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  1. #81
    Established Member Two Rings rgobantes23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlisoA4 View Post
    I’d like to know:

    What is the specific change Google has made, which makes the MY2018 Audi hardware obsolete?

    Why was MY2018 cars not designed to be update-able?

    To me, the Google Earth overlays are a BIG DEAL and not just flash. It’s what makes the navigation so intuitive to use and it was a significant part of why I bought the car



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    Several people on this thread have asked for additional details but no details have been provided.

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  2. #82
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    Here is what I believe is happening:

    - Audi is changing the MMI OS from QNX (BlackBerry's POSIX-based Real Time OS) to Google's Embedded Android for Automotive, which is based upon Android 7.
    - The current MMI hardware (nVidia Tegra 3) does not support past Android 6, so it will not be able to run Embedded Android. This kind of matches what Vincenzo said, "Yes, you are correct Audi vehicles were initially manufactured to support Google Earth, but Google has since created a new software update in which the hardware in older vehicles will no longer be compatible with." The new hardware, introduced in the 2018 A8, is the Tegra X1.
    - My guess is that the change in OS means the Google Earth overlay tiles are handled differently, and therefore packaged differently than under QNX.
    - MY19 and newer Audis will have newer the new Tegra X1 MMI hardware that supports Android 7, and therefore Embedded Android.
    - Audi has apparently decided to support both tile packages for a limited period of time (2 yrs). After that, they will only support the newer tile packaging.

    Buried in there somewhere may be that the current map engine, HERE (ex NAVTEQ), is being changed to Google Maps as part of the move to Embedded Android. I don't know that to be true.

  3. #83
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    If anything, Audi would be moving the map engine to HERE since they now own it along with BMW and Mercedes. The new A8 switched over to HERE maps.

    One of the big reasons behind it is they now control the data collected and can do what they want with it instead of Google.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnEnglish View Post
    If anything, Audi would be moving the map engine to HERE since they now own it along with BMW and Mercedes. The new A8 switched over to HERE maps.

    One of the big reasons behind it is they now control the data collected and can do what they want with it instead of Google.
    So what's to stop an MMI update from being released that uses HERE on the older generations?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronRR View Post
    So what's to stop an MMI update from being released that uses HERE on the older generations?
    Speculating:

    From a technical point of view? Probably nothing

    From a business point of view: How much is Audi willing to spend engineering a solution?

    My guess is the answer to the latter is “not very much”




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  6. #86
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    I would expect that they do nothing to help rectify this situation. I had an A6 that had the modem upgrade due to T-Mobile switching network equipment, but Audi only replaced them due to T-Mobile paying for it. I believe that they charged T-Mobile for each modem upgrade. That is effectively what they would need to do here, do a hardware upgrade by installing a new MMI processor board. Since Audi would have to pay for this, it will never happen. They most likely will never mention anything about it moving forward, other than a final notice in 2 years telling us that it is going away in 2018 models and older. Of course, I would be surprised if we even get that, since they have known about this for a while now and failed to tell any 2018 model buyers that Google Earth will go away at the end of 2020. They will continue to advertise Google Earth using the Virtual Cockpit as a major selling point all the way until the 2018 models are gone, as I just got my S4 3 months ago and was never told anything about it.

    I have already stated my displeasure with this in this thread already and emailed Audi about it. I just read the above though, of which seemed similar to the T-Mobile network upgrade issue and me having my modem replaced in my A6.

    It would be nice if something happened to where we could get an updated MMI processor card, but I doubt Audi even cares and won't it acknowledge otherwise. Truly disappointing...

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronRR View Post
    So what's to stop an MMI update from being released that uses HERE on the older generations?
    Quote Originally Posted by AlisoA4 View Post
    Speculating:

    From a technical point of view? Probably nothing

    From a business point of view: How much is Audi willing to spend engineering a solution?

    My guess is the answer to the latter is “not very much”
    There could be hardware issues since the new HERE maps systems in the A8 are running on the Tegra X1. I think only the A8 has HERE maps even thought the new A6, A7, Q7, and Q8 use the Tegra X1.

    That said, I can't see Audi offering an upgrade to all compatible navigation systems. It would a be a logistical nightmare.

  8. #88
    Established Member Two Rings rgobantes23's Avatar
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    Lots of speculations going around. Obviously Audi does not want to broadly announce this VC change in 2018 and risk its 2018 sales target. But I still wish Audi would just come clean since Audi car owners will be on the losing end of this issue.

    On January 1, 2021 a set of new upset Audi owners will be voicing their frustration when their vehicles no longer get Google Maps overlay and Audi Connect automatically renewed and charged their credit cards (and non-refundable).

