Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation.

[Novarider]

This is weird.
NEW CHAIN under 50km on it and I'm at -1.25 Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1 : phase position
New Chain is 06K109158BE

Were the guides replaced when the chain/tensioner was?

[old guy]

Here are two very interesting articles. You will have to translate them once opened. The first article indicates the correct way to determine the tensioner extension: Clicky click®

The second article explains how you can have bit of phase adjustment even after replacing the chain and guides. This is because of the wear on the surface of the gear teeth. Clicky click-2®

[SDF1]

Here are two very interesting articles. You will have to translate them once opened. The first article indicates the correct way to determine the tensioner extension: Clicky click®

The second article explains how you can have bit of phase adjustment even after replacing the chain and guides. This is because of the wear on the surface of the gear teeth. Clicky click-2®

Awesome articules thank you.


Notes from tech. New Tensioner exist so they didn't need to replace old one (too late now, I wasn't happy about that)

Drained oil, Drained Coolant, Removed Freon (I dont know why he did that)
Removed bumper, disconnected harness on the front clip and put in service mode
Transmission coolant hose were sized, had to use heatgun to remove
Removed front end, uppper and lower timing chain covers
Set balance shaft at right timing and then installed new chain with all notches line up perfectly at TDC
Cleaned covers, put new caskets, cleaned block where gasket seals where.
Installed covers, Reinstalled harness, installed front end, put new cooland, put new oil and froen.
Road test good with no leaks.

06K109158BE Timing Chain
06H109469T Rail
N10572403 Screw
WHT001760 Screw
06H103483D Gasket
06H103483C Gasket
WHT007212B Seal Ring
WHT003463 Seal Ring
06H115418D Plug
06L103085B Seal
N91096702 Bolt
D174003M2 Seal
06J115403Q Oil Filter
G052167S0 Engine Oil
N0138495 Washer
G013A8J1G Collant AD
06H903341D Roller
4E0260749A Washer
4E0260749B Washer
N10255501 Clip


Also looks like the only replaced the upper rail

[mtroxel]

Drained oil, Drained Coolant, Removed Freon (I dont know why he did that)

Yea I think most of us just cut the plastic on the radiator carrier and move the condenser out of the way.

[Theiceman]

Yea I think most of us just cut the plastic on the radiator carrier and move the condenser out of the way.

Yuppers. I even showed what part to cut in my rebuild thread I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[A.K.]

Reporting back after taking some readings, car is a 2012 Avant with 173 000KM.

No clue what the tensioner looks like
Camshaft adaptation at -6.33....curiously it was sitting at -5.33 for a moment until I added the the coolant temp measuring block.


Needless to say chains, guides , Cam bridge filter, tensioner, seals and lower timing cover will be replaced within the next few weeks!

[Theiceman]

^ yup looks like you caught it at a good time ...
i would not be panicking at that but at your mileage and those numbers change is in order.

you doing it at an independent ? The dealers here in Canada I find are outrageously expensive.

Oh btw when i warmed my car up it was 7.4 , i decided to go for a good long drive and got home it was 8.3 or something so i saw basically the same thing you did.

[A.K.]

Doing the work myself, that said I was unusually heavy on the gas for the whole commute before I got to do the readings just to see what my upper limit readings would be..... coolant temp is sitting at 102 which is hot!!

^ yup looks like you caught it at a good time ...
i would not be panicking at that but at your mileage and those numbers change is in order.

you doing it at an independent ? The dealers here in Canada I find are outrageously expensive.

Oh btw when i warmed my car up it was 7.4 , i decided to go for a good long drive and got home it was 8.3 or something so i saw basically the same thing you did.

[Theiceman]

Doing the work myself, that said I was unusually heavy on the gas for the whole commute before I got to do the readings just to see what my upper limit readings would be..... coolant temp is sitting at 102 which is hot!!

its actually a pretty fun project, but you want to take your time and not be under any time pressure thats for sure.

[gnxuser]

I am at 5.3 at 53K on a 2012 A4. I guess I will be looking to get this done sooner than later.

[Spawne32]

So its been over a year since replacing my chain/tensioner etc, heres where I am at.

[old guy]

Nice!! How many miles since replacement?

[Novarider]

I need to check mine again as well.

