Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[MrNineties]

You’re absolutely right. I should have known better. No bulletproofing but doing what I can. Rear main seal, decarb, pcv and full timing. Meh. If it dies again it’s getting sold. Done investing time into it as much as I love to rip around in it.

[dalmation53]

I disagree... i believe the B7s engine is more maintenance and more problematic.

news flash , you cant bullet proof the ea888 engine .. its a hug POS.

[mtroxel]

i believe the B7s engine is more maintenance and more problematic.

No way. The only big gottchas on that motor was that you had to stay on top of that cheesy cam follower, and there were some problems with the oil pickup. And as we all know by now, timing belts were a much better system.

[Charles.waite]

No way. The only big gottchas on that motor was that you had to stay on top of that cheesy cam follower, and there were some problems with the oil pickup. And as we all know by now, timing belts were a much better system.

The balance shaft/oil pump assembly is a joke. And a brand new assembly costs $1600....

[Novarider]

Can they really not come up with an efficient non-interferance engine?

[mtroxel]

Can they really not come up with an efficient non-interferance engine?

When you say "they" I think you mean "anyone"? Its a fair question. Is there an efficient non-interference motor any where out there?

[DrGER]

Another data point:

2014 A4Q CAED engine at 89k miles:

IDE00178 Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: specified value 28.000 °
IDE00179 Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: actual value 28.039 °
IDE00182 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1: phase position -4.13 °

For what it's worth; given the paucity of B9 6MTs in higher than Premium trim (that aren't some shade of black exterior), we'll likely keep this car for at least another year, so may be due for the timing chain R&R before too long...

[Theiceman]

I disagree... i believe the B7s engine is more maintenance and more problematic.

Naw . B7 will nickle and dime you but engine killers are somewhat rare. Oil pump is about it. Chain tensioner sure but rare and on high mileage
B8 chain tensioner are so bad they destroyed hundreds of thousands of engines and got sued.
Oil consumption so bad.... They got sued....
Plus they have balance shaft issues too.
B7 is a minor pain compared to this.

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[Novarider]

Naw . B7 will no kle and fine you but engine killers are somewhat rare. Oil pump is about it. Chain tensioner sure butvrste and in high mileage
B8 chain tensioner es do bad they destroyed hundreds of thousands of engines and got sued.
Oil consumption so bad.... They got sued....
Plus they have balance shaft issues too.
B7 is a minor pain compared to this.

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You drunk or something? Lol

[Theiceman]

Typing on my phone sucks....
I think I fixed it but you got in there first lol.
Gees you're fast

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[dalmation53]

Naw . B7 will nickle and dime you but engine killers are somewhat rare. Oil pump is about it. Chain tensioner sure but rare and on high mileage
B8 chain tensioner are so bad they destroyed hundreds of thousands of engines and got sued.
Oil consumption so bad.... They got sued....
Plus they have balance shaft issues too.
B7 is a minor pain compared to this.

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Bro Nickel and dime you penny by penny you get to the thousands territory...Cam follower wear, damaged HPFP, Damaged intake cam because of the damn follower,thermostat leaks on O-rings,oil pickup get clogged,oil pump is a bitch to replace,rear timing chain tensioner failing,oil filter gaskets leaks...if you are a diy person great but you imagine someone paying a shop all that in ln labor for a $2100 dollar value b7 lol think about it.

[dalmation53]

Plus on a B8 yeah do the timing chain once and don't worry about again. will last over 120k. and not every Ea888 engine has oil problems. I'm an unlucky one that does but 800 miles a quart is not awful like you were putting 1 quart per 150 miles haha the b8's are wayyyy more reliable.

[J0rgii]

https://ibb.co/Y2bxXnD


Let me have it

[Novarider]

https://ibb.co/Y2bxXnD


Let me have it

-8?!? Yeah that needs to be replaced. Sure hope it's at least the new tensioner.

[Theiceman]

https://ibb.co/Y2bxXnD


Let me have it

yeah you are due . i HAVE to believe that is a new tensioner.. i dont think we have seen an old one survive those numbers have we ?

[J0rgii]

yeah you are due . i HAVE to believe that is a new tensioner.. i dont think we have seen an old one survive those numbers have we ?

Yep, my heart sank to my stomach when I finally got to scan my car yesterday just thinking I was driving a potential engine nuke all this time. I was considering an engine rebuild by Aug but I think I'm done with this car. If I rebuild the engine what happens next...my transmission gives out??? It was fun while it lasted but I think I'm just going to sell it off and get a B7 or a GTI.

[Theiceman]

B7 ?

frying pan ----> fire

Golf R would be the go to car if you want to stick to German

[Charles.waite]

Hah. Going to a b7 you’re just trading one set of major issues for another. And as b7s get older and cheaper and higher in mileage, they become more disposable, so people aren’t going to give them the care the need to not have cam followers explode and take your engine with them.

Granted I love my b7, but you need to go in eyes wide open, it’s not really a reliable platform. You want something truly reliable, go all the way back to a b6.

