...and thats all she wrote ....

[Theiceman]

i've been doing research as I hate asking stuff that is already published. I have come to the conclusion that photbucket has really fvcked us all over !!

that is all ''

[a4lownslow]

Of course the problem now is i dont know where the exhaust cam is supposed to be. So i will have to put 4 wood dowels in the holes for the plugs and see if i can carefully manipulate the Cam back into position without damaging any valves.
I am also going to visit a machine shop and see if they can drill out and press a new pin into the cam adjuster. If they can im going to put the tensioner, chain , cam adjuster back in with some advice I’ve been getting from you tube. So i can do a more traditional compression test.

Just a question that has me. Confused . Is it cylinder 1 or 4 that is supposed to be at tdc when using the tool ?


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I think you just mixed up your wording in your last two post, but to clarify exhaust cam is driven off timing belt and intake cam by the chain.

As far as getting the intake cam back into position you could always pop off the timing belt, set the crank mid stroke, and then adjust your intake cam without worry of interference. Then insert the cam lock tool and bring the crank back up to TDC and install the belt.

The last part of your question, your intake camshaft lobes for cylinder #4 should be pointing inwards mirroring the exhaust cam lobes at TDC. Pistons 1 and 4 are companion cylinders so both will be at TDC at the same time.


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[Theiceman]

I think you just mixed up your wording in your last two post, but to clarify exhaust cam is driven off timing belt and intake cam by the chain.

As far as getting the intake cam back into position you could always pop off the timing belt, set the crank mid stroke, and then adjust your intake cam without worry of interference. Then insert the cam lock tool and bring the crank back up to TDC and install the belt.

The last part of your question, your intake camshaft lobes for cylinder #4 should be pointing inwards mirroring the exhaust cam lobes at TDC. Pistons 1 and 4 are companion cylinders so both will be at TDC at the same time.


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Yes you are right of course I mixed it up . I will correct. I am going to try it with leaving the timing belt on as I know the exhaust is set perfect so I just need to play with intake. I am going to play with your mid stroke idea though using my bobing dowels technique :)

[Theiceman]

okay just found some info you guys may know already

You put the copper coloured chain link on the tooth on the exhaust tooth that has the line ( its actually on the adjuster )
then you wrap around the chain and the intake tooth with the dot on it goes between link 9 and 10. This is the ultimate alignment.

this is interesting stuff really

[a4lownslow]

okay just found some info you guys may know already

You put the copper coloured chain link on the tooth on the exhaust tooth that has the line ( its actually on the adjuster )
then you wrap around the chain and the intake tooth with the dot on it goes between link 9 and 10. This is the ultimate alignment.

this is interesting stuff really

I never knew that, and really good information. Like you said earlier it’s possible for the factory cam lock tool to fit and intake cam to still be out a tooth..

Prevents any guess work, thanks for sharing!


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[Theiceman]

I never knew that, and really good information. Like you said earlier it’s possible for the factory cam lock tool to fit and intake cam to still be out a tooth..

Prevents any guess work, thanks for sharing!


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Well it was on the internet so i’m assuming it is true.
If my engine explodes into a million bits i might retract the statement


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[Brillo]

Well, if #4 is at TDC so is #1. #2 and #3 are at BDC so there is no chance of valve interference for #2 and #3. So rotate the intake cam in a direction such that it does not activate the valves on #1 and #4 to get it to roughly the right position relative to the exhaust cam. How to exactly fine tune it relative to the exhaust I can't tell you as I have never done it. You spoke of slop in the cam alignment cutouts and use of the tool not being very precise but I can't help but believe that if the intake cam was a tooth off that would be very noticable even with the imprecise alignment tool.

[a4lownslow]

Well, if #4 is at TDC so is #1. #2 and #3 are at BDC so there is no chance of valve interference for #2 and #3. So rotate the intake cam in a direction such that it does not activate the valves on #1 and #4 to get it to roughly the right position relative to the exhaust cam. How to exactly fine tune it relative to the exhaust I can't tell you as I have never done it. You spoke of slop in the cam alignment cutouts and use of the tool not being very precise but I can't help but believe that if the intake cam was a tooth off that would be very noticable even with the imprecise alignment tool.

It’s surprisingly not that noticeable if the intake cam is off a tooth, and very easily can be overlooked. The car will start and run fine also, but you will notice a lack in performance and a timing code.

There’s a YouTube video that provides a good example.