[misiak]

I just checked mine last night, 20K kms after full rebuild: -2.94

[mtroxel]

Just took mine. Completely warmed up motor at idle. After 27,914 miles, my revised chain is still in the positive.



So this is my history on a new chain:

chain miles 11,045 = .46°
chain miles 15,845 = .35°
chain miles 20,445 = .29°
chain miles 27,914 = .18°

[Theiceman]

Yea I think most of us just cut the plastic on the radiator carrier and move the condenser out of the way.

yup , but give this mech his dues , he did it right , he didnt butcher it like we do :)

[Theiceman]

is it just me or does anyone else have the means to , but just doesnt wanna look ? lol

[misiak]

Just took mine. Completely warmed up motor at idle. After 27,914 miles, my revised chain is still in the positive.



So this is my history on a new chain:

chain miles 11,045 = .46°
chain miles 15,845 = .35°
chain miles 20,445 = .29°
chain miles 27,914 = .18°

So is it possible my timing is off based on the fact I have less miles and am already in the negative? I am fighting a hesitation issue, how many degrees can the ECU compensate for?

[Charles.waite]

One tooth equates to like 15° or something so unless your phase is worse than that you’re not going to be off a tooth.

[Theiceman]

So is it possible my timing is off based on the fact I have less miles and am already in the negative? I am fighting a hesitation issue, how many degrees can the ECU compensate for?

I was off 8.5 degrees and it ran fine, did not skip a beat...

[mtroxel]

So is it possible my timing is off based on the fact I have less miles and am already in the negative?

My car is a unicorn. Most everyone is in the negative. Get to -7° before you get too excited. Theiceman must have made a deal with the devil at -8.5°

[Theiceman]

My car is a unicorn. Most everyone is in the negative. Get to -7° before you get too excited. Theiceman must have made a deal with the devil at -8.5°

Important to note this was on a new style tensioner. Old style I would not have been so lucky.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[old guy]

One tooth equates to like 15° or something so unless your phase is worse than that you’re not going to be off a tooth.

7.8°

Clicky click®

[Spawne32]

Nice!! How many miles since replacement?

about 12k or so, which i guess seems to be on par with typical stretch for any of the chain revisions, but I used bremmen parts from ECS instead of OEM because....fuck oem prices.

[dzeb]

Hello all, got an a4 2013, 155kw 132k km(~80k miles). 182 channel was showing ~6.2°, got chain replaced and all tensioners replaced, and now it says -4.48°. Do i miss something here,but should it not be ~0° after chain replacement?

[Theiceman]

Hello all, got an a4 2013, 155kw 132k km(~80k miles). 182 channel was showing ~6.2°, got chain replaced and all tensioners replaced, and now it says -4.48°. Do i miss something here,but should it not be ~0° after chain replacement?

yup most of us sit at less than -1 on a new chain , and the -1 is usually caused by worn teeth on the drive gears on the cams and main sprocket. Shocking to see -4.48 on new chain and tensioners. I dont know what to say other than did you get your old parts back ? most of us replace chain, tensioner and guides, although im not sure guides make much difference. I hope they got that main drive sprocket on properly and in the right location.

Is this a reputable shop ? if i was the shop owner or tech i think i would be rechecking my work.

[dzeb]

yup most of us sit at less than -1 on a new chain , and the -1 is usually caused by worn teeth on the drive gears on the cams and main sprocket. Shocking to see -4.48 on new chain and tensioners. I dont know what to say other than did you get your old parts back ? most of us replace chain, tensioner and guides, although im not sure guides make much difference. I hope they got that main drive sprocket on properly and in the right location.

Is this a reputable shop ? if i was the shop owner or tech i think i would be rechecking my work.

It was done in independent garage, tensioners, guides and chains were changed. I saw old parts in the box but i have left it all in the garage. Im not sure how good are mechanics in the garage, but they do these kind of jobs once in a while. If all parts are new what can cause this? as you said main drive sprocket can be not in the right place? thanks

EDIT:

Before chain replacement i had this fault like this twice:

2796 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake)
P000A 00 [096] - Slow Response
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 130731 km
Date: 2019.04.26
Time: 18:00:20

Engine speed: 1935.50 /min
Normed load value: 35.3 %
Vehicle speed: 122 km/h
Coolant temperature: 99 °C
Intake air temperature: 35 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.253 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Median injection timing: 2.355 ms
Engine operating condition: Part. load
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

2795 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 00 [236] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 130727 km
Date: 2019.04.26
Time: 17:58:14

Engine speed: 1930.50 /min
Normed load value: 31.4 %
Vehicle speed: 122 km/h
Coolant temperature: 99 °C
Intake air temperature: 35 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.277 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Median injection timing: 2.160 ms
Engine operating condition: Part. load
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

What i have read it might be a problem with camshaft adjuster bridge ( TT 01-15-08 document from WV/AUDI explains about it). But i have asked mechanic to check it and he said all was good. Can it be related somehow?