[Theiceman]

Bro Nickel and dime you penny by penny you get to the thousands territory...Cam follower wear, damaged HPFP, Damaged intake cam because of the damn follower,thermostat leaks on O-rings,oil pickup get clogged,oil pump is a bitch to replace,rear timing chain tensioner failing,oil filter gaskets leaks...if you are a diy person great but you imagine someone paying a shop all that in ln labor for a $2100 dollar value b7 lol think about it.

true the value proposition isn't there if you cant diy . and that oil pump sure does suck .. really the sub frame, but yeah i hear ya.,

[J0rgii]

Hah. Going to a b7 you’re just trading one set of major issues for another. And as b7s get older and cheaper and higher in mileage, they become more disposable, so people aren’t going to give them the care the need to not have cam followers explode and take your engine with them.

Granted I love my b7, but you need to go in eyes wide open, it’s not really a reliable platform. You want something truly reliable, go all the way back to a b6.

Eff it Im going back to a 1.8t

[Theiceman]

i always wanted a v6 2.8 manual B5 .. could never find one, finally did , in the wreckers...

[Novarider]

i always wanted a v6 2.8 manual B5 .. could never find one, finally did , in the wreckers...

I want a B8.5 3.0T ZF8 Avant. I'll probably settle for an SQ5 and give my Avant to my wife.

[19birel]

i always wanted a v6 2.8 manual B5 .. could never find one, finally did , in the wreckers...

If you find a clean one they're cars worth owning. I had a B5 1.8T manual and it was such a fun car and very well built. Mine was very close to going to the wreckers when I bought it, but I breathed some life back into it. At one point I left it at home for a semester and asked my dad to drive it once every week or two to keep things right...he ended up daily driving it until winter because he liked it so much haha.

The 2.8s were pretty solid motors too

[GTA_G20]

Alright guys here's my contribution. Bought the car and all was well or so I thought. Started with longer and longer cranks to start until it just refused to start. Towed it to Audi and had a "friend" do some off the books diagnostics for me and this is what they came up with

AudiRep.jpg

So I'll assume after all the reading the turbo isnt bad and throws this code due to timing being off and not functioning correctly. But clearly I'm stretched and will have to find a place to take it to get sorted because thats not a job im willing to take on

After being sick and tired of looking at it, towed it to the shop this morning and did an adaptation as it was running yesterday with AC on, today its stumbling on its face and exactly why I wouldnt drive it like this

Audi12.jpg

Will follow up with the outcome

[mtroxel]

1. If you have any hope for this motor at all, stop driving it. Stop starting it. Seriously.
2. You need a timing chain job.
3. Your turbo is shot.
4. The guy who sold it to you knew about both #2 and #3. This is just fraud.
5. See a lawyer.

[GTA_G20]

I have another vehicle the car has sat for months. Its at the shop awaiting chain tensioner replacement

[pointledge]

So changed my timing chain and tensioner. P0016 code is gone but when I use the OBDEleven to monitor the Camshaft phase, I get a value between +12.5 and +13??? I opened everything back up and verified the timing is correct and still get this reading. What am I doing wrong?



Image viewable here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uxf...ew?usp=sharing

[mtroxel]

Sounds like you might be off a tooth and the ECU is compensating. Did you use the little doughnut thing to hold the crank sprocket in time? It's very easy for that to slip, and it would look like all your timing marks are perfect, but the cams would still be out of time with the crankshaft.

[pointledge]

I did use that doughnut tool. I'm trying to avoid opening the lower cover up, so today I put cylinder 1 at TDC by turning the engine over by hand with a hanger on the piston. Had to do two revolutions to get the camshaft marks on top. At TDC, both measurements were good. So with this known, even if the crank sprocket slipped, wouldn't the cams still be synchronized?

[Theiceman]

Show a picture behind the n205 solenoud..

Also how does it idle ?

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[pointledge]

Show a picture behind the n205 solenoud..

Also how does it idle ?

Car runs and idles smoothly. Doesn't appear to be anything wrong. I'll pull the N205 off today and grab a picture. What should I be looking for?

[Theiceman]

Just the valve in behind. If the centre pops out it can advance your timing.
If you were at tdc and your head measurements were in spec. ( the 64 and 125mm ones) then static is fine. There is something else going on .

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[Theiceman]

I did use that doughnut tool. I'm trying to avoid opening the lower cover up, so today I put cylinder 1 at TDC by turning the engine over by hand with a hanger on the piston. Had to do two revolutions to get the camshaft marks on top. At TDC, both measurements were good. So with this known, even if the crank sprocket slipped, wouldn't the cams still be synchronized?

Don't use observers bias .. do NOT look at the cam marks. Use a dial indicator on the crown of the piston in cylinder one.
Even just use a wooden dowel, turn tbe crank until the dowel is at the very top of stroke. It may take a few attempts to get it perfect (taking all plugs out makes it easier. )
Only when you feel it is at tdc cylinder one do you then look at the cam marks and measure. If you are out about 4-5mm on either of the measurements you are off a tooth.