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[a4lownslow]

Well it was on the internet so i’m assuming it is true.
If my engine explodes into a million bits i might retract the statement


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Bahaha I wonder if a factory repair manual would reference that as a definitive way to time the intake cam. I know my Bentley manual does not


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[Theiceman]

apparently you can monitor the difference between cam and crank with vcds. he shows it real time as its running. I cant remember what the lag was. He fixes it and you see the readout is almost bang on . The car ran fine but was throwing a code.

check it out !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnZz4LgqoBo&t=1195s

[Brillo]

OK, as I mentioned, I've never done it so that is good to know. Hopefully the info Theiceman found is accurate and will work out correctly. The alignment grooves would just be a second check at that point.

[a4lownslow]

apparently you can monitor the difference between cam and crank with vcds. he shows it real time as its running. I cant remember what the lag was. He fixes it and you see the readout is almost bang on . The car ran fine but was throwing a code.

Yes you can. I don’t remember which measuring block it is, but my current cars adjustment sits at 26.5-27kw actual. Specified is 28kw.

No timing codes or performance issues. I’ve never messed with the timing chain/tensioner on this one, and Its got 180k miles


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[Solarsuplex]

Use this plug in with chrome and it will allow you to see most of the photobucket pictures that were previously lost.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...alioapbifiaedg

Pressure test looks 'good' but you still should do a real compression test when you get things buttoned up.
Sorry i cant provide any real info in terms of how to time the cams. But i do remember that when i was redoing my cams i read that you can still be off 1 tooth or so with the official Audi tool.

I remember watching this video a lot for my issue (which was primary oil pump related) but he goes into the top end stuff a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWbd7y8HLco

[Theiceman]

Use this plug in with chrome and it will allow you to see most of the photobucket pictures that were previously lost.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...alioapbifiaedg

Pressure test looks 'good' but you still should do a real compression test when you get things buttoned up.
Sorry i cant provide any real info in terms of how to time the cams. But i do remember that when i was redoing my cams i read that you can still be off 1 tooth or so with the official Audi tool.

I remember watching this video a lot for my issue (which was primary oil pump related) but he goes into the top end stuff a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWbd7y8HLco

yup that's actually a great set of videos by this guy on all kinds of things. I think he is in Quebec Canada. This is the guy I was referencing above, and he shows the tool fitting yet out one tooth. Very informative video.

[Solarsuplex]

yup that's actually a great set of videos by this guy on all kinds of things. I think he is in Quebec Canada. This is the guy I was referencing above, and he shows the tool fitting yet out one tooth. Very informative video.

Ahaha shit! it would have helped had i clicked the video. Great minds think alike.

[Axis]

yup that's actually a great set of videos by this guy on all kinds of things. I think he is in Quebec Canada. This is the guy I was referencing above, and he shows the tool fitting yet out one tooth. Very informative video.

He’s clearly from Quebec haha

[Theiceman]

Update


Sheared Pin removed from cam adjuster ( 5/32 ) drill bit piece going in with bearing retainer to replace pin. New poly bolt on the way. Set chain with marks for cam alignment. I dont trust the tool

I need the three rings for inside the adjuster as they broke. Oh well

So what are the collective thoughts on me turning it over with no timing cover to do a compression check ?
I would obviously have to pop the fuel pump fuse or disable it as there is no hpfp attached
Thoughts ?

I just want to verify no bent valves before continuing on


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[wjg22]

You could try hitting this guy up for those seals
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ly)-06F198107A

[Theiceman]

wow thank that was fast lol

il check it out ..

[Theiceman]

they are pricey little buggers for sure .. I sent him a message. I will know after the weekend if I am continuing. I am encouraged by all my results so far .

[a4lownslow]

Update


Sheared Pin removed from cam adjuster ( 5/32 ) drill bit piece going in with bearing retainer to replace pin. New poly bolt on the way. Set chain with marks for cam alignment. I dont trust the tool

I need the three rings for inside the adjuster as they broke. Oh well

So what are the collective thoughts on me turning it over with no timing cover to do a compression check ?
I would obviously have to pop the fuel pump fuse or disable it as there is no hpfp attached
Thoughts ?

I just want to verify no bent valves before continuing on


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I know when I hand turned the engine with the timing chain cover off it oozed a good amount of oil from the adjuster, so it might get a bit messy with it cranking using the starter.

Otherwise I don’t see any issue


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[Theiceman]

I know when I hand turned the engine with the timing chain cover off it oozed a good amount of oil from the adjuster, so it might get a bit messy with it cranking using the starter.

Otherwise I don’t see any issue


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Lol thanks. I gotta think it over. Maybe just a couple of screws in the cover. To contain the adjuster.


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[Solarsuplex]

Do you have the head off the vehicle at this point or are you doing all this with it still installed?

[Theiceman]

Head still on. Im crazy that way
Its still in my driveway


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[Theiceman]

update...
with the link method it took me a total of about 10 seconds to set the timing. with absolutely no special tools.