[Theiceman]

It was done in independent garage, tensioners, guides and chains were changed. I saw old parts in the box but i have left it all in the garage. Im not sure how good are mechanics in the garage, but they do these kind of jobs once in a while. If all parts are new what can cause this? as you said main drive sprocket can be not in the right place? thanks

EDIT:

Before chain replacement i had this fault like this twice:

2796 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake)
P000A 00 [096] - Slow Response
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 130731 km
Date: 2019.04.26
Time: 18:00:20

Engine speed: 1935.50 /min
Normed load value: 35.3 %
Vehicle speed: 122 km/h
Coolant temperature: 99 °C
Intake air temperature: 35 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.253 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Median injection timing: 2.355 ms
Engine operating condition: Part. load
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

2795 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 00 [236] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 130727 km
Date: 2019.04.26
Time: 17:58:14

Engine speed: 1930.50 /min
Normed load value: 31.4 %
Vehicle speed: 122 km/h
Coolant temperature: 99 °C
Intake air temperature: 35 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.277 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Median injection timing: 2.160 ms
Engine operating condition: Part. load
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

What i have read it might be a problem with camshaft adjuster bridge ( TT 01-15-08 document from WV/AUDI explains about it). But i have asked mechanic to check it and he said all was good. Can it be related somehow?

Before i got to the end of your post i was thinking camshaft bridge also .. It has a small screen that often breaks off.. if this screen travels down the head and gets stuck in one of the oil galleries for cam advancement it can cause issues like you are describing and slow the response. Not saying this is what it is but it is a possibility.
When i did mine i found the piece of the screen stuck in the head at the front and picked it out.

i would say at over 4 degrees on all those brand new parts something is just not right . The timing should be dead on perfect or close to it. yes it is possible to put the crank sprocket in a slightly wrong spot and overide the keyway that is built in as it is very small , there have been incidents of that here with pics.
If we assume he did the job right then we have to assume the problem is somewhere else.
I think all you can do at this point is wait and see if those error codes come back.

i would be interested in hearing others thoughts also.

[dzeb]

Thanks for your opinion. Any way i will give a call to this guy tomorrow, and will ask what he thinks about it all. Its my first time petrol car in a while, since i was driving diesels mainly, so my knowledge is limited. Another thing which i have noticed. Before timing chain change i had very tiny vibration/pulsation then car is was idling, its nothing special but i was not butter smooth, same on hard acceleration, sometimes it felt like very small pulsation(or how to call it). Just after i took a car from a garage all these symptoms were gone, idle was butter smooth same with acceleration. But later today, i decided to check timing correction with vcds, and i felt that pulsation was back, also i saw 4 degrees. Something is definitely not right.

[Betq]

Also finally got around to checking my car yesterday and I'm around -1.3 on a 2012 car with 48.5k miles which I pretty good im guessing.

[Chillaxin]

Doing the work myself, that said I was unusually heavy on the gas for the whole commute before I got to do the readings just to see what my upper limit readings would be..... coolant temp is sitting at 102 which is hot!!

Drain the coolant, remove the condenser coils to move to the side, and remove the whole front lock carrier. Don't attempt this job with the lock carrier in the service position (that's what I did and it was a pain, especially to clean the lower cover mating surface, and to torque all the lower cover bolts in sequence.)