    Mercedes-Benz is now expanding its own version of virtual cockpit to all models. Jaguar and BMW are just releasing their own versions. Pretty soon Audi's VC technology edge will be gone.

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  9. #89
    Active Member One Ring Doc H's Avatar
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    The 2019 BMW X5 has all the features I bought the Q7 for, with a long history of functional and reliable iDrive and Connect; in my more than 40 year history with BMW they never removed any features from my cars, and supported existing functionality throughout my ownership period. Apparently brand loyalty isn't in Audi's business model, and I'm OK with that as long as I now know it. I'll know what to do at my next trade-in.

  10. #90
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    Just read all of the posts. Pretty interested in why hardware is the issue.
    The google earth overlay is just an image set. Yes, the web api could change but that would just be a software update if Audi really wanted to deal with it.



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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigj505 View Post
    Just read all of the posts. Pretty interested in why hardware is the issue.
    The google earth overlay is just an image set. Yes, the web api could change but that would just be a software update if Audi really wanted to deal with it.



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    I couldn’t agree more


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  12. #92
    Senior Member Two Rings holmes4's Avatar
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    I just popped in here after a while and read this - it's the first I have heard of it. I have a 2013 allroad with Google Earth and I will be very disappointed if that goes away. (I saw someone reference a T-Mobile issue with their MY13 car that drops to 2G, but I haven't seen that - yet. A lot of carriers are dropping 2G entirely.)
    Steve

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  13. #93
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    There should be an available HW upgrade if truly needed. If it's just a breaking API change for Google Earth/sat maps then a software update alone should fix it. I hope the community manager is listening.

    You can still make money without forcing owners to take huge losses on tradeins. Just charge a reasonable fee for the upgrade. I don't mind paying for upgraded functionality if new HW is required, just give me a path that doesn't involving losing tens of thousands of dollars.

    I have an '18 TTRS and seeing this break, and new mapping software come out with no upgrade path is frustrating. The old model of planned obsolescence to force tradeins and upgrades needs to go. There's no technical reason for it, and those of us who understand technology will jump ship because of it, as we can see the greed that drives these decisions.

  14. #94
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    Very very well put. I couldn't agree more.
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  15. #95
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    Well this is unfortunate. I've only had my Audi for just over a year and Google Earth will be gone within two. A downgrade so soon. You think you're paying the premium for an Audi because the service, performance, and maintenance will be phenomenal....

    I do have a question - the live traffic for the Navigation works well, it is usually right in step with Waze on rerouting me. Will the live traffic continue to operate as usual?
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  16. #96
    Established Member Two Rings ZeGerman_A4's Avatar
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    Audi,
    You manage to push me each day a little more towards another brand!!!
    You should fix this for 2018 below as this was part of the package when the cars were purchased. Period!


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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by QS4 View Post
    This is amazing! There are so many things running through my mind regarding these issues I don't know where to begin! My Audi Connect has been downgraded from 3G to 2G speed in my '13 because T-Mobile made some hardware changes to their equipment. Audi's solution was a discriminative plan that was great if you were lucky enough to be granted the free part & labor. After 2 attempts to get my upgrade, AoA says my car is not eligible! Funny, the 2G on my display and the WiFi hotspot that is now cold says something different! Don't get me started! (too late!)
    Tell me about it! I purchased a 2 year Audi Connect subscription almost immediately after picking up my 2013 CPO Allroad near the end of 2015. The local dealer denied that there ever was an upgrade (despite having a copy of the TSB) and refused to help in any way even at my cost for the part (was still available) and labor. I had to raise hell with Audi/T-Mobile to cancel the week old subscription.

    Fast forward to the end of 2017 and there was roughly a one month period where the modem upgrade was covered under warranty under a new TSB number. Of course there was no announcement or reaching out to owners that previously attempted to receive the upgrade.

    After sourcing the upgraded modem myself (with the help of others on this forum) the next closest dealer stated they would be willing to perform the software/firmware upgrade for the new modem provided they install the part and I pay for labor. I scheduled this along with my 45k service and when I picked up the car the upgrade was not done and the dealer pretty much said too bad.

    I've given up. It's not worth fighting it any more. Audi won and I've been left with an extremely upsetting experience that will not be forgotten. As much as I love the Allroad otherwise (and the 05 Jetta I've had since new) I will be looking elsewhere when it comes time to replace the Allroad.
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  18. #98
    Established Member Two Rings Comfy Pursuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ormandj View Post
    There should be an available HW upgrade if truly needed. If it's just a breaking API change for Google Earth/sat maps then a software update alone should fix it. I hope the community manager is listening.

