped $2700 at the local Indy Audi shop to get it done. Too old, arthritic, and frankly probably not quite knowledgeable enough to do the job myself at this point.

Unfortunately, as soon as I got home I popped the hood and discovered oil leak Armageddon. Oil was slung all over the front of the engine, radiator fans/frame, and pooling on the engine shield and then dripping out along the edges onto the driveway. In addition, I checked the oil level with both dipstick and dashboard monitor, the latter of which read "Please drain oil," suggesting someone had over filled it. Eventually enough oil leaked out/and or settled into the pan that the dash monitor dropped to "Oil level ok" with a full bar (It was at 1/2 to 3/4 when I dropped the car off at the shop). Not that I'm convinced that was the cause/source of the leak regardless. It looked like one or both of the timing chain covers to be honest, although there was so much oil it was too hard to tell.

This was as a particular kick in the teeth because a) I consider it a luxury to pay someone to fix or maintain something for me, and b) when I do things myself I keep it neat, clean, sealed, and properly torqued.

I'm not sure what happened, but after two days in the shop the allroad is now off the road, sitting right back at the shop for the weekend awaiting inspection Monday morning. I've been pleasant but clear regarding my expectations about how to resolve things. So far I've only been assured there will "of course be no charge for the inspection..."

This is why I like to do things myself.

What a bummer. Chances are they messed up resealing the lower timing cover and or didn’t install the crank pulley correctly. Curious to see if they’ll own up to their mistake or make some excuse. $2700 sounds like dealer pricing for just the main chain. Our local independent charges around $1500


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[GVW10-4]

Are you located in California by any chance? That price sounds like how much they would charge here


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Not in California, but one of the highest cost-of-living areas in MD. The quote from the dealership was so high I didn't even consider having them do it.

[GVW10-4]

What a bummer. Chances are they messed up resealing the lower timing cover and or didn’t install the crank pulley correctly. Curious to see if they’ll own up to their mistake or make some excuse. $2700 sounds like dealer pricing for just the main chain. Our local independent charges around $1500


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I called the shop as soon as I discovered the issue. They were just about to close for the weekend, so no one was around when I brought the car back, but I was able to give the details to the service advisor on the phone. He asked me to put it in writing and leave a note in the car when I dropped it back off.

Now I just wait.

[Theiceman]

,92 is a good number. sounds like they did the important stuff right .

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[GVW10-4]

What a bummer. Chances are they messed up resealing the lower timing cover and or didn’t install the crank pulley correctly. Curious to see if they’ll own up to their mistake or make some excuse. $2700 sounds like dealer pricing for just the main chain. Our local independent charges around $1500


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You pretty much called it. Got a message earlier saying they determined the front crankshaft seal wasn't seated properly.

I'm happy with -.92. Fingers crossed that and some TLC gets me another 10 years and 100K miles.

[Theiceman]

You pretty much called it. Got a message earlier saying they determined the front crankshaft seal wasn't seated properly.

I'm happy with -.92. Fingers crossed that and some TLC gets me another 10 years and 100K miles.

and look on the bright side the front of your engine isnt going to rust now with a nice oil coating on it. You would be surprised how fast everything rusts when its bone dry. i routinely check underneath when doing oil changes and it looks horrible under there as i have zero oil leaks, rust everywhere.