I took my set up as above with the copper link on the cam adjuster. I hooked the white out link on to the intake cam gear tooth with the dot. I then turned the intake cam until the pin in the adjuster dropped into the slot on the exhaust cam .. done !!!

oh I must say my chain snapped so at least I had the exhaust cam still in time .. this made it easier and I just used a wood dowel to approximate TDC. using my dial guage magnetic base was a pain in the ass on an aluminum head.

locked down the cam with a set of vice grips with some denim material around it ( the slot area where the tool goes so the vice grips can grab it. ) . put down more denim between the vicegrips and the head.
tightened my new adjuster bolt to 15lbs plus 1/8 of a turn with a T-55 ground down a little to fit the bolt, held on square.

now some pics ....

my intake cam adjustment tool , I new that piece I cut off to make a stuby 17mm for doing the cam follower would come in handy ..



cam lobe alignment after my link method at TDC



assembly lube on the cam lobes all ready for the cover.




now I have to get the three cam adjuster seals and put a helicoil in a stripped out bolt hole for my vacuum pump , its the ground one so kind of important..

Will update again when its time to do the ultimate test

[Theiceman]

an absolutely great pic which tells you everything you need in one pic.
Its not mine as I pulled it from the net so I don't know who to give credit to .
See the dot on the intake cam tooth and the line on the exhaust tooth ? even shows the cam lobes in perfect alignment
This is all the info you need.
If you don't want to put vice grips on your cam fair enough ( even though you may need to do this anyway or the tool will bend ). If you don't want to grind down a T-55 so it fits the bolt fair enough . But by doing these things I was able to align my cams using this pic.

[mcpcartier]

an absolutely great pic which tells you everything you need in one pic.
Its not mine as I pulled it from the net so I don't know who to give credit to .
See the dot on the intake cam tooth and the line on the exhaust tooth ? even shows the cam lobes in perfect alignment
This is all the info you need.
If you don't want to put vice grips on your cam fair enough ( even though you may need to do this anyway or the tool will bend ). If you don't want to grind down a T-55 so it fits the bolt fair enough . But by doing these things I was able to align my cams using this pic.

I don't understand a couple of things...

1. intake cam - I see the white "1" on the chain....is there a mark on the sprocket tooth (circled in red below)? If so I would have thought the colored tooth on the chain would have been there...yet it looks to be on the bottom side of the sprocket.

2. exhaust cam - In one pic I see a mark on a sprocket tooth....what goes on that. Do you just count the number of links between that tooth back to something on the intake cam

3. Grind down the T-55 - which bolt does a ground down T-55 need to go on?

Like I said.....confused. Maybe another cup of coffee will help.

[Theiceman]

I don't understand a couple of things...

1. intake cam - I see the white "1" on the chain....is there a mark on the sprocket tooth (circled in red below)? If so I would have thought the colored tooth on the chain would have been there...yet it looks to be on the bottom side of the sprocket.

2. exhaust cam - In one pic I see a mark on a sprocket tooth....what goes on that. Do you just count the number of links between that tooth back to something on the intake cam

3. Grind down the T-55 - which bolt does a ground down T-55 need to go on?

Like I said.....confused. Maybe another cup of coffee will help.

1. Yes it is hard to see in the pic but there is a punched dot on the tooth of the cam that is used for reference ( I simulated it with white line on my mock up ) . I will see if I can find a better pic of it .

The coloured link on the chain I just used for reference as it is easier to see , but it really doesn't matter. The guy who originally did that pic didn't care.

2. yes . you count the number of sprocket positions and put it on the location with the dash on the exhaust. ( do a mockup with your chain and adjuster as I did and it will be easy at the car )

3. the bolt that holds on the cam adjuster to the exhaust cam . It goes through the middle of the cam adjuster in my pic and fastens it to the exhaust cam.



this pic is looking from the front side of the engine so you are looking at the exhaust cam adjuster on the left and the intake cam on the right . Do not use the visual positions in the pic as I had to mock up an intake cam , concentrate on the markings and links.

I put the coloured link on the exhaust cam adjuster as you cant see the white line on the sprocket as it is against the engine once installed . so it makes it easier for a visual double check once everything is on.

You should have your lobes aligned like in the pic or close to it before you star . ( remember this is for timing chain only , if you have the timing belt off you have to deal with that timing too. )
( plus my timing belt was still on so I just set it at tdc from the timing mark on the belt, then I new the exhaust cam was perfect, just set the intake to match )

once aligned like in the pic you take your cam adjuster and chain with coloured link on mark and you hook the chain on the intake cam aligning your white out mark on the chain with the dot on the intake cam sprocket ( at tdc it is easy to see with a small mirror ) .