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[pointledge]

Don't use observers bias .. do NOT look at the cam marks. Use a dial indicator on the crown of the piston in cylinder one.
Even just use a wooden dowel, turn tbe crank until the dowel is at the very top of stroke. It may take a few attempts to get it perfect (taking all plugs out makes it easier. )
Only when you feel it is at tdc cylinder one do you then look at the cam marks and measure. If you are out about 4-5mm on either of the measurements you are off a tooth.

Thanks, Iceman. I checked the measurements multiple times. To be clear, lacking a dial indicator and with all 4 plugs removed, I rotated the engine with one hand while feeling the the #1 piston movement with a straightened hanger. When I was satisfied it was at TDC, I used my calipers to measures the cam marks. I'm quite confident that my assessment of TDC was correct after doing this 3-4 times.

Of course, after reading GTA's post above and seeing his phase was +12 degrees, I'm second guessing myself. Thinking I may have no option but to remove the lower cover and set the timing all over again.

My P0016 code only faulted once and that occured after I replaced the camshaft position sensor. Originally got a code indicating a bad camshaft sensor, so replaced that, then the car through P0016 so I went through the timing chain/tensioner replacement process. I did note that the old tensioner I removed was the new style but I don't think it was OEM VW/Audi. I changed the timing chain and tensioner using OEM parts.

[Theiceman]

Thanks, Iceman. I checked the measurements multiple times. To be clear, lacking a dial indicator and with all 4 plugs removed, I rotated the engine with one hand while feeling the the #1 piston movement with a straightened hanger. When I was satisfied it was at TDC, I used my calipers to measures the cam marks. I'm quite confident that my assessment of TDC was correct after doing this 3-4 times.

Of course, after reading GTA's post above and seeing his phase was +12 degrees, I'm second guessing myself. Thinking I may have no option but to remove the lower cover and set the timing all over again.

My P0016 code only faulted once and that occured after I replaced the camshaft position sensor. Originally got a code indicating a bad camshaft sensor, so replaced that, then the car through P0016 so I went through the timing chain/tensioner replacement process. I did note that the old tensioner I removed was the new style but I don't think it was OEM VW/Audi. I changed the timing chain and tensioner using OEM parts.

so if you believe your static timing is correct do not take it part. look at the valve i mentioned.

[eljay]

Another data point for the thread:
2016 CPMB with 59,000 kms:
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: specified value: 28.000º
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: actual value: 27.867º
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: phase position: -1.85º
Coolant temperature at radiator output: specified value: 90.0ºC
Engine Oil temperature: 83.5ºC

So, still some life left on that chain it seems. Hopefully, I can double my mileage before needing to address it.

[Theiceman]

Another data point for the thread:
2016 CPMB with 59,000 kms:
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: specified value: 28.000º
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: actual value: 27.867º
Camshaft adjustment intake bank 1: phase position: -1.85º
Coolant temperature at radiator output: specified value: 90.0ºC
Engine Oil temperature: 83.5ºC

So, still some life left on that chain it seems. Hopefully, I can double my mileage before needing to address it.

Double it easily and then some...

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[planekiller1]

Suppose I'll add a data points 2012 A4 Avant
Purchased at 48k -0.02 deg
56k -1.22 deg
67k -2.04 deg
78k -2.80 deg
85k -3.06 deg
97k miles -3.4 Degrees.
Expecting to replace not this coming winter but the following.
Will continue checking every month to 2 months.

What I find is that the more launches you do the more drastic the increase in stretch which makes sense. Every launch is about .005 to .01 stretch
Never checked cam tensioner so assuming at 48k before I bought the car that it had the chain done honestly.
Consumption is also increasing slightly year by year started at 2.5k per quart and I'm at 1-1.5k per quart 4 years on.
-Kurt

[planekiller1]

Thanks, Iceman. I checked the measurements multiple times. To be clear, lacking a dial indicator and with all 4 plugs removed, I rotated the engine with one hand while feeling the the #1 piston movement with a straightened hanger. When I was satisfied it was at TDC, I used my calipers to measures the cam marks. I'm quite confident that my assessment of TDC was correct after doing this 3-4 times.

Of course, after reading GTA's post above and seeing his phase was +12 degrees, I'm second guessing myself. Thinking I may have no option but to remove the lower cover and set the timing all over again.

My P0016 code only faulted once and that occured after I replaced the camshaft position sensor. Originally got a code indicating a bad camshaft sensor, so replaced that, then the car through P0016 so I went through the timing chain/tensioner replacement process. I did note that the old tensioner I removed was the new style but I don't think it was OEM VW/Audi. I changed the timing chain and tensioner using OEM parts.

My buddy had this issue with this code after rebuilding turns out the crank sensor wiring was loosening up inside the connector his timing was set perfectly.
So with the accessory on check power into the cam position sensor (intake mani side) and crank sensor both should give you 5v or so.
We couldn't get a reading on the crank so knew we had an issue. His car was reading between -18.8 and -20.1 phase so I knew that one his motor wouldn't be running at those values and two there was a sensor issue somewhere.
-Kurt

[MyDimeIsUp]

Car has camshaft at -3.52. That seems to be ok until I reach about 4.1 - 4.2 when I should replace the timing chain, right? Car has 135,000 miles so I imagine it has been replaced or else it would be somewhere in the high 4s, correct?