    You can still make money without forcing owners to take huge losses on tradeins. Just charge a reasonable fee for the upgrade. I don't mind paying for upgraded functionality if new HW is required, just give me a path that doesn't involving losing tens of thousands of dollars.

    I have an '18 TTRS and seeing this break, and new mapping software come out with no upgrade path is frustrating. The old model of planned obsolescence to force tradeins and upgrades needs to go. There's no technical reason for it, and those of us who understand technology will jump ship because of it, as we can see the greed that drives these decisions.
    Spot on.

    Owning a ‘15 SQ5 and Allroad, I’m severely disappointed in hearing this. There must be a way to allow upgrades for hardware to retain the overlay..

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthea View Post
    Well this is unfortunate. I've only had my Audi for just over a year and Google Earth will be gone within two. A downgrade so soon. You think you're paying the premium for an Audi because the service, performance, and maintenance will be phenomenal....

    I do have a question - the live traffic for the Navigation works well, it is usually right in step with Waze on rerouting me. Will the live traffic continue to operate as usual?
    Live traffic is independent of the Google Earth overlay. The traffic information is either supplied by INRIX (2016 and later A4, A5 and any other car remodeled since 2016) or SiriusXM. In the case of Sirius you need to keep your Sirius traffic subscription active, in the case of INRIX you need to have an active Audi Connect subscription.

  20. #100
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    How can I tell? I don't think I have either of those things. I have a Sirius account for the radio but don't think I signed up for traffic
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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthea View Post
    How can I tell? I don't think I have either of those things. I have a Sirius account for the radio but don't think I signed up for traffic
    We can’t help if we don’t know the year and model of your Audi. All we know from your signature is that you have an 05 Subaru.

  22. #102
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    Do you not see my forum signature? This is below every post I make, but with colors:

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    The left side under my avatar shows the vehicle in my garage, my LGT.

    Anyway, I appreciate any help able to be provided.
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  23. #103
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    Sorry, I did not notice the car in the Signature. I just saw what was in the avatar. I think your car gets traffic from Sirius XM but you should probably ask this question on the B8 forum.

  24. #104
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    Thanks, will do!
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  25. #105
    Established Member Two Rings rgobantes23's Avatar
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    I noticed something new today. MY 17 to MY 20 vehicles may no longer receive Audi Connect services by the end of 2021. Not just Google Earth overlay, but the entire Audi Connect services. At least Audi is giving warning this time.
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    Last edited by rgobantes23; 10-16-2018 at 08:56 PM. Reason: reattaching photo - not uploading
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  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgobantes23 View Post
    I noticed something new today. MY 17 to MY 20 vehicles may no longer receive Audi Connect services by the end of 2021. Not just Google Earth overlay, but the entire Audi Connect services. At least Audi is giving warning this time.
    Saw this too. The attachment isn't working (pending approval) but if it's the same thing I saw, here's what it states:

    "Connect services are subject to technologies remaining commercially available, such services are not guaranteed, and may not be available after 2021 for equipped MY17-20 vehicles."

    It read like a disclaimer they are relying on third party providers who only have a 3 year SLA for their APIs. This means it may not break, or it may break.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgobantes23 View Post
    I noticed something new today. MY 17 to MY 20 vehicles may no longer receive Audi Connect services by the end of 2021. Not just Google Earth overlay, but the entire Audi Connect services. At least Audi is giving warning this time.
    These systems need to be designed in a way that the software can be upgraded at no/minimal cost and the hardware, if needed, can be upgraded at a reasonable cost to the owner. Audi markets the crap out of this technology. Do they expect people to buy a new car every three years? These aren't smartphones, they're $40-120k+ purchases. I would have zero interest in a 3 year old CPO if I was told the advertised features of the car were no longer available and there was nothing they could do about it.
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  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaGetUpandGo View Post
    These systems need to be designed in a way that the software can be upgraded at no/minimal cost and the hardware, if needed, can be upgraded at a reasonable cost to the owner. Audi markets the crap out of this technology. Do they expect people to buy a new car every three years? These aren't smartphones, they're $40-120k+ purchases. I would have zero interest in a 3 year old CPO if I was told the advertised features of the car were no longer available and there was nothing they could do about it.
    Couldn’t agree more


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  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaGetUpandGo View Post
    These systems need to be designed in a way that the software can be upgraded at no/minimal cost and the hardware, if needed, can be upgraded at a reasonable cost to the owner. Audi markets the crap out of this technology. Do they expect people to buy a new car every three years? These aren't smartphones, they're $40-120k+ purchases. I would have zero interest in a 3 year old CPO if I was told the advertised features of the car were no longer available and there was nothing they could do about it.
    I agree 1000000%. They are trying to push people toward treating these cars like TVs or phones.
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  30. #110
    Established Member Two Rings rgobantes23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ormandj View Post
    Saw this too. The attachment isn't working (pending approval)
    Yes, it is the same statement. I am not sure why it is not showing. I even tried to upload a new file and the same result. I hope it is not being censored.