[Theiceman]

Thanks for your opinion. Any way i will give a call to this guy tomorrow, and will ask what he thinks about it all. Its my first time petrol car in a while, since i was driving diesels mainly, so my knowledge is limited. Another thing which i have noticed. Before timing chain change i had very tiny vibration/pulsation then car is was idling, its nothing special but i was not butter smooth, same on hard acceleration, sometimes it felt like very small pulsation(or how to call it). Just after i took a car from a garage all these symptoms were gone, idle was butter smooth same with acceleration. But later today, i decided to check timing correction with vcds, and i felt that pulsation was back, also i saw 4 degrees. Something is definitely not right.

yes you are exactly right ... when adaption becomes too much you feel a very slight vibration at idle. When its fixed you would not know car is even running...
The other problem of not getting the alignment on the crank sprocket correct is that it is not sitting properly and the crank bolt can back out destroying the engine. Definitely talk it over with the tech.

[dzeb]

yes you are exactly right ... when adaption becomes too much you feel a very slight vibration at idle. When its fixed you would not know car is even running...
The other problem of not getting the alignment on the crank sprocket correct is that it is not sitting properly and the crank bolt can back out destroying the engine. Definitely talk it over with the tech.

Spoke with mechanic today. He said that its very strange, and we agreed that i will drive a car till Monday and will it bring back car to a garage. As i understand its possible to check timing mechanically by removing front plastic cover. Im starting to think, what if mechanically timing will be good, can camshaft bridge be a problem? i mean if all parts in the camshaft bridge are in place, can this small cylinder inside of it be faulty and cause timing to be bad? Also mechanic said that camshaft bridge was fine, will all parts in place, i just asked about it to be sure. Another thing. After sometime of driving i have stopped the engine. And started it again. timing was about 3.7, but after slight acceleration it went to ~4.4, and stayed there, can it move it like that? engine was hot.

[Buckyoufuddy]

2012, 91k, checked 3x in last 1k miles.

2 were -2.90

Today -2.61

[bluefox280]

Time to really skew the data with my car...

Car: 2013 Allroad flex-fuel
- original chain and tensioner; no service completed on those components; synthetic oil change every ~4K miles
Mileage: 75169 miles
Camshaft Phase: -1.03 degrees





- Erik

[JBallroad8.5]

2015 Allroad, just south of 70K miles on original chain, flex fuel, synthetic oil every 4-5K. Just measured mine today using OBD 11, read -1.62 and then -1.91 later for the phase position. Was measured after 35 minute drive home from work.

Based on this thread it appears I should be alright. With that, I wanted thoughts on timing chain replacement and APR tune. I was waiting to get the APR tune until after my CPO warranty would cover the timing chain but unless something drastically changes, that might be longer than I had originally thought. I would think the tune would void the warranty fix for the timing chain? when would timing chain be bad enough for dealer to replace? Any inputs or thoughts are appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[EMark]

Hi guys, this is my first post here, I'd say congrats for this amazing forum, and this very useful thread.

I have Audi A4 B8 2009 1.8 TFSI 118KW, I'm trying to check the chain tensioner, because I have no idea of its condition, but so far quite unsuccessful.

I have OBDEleven, the pro version, but I cannot find this measurement (Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position) in the drop down list, under engine's live data. Yesterday I went over the whole app, again, for the second time, and it seems is missing.

So, or the app is not working properly, or I'm having an issue with the car. Hopefully someone could know and will help.

Here is what I see:

[Theiceman]

Hi guys, this is my first post here, I'd say congrats for this amazing forum, and this very useful thread.

I have Audi A4 B8 2009 1.8 TFSI 118KW, I'm trying to check the chain tensioner, because I have no idea of its condition, but so far quite unsuccessful.

I have OBDEleven, the pro version, but I cannot find this measurement (Camshaft adaptation intake bank 1, phase position) in the drop down list, under engine's live data. Yesterday I went over the whole app, again, for the second time, and it seems is missing.

So, or the app is not working properly, or I'm having an issue with the car. Hopefully someone could know and will help.

Here is what I see:

I don't even recognize that engine. This thread is about the 2.0t

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[mtroxel]

I don't even recognize that engine. This thread is about the 2.0t

Yea my guess is that it's a version of that motor they sold in Europe. One of the .pdf's in my repair manual starts with this. Sure looks like Audi considers it the same motor.

[EMark]

Yea my guess is that it's a version of that motor they sold in Europe. One of the .pdf's in my repair manual starts with this. Sure looks like Audi considers it the same motor.

Guys, the engine is absolutely the same, the difference is in the displacement. Even the timing chain and all other parts around the chain are the same. You can check in google, it is easy to find information. The engine code is CDHB.