Then you hold your cam adjuster against the exhaust cam and turn the intake cam as desired, rotating the cam adjuster on the chain so the pin on the adjuster drops into the cam .

I did my mock up and had my chain marked. had my lobes lined up at " best guess" from the pic. did as above , turned the intake cam maybe 1 or 2 degrees and it popped in , all told 10 seconds.

You are done !!!

bolt it on with a new cam adjuster bolt ( as they are torque to yield )

I did my double checks and full rotational checks by hand before tightening to final torque


edit : intake cam reference mark

[Theiceman]

update
I bought a timing cover from a wreckers for for 40 bucks . I thought what a steal as one of my vacuum pump bolt holes was stripped out and I was puking oil out of the cam adjuster solenoid. it had one intact ring and 2 broken rings. I had one intact so I thought perfect.

But I of course broke one of the ones in the wreckers housing !!! grrrr,,,,,,

oh well , still worth 40 bucks and I can probably resell mine for that as a core

so now still waiting for rings.

Once I get that on I will button it up and see if I actually bent any valves.

This all could be for nothing but I must admit it has been kind of fun ..

will update soon

[Theiceman]

Well hopefully last update for a while. Put all the pieces back in. Decided to start her up and after a brutal fuel leak i shut her down.
It was a fuel line the place i had diagnose it left loose by accident.
I had to take off the pcv line as it was soaked in gas.
When it turned over though there was no metal clanking. I did not have the coil packs on as i just wanted to build oil pressure.
I decided to charge the battery and let the gas evaporate.

Came back three hours later and just decided to go for it. Put in the coil packs and fired it up.
It ran horribly missing like crazy and a horrible screech !! How could i have miscalculated so badly. My troubleshooting was solid. I shut it down dejected after 5 minutes . Then noticed the pcv line sitting on the cowl. Oops.

Hooked it up, fired it up and it ran as smooth as silk. Shut it down. Changed the oil and started it again.
I have never heard the car run so quietly. No sound from the timing cover at all.
So far so good i guess
Now the rundown in CAD

170 diagnostic fee by independent
300 new tensioner , chain, timing cover gasket
40 used timing cover ( mine had stripped vacuum pump bolt holes )
20 machinest charge to drill out pin from cam adjuster
75 rings for timing cover.
5 new cam adjuster bolt

So about 610 to repair a broken cam chain and tensioner and get my son back on the road. Not too bad i think considering i thought my car was toast 3 weeks ago. I am just thankful he shut it down immediately and is still driving.

https://youtu.be/Ok7Vo3UX3uk

Although i would never consider this any type of diy I would say my method for timing the cams is sound ! and i have shown it can be done without specialized tools :)

all the best boys !!!



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[canadianA4B7]

Solid work!! Good to hear this was a success!!

[GTA_G20]

Well done!!

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[mcpcartier]

congrats...solid work....

[Theiceman]

Thanks guys , and for those who contributed along the way my thanks also. I hope some of this thread helps others down the road think out of the box when working on their car or even offers some guidance as to how to go about this project.

cheers

[Theiceman]

well that was short lived .. car ran great for half an hour, my son just called and said its dead on the road ....

:(

[A4B7Avant]

Damn!

well that was short lived .. car ran great for half an hour, my son just called and said its dead on the road ....

:(

[canadianA4B7]

Le crap.

[Solarsuplex]

Well that was a roller coaster of emotion. The son seems to be the common denominator here.

[Theiceman]

I thought the audi was . Further updates on p0322 thread


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[bouter75]

Update :
Took the parts out of the box i got back .


Tensioner completely destroyed and pin broken off adjuster.

Next step is to check compression.




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im not sure how than pin on the adjuster works however and need to understand why it sheared. I see a spot in the timing cover it is supposed to fit into, but don't understand the system beyond that

Sorry to hear about your luck. I was reading through the thread and came across this pic. Ironically, the same part failed in on my son's A4, which has roughly the same mileage as your son's car and failed around the same time as your son's car. When it failed, it tore everything a part in the back. Snapped the chain, tore the sprocket off the intake cam, bent valves, etc. We actually need to replace the head since the failure damaged the cover plate on the back of the head, and Audi doesn't sell that part separately from the head. I don't have final total, but the bill is setting out almost $3600. Our only saving grace is a life-time engine warranty that the dealership offered when we bought the car. I'm still holding my breath, but after going over the work needed over the past couple of weeks, it sound like most of the bill will be covered.

Like your son, he needed a car to get around. While his is getting fixed, I gave up my S4 to save him the embarrassment of driving to high school in his mom's girled-out Beetle. I'm hoping he'll remember the sacrifices I made when he's picking my retirement home.