    Quote Originally Posted by JettaGetUpandGo View Post
    These systems need to be designed in a way that the software can be upgraded at no/minimal cost and the hardware, if needed, can be upgraded at a reasonable cost to the owner.
    If Audi really cares for its customers this is how they should handle technology in the cars they sell.
    Last edited by rgobantes23; 10-16-2018 at 09:11 PM.
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  31. #111
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    I'm very happy I read this prior to purchasing a 2018 RS3...put in an order for 2019 it is.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossEisley View Post
    I'm very happy I read this prior to purchasing a 2018 RS3...put in an order for 2019 it is.
    From above: "Connect services are subject to technologies remaining commercially available, such services are not guaranteed, and may not be available after 2021 for equipped MY17-20 vehicles."
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  33. #113
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    Hey Audi, if you are following this thread... and if you care one iota about your customers:

    Tech such as Google Earth which IS SOLD WITH THE VEHICLE must remain usable for the service life of the vehicle. It must be updatable.

    You sell a premium product. The ownership experience must also be premium.

    The cavalier attitude of “it may or may not be available” is unacceptable.


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  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JettaGetUpandGo View Post
    From above: "Connect services are subject to technologies remaining commercially available, such services are not guaranteed, and may not be available after 2021 for equipped MY17-20 vehicles."
    I can respect it not being guaranteed vs. it flat won't.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlisoA4 View Post
    Hey Audi, if you are following this thread... and if you care one iota about your customers:

    Tech such as Google Earth which IS SOLD WITH THE VEHICLE must remain usable for the service life of the vehicle. It must be updatable.

    You sell a premium product. The ownership experience must also be premium.

    The cavalier attitude of “it may or may not be available” is unacceptable.


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    I wouldn't be surprised if there will be some sort of class action associated with this.. time will tell.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossEisley View Post
    I can respect it not being guaranteed vs. it flat won't.
    I guess I'm a bit more cynical... "may not" sounds an awful lot like corporate legalese for "will not". It's a legal loophole.
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  37. #117
    Established Member Two Rings rgobantes23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossEisley View Post
    I'm very happy I read this prior to purchasing a 2018 RS3...put in an order for 2019 it is.
    Audi dealers here in the DC area just got shipments of 2019 Q7s. I am not sure what changes Audi made to the virtual cockpit. The pictures online show the 2019 Q7 virtual cockpit looks the same as the 2018 model year virtual cockpit. It does not look like the higher resolution virtual cockpit shown on the 2019 Q3, Q8, A6, A7 and A9 which has more white/gray color on the RPM/speedometer circles.

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  38. #118
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    Gotta be honest and say I am not a fan of this self deflating tech that is now in cars. Unlike a lot of things, not even the hardware can be partially upgraded to fill the gaps between the cars I buy.

    So with this said, I don’t need or want much because why get attached to things that instead of getting better, go away?

    Seems that Audi would be wise to get ahead of this somehow, losing a feature they advertised so heavily across that many cars is a potential customer loyalty and PR nightmare.

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    2015 Audi RS7, Prism Silver.
    2012 Audi A4 Prestige, Brilliant Black, APR Stage-1, sold
    2005 Toyota Tacoma 4WD, stage-3, 407HP

  39. #119
    Veteran Member Four Rings CyberPMG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2004
    AZ Member #
    806
    My Garage
    2004 A4 1.8T Ultrasport 6MQ
    Location
    Stow, OH

    Wouldn't the ending of Google Earth be a breach of contract for those vehicles still under some form of official Audi warranty? Is this an issue only with Audi or are other manufacturers having to deal with the same issue?

    With my 2015 S5, I have the latest firmware, but wonder if there's any way to get the maps updated?
    USP CLUB MEMBER #34

    2004 A4 1.8T USP - GT2871R Eliminator - Motoza program - Over 370k miles!
    2015 S5 - Sepang Blue - 6spd w/ Sport Diff - stock(ish)

  40. #120
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Apr 05 2012
    AZ Member #
    91253
    Location
    Earth

    No it's not a breach of contract. Audi doesn't say anywhere that they guarantee the service for X number of years or anything like that.

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